Chrono Trigger Mafia

On November 21 2012 11:19 Hapahauli wrote:


So you want to form a party of people you and three "obviously town but inexperienced" players you are free to manipulate? Thanks but no thanks.

On November 21 2012 11:24 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Sandro

Well to elaborate on that sandro, I don't find it to be a good idea to have a vet + 3 less-experienced players on the same team. The vet will have a lot of persuasive authority over the rest of the team and it probably won't be a very effective way to think through these mini-games. Unless the vet was super-obvious-town or something, I'm wary of such a party setup

On November 21 2012 11:32 Z-BosoN wrote:


Basically we should just trust your own abilities to sense if someone is town and be happy?

On November 21 2012 11:34 Hapahauli wrote:


Well the problem is that it requires the town to place a great deal of trust in you. I'm not sure of how distinguishable your meta is, but I'm very hesitant of placing so much trust//power in a person so early in the game.



I really don't understand this at all. Do the mini-games "confirm" people as town or something? Otherwise, I really don't get this at all.

On November 21 2012 11:33 marvellosity wrote:


Unless I missed something setup-wise, I'm not getting your linking who gets shot and who is in the party together. If for instance syllogism is town, what difference does it make whether he is in a party or not? Doesn't he just get shot anyway?

How does people being in a party, mission successful or otherwise, 'confirm' anything?

On November 21 2012 12:02 Clarity_nl wrote:


So you're saying that you deduced that scum will know hp by flavor claims, or anything for that matter? Please explain to us idiots.

On November 21 2012 12:37 TheChronicler wrote:


You have confident reads this early? I'm taking the decision given to one person and spreading it to four. Leader can say who he's picking and give his reasons why (if he wants to), and then the three chosen can choose who they want on the team and give their reasons why (if they want to)

That gives us four times the information. How is this bad? Because you have to put more effort into the game and keep track of what people are doing?

On November 21 2012 15:59 syllogism wrote:
Sandro who do you think is [most likely to be] town so far?

On November 21 2012 17:01 syllogism wrote:
All this talk about treating this game like Resistance is misguided or malicious, at least if the implication is that the game is only about looking for townies. Resistance is a game with no roles, transparent mechanics, no flips, clear goal and every day you gain information that isn't particularly subject to manipulation. In this game there is some sort of mafia NK mechanic, hitpoint mechanic, likely a lot of roles and town can even win by eliminating all the mafia. This suggests that there is a lot of KP in the game and it is not limited to just mafia. Moreover, I think the more mafia are left alive when Lavos is summoned, the harder it is for town to win.

The point being, there is little reason for us not to also be looking for mafia in the thread. Mafia have relatively easy time blending in if all they have to do is pretend to be looking for townies or even worse every single day just look for the best party leader. Identifying likely mafia will also give our blues something to work on.

So, while it's fine that we early on discuss about who is likely to be town or who would be the good leader, this shouldn't last and the game should be played quite like a normal mafia game. Town hunting can be mostly restricted to your spreadsheets unless you are trying to convince the likely party leader to include someone on the team.

On November 21 2012 17:04 Keirathi wrote:

Damnit, I was in bed and checked the thread once more from my phone and had to get up to come back and reply to this because of how vehemently I disagree.

First:


Notice that it says MOST OF THE TIME there won't be a lynch, implying that there will be a traditional lynch at some point (presumably on non-event days).

Also:



Notice the "If all mafia die." How exactly are mafia ever going to die in this game if all we do is townhunt the whole game? I'm going to guess they aren't going to get punished for being selected into the party (and actually, probably rewarded), so they won't be dying from that. So, that only really leaves 1) lynch whenever that's what we do for the day 2) town vigs shooting the scum and 3) third party having some sort of KP

Both 1 and 2 require scumhunting. Also, scumhunting narrows down possible town reads.

Basically I 100% disagree with you that the only thing we should be doing is townhunting.

On November 21 2012 17:15 syllogism wrote:

Really? What do you expect to learn about game mechanics after day 1 and how do you think will that impact our play? While mafia has easier time bussing their team mates in this format, they still do not want town to start treating some of their players are likely mafia. If there we allow players to just look for townies and all the discussion revolves around that, it is going to be more difficult to identify mafia, which can also make it more difficult to identify townies, at least for a lot of players. Lynch mechanic or not, mafia still has to fake their mafia reads or bus and they would rather not do either. Discussions relating as to who people think are mafia produce a lot more useful information.

On November 21 2012 17:33 syllogism wrote:
But getting a team together is not a collective effort; players only have to identify one likely townie who is also likely capable of identifying 3 additional ones. If I was a party leader, I wouldn't pay much attention to who most people think are town. As such I suppose it can be argued the possible party leaders should devote more time on town hunting, but everyone else should mostly just justify their party leader vote and spend the rest of their efforts on finding mafia.

Do you agree that it's easier to get reads if people post and explain their mafia reads than if they only talk about who they find to likely be town?

On November 21 2012 18:13 Keirathi wrote:
Syllogism/sandroba:

You guys have ignored us, but what do you think of Toads reasoning for me being scum? Do you think I'm scum?

What about Deinos 2 scum reads and 2 town reads? Agree or disagree with any of them?

On November 21 2012 22:19 syllogism wrote:

This is a really pointless and irrelevant topic, but it would serve you well to stop using the term WIFOM and if you are town you should not attempt to downplay things that a person of one alignment is clearly more likely to do. That is all that mafia is, determining what is more likely. You can reduce anything to a level where you can claim it's "wifom" when in fact it is evidence of someone's alignment. WIFOM is a meaningless term used by lazy players, people who do not understand mafia or mafia aligned players who want to wave away evidence of someone being town.

On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:


what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion?

On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote:


I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader.

As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?

On November 22 2012 02:22 Promethelax wrote:
You know catching up with this thread is a million times worse than I was hoping, remember how I said that I was toning down the amount which I am posting? Could you all do me a favour and consolidate too. Thanks.

After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads.

## Vote: Acro

Come on boys, lets do this right and make Sand have to fight for his nomination.

I'll be out again for a few hours. See ya'll soon.

On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:


I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question.

Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that.

On November 22 2012 04:05 syllogism wrote:
Sandroba: when you are back, I would like to know if you have reconsidered Dienosore at all based on new content, in addition to explaining what about clarity_nl's play you find suspect. Some kind of mafia reads would also be helpful. Also any thoughts regarding the current candidate situation?

On November 22 2012 05:59 Acrofales wrote:


You are wanting me to quote the absense of useful posts by you? How am I supposed to do that? If you want examples of you yelling at the top of your lungs that you're town, here's a brief compilation:
[spoiler="IAMTOWN!!!1111"]

Not only am I town, but everybody can see that I'm town from my meta!!! Not seeing it yet...


Call me town, pretty please?


Dude, I'm town AND awesome!


I am town and I can write it in BIG BLACK BOLD LETTERS!!!111

Please Marv, please call me town?

Given that the rest of your filter is almost all meaningless banter, I fail to see how anybody could get a town read from this if your normal town meta is to be constructive. So don't you "ask anybody in the thread" on me as if you are confirmed town. You're not, shape up and stop looking scummy.

On November 22 2012 08:57 Acrofales wrote:


Ok. This roleclaim was stupid. Which part of "don't roleclaim" did you not get when I said that.

I don't believe scum would claim Frog... and I find this play far too ballsy for a noob 3rd party, making this guy an actual town Frog.

Sandro, Syllo, Toad: would you take this guy along on a quest?

On November 22 2012 09:49 Hapahauli wrote:


Is there a reason you consider him so townie? I'm thinking of voting you or him myself, so any reasoning you could provide would help.

On November 22 2012 10:43 Oatsmaster wrote:
WIFOM? what is the difference between that and WIFOM?

On November 22 2012 10:44 Z-BosoN wrote:


Are you referring to anything especific?

Also, after a skim through some pages I realized you had a town read on GK, do to your skype chats and shit. Can you be more specific on what is it exactly that he said that made you think him town? From GK's filter, I'm leaning pretty null...

On November 22 2012 10:44 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Sandro


Hm ok, I'll look through some of syllo's stuff and see if I agree.

Also, thoughts on my thoughts on Toad?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=52#1024

@ Kita
As much as I enjoy flag-waving turkey's, running a joke campaign doesn't help town here. Do you actually believe Sandro/Syllo/etc aren't good candidates?

On November 22 2012 17:34 syllogism wrote:
It's more likely than not real and he seems kind of towny, but in a crazy way that has often posed me problems. As you know, I'm convinced that at least some of the main characters either aren't in the game (and mafia knows this so they are safe claims) or some of them are simply mafia.

I'll be back in maybe 6 hours

On November 24 2012 12:07 Hapahauli wrote:


Oh come on... you're straight up OMGUS Clarity? I mean the guy is a relatively new player and has an 11 page filter...

On November 24 2012 19:44 Acrofales wrote:
Okay. You want vibe? I got vibe.

Sandro: your last two posts sound like you are wallowing in self-pity and acting like a kicked dog. That does not sound like the self-assured town Sandro who tells people that they are wrong, bad or useless if they disagree. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but my doubt is getting very large.

On November 24 2012 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
The thing I have about this claim by Sandro.
It is an easy claim as scum to make because,
1. He got roleblocked so obviously it didnt go through.
2. Since he is familiar with the lore, its not difficult to make up a skill.
3. Syllo is the best target to put protective skills so it seems believable.
4. This claim is really late, why didnt he say it in his opening post where he lists the damage taken and the roleblock and waiting until now, where there isnt a lot of activity?

On November 24 2012 20:34 Acrofales wrote:
@Sandroba: a lot of the case against you is inspired by the idea that scum must have had someone in the running for party leader yesterday. Do you agree with this? And if it's not you, then who was it?