|
On November 26 2012 18:12 JacobStrangelove wrote:
yeah oats while his initial style was very townlike in my opinion has also been quite inconsistent tunnling as well like sonic mentioned however I think his style (and this is only a feel read) is more town like though.
Aside from sparking decision early nothing he's done is very pro-town. Of course we want every townie to be pro-town, but I don't think it's very allignment indicative. There are some things I've pointed out that can be seen as scum mentality, but in the end I don't even manage to convince myself he's scum (I'm usually quite good at convincing myself as long as I try hard :p). I have the same feeling as you. It's hard to put to words, but I guess the best description still is to obviously scummy to be scum. This goes back to the same old argument: Scum primary objective is to try not to look like scum. I have a hard time believing that's Oats' primary objective.
As far as the Kick case goes it's quite reasonable:
- He's only going after Oats, which is an obvious and easy target.
- He's defending CC pretty hard, aka white knighting (assuming CC is town).
Kick is rather cautious. I'd say his style of writing is rather formal and for the lack of a better word, cold (not a lot of excitement). I expect from newbie scum. I'm sure CC can relate to this from his first scum game. It was true for me in my first scum game (and to a lesser extent also my second). It was true to Xatalos in my first scum game. Debears in his first scum game. To make my point short, it's often the case. This has given me a slight suspicion towards Kick, but I've really not thought it was worth acting on such a suspicion, because he's been active and "making sense" (unfortunately I have a tendency to think people "making sense" are townies, but like I've explain before it seems townies are more often logically incoherrent while scum will be more focused on appearing to "make sense").
I think Kick is worth considering. Aqua has moved himself off my list having made a good case with some thinking that runs a deeper than this-dude-looks-scummy-on-the-surface case. Munk and Yamato are still up there, but for my wishy-washy reasonings I expressed earlier I'm kind of doubting a vote on Yamato.
I will have to go back and look at why I thought Kick was townie to begin with. It's probably mostly because he was the first to make some sort of case. The genuine feel I got from our discussion about Oats was because it seemed to me like he genuinely didn't realize why it was a bad case. After all, it's pretty common for newbies not to look for motivation and rather just look for weird/bad behaviour.
|
|
|
Skimming through Kick's filter I honestly don't find a lot of substance to bring to the case that hasn't been brought up. I urge others to read through his filter while asking yourself the questions: Is this guy being deliberately cautious? Is he trying to cruise by without getting noticed? Is he really trying to find scum or is he just picking on an easy target? Does it seem like he knows the allignment of CC? On first glance I don't necessarily think those questions have clear cut answers.
There are a few of his comments and actions that struck me as weird. For example he seemed to sheep me pretty hard on Yamato. This happened at the same time I made my case on CC. I found it a bit weird he focused on my smaller side-not of Yamato while I was siding with his biggest scum read making a big case on CC. His last comment also kind of strikes me as a I-think-this-is-the-way-town-thinks type post, but I'm afraid that's me starting to suffer from confirmation bias.
On November 26 2012 10:33 Kickstart wrote:
Right well I am going to go to sleep so won't be on for several hours, I am glad to see that there has been a decent amount of new discussion and hope to find more when I wake up and I will weigh in on everything then and try and find them scum after some well needed rest.
About Jacob's note on Kick's meta. It may or may not be an important point. I remember in XXVIII Djo was newbie town and defended other newbie towns, just to in his next newbie game make a case against a newbie town because of his newbie town traits. I thought that was scummy as hell, but he turned out town.
I really need to start study now 
|
On November 26 2012 18:56 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 16:57 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Oats, do you have any other scum reads? In a game where 90% of the players look like scum I'm having a hard time seeing a townie so convinced of a target at this point.
I'm also legitimately concerned about Jacob and Aqua. They really seem to not want to take a stance on anything. Jacob seems really wishy-washy and not very interested in finding a lynch candidate. He's showing no sense of urgency at all and quite satisfied with the current state of the game, which I would expect scum to be right now because we're really heading nowhere and activity is low.
I'm soon heading off to school and I would've liked to be able to narrow down my potential list of lynch candidates, but there are probably 5 players I'd consider now. I don't think I saw anything from you about Jacob after this post. Do you still feel this way about Jacob?
I posted this shortly after: "I'm quite undecided about Jacob, I need time to solve that riddle."
Me and Jacob played XXVI together where he was town and I was scum. My recollection of that game is not 100%, but as far as I can remember he was kind of wishy-washy and used a lot of circle arguments which ended up with indecisive reads. So him not taking decisive stands here doesn't have to be scummy. He did show a lot of effort in trying to solve the game though, which I think he is lacking in this game. That seems to be a bit uncharacterstic and as the same time quite common for scum.
We also played in XXVII where he was scum and I townie. They killed me off N1 so I don't have too much information. I did get the feeling he was kind of buddying me in that game though, or at least concerned about me not suspecting him. I'm getting a similar feeling here, but it's a really weak argument.
Jacob usually puts in a lot of effort though so I don't really want to see him lynched D1 for those weak reasons. If he's town he'll be a late game asset, if he's scum at least he's likely to post a lot and we'll get a better read.
I think his activity will pick up and especially in late game. I think he'll be really excited to solve the game if he's town. As scum it's really hard to be very active late game and if he's not very active I'd become really concerned. Keep this in mind if I'm not around, him being active doesn't necessarily mean he's town, but if he isn't excited about solving the game and posting a lot I'd be vary.
|
About the "riddle" part, as town in XXVI he made a lot of long ass posts that was really hard to decipher. I think same was true as scum in XXVII.
|
On November 26 2012 21:40 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Kickstarter case looks good tbh. I am a little funny about the helo yamoto thing due to having an insane probably wrong read on one of them. I really want these guys particularly to enter the thread. I can't do much more without it.
Will look into it more before bed. On a side note how much time left before lynch?
What "helo yamoto" thing and what is this "insane probably wrong" read of yours?
|
On November 26 2012 21:22 Aquanim wrote:
- Comparing Yamato77 to HeloKnight (two players who have similar profiles, I think) I see more purpose in Yamato's posts. To clarify, my feeling is that Yamato is giving more thought into how his posts can uncover scum. Compare their filters, YMMV.
Yeah, I'm also a bit suprised about this purpose you see in Yamato's posts. So far the only purpose I've seen is to stay alive. That's both a town and scum trait. However he's lacking the exclusive town trait, to hunt scum.
Helo on the other hand has shown some scum hunting and comes off as genuine imo. Saying something like: "Part of the reason I asked that question is because everyone was getting on me to contribute more, but I wasn't finding a lot to comment on" is good sign of honesty. It's also the feeling which goes through most newbies early game, they find it hard to contribute.
|
Right now there seems to be 3 competing cases.
Kick
- He's defending CC for no reason. I agree defending people is kind of scummy because as scum it's easier to town reads instead of scum read on townies, because you know they're correct. Kick isn't really making a town read, he's just saying the case isn't convincing. And the case wasn't convincing. Can you really blame him? It's more of an attack on Oats than a defense of CC.
- His scum hunting is only limited to Oats. Oats is an easy target and the case is bad, at least according to me and as it seems a lot of others. Oats would be the perfect target for newbie scum to jump on, but on the other hand, why wouldn't newbie town do that as well?
- There are some more abstract feelings I've had pointing in the direction of scum. I've tried to cover this in my earlier posts but not done a great job at it. Maybe that's because that feeling is baseless. I do feel like scum usually hide behind his style of posting though.
Yamato
- Not contributing, just a bunch of one-liners.
- Non-existant scum hunting, jumps the CC wagon for no good reason (they might've been good reasons in his mind but they are not allignment indicative imo).
- Focusing on defending himself rather than making cases. More concerned about what people think about him rather than voicing his own opinions.
Munk-E
- A grand total of 2 posts.
- Makes a quite unconvincing case against easy target Oats.
- Essentially provides the bare minimum to look like he's scum hunting and doesn't engage in any discussions.
I'm quite disappointed with my own contributions so far and I don't see a clear #1 candidate. I'm quite suprised at how convinced Aqua is about Kick. It's as if he's getting coached and Debears is giving him that confidence speech. Or he's suffering from confirmation bias. Or he's scum. I'm leaning towards not scum for now though.
I'll shut the fuck up for a while and try to collect my thoughts. My crazy ramblings are just clogging up the thread.
|
On November 26 2012 23:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Have a few minutes between my class and was looking through some filters. Obviously, Munk-E only has two posts so far. The first has a sarcastic rant that dubs me scum. He also doesn't want to lynch lurkers. His second post is a long quote-focused exodus against Oats that at the end says that he's unsure about his vote.
Why do you read his first post as scummy?
|
Yamato's town and scum reads are safe as hell. Somehow I still read his posts since I voted on him as genuine, pushing me slightly more towards Kick and Munk instead.
Both of you guys, pls start giving your opinnions.
|
On November 26 2012 23:34 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I didn't say it was scummy, I said that he made a joke about me being scum for my third question. Think you misread that. Mainly confused about why he would do that in the middle of d1 when there was better stuff to talk about.
Oh I did.
|
I'll put my vote on Munk-E for now, but I'm far from decided yet. In a close decision I tend to favor lynching the complete lurker though.
##vote: Munk-E
@Cheesecake
Has you opinion of Yamato changed since he started defending himself? What's your position on Helo now?
@Aqua
I expressed why I wasn't entirely convinced about your Kick case here. If you're convinced he's scum, can you explain why you don't share those concerns?
|
On November 27 2012 00:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cheesecake, I want to make it clear now.
I dont think you are scum because of the joke.
I think you are scum because the joke answer sounded so forced that it was beaten out of you. among other stuff.
Can you quote this post and explain what about it is scummy? I'm curious what in partivular the "joke answer".
|
Voting on Munk-E feels like such a cop out. Like admitting I can't find scum with the information given. Munk-E, now is the time to show up.
|
On November 27 2012 01:00 Kickstart wrote:
It seems like I am going to have to consolidate my vote eventually (I won't actually be here AT lynch time because I have class, have to leave a few hours before time) because it seems no one is convinced that Oats is scummy. I will probably have to vote for Munk-E based on the lurker factor and that at least other people have posted, while Munk-E just posts twice, both of which have little town motive behind them. My main issue is I view most lurker lynches as a coin-flip, but if Munk-E doesn't post anything in the next 6ish hours (amount of time I have till need to get ready and go to class) then it will kind of be forced on me to vote for him.
A Oats lynch probably isn't going to happen today, but who would be your #2 read if you wouldn't have to take consolidation into account (ie pick whoever you want for a lynch)? Just because Oats won't be lynched doesn't mean Munk-E has to be the alternative.
|
Munk-E isn't voting. If he doesn't show up to vote, will he be mod-killed or replaced?
|
Meh, I just can't convince myself Yamato or Kick are better lynches than Munk-E right now.
My brain tells me Yamato is scummy, but my feel is that he's not. My feel is that Kick is scummy, but my brain tells me he's not.
If Munk-E does shows up he might be able to convince me otherwise though and might give an indication that he'll be able to make himself useful later. If he doesn't show up, he's most likely getting modkilled anyway. In either case I', gonna have to prepare a second alternative.
|
On November 27 2012 01:49 Kickstart wrote:
Was my defense not adequate for you SDM? I really feel the points brought against me were pretty mediocre.
Not really, you've made sense with your posts. I even pointed out why I thought the case wasn't convincing beforehand. Somehow the thought you being scum got stuck in my head because it's posters like you who I don't pay too much to, who makes sense while stating quite obvious and uncontroversial opinions, that turn out to be scum later (while I've focused on bad players early).
This is shitty and unconvincing reasoning though, so I'd rather have you around to be able to make a better read later. In the end I'm really not convinced about any of the scum reads I've had. I think Munk is more or less a coin flip and if he flips green we're in a terrible spot D2.
|
I'll be off in an hour or so. After that I'll only be able to check back on the thread quickly. I most likely won't be around for the lynch.
It seems like the voting is kind of all over the place. I've come up with a few criteria that I will use when I decide on who to vote for and then I'll vote on whoever comes off as most scummy according to those. Not necessarily one of the main targets right now.
|
On November 27 2012 02:13 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Well I have finished everything. I don't want to vote munkey for listed reasons (when is the lynch btw?) but I have to vote before bed. So far I have to go Yamato77 or Kickstart. For the moment while I think I have to go Yamato while I think about the recent developments with kick (incase I fall alseep {3:11am})
##Vote: Yamato77
I can see why you don't want to vote for Munk, but why Yamato over Kick or anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
