|
On December 05 2012 10:28 jidolboy wrote:At the time of the opening post, I did not know what would happen so I just said I would not lynch anyone without very much thought. However after reading some of the post, I realized that I was wrong. You can see I changed my mind quickly as seen here Show nested quote +
Um. I meant day 1 as whole 48hour daytime. For lynching part: I honestly don't know because some people might be an obvious scum and post wrecklessly or try to blend in. So it depends on the situation
so YES. I would lynch a lurker on Day 1
What do you mean you "did not know what would happen"? You said it's your first game on TL, is it your first game ever? Or just here?
|
On December 05 2012 10:44 AxleGreaser wrote:
Guys you can flap around me all you like.
Save your energy.
The only evidence I will consider is the evidence I found before I indicated,
I had any idea what the solution was.
What are you referring to here? O.o
|
@jidolboy
Ahh, gotcha. Would you mind sharing your scum read? Both you and Sylencia have now mentioned that you have a scum read of some sort, and both of you seem to feel the need to hide it. Any reason you're holding back?
|
On December 05 2012 11:31 AxleGreaser wrote:An so the case begins. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 21:43 AxleGreaser wrote:
This post contains content on its own so that does not get lost in the last one.
The last post drew a conclusion from a ridiculous small amount of data.
That is not all the data it is based on just all that was quoted.
A lesson I learned along time ago when dealing with potential liars is never show all your cards to them.
The majority of people here are town. I, state that, I think my optimal play is to show a large fraction of what I know.
[........]
Finally, hence Importantly
I do not reach final conclusions no matter what the English implies.
Great case Axle /clap
Fully support it.
|
@jidolboy
PMing NOT allowed jidol, don't do it ^^
|
EBWOP: (wanted to post that quick so you didn't PM)
@jidolboy
Anyway, I think it's good to get reads out and let people discuss. That way we know what you're thinking, perhaps it helps further our own thoughts, and we get better reads on you because you're being open.
If it's not a super strong read, treat it as such, but be open about it.
|
@kickstart
Why are you being such a dick constantly? If someone has a scum read on you, and you're town, don't get so offended. We're all trying to find scum, and not all of us have amazing reads. I get that you wanted to keep your meta identical to last game, but shit, is that really how you want to play this out?
|
On December 05 2012 11:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Pretty suspect of Arn right now because he sheeped that Kick wagon so hard with a bunch of WIFOM and wall of text. Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 11:43 Kickstart wrote:
And I am just going to ignore arnarion all together because he is being a dickhead and because his case is stupid. I doubt anyone who reads his case then looks over my actual post will agree with a word he said. I lol'd so hard. <3 Kickstart. Hey Rad, waddaya make of all this?
@CC
I thought your case was half good. I'm kinda curious about the flip on yamato (not sure if I believe his explanation or not), and the idea of thinking of everyone as town and searching for scum is sooo... I dunno, "dreamy"? Like, really? He does that? I agree with you in that I'm paranoid as fuck as town and everyone is scum to me (though I feel I'm getting a bit better at my reads TBH).
Claiming he's town - eh, everyone does that. Null.
On his Kickstart case - ehh, I took it as a pressure move, and I wanted to see more out of kickstart anyway so I thought it was a good move. I've seen debears throw out terrible cases (for example, against me in my first newbie) that got me to talk a lot.
I'll be honest, oats feels unreadable from a meta standpoint. I watched him last game, thought he was scum until people told me otherwise. Feels very similar this game. I have to decide what I think about that "slip" you caught cause it's the major non-meta point that just doesn't make sense to me.
Regarding everything else that's going on, need to read through arn's case, and can't wait for axle to make sense because I honestly believe he's newbie town that will probably have some mind blowing read if he can tell us in english.
|
omg amazing post axle, dying here.
What makes you think there's a possibility of no scum? (I actually had this thought in the chrono game, but it's heavily themed). This game has the following setup possibilities:
Goon + Roleblocker, Doctor + Cop, five Townies
2 Goons, Cop, Named VT + five Townies
2 Goons, Doctor, Named VT + five Townies
Goon + Roleblocker, two Named VT + five Townies
As you can see, there's no setup possibility of 9 townies.
Do you think maybe your reads might just be a little bit off (by 2 people)? Maybe you could spend your time on figuring out who's scum (since there are exactly 2 of them) as opposed to making the most confusing posts I've ever seen 
|
On December 05 2012 13:50 Kickstart wrote:
##AxleGreaser
Because dumb.
On December 05 2012 13:51 Kickstart wrote:
ebwop: woops
##Vote: AxleGreaser
I'm curious, kick. Do you want to vote for people you think are scum, or people you think are dumb? (oh wait, we just found out the answer to that)
##Vote: Kickstart
|
Kickstart, the try-hard scum
Last game didn't work out so well for him. He was scum, got caught, and lost the game. For any of you who followed this, perhaps you'll remember a bit about how it was played out. He was an ass, and he has claimed (before this game) that this would continue to be his meta. I see some of you are fooled by it, but all you have to do is read his previous game and note that the differences aren't all that drastic.
Scum doesn't care who dies, as long as it's town
From NMM XXXI:
On November 29 2012 13:31 Kickstart wrote:
Don't think this really needs too much justification but I will give a bit anyways. Bad play since beginning, suspicious and scummy. After numerous requests to shape up from many people he is still unable to and is still sheeping his vote around while making no real cases on anyone (I am sorry but some crap case that you yourself are the first to dismiss shortly after you make it don't count).
You have had ample opportunity to change my mind by scum hunting and posting a decent case on anyone. Since you refuse to do so and your most recent posts are just more evidence that you refuse to do so I am putting my vote on you. You still have time to scum hunt and start playing the game - I suggest you do so.
##vote: Oatsmaster
Here he votes oats not because he feels oats is scum (everyone can use the word "scummy"), but because oats isn't being productive town. NOT a reason to vote town.
This is of course the prelude to today's WTF moment of:
On December 05 2012 13:50 Kickstart wrote:
##AxleGreaser
Because dumb.
"So Rad, if kick did this shit last game, why would he do it this game?"
Let me point you to promo's huge post giving him and helo some suggestions:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=83#1660
Some interesting things to note (that I think are noticably different from his last game and this game):
1. "You needed to make your reads and stick to them. Scum often want to sit back and allow town to make cases for them, you needed to make your cases stronger and to push them instead of being wishy washy."
As scum, he needs to change his meta to be more in your face and consistent. He's doing exactly this. Last game, he'd just talk shit, but wouldn't follow through with it. This game, he's adapted.
2. "Always take the chance, as scum, to attack the townie doing something so dumb that you can't understand it."
I don't know how this suggestion could be more literal than kick, literally, calling Axle dumb and voting him. Were you LOLing when you made that vote kick, thinking no one would fucking get it?
"Ok ok, Rad, enough of the meta shit, is that all you got?"
Of course not. Wtf.
Take the easy prey, and stick to it
I tend to jump on "shit ideas" quickly. This is how I play. You can read my last 2 games (NMMXXIX and NMMXXX) and see that's what I do. I did it vs scum debears in the first game, and vs town debears in the second game, and many more times throughout those games.
I did it here too, to kick's shit idea, and proceeded to question him about it.
On December 04 2012 11:11 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:06 Kickstart wrote:
O yeah that reminds me, I am down for lynching Oats due to his play last game. Anyone else? You're down for lynching strictly based on his play from last game (where he was town) rather than scum hunting and lynching your biggest scum read? What exactly do you expect to get from this?
On December 04 2012 11:12 Kickstart wrote:
@ Rad
That my friend is what we call a joke, hence that post directly under it that says "jkjk"
Yeah, I missed the jkjk. TT. I apologized and moved on.
As soon as kick notices the weakness though (which is after he posts the above), he realizes he has an opportunity to pounce:
On December 04 2012 11:18 Kickstart wrote:
@Rad
So if I was actually serious about what I had said what would you have done?
Fine, confusing question, but I respond:
On December 04 2012 11:21 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:18 Kickstart wrote:
@Rad
So if I was actually serious about what I had said what would you have done? I'd have awaited your answer and asked you more questions or dropped it depending on if I thought I had a scum read on it?
Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Now CC jumps in with a good, smart question:
On December 04 2012 11:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:16 Rad wrote:
@kick sorry missed the jkjk =/ I'm quick to jump on shit ideas ^^ What did Kick's "shit idea" tell you in terms of alignment? If Kick truly believed he wanted to lynch Oats for behavior last game, is that scum motivated?
I reply to CC, and kick jumps in:
On December 04 2012 11:32 Kickstart wrote:
What cheese just asked is what I was getting at Rad, I was being a bit more subtle but you just kind of brushed it away after I questioned you about it. I wanted to see if what I had said would have made you try and push me as a scum read.
OK kick, sure buddy, you saw that cheese had a smarter question than you and decided to attempt to sheep it, all the while pushing suspicion on me (I "brushed it away"? wtf no I answered your question) and suggesting it was a **SCUM TRAP!!!***
And where does this go? Kick literally throws out a "HUGE post" about yamato and me, with the only point being about my mistaken questioning of his joke (which he, again, takes the opportunity to point out that "oh bummer I should have caught him in my scumtrap because he's obviously scum".)
On December 04 2012 15:59 Kickstart wrote:
/snip
Unfortunately I immediately revealed that I was joking and then the whole thing was dropped, otherwise I could have maybe pressed it a bit and gotten more of a reaction from him, but again I view his initial reaction as slightly scummy.
He then proceeds to whine about no one reading his post, and how everyone's stupid because of it (read after his "HUGE post" about me and yamato), attempting to give himself more town credit (also note that I responded to his post before he started whining, and he did not persue me further - satisfied with my answer or scum too lazy to push the issue?).
To summarize:
1. Has fooled many by acting like a more vocal "can't possibly be scum" asshole rather than a "pick your targets carefully" asshole.
2. Clearly sheep's CC's reasoning and attempts to push suspicion onto me after the fact, as if it were his plan all along.
3. Tried to increase the importance of his "HUGE post" by calling people out for "not reading it" and basically saying "acknowledge me or I will ignore you."
4. Failed the ultimate test of voting for the correct (townie) reason: town does not vote for "dumb" as he put it, town votes for scum. Then plays it off as "scum trap" when I call him out on it and OMGUS votes me.
I am now exhausted and going to bed. I will read and respond to replies to this when I get a chance tomorrow, but again, I'll be working and only have limited availability until I'm done (should be around the same time as today, but will try to push for getting done earlier since lynch is tomorrow).
|
On December 06 2012 04:38 Kickstart wrote:
Also @Rad
You voted on me for putting a vote on Axle but what have you neglected to mention anything about Yamato's vote on him? Too focused on your wagon to notice?
@kick
Notice how different the intentions are:
"Because dumb" vs "scum, or not playing to win". Yamato is suggesting a policy lynch. You're suggesting an easy target.
I'm surprised you didn't also point out Sylencia's' statement:
On December 05 2012 19:03 Sylencia wrote:
/snip
Basically, if I had no better read, I'd be picking Axle simply because I don't want to have to deal with working with an incomprehensible teammate.
/snip
Also suggesting a policy lynch. You didn't notice this one though did you, because you don't actually care what Sylencia has to say about anything. Not following the thread as closely as you'd want us to believe, are you? Or were you just satisfied with his vote on Oats that you didn't want him to question himself?
|
@kick
Can you explain why you voted him, with explanation "Because dumb"? It wasn't a pressure move - he had been talking like that the entire game, and in the last NMM QT. That's how he talks. What do you want him to do about it?
So if not a pressure move, and not a serious vote, then what?
For funzies? To stir shit up? I don't get it.
|
@CC
Why are you so convinced in kick being town? Like, you got a town read from him really early on and have stuck with it. Care to share some insight?
|
@kick
That's how he talks. Check last NMM's QT. I didn't understand wtf he was talking about from the start there and had to get him to clarify himself. I had to read his 1 sentence per line post over and over to figure it out. What you're saying is you don't give a shit if he's town or scum, and that you will lynch him regardless.
I get the idea of a policy lynch on him, but 2 things. 1. you're going to have to policy lynch him every game you play in with him, because that's just how he talks. Perhaps you could just attempt to understand instead. 2. he's so damn obviously newbie townie (or amazing scum, no way though) that you're better off ignoring him rather than lynching him.
What's your honest read on Axle, kick? Town or scum?
|
k off work
named VT claim eh?
interesting, what to do now guys?
jidolboy, sylencia, you guys out there in lurker land? Want to say hi?
|
lol, my reads are so bad TT
Very well kick, I can't see how you'd have possibly bus'd oats the entire game.
I can assure you that I'm town though
|
kick, I get that you think I'm scum, and this flip doesn't help me AT ALL.
However, please keep in mind that you could be confirmation biased against me. I was worried if I was confirmation biased against you, but you were still scummy as fuck, so I stuck with my vote.
With that said, I would suggest you spend the next 72 hours scum hunting someone else, rather than tunneling me to death. Go ahead, vote me end of d2, but expect a town flip. I don't want to see town lose because you convinced everyone that they got the game won and no one did shit for 3 days.
|
@kick
You pissed me off with the joke thing (didn't just let it slide, asked question, I answered it fine, then you seemed to sheep CC's better question, keeping suspicion on me even after I had answered BOTH of your questions sufficiently). I've considered you scum since that moment. Pretty sure this was before anyone else was thinking it, or at least before anyone else had mentioned it. So no, I didn't jump on a bandwagon, I jumped on my biggest scum read when he did something that I thought was unforgivably scummy.
Anyway, sorry, had muh blinders up ^^ Coincidentally, I had them up for oats too, because my reads are shit, and he was seeming really useful to town (IMO).
|
@Axle
Your previous vote was on Kick. Do you consider him confirmed town after the oats flip? When can we expect you to reveal your master plan?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
