EPT+ Show Spoiler +
On October 07 2012 16:23 debears wrote:
Aright guys, I'm gonna put something new into the thread. Considering that Djo and Z-Bo are pretty much confirmed at this point, I was wondering why we are having so much trouble this game with finding the last mafia. My conclusions: The last mafia is playing a hell of a game. Looking at this, I've been wondering who is capable of this. At this point, I'd see Z-Bo, SDM, and SS. Z-Bo is confirmed. SS has said some scummy things and is at threat of being lynched.
However, one person has managed to avoid the spotlight throughout the whole game. He has not had anyone actually attack (besides Z-Bo day 1, but that was an argument over the validity of my defense of SDM early).
That person is SDM. Recently, his refusal to vote me in the lynch set off some alarms in my head. I've looked through his filter and found some things that don't make townie sense.
The Association with Kush
After SDM hardcore shut down kush and voted kush, pointing out multiple scumslips, this is all that kush had to say to him
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how kush does not flame, OMGUS, or insult SDM in any manner here. This is the only time kush addresses Sonic, and he does it in a neutral manner. Compare that to the reactions of kush to Dp (town), Z-Bo (town), and Stutters (town) when they all accused him. To me, Kush made a defense. The only neutral reaction he had to his early accusers is SDM. What this indicates to me is that kush was expecting SDM to attack him, making his post not a reaction but a response to an accusation he knew knew was coming.
Overconfidence
This is actually wrong. If anything, it should have taught SDM to be more confident in his reads. He had me pinned down but let me off the hook last game. He stopped pursuing me because of a misunderstanding of thrawn's lynch the last lurker comment.
Another quote talking about overconfidence. This is about not getting too confident in the endgame and losing because of it. The weird thing is that SDM disappeared after the lynch, on a weekend when he should have more time than the week. Yet, he hasn't posted anything. Is he overconfident? Seems like it. I don't know why either since the whole town has been spinning around in circles since the kush lynch.
Time and Indecision
Recently, SDM has been saying that he hasn't had time to look over filters
+ Show Spoiler +
For someone who has a pretty large filter, time doesn't seem to be a problem for SDM. He continued to post during this time, although he needed more to look at filters.
+ Show Spoiler +
Yet again, he says he won't be able to make up his mind on stuff since he doesn't have time. Notice the indecisive tone of those posts.
More indecisiveness. At this point, SDM seems to be falling apart for no reason.
There are more of them...I'm putting them in a spoiler right here if you want to read the rest
+ Show Spoiler +
Open Ended Answers
There are posts where SDM just goes on an explanation and doesn't settle on an opinion. Scum like using these kinds of post to make it look like they are actually saying something when they aren't
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how in both posts, SDM just revolves around an idea, citing it from each perspective and then jsut sayiing all of them are equally as likely. No actual insight
Contributions
Going back through SDM's thread, I considered what were his unique cases and scumreads?
The only one I actually found was Djo's case. However, SDM quickly dropped the case once suspicion on Djo picked up
+ Show Spoiler +
So, instead of going for his main case, he decides to turn onto me and Alsn, the easy cases. Let's look at his contribution to the Alsn case.
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how a half of his case is a poorly reasoned argument about the timing of Alsn's departure and kush's implosion. It is an argument based on assumptions. Next, he found it weird that Alsn defended kush (which had already been explained a bunch). However, he finds Alsn guilty of something that he had found me innocent of. Alsn had stated multiple times that he was trying to keep the whole town from tunneling kush, which is something that I also said. However, SDM only used that argument to clear me.
Notice how all his cases except Djo: (Omni, me, Alsn, SS/Corrosion) are points already brought up. Most of the time he just differently words an argument that has already been presented.
The Lynch or Lack Thereof
The events leading up to the lynch are a major scumslip in my book on SDM, He shriveled up into an indecisive shell at last moment. Yet, he wanted it that way.
. However, when it comes to the situation he wants, a last minute switch, he refuses to lynch me to gain information based on the sudden vote changes, which could immensely help the town.
1) It clears the confusion over me being scum or town
2) It gives a better indication of who is scum based on the reaction to the sudden voteswing.
Let's start with the beginning of the confusion
I don't understand this post. Instead of talking about whether a player is scummy, he starts rambling on whether others will show up Instead he latches onto Omni, a target we were pretty sure would be modkilled.
More indecisiveness, although this was the exact scenario he wanted so he could get some reads on voting.
He unvotes Djo, citing that he liked Omni better. We had already discussed the scenario of voting for Omni if he comes back. Yet, SDM still acts confused.
This was about the cop claim. SDM brings up a distracting, pointless question that he knows the answer to. The only way to be 100% on a cop claim is 1) a lynch of the cop 2) a scum lynch that the cop points out. Since 2) was not an option due to no red reads, lynching Djo would've been the only answer. SDM knows this. He is a good player that does not suddenly go full retard like this unless its for a reason.
Next, he keeps the topic off who to lynch. he keeps talking about the probability of the claim being true, which is a moot point at that time. Notice how he keeps avoiding the topic of who we should lynch
Look hard at this post. Look really hard. He knows his biggest scum read is going to get modkilled at this point, yet his still wants to vote for him. He says he doesn't know on Shady. And finally, HE HASN"T GIVEN LYNCHING ME MUCH THOUGHT AFTER I WAS A HEADLINE ALL GAME IN THE SCUMREADS UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH????
That is bs. Total bs. He is definitely lying there.
Alright. Let's summarize his lynch thoughts
1) Indecisive
2) Wants a No lynch
3) Becomes extremely confused
4) Disappears right after his WTF post
Now, let's look at townie and mafia motivations
1) Town - He is actually confused. He believes that SS and Me might be town. He believes that Omni may still pop up.
Problems with this thought - We all said we would be willing to switch back to Omni if he suddenly showed up to avoid modkill. But btw SS and me, town has to lynch one of us! SS might be town or might be scum. Either way, we need to clarify his alignment. The same is for me (from your guy's angle, I am town). SDM knows this. By taking out one of us, it would have led to more information for town at a stage where we can afford a mislynch. I needed 1 more vote for a lynch. Yet, SDM sits there, suddenly becoming the most indecisive player in the world despite what appeared to be a very good game in which everyone saw him as town.
2) Mafia - By keeping, SS and me(especially me) around, a mafia has the opportunity to take advantage of the confusion it will create for town. He can get away with nks that will easily be blamed on me and SS until our alignments are cleared up. He can act on the confusion in the thread and hide behind not forcing a vote (despite the fact that he stated earlier that he wanted a last minute vote situation).
SDM, you're looking pretty scummy right now
##unvote
##vote: Sonic Death Monkey
All I ask from all the town that is left is to look at this case multiple times. Read SDM's filter. After I get lynched, I feel that SDM is the most likely scum. JUST READ WITH TOWNIE GOGGLES FOR NOW. VOTE ME. LYNCH ME. AND THEN TAKE HIM DOWN.
Aright guys, I'm gonna put something new into the thread. Considering that Djo and Z-Bo are pretty much confirmed at this point, I was wondering why we are having so much trouble this game with finding the last mafia. My conclusions: The last mafia is playing a hell of a game. Looking at this, I've been wondering who is capable of this. At this point, I'd see Z-Bo, SDM, and SS. Z-Bo is confirmed. SS has said some scummy things and is at threat of being lynched.
However, one person has managed to avoid the spotlight throughout the whole game. He has not had anyone actually attack (besides Z-Bo day 1, but that was an argument over the validity of my defense of SDM early).
That person is SDM. Recently, his refusal to vote me in the lynch set off some alarms in my head. I've looked through his filter and found some things that don't make townie sense.
The Association with Kush
After SDM hardcore shut down kush and voted kush, pointing out multiple scumslips, this is all that kush had to say to him
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2012 06:33 kushm4sta wrote:
sdm you make no sense. I tried hard not to make scumslips last game. this game I did not. because I am not scum.
I don't know if any of you guys have had this experience but when everyone wants to lynch you and you are definitely going to get lynxhed, it just feels like why am I going to waste my time writing cases and making arguments for this shitty town. that's gonna kill me anyway.
I'm actually starting to hope I get lynched to teach town a lesson.. all scums put your votes right here. easiest d1 ever I hope you guys win.
sdm you make no sense. I tried hard not to make scumslips last game. this game I did not. because I am not scum.
I don't know if any of you guys have had this experience but when everyone wants to lynch you and you are definitely going to get lynxhed, it just feels like why am I going to waste my time writing cases and making arguments for this shitty town. that's gonna kill me anyway.
I'm actually starting to hope I get lynched to teach town a lesson.. all scums put your votes right here. easiest d1 ever I hope you guys win.
Notice how kush does not flame, OMGUS, or insult SDM in any manner here. This is the only time kush addresses Sonic, and he does it in a neutral manner. Compare that to the reactions of kush to Dp (town), Z-Bo (town), and Stutters (town) when they all accused him. To me, Kush made a defense. The only neutral reaction he had to his early accusers is SDM. What this indicates to me is that kush was expecting SDM to attack him, making his post not a reaction but a response to an accusation he knew knew was coming.
Overconfidence
This is actually wrong. If anything, it should have taught SDM to be more confident in his reads. He had me pinned down but let me off the hook last game. He stopped pursuing me because of a misunderstanding of thrawn's lynch the last lurker comment.
Another quote talking about overconfidence. This is about not getting too confident in the endgame and losing because of it. The weird thing is that SDM disappeared after the lynch, on a weekend when he should have more time than the week. Yet, he hasn't posted anything. Is he overconfident? Seems like it. I don't know why either since the whole town has been spinning around in circles since the kush lynch.
Time and Indecision
Recently, SDM has been saying that he hasn't had time to look over filters
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 05 2012 23:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
D2 voting:
Debears by Darth 1-0
Debears by Djo 2-0
Alsn by Darth 1-1
Debears by Alsn 2-1
Debears by Omni 3-1
Alsn by SDM 3-2
Alsn by Debears 3-3
Debears by Boson 4-3
Alsn by Shady 4-4
Unvote + BotN by Boson 3-4
Alsn by Remedy 3-5
Alsn by Djo 2-6
Alsn by Stutters 2-7
Alsn by Boson 2-8
I'd need my conspiracy goggles on to see Boson pushing Alsn here. Read the links, it doesn't looks like Boson tries to nudge the decision in Debears favor. The case doesn't necessarily hinge on this, but it makes it considerably weaker. I'd need more time to read filters...
D2 voting:
Alsn by Darth 1-1
Debears by Alsn 2-1
Debears by Omni 3-1
Alsn by SDM 3-2
Alsn by Debears 3-3
Alsn by Shady 4-4
Unvote + BotN by Boson 3-4
Alsn by Remedy 3-5
Alsn by Djo 2-6
Alsn by Stutters 2-7
Alsn by Boson 2-8
I'd need my conspiracy goggles on to see Boson pushing Alsn here. Read the links, it doesn't looks like Boson tries to nudge the decision in Debears favor. The case doesn't necessarily hinge on this, but it makes it considerably weaker. I'd need more time to read filters...
For someone who has a pretty large filter, time doesn't seem to be a problem for SDM. He continued to post during this time, although he needed more to look at filters.
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 05 2012 21:55 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
That's actually an interesting case.
It's true Boson ignored the Kush case d1. He had a good case on Debears imo, so I didn't really find it weird he was pushing his own case (we all tend to be biased towards our own cases, at least that's true for me). I need to go back and look up his filter myself. He did switch to Alsn and I can't remember his reasonings. I feel like the individual pieces of evidence you have are not that strong, but they paint an interesting picture.
One question I have right off the bat, if it was all a big master plan, why did he initially vote for Debears d2? Seems like it could've caused the noose battle to become one-sided. Anyway, I'll go back and check his filter, I'm not 100% sure of those events.
What do you think of the Omni case? Having to read both of your filters I doubt I'll have time to make up my mind on this and I still like it.
That's actually an interesting case.
It's true Boson ignored the Kush case d1. He had a good case on Debears imo, so I didn't really find it weird he was pushing his own case (we all tend to be biased towards our own cases, at least that's true for me). I need to go back and look up his filter myself. He did switch to Alsn and I can't remember his reasonings. I feel like the individual pieces of evidence you have are not that strong, but they paint an interesting picture.
One question I have right off the bat, if it was all a big master plan, why did he initially vote for Debears d2? Seems like it could've caused the noose battle to become one-sided. Anyway, I'll go back and check his filter, I'm not 100% sure of those events.
What do you think of the Omni case? Having to read both of your filters I doubt I'll have time to make up my mind on this and I still like it.
Yet again, he says he won't be able to make up his mind on stuff since he doesn't have time. Notice the indecisive tone of those posts.
More indecisiveness. At this point, SDM seems to be falling apart for no reason.
There are more of them...I'm putting them in a spoiler right here if you want to read the rest
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 05 2012 20:49 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I need to grap some food and reread all this stuff, my head is spinning. For now...
##Unvote
I need to grap some food and reread all this stuff, my head is spinning. For now...
##Unvote
On October 05 2012 20:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Not sure, Shady was my second pick until my brain just recently exploded. Djo's FOS was totally of the blue but I don't necessarily see a strong mafia motivation. If he's mafia maybe he wanted an easy wagon on you and backed off once Debears and I replied? Seems kind of unlikely.
Not sure, Shady was my second pick until my brain just recently exploded. Djo's FOS was totally of the blue but I don't necessarily see a strong mafia motivation. If he's mafia maybe he wanted an easy wagon on you and backed off once Debears and I replied? Seems kind of unlikely.
On October 05 2012 15:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Confirmed.
I'll just say right away I'm not jumping a late Boson wagon, at least not if those are the arguments. Shady's post is a joke, what does this even mean?
I have no idea what's going on here.
Confirmed.
I'll just say right away I'm not jumping a late Boson wagon, at least not if those are the arguments. Shady's post is a joke, what does this even mean?
I have no idea what's going on here.
On October 05 2012 13:53 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I'm pretty thrawn suggested in XXVII that scum is more likely to be talking about the NK rationale of scum. I don't think I've seen that myself though so I'm not sure whether it's true. Probably not, night actions seems like a rather common talking point in newbie games.
I'm pretty thrawn suggested in XXVII that scum is more likely to be talking about the NK rationale of scum. I don't think I've seen that myself though so I'm not sure whether it's true. Probably not, night actions seems like a rather common talking point in newbie games.
Open Ended Answers
There are posts where SDM just goes on an explanation and doesn't settle on an opinion. Scum like using these kinds of post to make it look like they are actually saying something when they aren't
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 03 2012 20:43 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I don't know what to make of Debears post-d2 posts because it's putting me in total WIFOM mode and I should probably just ignore it.
But disregarding his last posts which obviously could be the result of leveling, is his case stronger than the one I just made? Maybe it's the excitement of novelty, but really? At least I'd say Debears play has been way more pro-town. He has his scummy-looking inconsistneies for sure, but at the same time he was aggressive d1. He tried making cases, get the thread started. He took attention because he was willing to, compare that to Omni who's just cruising by. At least I encourage you to pop out of the Debears bubble we've all been in to look at it.
Also, to Debears benefit, does scum really hang on this long when faced by pages and pages of accusations? I know I gave in quickly in XXVI because it seemed pointless. And look at Kush's reaction. That's the only examples I have myself from experience, maybe Debears is different. And maybe you can question if a townie would hang in this long. At least Alsn did.
I don't know what to make of Debears post-d2 posts because it's putting me in total WIFOM mode and I should probably just ignore it.
But disregarding his last posts which obviously could be the result of leveling, is his case stronger than the one I just made? Maybe it's the excitement of novelty, but really? At least I'd say Debears play has been way more pro-town. He has his scummy-looking inconsistneies for sure, but at the same time he was aggressive d1. He tried making cases, get the thread started. He took attention because he was willing to, compare that to Omni who's just cruising by. At least I encourage you to pop out of the Debears bubble we've all been in to look at it.
Also, to Debears benefit, does scum really hang on this long when faced by pages and pages of accusations? I know I gave in quickly in XXVI because it seemed pointless. And look at Kush's reaction. That's the only examples I have myself from experience, maybe Debears is different. And maybe you can question if a townie would hang in this long. At least Alsn did.
On October 05 2012 13:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I know Drazak slipped his medic role in XXVI after his night action and Xatalos picked up on it (that's why I don't really like blue role discussions after night actions). This is not how he slipped though, Drazak slipped it by talking about the rationale of the medic. I feel like this could easily just be scum trying to passively suggest three mislynches (we should lynch Debears, Djodref and Alsn, not because I want to but because Darth wants to) or just a green speculating. Or possibly a medic, but the risk of him being medic AND missing to save Darth seems rather low to me. You need two rather low probability events to coincide for that to be true.
Basically I just don't make much out of this post.
I know Drazak slipped his medic role in XXVI after his night action and Xatalos picked up on it (that's why I don't really like blue role discussions after night actions). This is not how he slipped though, Drazak slipped it by talking about the rationale of the medic. I feel like this could easily just be scum trying to passively suggest three mislynches (we should lynch Debears, Djodref and Alsn, not because I want to but because Darth wants to) or just a green speculating. Or possibly a medic, but the risk of him being medic AND missing to save Darth seems rather low to me. You need two rather low probability events to coincide for that to be true.
Basically I just don't make much out of this post.
Notice how in both posts, SDM just revolves around an idea, citing it from each perspective and then jsut sayiing all of them are equally as likely. No actual insight
Contributions
Going back through SDM's thread, I considered what were his unique cases and scumreads?
The only one I actually found was Djo's case. However, SDM quickly dropped the case once suspicion on Djo picked up
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 01 2012 22:09 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
My main focus for today will be Debears, Djo and Alsn. Djo has already responded to the case presented yesterday. The individual evidence presented earlier matches the actions of how I would expect newbie scum to play, but for whatever it’s worth my “feel read” is that he’s coming off as quite genuine. I’ve also been going through his recent posts and can’t seem to find any obvious contridictions or inconcistencies in his explanations. It’s all newbie based explanation that could be made up ex-post but a newbie scum is likely to have fucked up at least some part of the defense, so if this is an innocent newbie charade he’s playing it off rahter well.
I’m feeling a bit uneasy going for a Djo lynch and for now I’m leaning towards Alsn or Debears being the better candidates. Both have been posting a metric shit ton lately so I've got my hands full going through everything. I’m looking to complete that half-finished thought I threw out on Alsn yesterday and have a better idea of which lynch I’m liking later today.
My main focus for today will be Debears, Djo and Alsn. Djo has already responded to the case presented yesterday. The individual evidence presented earlier matches the actions of how I would expect newbie scum to play, but for whatever it’s worth my “feel read” is that he’s coming off as quite genuine. I’ve also been going through his recent posts and can’t seem to find any obvious contridictions or inconcistencies in his explanations. It’s all newbie based explanation that could be made up ex-post but a newbie scum is likely to have fucked up at least some part of the defense, so if this is an innocent newbie charade he’s playing it off rahter well.
I’m feeling a bit uneasy going for a Djo lynch and for now I’m leaning towards Alsn or Debears being the better candidates. Both have been posting a metric shit ton lately so I've got my hands full going through everything. I’m looking to complete that half-finished thought I threw out on Alsn yesterday and have a better idea of which lynch I’m liking later today.
So, instead of going for his main case, he decides to turn onto me and Alsn, the easy cases. Let's look at his contribution to the Alsn case.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +.
On October 02 2012 04:04 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So yeah, not only did this turn out not to be an argument in favor of Alsn, but the timings makes sense for him being scum. Kush’s posts are actually most reasonable when Alsn is around and he later blows up after Alsn leaves with this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
This in itself isn’t necessarily incriminating but worth noting.
Anyway, I’ll focus more on your reasoning for defending Kush. I don’t think it’s been fully covered and reading your filter this is something that doesn’t make sense to me.
Intro:
+ Show Spoiler +
Your main arguments for defending Kush is 1) his meta supporting his play and 2) the scum slip not being severe. To me that’s a really weird conclusion to make.
Meta: I’m curious about this post because I disagree. I made a post later regarding how I think it didn’t match his town meta, a post you didn’t reply to (basically I think he has shown to be more aggressive, inflammatory and posted more pure crap as scum).
Scum slip: Now that Kush is lynched, could you explain what those easy outs you thought of were? I’m really not seeing what easy outs you'd see for Kush straight up calling his attacker townie.
Not only do I find your reasons for defending Kush weird, but to me they seem contradictory. Particularly when you claim that he is “basically just writing up whatever is on his mind” (which I think is true to a certain extent). If that’s your meta read on Kush, it would make all sense in the world that the scum slip is an actual scum slip. Typing what’s on your mind is exactly what results in a scum slip like that. So you’re using his meta to make null read on Kush's aggressive and nonsensical posts (which I disagree with) and you downplay his scum slip although it contradicts your meta read. To me this seems like slips in logic in made in order to defend Kush, a defense I now realize is both direct and indirect
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 01 2012 02:36 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I tried to collect my thoughts regarding the Alsn case and I realized when I first commented my perception of the timeline of events was off.
On my first read through of the thread, I found Alsn being generally suspicious of everything (overall a town trait) and he had been fucking up with regards to some of the information (perhaps not what I'd expect of Alsn given what I've seen of him before, but I don't find it too weird). Alsn was pretty much a null read to me. Anyway, I went back to look at Alsn's filter.
In his first post, which happens around 11 hours after the start of the game, he makes a long ass post about his thoughts on Kush. This in itself might be suspicious to some people, but having played with Kush in XXVI and XXVII he was probably the one player I was thinking the most about who to handle pre-game so I don't find it too weird. In his next post, one hour later, he has read up on the thread and recognizes that Kush has been playing like he Alsn had been afraid he would. He FOS Kush but says he's not convinced.
Anyway, when I said I wasn't convinced of the case, I had messed up the timeline of events. I thought Alsn's posts indirectly defending Kush happened not long before Kush completely blew up. If that was the case, I would've found it weird for Kush to blow up soon after his scum buddy showed him support. It seems now that Kush blew up at a later stage when Alsn wasn't around the thread, so that nullifies the argument I thought I had against the case.
I felt it was best to put it out there because if I happen to get killed off I don't want to leave with the impression I had some well thought out objection to the Alsn case. I still need to finish reading Alsn's filter and look at the case again, but I won't have time to do it until tomorrow.
I tried to collect my thoughts regarding the Alsn case and I realized when I first commented my perception of the timeline of events was off.
On my first read through of the thread, I found Alsn being generally suspicious of everything (overall a town trait) and he had been fucking up with regards to some of the information (perhaps not what I'd expect of Alsn given what I've seen of him before, but I don't find it too weird). Alsn was pretty much a null read to me. Anyway, I went back to look at Alsn's filter.
In his first post, which happens around 11 hours after the start of the game, he makes a long ass post about his thoughts on Kush. This in itself might be suspicious to some people, but having played with Kush in XXVI and XXVII he was probably the one player I was thinking the most about who to handle pre-game so I don't find it too weird. In his next post, one hour later, he has read up on the thread and recognizes that Kush has been playing like he Alsn had been afraid he would. He FOS Kush but says he's not convinced.
Anyway, when I said I wasn't convinced of the case, I had messed up the timeline of events. I thought Alsn's posts indirectly defending Kush happened not long before Kush completely blew up. If that was the case, I would've found it weird for Kush to blow up soon after his scum buddy showed him support. It seems now that Kush blew up at a later stage when Alsn wasn't around the thread, so that nullifies the argument I thought I had against the case.
I felt it was best to put it out there because if I happen to get killed off I don't want to leave with the impression I had some well thought out objection to the Alsn case. I still need to finish reading Alsn's filter and look at the case again, but I won't have time to do it until tomorrow.
So yeah, not only did this turn out not to be an argument in favor of Alsn, but the timings makes sense for him being scum. Kush’s posts are actually most reasonable when Alsn is around and he later blows up after Alsn leaves with this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2012 03:50 Alsn wrote:
Would just like to say that I'm going to bed a little early today. Will be up in the morning(~12-14 hours before lynch) and making some posts and then on and off until lynch but without major "leaves of absence". Here's hoping that no one is still lurking when I wake up.
Would just like to say that I'm going to bed a little early today. Will be up in the morning(~12-14 hours before lynch) and making some posts and then on and off until lynch but without major "leaves of absence". Here's hoping that no one is still lurking when I wake up.
This in itself isn’t necessarily incriminating but worth noting.
Anyway, I’ll focus more on your reasoning for defending Kush. I don’t think it’s been fully covered and reading your filter this is something that doesn’t make sense to me.
Intro:
+ Show Spoiler +
When Alsn makes his first post Kush is taking heat from Darth. The Kush case hadn’t really been built yet, but the information is there. This is something Alsn acknowledges in his second post.
The OMGUS, the aggression, the flaming, the scum slip. Despite this, he’s going back on what he just said in his first post:
And instead posts:
So he leaves saying he’s undecided on Kush, trying to steer the discussion in a different direction and if not, him having an easier bus decision (again, not incriminating in itself, but not my main point).
On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes.
Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes.
The OMGUS, the aggression, the flaming, the scum slip. Despite this, he’s going back on what he just said in his first post:
On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote:
So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content
So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content
And instead posts:
On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast.
However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast.
So he leaves saying he’s undecided on Kush, trying to steer the discussion in a different direction and if not, him having an easier bus decision (again, not incriminating in itself, but not my main point).
Your main arguments for defending Kush is 1) his meta supporting his play and 2) the scum slip not being severe. To me that’s a really weird conclusion to make.
Meta: I’m curious about this post because I disagree. I made a post later regarding how I think it didn’t match his town meta, a post you didn’t reply to (basically I think he has shown to be more aggressive, inflammatory and posted more pure crap as scum).
Scum slip: Now that Kush is lynched, could you explain what those easy outs you thought of were? I’m really not seeing what easy outs you'd see for Kush straight up calling his attacker townie.
Not only do I find your reasons for defending Kush weird, but to me they seem contradictory. Particularly when you claim that he is “basically just writing up whatever is on his mind” (which I think is true to a certain extent). If that’s your meta read on Kush, it would make all sense in the world that the scum slip is an actual scum slip. Typing what’s on your mind is exactly what results in a scum slip like that. So you’re using his meta to make null read on Kush's aggressive and nonsensical posts (which I disagree with) and you downplay his scum slip although it contradicts your meta read. To me this seems like slips in logic in made in order to defend Kush, a defense I now realize is both direct and indirect
Notice how a half of his case is a poorly reasoned argument about the timing of Alsn's departure and kush's implosion. It is an argument based on assumptions. Next, he found it weird that Alsn defended kush (which had already been explained a bunch). However, he finds Alsn guilty of something that he had found me innocent of. Alsn had stated multiple times that he was trying to keep the whole town from tunneling kush, which is something that I also said. However, SDM only used that argument to clear me.
Notice how all his cases except Djo: (Omni, me, Alsn, SS/Corrosion) are points already brought up. Most of the time he just differently words an argument that has already been presented.
The Lynch or Lack Thereof
The events leading up to the lynch are a major scumslip in my book on SDM, He shriveled up into an indecisive shell at last moment. Yet, he wanted it that way.
. However, when it comes to the situation he wants, a last minute switch, he refuses to lynch me to gain information based on the sudden vote changes, which could immensely help the town.
1) It clears the confusion over me being scum or town
2) It gives a better indication of who is scum based on the reaction to the sudden voteswing.
Let's start with the beginning of the confusion
I don't understand this post. Instead of talking about whether a player is scummy, he starts rambling on whether others will show up Instead he latches onto Omni, a target we were pretty sure would be modkilled.
More indecisiveness, although this was the exact scenario he wanted so he could get some reads on voting.
He unvotes Djo, citing that he liked Omni better. We had already discussed the scenario of voting for Omni if he comes back. Yet, SDM still acts confused.
This was about the cop claim. SDM brings up a distracting, pointless question that he knows the answer to. The only way to be 100% on a cop claim is 1) a lynch of the cop 2) a scum lynch that the cop points out. Since 2) was not an option due to no red reads, lynching Djo would've been the only answer. SDM knows this. He is a good player that does not suddenly go full retard like this unless its for a reason.
Next, he keeps the topic off who to lynch. he keeps talking about the probability of the claim being true, which is a moot point at that time. Notice how he keeps avoiding the topic of who we should lynch
Look hard at this post. Look really hard. He knows his biggest scum read is going to get modkilled at this point, yet his still wants to vote for him. He says he doesn't know on Shady. And finally, HE HASN"T GIVEN LYNCHING ME MUCH THOUGHT AFTER I WAS A HEADLINE ALL GAME IN THE SCUMREADS UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH????
That is bs. Total bs. He is definitely lying there.
Alright. Let's summarize his lynch thoughts
1) Indecisive
2) Wants a No lynch
3) Becomes extremely confused
4) Disappears right after his WTF post
Now, let's look at townie and mafia motivations
1) Town - He is actually confused. He believes that SS and Me might be town. He believes that Omni may still pop up.
Problems with this thought - We all said we would be willing to switch back to Omni if he suddenly showed up to avoid modkill. But btw SS and me, town has to lynch one of us! SS might be town or might be scum. Either way, we need to clarify his alignment. The same is for me (from your guy's angle, I am town). SDM knows this. By taking out one of us, it would have led to more information for town at a stage where we can afford a mislynch. I needed 1 more vote for a lynch. Yet, SDM sits there, suddenly becoming the most indecisive player in the world despite what appeared to be a very good game in which everyone saw him as town.
2) Mafia - By keeping, SS and me(especially me) around, a mafia has the opportunity to take advantage of the confusion it will create for town. He can get away with nks that will easily be blamed on me and SS until our alignments are cleared up. He can act on the confusion in the thread and hide behind not forcing a vote (despite the fact that he stated earlier that he wanted a last minute vote situation).
SDM, you're looking pretty scummy right now
##unvote
##vote: Sonic Death Monkey
All I ask from all the town that is left is to look at this case multiple times. Read SDM's filter. After I get lynched, I feel that SDM is the most likely scum. JUST READ WITH TOWNIE GOGGLES FOR NOW. VOTE ME. LYNCH ME. AND THEN TAKE HIM DOWN.
So either you got comfortable as scum or you are just degrading your game.
I had to do some things, will read more carefully now.
Wake the fuck up guys, I'm getting lynched in a completely lazy and stupid way. A case based solely on meta is worthless. Read my case on thrawn for crying out loud. "Not lynching replacements" is a dumb way to go about it. Thrawn's meta is indisputably off (someone said RL reasons. Well, my reasons are also RL..) and ASIDE FROM THAT. His play is completely scummy and incoherent.
This town is getting lazy lazy. All it takes to avoid a mislynch on me is to fucking read and fucking think.
. You'll find out soon enough.
