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On November 07 2012 21:49 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 14:40 sylverfyre wrote:
No surprises here. Nothing he's said has absolved him. And I have no reason to doubt Djo's alignment (though I still reserve the right to doubt his strategy calls - as risky as it was to claim, it worked. Well.
##Vote Clarity
Sorry I haven't been very active today. It's kinda my birthday and I had a really long day (I'm sure a few of you noticed the icon on me while server was on November 6)
da0ud, are you saying I'm preferred based on WIFOM that rad is more associated with clarity, therefore it ISN'T Rad? I attacked clarity pretty much right after the lynch Day 1. You can detect a scum bussing his partner here because sylverfyre shows absolutely no doubt about Clarity alignment. But sylver play was very scummy anyway. Active lurking, low investment in the game, poor scumhunting. Almost too scummy to be scum... Clarity should have bussed him D1 imho...
I'm a bit offended by the "active lurking" part. Until yesterday I was plenty active. Yesterday I was pretty well convinced that Clarity was scum, every time I peek at the thread, Djo is still going crazy and Clarity is still scummy, and I still don't know where the second scum is. Yesterday was MY BRITHDAY.
A lot of my scumhunting has been criticizing people for using questionable tactics. Questionable tactics are a great way for scum to hide while looking like they're being effective townies, I see no problem with using it as a way to scumhunt.
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On November 07 2012 21:49 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 14:40 sylverfyre wrote:
No surprises here. Nothing he's said has absolved him. And I have no reason to doubt Djo's alignment (though I still reserve the right to doubt his strategy calls - as risky as it was to claim, it worked. Well.
##Vote Clarity
Sorry I haven't been very active today. It's kinda my birthday and I had a really long day (I'm sure a few of you noticed the icon on me while server was on November 6)
da0ud, are you saying I'm preferred based on WIFOM that rad is more associated with clarity, therefore it ISN'T Rad? I attacked clarity pretty much right after the lynch Day 1. You can detect a scum bussing his partner here because sylverfyre shows absolutely no doubt about Clarity alignment. But sylver play was very scummy anyway. Active lurking, low investment in the game, poor scumhunting. Almost too scummy to be scum... Clarity should have bussed him D1 imho...
You also showed absolutely no doubt about his alignment. You want to know what I found damning?
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I'll also point out you aren't flaming anyone else for being sure about Clarity. Why me? I was posting about him early, but one of the last ones to vote because I wasn't sure and your arguments don't make sense to me.
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On November 05 2012 12:05 sylverfyre wrote:
So. Cheesecake does his flavor-roleclaim. Who follows? Clarity's the first to really manipulate people into looking at him favorably. (when he had looked bad all game)
FOS: Clarity
Debears is involved as well, but he doesn't make much of it for a bit - he sits back and lets it play out. He's not for or against it. It's not until Rad warns about dropping blue targets that debears backs off.
FOS Debears.
Strong Town read on Rad.
Shortly after night 1 started.
I was targetting Clarity here because knowingly manipulated cheesecake into "confirming" him as VT based on flavor.
I don't understand your arguments about flavor between you and Clarity today at ALL though. I really would rather throw these flavor arguments out the window because it's pretty clear to me at this point that marv has no intention of flavor being a mechanic for outing people this game, and I've thought this since he posted that everyone has the VT flavor PM. I also think it's perfectly reasonable for Clarity, who got modkilled last game, to PM marv with all the rules questions he possibly could have.
This has 0 effect on my scum read on Clarity.
A big thing which pushed me over the edge is how he is defending himself before his roleclaim with "why should I claim?" - I think that's something a real town player - especially a blue - would decide for themselves, rather than let their accuser make a case for why they should claim. On the other hand, I think I have perfectly normal motivations for why I was trying to get Djo to stop calling for a claim.
As for why I asked Djo to stop calling for a claim - I'm sitting on the sidelines here. It was pretty clear to see that Clarity claiming blue, fake OR real, means that both our blues are out in the open. 9 player games typically have 2 mafia 2 blue (I run them IRL all the time, and that's what I run with, anyway. Obviously it's different and I don't know the setup, but I have no reason to believe that there's 3 blue.)
As for who I think is scummy? I'm thinking it's Obzy or da0ud. Rad still seems genuine to me, Alsn counterclaimed the way he was forced to.
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Kinda wish you let djo come to his own conclusion on that. Now scum knows the Night action plan too. Though I guess if Djo doesn't like it, the scum ends up in a WIFOM situation trying to outsmart the blue powers?
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Djo, reply to me not marv ;o;
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Fine by me, if I spend my night in jail I can prove myself clean and still be alive. We'll have 3 players alive, at most 1 will die, you can jail another tomorrow night and we'll have 2 confirmed townies or a confirmed scum 3player LyLo. I think we're guaranteed a town victory at this point regardless of what you think about me.
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No I'm not accusing you to be scum. I'm saying you have massive confirmation bias about me.
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I believe Clarity's scum for my own reasons. Your reasons suck. Forcing out a claim -> counterclaim sucked, though it 100% confirms that Clarity is scum. Why should we believe you about any of your other scum reads? What if we rely on Alsn at night, but the person he investigates is framed because you're wrong about me? You've completely turned the game into power roles vs. power roles, us vanilla townies have no power right now. We have to follow our blues now.
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Also Djo, if you're secretly a scum roleblocker and lucked out that there is no jailkeeper and only 1 power role, I WILL hate you for this play.
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So... you're saying that you'll confirmation bias the fuck out of me regardless of tonights results? I see.
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On November 08 2012 00:58 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 00:46 sylverfyre wrote:
Also Djo, if you're secretly a scum roleblocker and lucked out that there is no jailkeeper and only 1 power role, I WILL hate you for this play. @ SylverfyreDon't make me laugh, I'm going to achieve 20 pages filter when you have 5 and I would be the scum. I told you that Alsn and me share the same secret "extra information" that you were asking me for. We are both 100% confirmed to each other. The fact that Clarity could not write a proper case against Obzy is a very strong proof that Obzy is town. Mafia writes good cases when they bus, but it's way more difficult for them when they have to frame. On top of that, Obzy shows a very likely behavior for a first time player as VT. I would also say that he deserves his victory if his emotional post was fake. @ OnbzyOnce again, congrats for your analysis on Clarity According to me, the remaining scum is among Rad, daoud and you. You look the worst among these 3 so you spend your night in my jail. That is if you are not a mafia roleblocker...
A TWENTY PAGE FILTER IS RIDICULOUS.
Does anyone in the Acme mafia game have a 20 page filter? I looked at a bunch of them. Most active players have around 5 pages. The most active players have 8 and 9 page filters. It's night 2 over there. BTW, they also are a 13 player game and have 20 less pages than we do. You post like a madman. I think you're right about Clarity, but I also think you're crazy and full of confirmation bias.
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I'm not trying to cast suspicion on the blues. At all. I have faith right now that they are who they claim to be, the evidence is difficult to refute. There's only 1 way I see that Djo can be scum, I pointed it out, and it's NOT EVEN WORTH CONSIDERING unless Clarity flips Cop. In fact, I'm not even going to bring it up again unless Clarity DOES flip Cop.
I'm simply accusing Djo of confirmation biasing the fuck out of me. To the point where I'm pretty sure nothing I say AND nothing he does will make him believe my innocence.
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I'm not convinced you can take an assumption like that as fact. I don't know how marv came to the actual setup either (QQ, I like RNG-transparency here.) but it's common for roles to be decided completely randomly - useful or not. I've seen plenty of games with a godfather but no cop, a framer isn't a role I'm particularly familiar with, but the same applies. Arguably, cop-less town setups are weaker anyway, so that ends up balancing out the null power role of scum.
That aside, I suppose you're right that IF there were a framer, then it would be LESS LIKELY for Clarity to choose Cop as his roleclaim over Medic. But this is behavioral and not statistical analysis of the situation.
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On November 08 2012 04:39 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 02:45 Djodref wrote: @AlsnI have a very good feeling when I see Obzy and daoud acknoledge each other. My town read on them is reinforced. Nice job guys ! Good grasp of the situation  Would you also conclude that the remaining scum is sylver or Rad ? Djod, keep in mind at this point, there's basically no gain whatsoever for scum to oppose the Clarity lynch for any reason. If scum for some reason isn't sylver or possibly Rad, that person would have everything to gain from sucking up to you and your master plan like you're the messiah or something.
That's exactly why I'm afraid of Djo's confirmation bias against me.
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Has the thread exploded? No? Good.
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I'm a little confused what you mean by "At the part with sylver" - do you mean where he replied to marv's post about flavor by saying 'well, who didn't know this?' and both you and I were telling him that he was going to end up outing blues?
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On November 08 2012 12:43 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 12:50 sylverfyre wrote:On November 05 2012 12:10 Rad wrote:On November 05 2012 12:05 sylverfyre wrote:
So. Cheesecake does his flavor-roleclaim. Who follows? Clarity's the first to really manipulate people into looking at him favorably. (when he had looked bad all game)
FOS: Clarity
Can you quote the post you're talking about here? He was really late to jump on the cheese vote train. At what point do you think he was manipulating people? His pseudo-claim: On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? @ sylvefyreWhat did you mean by "pseudo-claim" when talking about Clarity post in response of Cheese claim ?
When I read this post from clarity, I took it to mean that he was trying to establish himself as town-aligned, knowing that Cheesecake didn't know at the time that everyone had the VT PM. Taking advantage of CC's incomplete information I found really scummy, and was my first big tell towards finding Clarity scum.
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Rad, don't you see that the same is true of the accusations Djo is making at me? I think we're looking in the complete wrong direction.
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You've been attacking me for the entire length of this game. Why do I need to wait for you to post anything to criticize the things you've been saying all game?
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EPT
