EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 64
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Yes, I wanted you to stop bluehunting. I criticize you for bluehunting twice. You stopped bluehunting. Really had to get that to stop Djodref. I'm having a really hard time making sense of this, when you are employing tactics that make no sense. And djo, I really do mean townies in this quote "Scum love nothing more than when two townies are at each others throats constantly without looking at other people." Why would I say players here? It completely changes the meaning of the sentence. I explained this earlier. And shortly after making that, I unvoted debears and started looking in other places. On November 05 2012 10:01 sylverfyre wrote: My chance following cheesecake voting debears? If cheese flips town, it's clarity or debears. Probably both. Finally, this is AFTER the vote deadline. Marv specifically said that votes after the deadline don't count. I was trying to figure out at this point if we were being misled and who was responsible for it. A mislynch on a VT can give info, after all, and it's not the end of the world. What's the lack of consistence in activity? That I was more active during the weekend? It's a weekend. Also, as has been brought up before, many tactics are less effective if you are telling the target what you're doing. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Djodref wrote Do you have any idea the power you would have given to town with 3 confirmed townies ? No, you wanted to avoid this, so you spread doubt and confusion. My point is that you would have sympatize with debears and cheese if you were also a VT, especially with Cheese because you had no reason to suspect him beforehand (his play being very similar to yours), even with the extra information that you had, because you would have been before in their position, ie with no information at all. Did you see debears reaction after this, he tried to confirm all the VT alltogether. It would have ended the game... I'm sorry but you are not VT, and I hope that all the other VTs in this game can realize this after this poat. What? No, it wouldn't end the game. It would end with blue roles being hunted all game, while scum players can easily claim to be as clueless as VTs because they know who's who. If scum even confirms a few VTs, they get to target blue roles easily at night. I don't get why you put so little value in blue roles, Djo. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 06 2012 21:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Answer my damn question, what did you mean by "given your experience this game" I mean that you are a newb, and newb dont go and ask questions to the host. Ok, Clarity, I have a question for you. Let's assume for an instant that you are Clarity the regular fapper. According to you, what would have thought Clarity the regular fapper when he realized the flavors were different between the OP and the PM ? On a side note, your scumhunting looks like a defense move... | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 06 2012 22:02 Djodref wrote: I mean that you are a newb, and newb dont go and ask questions to the host. What? New people are LESS inclined to ask questions? | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 06 2012 03:00 Clarity_nl wrote: Date: 11/5/12 2:48 That's not what I asked. I asked if everyone was aware of the VT flavor. If I'm VT -> I want to make sure if I should claim (when the time comes) Townie or Regular Fapper, and I wonder if scum/blue knows flavour. If I'm Blue -> I want to know if scum knows VT flavor, and if VT knows the rest knows flavour. If I'm Scum -> I want to know if blues know flavor, and if VT know the rest knows flavour. Easy for you to say, there are only so many hours in a day and I spent all of mine defending myself, and still am. I was hoping today would be calmer because it's the nightcycle, but it seems people would rather push and push and push rather than collect their thoughts. It does mean something, but what it meant (in my eyes) was: "I'm having doubts about debears being scum, especially with the way he's reacting to all of this" Cheese looked scummiest to me at that point, and YES, it made it so that I didn't get lynched. Surprise, a 100% wrong lynch looked worse to me than the person who looked scummiest to me. (See, I can do sarcasm as well) On November 06 2012 03:23 Clarity_nl wrote: Okay well, you implied you narrowed me down to blue or scum, so let me phrase it this way: If I'm VT, and I notice the difference between PM and OP flavour, I would wonder if saying I'm a regular fapper would create chaos because the blue roles and scum have no idea what I'm talking about OR if I claim Townie, that people would say I'm lying because I would've known it was called regular fapper if I was actually VT..... I hope that makes sense. I refuse to answer any more of your questions if I have already answered them before. This has happened way too much for me to think you simply "missed it." | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 06 2012 22:02 Djodref wrote: On a side note, your scumhunting looks like a defense move... Djo, I stopped caring what you think of me a long time ago. I have realized I cannot convince you otherwise. You are either full of confirmation bias or you are scum. Me asking you questions are to determine which it is. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I would like to know if anyone was sharing this point of view ^^ | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Could you give me your own sum-up of your scumhunting actions so far ? Who would you like to lynch today ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Alsn, you are not matching at all your usual activity level as town and you have only targeted town players until now (debears and Cheese). What is happening to you ? I'm using my vote to pressure you into making cases ##unvote ##Vote Alsn | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why it is very unlikely for Clarity to be town
I couldn't resist before going to bed ^^ | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Would anyone be up for a lynch on sylverfyre today ? | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
Your arguments against clarity are embarrassing. If you're town, please get help from your coach. You seem to think you've got the whole world figured out, but you don't. On November 06 2012 22:02 Djodref wrote: I mean that you are a newb, and newb dont go and ask questions to the host. Wrong. On November 06 2012 20:15 Djodref wrote: @ Clarity Night or Day, I'm expecting a fake blue claim from you. I wanted to force you to produce it and try to show how your blue claim is fake. I did not manage to do it last time for dandel but I should get my revenge Given your experience in this game, I doubt that you actually went for marv to ask your infamous question about the flavor, in the case where you are VT. Stupid obvious trap. If he was going to do that, he's not going to now. What's wrong with you? On November 06 2012 20:15 Djodref wrote: @ Clarity Night or Day, I'm expecting a fake blue claim from you. I wanted to force you to produce it and try to show how your blue claim is fake. I did not manage to do it last time for dandel but I should get my revenge Given your experience in this game, I doubt that you actually went for marv to ask your infamous question about the flavor, in the case where you are VT. Stupid assumption. On November 06 2012 20:46 Djodref wrote: I think that you are blue or scum because a VT Clarity would have defended Cheese. But I don t think that you can really be blue... A VT could be completely confused at what to do, probably hold off on voting, push cheese to explain himself, be super disappointed when his case was the epitome of WIFOM. On November 06 2012 21:01 Djodref wrote: ok, we have now 2 VT dead. Both of them were at least as experienced on playing mafia on this forum if not more for debears. Both of them did not ask the host about the flavor or whatever. Stupid terrible point that means nothing. On November 06 2012 21:01 Djodref wrote: Here is what I expect of VT Clarity ~ not sending a question to the host about the flavor in your own VT pm, which Clarity did ~ even with some doubts, recognize the genuiness of the other two VT going into a high five festival and join the festival, which Clarity did not do Reasons against VT clarity sending a PM are all stupid assumptions and I can't believe you keep pushing them. VT clarity notices that his PM flavor isn't in the OP and PMs the host because he wants to know if this is useful information he could have. VT cheese thought the same, but didn't PM the host. VT cheese straight up believed this was a good option to secretly speak with the other VTs and he made a move on it. Different people can do different things from the same thought process and you thinking clarity is scum because he didn't do what you think he should have done is absolutely retarded. Figuring out the genuineness of cheese and debears on the spot was extremely hard. I wasn't convinced on debears, even with his high five, until his sylver questions during the time he could be lynched. At that point, I was like shit, I think debears is probably town, but I think moreso of cheese, so I'll stick on debears since there's no better option and I had a scum read on him before. Also, debears tried to out blues, in hindsight an accident, but at the time hard to figure out. It was a very close call for me to change form cheese to debears because cheese started all the chaos, so i can see someone in my same position making the different choice of sticking to cheese. Djo, all your damn arguments could be used against me if I had voted for cheese instead of debears in that situation, and all your arguments are WRONG. That's why I keep defending clarity, not because he's necessarily town, but because all your arguments and assumptions are WRONG. Please sit back and truly consume this post I have just given you. Don't go ballistic and try to ask me 10000 questions without first thinking about it. Sit back and read the shit out of it until you understand what I'm trying to say. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On November 06 2012 21:01 Djodref wrote: ok, we have now 2 VT dead. Both of them were at least as experienced on playing mafia on this forum if not more for debears. Both of them did not ask the host about the flavor or whatever. Go back and read debears at the point he realized what cheese was talking about. He did not realize the PM flavor was not in the OP until cheese pointed it out. You can damn well bet that clarity read every bit of that OP after he got modkilled last game from not knowing the rules. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
You know what you get day 1 if you get 3 "confirmed" townies? You get scum hiding in the confirmed townies (like I am inclined to believe Clarity was attempting to do when he got Cheesecake to "Confirm" him as town) and you hand scum a massively inflated chance of targetting blues at night. But you don't make the blues any more believable by town, and you may still find that one or more of "confirmed" townies are dead by the time LyLo comes around because they're confirmed. Djodref, What do YOU think we would have accomplished if went through with confirming a bunch of VT through debears method on day 1? | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On November 07 2012 01:23 Rad wrote: One more thing on this point: Go back and read debears at the point he realized what cheese was talking about. He did not realize the PM flavor was not in the OP until cheese pointed it out. You can damn well bet that clarity read every bit of that OP after he got modkilled last game from not knowing the rules. Hm. Good point. Also damn good reason to go doublechecking with the mod before posting about receiving mod PM stuff. Makes sense. I'm not convinced that you can use it to make a case that Clarity isn't scum, but it does convince me that Djodref's arguments make no damn sense. Are you trying to throw someone under the bus? | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 07 2012 01:34 sylverfyre wrote: To be fair, if Cheese had the right assumption and that it was actually possible to "confirm" all VT's, it would probably have been pretty good for town. The problem was, what was to stop a non-VT(either blue or scum) from just saying "uuh, I didn't know everyone knew?" after debears asked that question? There was just no way to confirm anyone as anything considering what we now know, so stop it with the absolutely ridiculous speculation.Djodref, What do YOU think we would have accomplished if went through with confirming a bunch of VT through debears method on day 1? However, if it had actually been possible to confirm all the VTs, scum would probably have been in a fishy situation. They would know who the blues were, but they wouldn't know which blues they were. At the same time, all the VTs would have known who not to lynch, in addition to the blues(assuming there's two of them, which is just a guess at this point) knowing among which three players the scum were hiding. That would've probably been a pretty difficult situation for scum because even if they night kill both blues, no VT is going to lynch another VT in a scenario like that. So there's no way for scum to proceed than to NK VTs and hope town lynches the blue players instead of scum. This would still leave 3 VT vs 2 scum in D3 though. I think Cheese just made a mistake in not thinking it through, as a scenario like that would include no "proper" play at all from the game participants. So if that really was the case Cheese claiming like that would have meant that marv probably would have cancelled and restarted the game with new roles. It's unfortunate that we didn't have enough time to think it through, because in hindsight I think Cheese's argument about "why would I blow up the thread as scum?" looks pretty convincing actually. That's the last thing I'll say on the matter. The fact is that there's absolutely no way to confirm or deny anything with regards to that clusterfuck. With that in mind, like the late debears said, going forward we should use legit scum hunting, not WIFOM bullshit. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On November 06 2012 23:58 Djodref wrote: I love the absolutely massive hypocrisy of this post. You don't want Clarity to post a case on you when you are away. Then you criticise him for actually listening to you. Then you go around and do the exact same thing to me?I'm not planning to post tonight because I'm tired and I need to be able to think clearly. I'm going to drop Clarity for a while because the fact that other players give him a town read makes me crazy... Alsn, you are not matching at all your usual activity level as town and you have only targeted town players until now (debears and Cheese). What is happening to you ? I'm using my vote to pressure you into making cases ##unvote ##Vote Alsn What is happening to me? How about I was asleep and went to work? I've been on pretty consistently from around early-late afternoon my time every single day, so I don't even know what you are basing your post on. | ||
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