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Ah I get to wake up to a case on me and many questions to answer, have to say I wasn't anticipating that. I am catching crap for "defending cheese". First off I am suspicious of everyone and no one at this point is confirmed town, but if me pointing out that the cases against him are absolute SHIT, then you can claim I am defending him, but saying that a case is founded on bad logic or that I don't agree with the case is hardly scummy.
On November 26 2012 05:35 Kickstart wrote:
In regards to your case on cheesecake SDM, I am personally not a fan of meta cases (they did not go well at all in my last game lol), I am much more interested in a players activity in this game. I have to agree on the point that he has echoed what has already been said in the thread, I just personally think it is a null tell at this point.
Right now I really need to hear more from the people lurking, they've had almost a day at this point to post something of substance and engage in some conversation.
On November 26 2012 06:00 Kickstart wrote:
I just haven't had good experience with meta-cases, plus since this is a noobie mini I wonder if there is really enough of a history on any player for a meta case to actually hold much weight. To be fair though I haven't played with any of the people in this game so I would really have to read up on them to formulate an opinion on meta cases unless people pulled extensive posts from the other games - but that is asking a bit much this early imo. That is basically why I said I am more interested in this game, but of course a solid case is a solid case, so if one can be made using someones performance in past games go for it. Interested in reading Cheese defense though.
On November 26 2012 06:03 Kickstart wrote:
Was ninja's by cheese! But he basically defended as I thought - how can you make a meta case on someone who only has two game, one as each faction ;/.
There are all the posts where I "defend" cheese, and all they say is meta cases in a noobie game where the person has only played one game each as town and scum is not worth anything to me. If you disagree then whatever, but me saying this is hardly scum, it is me trying to be a logical town. I am not going to just let shit cases fly on people when I don't think the cases hold any weight.
With that being said, I will explain why Aquas case on me is also shit. So he decides to start out by going after my first post as useless, content-less, and just a space filler. Well I take offence to that, especially given the posts of the majority of people in this thread. I think my post:
On November 25 2012 17:20 Kickstart wrote:Hello all, This is my second game, my first game was mario mini mafia where town won! (we lynched mafia first day and shot one first night, hopefully we can do the same here!) you can see the game here if you want to check my filter: Mario Mini MafiaOn the lurker lynch policy, I think scum reads should trump everything because the goal of the game is to find the scum. If someone doesn't post at all then they will likely get modkilled/replaced anyways, and if someone isn't posting much at all then we need to pressure them more. But yeah if someone is hardly posting and we have nothing else to go off of then that person would be a good D1 lynch. On that note we shouldn't get bogged down in policy talk too much because it is easy for mafia to hide in it (everyone can just be like "oh yeah mmhmm lets do that that sounds good" without contributing anything at all or can just keep the policy talk going on for awhile so that no other discussion is being had. And cheesecake all the way. @ OatsmasterIf you really have a scum read on Mr.Cheesecake then you need to make a case on him that tries to persuade us all. Posting "I have a feeling he is scum" is not going to make anyone throw their vote on him. Would you maybe expand a bit on why you think he is suspicious or if you still do?
Is much better than almost anyone's first post, and it has substance. I quickly say what needs to be said about policy because focusing on it too much is horrid as town, and I point out some shit play coming out from oatsmaster.
Then I get accused of "lurking" because I didn't post for four hours. I am not sure if this is a serious accusation or him grasping at straws to try and make a case. But frankly it is ridiculous, it is the start of the game, I posted a perfectly good introduction post that asked questions of people, and I was waiting for the answer. How you could possibly accuse ME of lurking in this thread is beyond me given the activity that I have had compared to others. But I will write it off as an attempt to bolster your "case" on me.
Then the rest of your "case" is just me going after Oatsmaster in an opportunistic way. For one, I am the FIRST person who was telling him to step up his posts in the beginning and I called him out for giving a half-assed vote without ANY explanation. AND HE IS STILL FUCKING DO IT, LOOK AT HIS RECENT POST:
On November 26 2012 16:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
I have a strong feeling that he is scum. I cant prove it due to having less than 10 posts to analyse.
On the fence means that I didnt see anything from him to change my vote.
Really? I pointed out the fact that saying "well there isn't much to go off of" and then saying you feel he is scum is really, really, silly - but Oats just continues to tunnel Cheese. I have just pointed out that Oats is playing horrible and that I am suspicious of it. And my case on Oats is not meaningless as you would like to paint it to be, look at his posting - completely confusing and doesn't drive any discussion at all; he is then asked to please give some real reasons and sound logic for his votes and he refuses while just continuing to post nothing of substance. And it also seems to me that a shitty wagon on Cheese has formed that he is all too keen to sit on.
Now again I must say I don't know if Cheese is town or not, but the case against him is crap and not convincing to me at all. Could he still be scum? Yes, but I won't be voting on crap cases, and other than a few horrible cases on him there is nothing; as is the case with this "case" on me.
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Yes I will be providing reads after this, just needed to get my defense out of my system. But before I provide reads I would like to point out that the tunneling of cheese and my tunneling of Oats are not equal. Cheese is being tunneled based on NOTHING, Oats even says it is based off of "feeling". Well I am sorry but you aren't going to convince me to vote on someone based on your feelings, especially when you refuse to back them up with anything else. I may have tunneled Oats but it has been justified and every one of you has to admit that:
1) His posts on cheese were horrid
2) he was asked to provide some real reasons and analysis and not only couldn't but basically refused to
3) even continued to say "I have a feeling on cheese" only a few pages ago
This is not acceptable for me and I honestly see only scum motives in this. Town would be all to willing to back up their reads with logic and sound reasoning, but this guy just blatantly refuses to.
Anyways some general reads all around coming up in a minute.
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I am going to copy the player list and then give reads on them from what I have gathered so far, if you want a more in depth read on someone ask away but I will try and make them as substantial as I can based on what we have to work with so far.
HeloKnight: I read him as a timid townie so far. Early on he was not posting much and got some flak for making easy points, but afterwards he did step it up and defended himself and then went on to make a case on Munk-E, so I get a slight town read on him (although as with most players in the thread so far, there isn't much to go off of).
Aquanim: Despite his case on me I read him as slightly town. Actually the case on me gives me that read because aqau is activiely trying to scum hunt and bringing pressure onto people that weren't being pressured at all before, so this I like as town play and encourage him to continue doing.
Mr. Cheesecake: null read. I soft-defended him because I felt like the cases were bad and had no weight, which I think can be agreed upon by everyone. Unfortunatly most of his posting doesn't allow me to have a town read on him because he hasn't done much in the way of sticking his neck out on anything. But on the other hand he has been forced to defend himself for most of Day 1 so I give him a null read thus far.
Sonic Death Monkey: SDM is my top town read so far. Again no one is confirmed town at this point but SDM is playing incredibly well and is a benefit to town at this point. He is pressuring people, providing honest and well thought out reads on people and at this point is a huge asset to town.
Oatsmaster: I think at this point everyone knows my views on Oats, so I won't expand on them much here. I think he is slightly scummy.
Jacob Strangelove: Null-read, here is another player who I don't feel I have enough to work with. He has posted a bit but again I don't feel strongly one way or the other just because there isn't much to go off of here.
Munk-E: There isnt much to be said that is new. Two posts - both not giving us much and one is just jumping on Oats with points that have been made. I would say LURKER but if i have to choose between town and scum I would say slight scum read, simply because I feel a town player would want to be more active while a scum player would do as he has - try to hide and maybe jump on some cases if he sees an opportunity.
Kickstart: I read myself as town ! No but seriously, If YOU want a read on me just read my posts in context, I feel like I have been trying to push sound reasoning and logic throughout the game and been nothing but honest about my reads on people.
Yamato77: Too many one liners for my taste, he did provide one large general read post (much like this one) but other then that has not tried to scum hunt at all - just nothing. I have to give yamato a slight-scum read at this point because he has been around, he has posted enough, but it has mostly been one-liners with no substance. Again I feel like a town player would want to make real, substantial posts instead of just coming in with one liners on everything.
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It seems like I am going to have to consolidate my vote eventually (I won't actually be here AT lynch time because I have class, have to leave a few hours before time) because it seems no one is convinced that Oats is scummy. I will probably have to vote for Munk-E based on the lurker factor and that at least other people have posted, while Munk-E just posts twice, both of which have little town motive behind them. My main issue is I view most lurker lynches as a coin-flip, but if Munk-E doesn't post anything in the next 6ish hours (amount of time I have till need to get ready and go to class) then it will kind of be forced on me to vote for him.
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Yep I feel the same way, it is going to be a coin-flip. But day 1 has not been so great thus far and other than some slight-scum reads and a read that no one else seems to agree with I don't have much :@.
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If Oats isn't getting the vote and since Munk-E is a coinflip I would say my next choice is yamato, but that would turn out as a coin-flip as well I think, probably better odds of hitting scum than a vote on Munk-E though. And jacob I have a pretty well written post on this bullshit about me goign on a rampage. I posted THREE posts about the cases on cheese, go read them. Me saying the case on him is bullshit (and going after Oats for posting shit) is not me hard-defending cheese. I don't know what you are trying to get at.
As for my "meta change" (I really hate this in games against players who have had 2 or less games so far.......) but my first game I was new, really didn't know what I was doing, and was with a TON of TLs bigger mafia personalities. This game I am trying to be more active and aggressive in my reads because I feel that more discussion is spurred this way and more is revealed than playing passively and timid.
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Was my defense not adequate for you SDM? I really feel the points brought against me were pretty mediocre.
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Been waiting to see if Munk-E is going to make an appearance and vote but so far nothing ;/. I have about 2 more hours before I am gone until after lynch so I will wait a bit longer and hope he appears. At this point it seems no one shares my suspicion of Oats and I don't want my vote to be meaningless. So I will probably end up voting for one of my other scum-reads at the moment (between Munk-E and Yamato). I wish Munk-E would come post because as I stated before a his posts are suspicious but there isn't much to go off of, he is basically lurking and a vote on him will be more of a coin-flip than I am comfortable with. I've already expressed my suspicion of Yamato; his short one line posts and just summation of everything - maybe you can make some more reads Yamato so I can get a better feel for what you are actually thinking?
Either way I am going to wait a bit longer before making a final decision, hopefully someone actually posts something instead of everyone sitting around waiting for lynch time to roll around.
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Well that is pretty much exactly what I wanted to see. Ball is in yamatos court now.
##unvote
##Vote: Yamato77
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Yeah don't you dare look like you are defending cheese by pointing out that no one has made a half way decent case on him. That is a scum tell you know.
/sarcasm
There you go Oats, even more people asking you to give some real reads and and a case with any substance behind it. I don't know why people are so upset that I am suspicious of Oats (when I was the only one with a vote on him btw, so it wasn't like a wagon or something) when his posting is so blatantly obscure and he STILL WONT MAKE A REAL CASE OR ANYTHING. It is baffling to me how I am getting people's vote when I am asking Oats to provide something useful, and I put a vote on him because he didn't and still refuses to - how the hell does that earn me a vote.
/rant
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Well I have to get ready to leave for class and once I am gone I won't be here until after the lynch. With that, it looks like the person being lynched right now is Yamato, so I would like to direct a question to him.
Yamato, if this is going to be a mys-lynch can you provide us with your top scumreads? Who is the scummiest to you and who do you think we should be getting rid of? Set us up for a good day 2 if you are town.
I will be here a bit longer and will read and comment if I need to so there is still time to convince me.
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I have I was just asking for more, but if you are content with what you have said that is cool with me.
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Only scum know who is town for sure ;/. The hell Yamato?
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Ah I see he meant his intentions. The hell cheese that isn't a scumslip that is me failing at reading his post and reading the shit you bolded out of context.
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Anyways I have to go for class now so my vote is set. Will be back after lynch or if I am really lucky class will let out early and I can get back and read the thread ina hurry before deadline. So in either case I am gone for a bit.
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Continue posting useless filth Oatsmaster so I can fucking blast you with a case day2. You just refuse to post any fucking reads yourself then want to vote me? You are either the worst town right now or the worst scum - have your choice.
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Claim that I am sheeping - hilarious. You haven't provided anything original, and are now jumping on me with no case whatsoever. I have given my top scum read - YOU, it is just that no one else sees it right now (though keep up your useless posting that you have been doing all game, will only make my day2 case on you stronger and maybe I can convince everyone else then) so I am forced to go with my next highest scum read. I am ignoring you now unless you post anything of substance worth responding to.
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Cause he is scummy as shit. He mindlessly throws his vote around, then just joins the wagon on Munk-E without a solid reason (as he has done to everyone he has voted on) and then doesn't give a shit that a towny just got lynched. I don't understand how no one else is as ready to get rid of Oats as I am. Scummiest player in the thread by far. I am going to have to look at all the votes on Munk-E tomorrow and see who jumped on the easy "lets lynch the lurker" wagon that is most suspicious.
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I agree with the general consensus that it is almost "too scummy to be true" because I would hope that a towny would try and do better after being asked to. And numerous people have asked him to just please provide a decent post with solid reasoning, but he just refuses to - I don't get it.
This is why I said voting a lurker is essentially a coin flip and wasn't a huge fan of it. And we lost this coin flip sigh
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Well I didn't switch because I had a scumread on Oats and Yamato. The objective of the game is to lynch the scum, not to get rid of lurkers. I already expressed that it was a shame that Munk-E had been lurking but lynching a lurker is a coin-flip, one I didn't really want to be a part of. And since my top scumread was not going to get any other votes behind it, I put my vote behind who I felt was more likely scum instead of putting my vote on a coin flip.
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EPT
