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On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:13 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:07 Alsn wrote:
[quote]Again, that isn't even what he said. He said he wanted you to post less fluff and more content. How is that a vote to make you post less?
Also, if you're explaining away fluff as sparking conversation I don't know what to say, how is posting a bunch of fluff productive? Either people find you scummy for it(bad if you're town, it lessens your credibility) or people will actually reply with fluff themselves(even worse). How much fluff do you actually see in my filter? Quote it and put it in a spoiler. Then take my quotes that look like they are accomplishing something. and put them in another spoiler. I want to see how much you think his fluff argument holds true. That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head
Why do you keep asking me to? I don't give a shit one way or the other at this point about your percentage of fluff. I care that you want people to spend their time looking into your fluff percentage. If you're town, why do you want people to waste their time and dirty up the thread with this fluff percentage that wouldn't mean a damn thing (because you'd be town, so it doesn't even matter if your fluff % is 100%)? If you're scum, I can totally see the motivation in this.
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On November 04 2012 02:46 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:
[quote]
That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head Well I'm glad you cleared that up. Anyway, you want your number so badly? 35% fluff. Can we move on now? I feel like we reversed 12 hours and we're talking about Cheese's joke. Ok. Finally. I have 65% content in a large filter according to you, which arguably is more contribution to the thread than most. This is why the fluff argument is invalid. See my point Rad? That is all. Now, scumhunting coming
He made up a number to get you to shut up about it.
I'm not done with this until you give me a good reason you would want anyone to:
a) Go through all your posts (large filter already), separate them into fluff and non fluff
b) Come up with an exact percentage of your fluff.
If you're town, you wouldn't want anyone to waste their time doing either of the above because it wouldn't matter at all. Scum hunting town is ultimately wasting time in the end. Only you know if you're town, so as town, you would want people to not scum hunt you. You don't have to worry about any fluff case alsn has until it has put you at risk of being lynched.
If you're scum, it makes sense to want to make people waste their time.
Explain your motivation.
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On November 04 2012 02:56 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:46 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:
[quote]
Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head Well I'm glad you cleared that up. Anyway, you want your number so badly? 35% fluff. Can we move on now? I feel like we reversed 12 hours and we're talking about Cheese's joke. Ok. Finally. I have 65% content in a large filter according to you, which arguably is more contribution to the thread than most. This is why the fluff argument is invalid. See my point Rad? That is all. Now, scumhunting coming He made up a number to get you to shut up about it. I'm not done with this until you give me a good reason you would want anyone to: a) Go through all your posts (large filter already), separate them into fluff and non fluff b) Come up with an exact percentage of your fluff. If you're town, you wouldn't want anyone to waste their time doing either of the above because it wouldn't matter at all. Scum hunting town is ultimately wasting time in the end. Only you know if you're town, so as town, you would want people to not scum hunt you. You don't have to worry about any fluff case alsn has until it has put you at risk of being lynched. If you're scum, it makes sense to want to make people waste their time. Explain your motivation.
@debears
I was serious here, I need an explanation of your motivation before I can move on. I'm getting the impression from you that you're not going to reply because you switched over to sylver and stuck to it long enough now without a response to me.
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On November 04 2012 04:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Rad
Debears aside, who do you think is acting the most suspicious? Do you think Sylver's opinion / vote on Debears is in any way scummy?
I don't have any really strong reads on anyone yet. I'd say to me, so far, (debears aside) djo is most suspicious, but it's the same kind of suspicion I had last game so I'm forcing myself to not take it seriously yet.
I'm fine with sylver's super early pressure vote. Because he's in the spotlight now I'll probably step back and look into him more but nothing has jumped out as scummy to me so far.
Obzy feels pretty townie so far. You, cheese, seem very different from last game and I need to spend some time thinking about that. Pretty null on everyone else.
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On November 04 2012 05:02 Clarity_nl wrote:
Although caution can be a good thing Rad, you should be careful.
If you don't have enough information to make a read make sure to get more information.
It would be too easy for scum to go: "Ah, I dunno, don't really have any reads" You shouldn't be getting away with this as town.
I'm curious as to any cases you might make in the next 24 hours.
I get your concern. However, I haven't shown any reason for you to believe I won't be scum hunting plenty between now and end of d1. I wasn't making some sort of excuse, I was just pointing out that I don't have great reads at the moment. My scum hunting is much more based on reacting to things that happen rather than causing things to happen. Good or bad, it's been that way since beginning of last game. I think there's plenty of conversation going on right now and we're all getting more information to base our thoughts on at a good pace.
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On November 04 2012 05:08 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
Do you mind discussing why I'm suspicious in your eyes. I've just skimmed through your filter and I didn't see you making points against me. I must say that I've skimmed very quickly...
1. Your FoS on cheese for his scumtell joke, saying it's confusing (when it wasn't, at all), then internet sarcasming right after that (which is inherently confusing). Speaking of which, I don't think you made any comment on me pointing that out earlier.
2. You being against pressure voting when you pressure voted multiple times last game. Who cares if he didn't explicitly state that it was a pressure vote? It's a vote super early in the game and has very little chance of riding into the lynch, obviously it's a pressure vote.
3. I feel like I remember reading a statement by you near end of last game to the extent of "I see why we should lynch lurkers now. I certainly will next time! I promise!" but I can't find it... So, hell, it might not have even been you who said that, but I feel like I remember it being you. Add that with your hard stance against lurker policy lynch this game and it's just more confusion surrounding you.
maybe more, I forget. Anyway, I've attempted to dismiss the above based on nack's point last game of you just making no sense sometimes. Basically you make me confused as hell and that makes it really hard to consider you anything but suspicious. I'm reluctant to look at it further at this point because it feels very similar to last game.
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On November 04 2012 05:16 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:12 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 05:02 Clarity_nl wrote:
Although caution can be a good thing Rad, you should be careful.
If you don't have enough information to make a read make sure to get more information.
It would be too easy for scum to go: "Ah, I dunno, don't really have any reads" You shouldn't be getting away with this as town.
I'm curious as to any cases you might make in the next 24 hours. I haven't shown any reason for you to believe I won't be scum hunting plenty between now and end of d1. Well yeah but.... you haven't shown me any reason that you WILL either.
You mean besides my persistent scum hunting against debears? What do you want me to do, scum hunt against everyone at the same time? I try to comment on other people's arguments as they come up but I can only handle so much at once.
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On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
2.It's very important to state your reasons for your vote. Sylverfire failed to explain what he wanted from debears with his vote so I didn t see it as a pressurr vote. It turned out that it was more like a super FoS. I'm not against pressure voting but you have to state clearly what is your goal with it. Voting for casting suspicion upon someone sounds like voting for voting in my opinion.
3. It was me indeed but I don t think we need the policy for this game. The activity level is high and you can vote for anyone if you have a problem. It works better this way I think.
#2 Djo, is your mind going to be blown if sylver flips green? Can you not fathom a townie making a pressure vote without explaining it? Let's say that you're right, every time you make a pressure vote you need to make sure your intention is clear. Does not doing that mean they're scum or could it just be bad townie?
#3 Thanks for confirming that, it was bothering me that I couldn't find it. However, I think you've completely missed the point of the policy lynch. Please try to think hard about why town wants to agree to policy lynch early in the game.
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On November 04 2012 05:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
2.It's very important to state your reasons for your vote. Sylverfire failed to explain what he wanted from debears with his vote so I didn t see it as a pressurr vote. It turned out that it was more like a super FoS. I'm not against pressure voting but you have to state clearly what is your goal with it. Voting for casting suspicion upon someone sounds like voting for voting in my opinion.
3. It was me indeed but I don t think we need the policy for this game. The activity level is high and you can vote for anyone if you have a problem. It works better this way I think. Hmm... @Rad What do you think about that underlined portion right there?
@Cheese
How about you give me your thoughts instead of asking for mine and then agreeing with me 
Having manipulation flashbacks of your case vs djo last game:
On October 29 2012 01:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Rad
I'm interested on what you have to say concerning my case on Djo / on Djo in general. Nobody else has given their strong thoughts on the Djodref case with the exception of himself.
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@Cheese
Djo's english comes across as awkward like that. I can't see it as a scum tell. Next time you're interested in pointing out something like this, you should do it rather than letting someone else do it and then agreeing with them.
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Jesus debears, what is with you wanting me to give a percentage estimate of your fluff? When have I ever shown interest in it? That was a conversation between you and someone else (alsn and/or sylver) that suddenly you thought I was the original person.
Here's where you first ask me to come up with a percentage:
On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:13 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:07 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 02:01 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:58 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:49 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:39 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:13 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 14:44 sylverfyre wrote:
Holy shit, this flavor. What.
If we're gonna lynch a lurker, I'd rather it be early game than late, at least. But I think that we have more... dedication among the townies this game. There wasn't a long wait for the last few signups - everyone here seems pretty pumped to play some mafia seriously. I don't think lurker policy lynch will come up at all. You said townies. That's very different than saying the town or players. Very, very different. It means that you either 1) Think the people being active are townies 2) Know that the people being active are townies There is no other reason for using townies to describe those of us who are showing activeness and dedication Also, you voted me, meaning you voted for someone who you think is townie based on the above. That is scummy as shit debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho. Eh. I think it's very odd to say that townies have good dedication, and I'm one of the guys showing dedication, yet he votes me. Also, what do you think of this part of his post alsn? I kinda expected a bit more... substance in the thread by now. For a guy who hadn't posted anything, why is he calling all the actives out for substance? What good does that do? That part of his post, sure, I agree that it's somewhat a silly statement. It doesn't change the fact that you had been acting very strangely and quite counter-productive to town interests. From where I'm sitting his vote was merited. Especially in light of the fact that he said he meant it as a strong FoS as opposed to a rock solid reason for why you absolutely must be scum. You OMGUSing him most certainly doesn't damage his case. Also, it's unfortunate that I'm indirectly helping him defend himself, but at this point I simply find you/Djod more scummy than him and I figured the chance of him being scum was lower than the risk of you guys getting off the hook if I had stayed silent and just watched. It seems that from the latest developments that other people had the same thought. So, in essence, you think that a vote to tell someone to post less is productive? Being active =/ acting strangely or counter productive I was sparking conversation dude OMGUS is warranted when I find him scummy Again, that isn't even what he said. He said he wanted you to post less fluff and more content. How is that a vote to make you post less? Also, if you're explaining away fluff as sparking conversation I don't know what to say, how is posting a bunch of fluff productive? Either people find you scummy for it(bad if you're town, it lessens your credibility) or people will actually reply with fluff themselves(even worse). How much fluff do you actually see in my filter? Quote it and put it in a spoiler. Then take my quotes that look like they are accomplishing something. and put them in another spoiler. I want to see how much you think his fluff argument holds true. That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far.
I never said you were posting so much fluff. I said that IF you're town, it would be a waste of time for Alsn to split up your entire filter based on fluff vs not fluff, and IF you're scum you clearly don't think that the percentage is damning so it would be a huge waste of time. I've restated it over and over again but you still haven't answered my question. You just keep wanting me to give you a percentage, which doesn't make any sense because I wasn't a part of any argument about the quality of your posts.
On November 04 2012 02:56 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:46 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:
[quote]
Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head Well I'm glad you cleared that up. Anyway, you want your number so badly? 35% fluff. Can we move on now? I feel like we reversed 12 hours and we're talking about Cheese's joke. Ok. Finally. I have 65% content in a large filter according to you, which arguably is more contribution to the thread than most. This is why the fluff argument is invalid. See my point Rad? That is all. Now, scumhunting coming He made up a number to get you to shut up about it. I'm not done with this until you give me a good reason you would want anyone to: a) Go through all your posts (large filter already), separate them into fluff and non fluff b) Come up with an exact percentage of your fluff. If you're town, you wouldn't want anyone to waste their time doing either of the above because it wouldn't matter at all. Scum hunting town is ultimately wasting time in the end. Only you know if you're town, so as town, you would want people to not scum hunt you. You don't have to worry about any fluff case alsn has until it has put you at risk of being lynched. If you're scum, it makes sense to want to make people waste their time. Explain your motivation.
Explain it already!
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On November 04 2012 08:32 debears wrote:Sudden 180 on me+ Show Spoiler +After my obsy post, Rad didn't immediately jump on it saying I was attacking Obsy. This is what he said On November 03 2012 13:42 Rad wrote:
@Clarity
That's a great point and I want to reemphasize it.
@Obzy
If you're town, please disregard any suggestions about you being useless so far. Just keep attempting to be useful and you'll get the hang of it. You don't have to post as much as debears, djo, or even myself to be useful so don't get discouraged. However, don't hold back and give your input on things when you have input as it'll be helpful to town if we get some more input from you.
Also I see debears has directed some questions at you so here's a chance to open up a bit. In this post, he doesn't seem to think I'm attacking Obsy. He seems to think that I'm giving Obsy some questions to kick start his participation. Read the last line. Yet, he suddenly turns into this after I ask him for reads on sylver/dau0d/djo and tell him there's no reason to not scumhunt because you might make a few bad cases On November 04 2012 00:46 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:10 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 00:06 Rad wrote:On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX.
@ Rad
Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend?
I felt a bit of inig coming through in obzy. Overwhelmed, confused, but potentially useful to town. I didn't want to see him shy away due to how fast the conversations were coming and going here. I wanted him to open up and let his thoughts be known. Yes, I'll be watching MLG pretty much every minute it's on until it's done on Sunday. I do that for every MLG I get a chance to watch. My fiance is working all day today so all I got is MLG and this newbie mafia to pay attention to :D Might play a game here and there (ns2), but I expect a lot of my time today to be dedicated towards this game while watching MLG. As for my being more careful, it's based strictly on how I changed over the course of last game. I based my cases on a lot of stupid things and confirmation bias but couldn't ever realize it until after townies started flipping when I was sure they were scum. I want to avoid that this time and at least have some more solid reasoning when I decide to center in on someone. Rad, alot of early d1 cases will end up being stupid in hindsight. Hapa, a good player, even stated so in GSL III I believe. That doesn't excuse you from scumhunting. I understand getting Obsy to post to avoid having him lurk, but you seemed too focused on it. What are your thoughts on Dau0d/syler/Djo from the last couple of pages? I haven't said I don't plan on scumhunting. What gives you that impression? You're coming to a false conclusion on what I've been talking about. Concerning obzy, what do you mean I seemed too focused on it? I tried to help him understand my stance on lurkers because he had some issues with it. Then I had to jump in and make sure he didn't get super demotivated because YOU were calling his posts useless and worthless. What does a town want a newbie town to do? Learn how to play the game and be useful to town. What does a scum want a newbie town to do? Feel scared at the thought of being terrible at the game, back off, say nothing out of fear. How exactly are you helping town by talking shit to the new guy at the beginning of d1? He is super defensive. He suddenly changes his opinions on my post on obsy for literally no reason. Oh and I posted this earlier after my original obsy post. On November 03 2012 13:47 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:42 Rad wrote:
@Clarity
That's a great point and I want to reemphasize it.
@Obzy
If you're town, please disregard any suggestions about you being useless so far. Just keep attempting to be useful and you'll get the hang of it. You don't have to post as much as debears, djo, or even myself to be useful so don't get discouraged. However, don't hold back and give your input on things when you have input as it'll be helpful to town if we get some more input from you.
Also I see debears has directed some questions at you so here's a chance to open up a bit. Yeah. That case is in no way saying omg he's scum. It's more of light pressure to get him to state some views, be more active in this. However, Rad, what I would like to know is that, although you are obviously following the thread in the shadows, you aren't posting to much. Why is that? My intent on making a post on obsy seems pretty clear to me that I was trying to get him to be active. Yet, Rad somehow interprets my post as an attack on Obsy's ego. On November 04 2012 01:27 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 01:16 debears wrote:
@Rad
I concede on the worthless point.
Also, there are two ways of encouraging newbies to post
1) Pressure
2) Kindness
I chose 1 initially. Notice my reaction after Obsy responds. Would you say that is talking shit to him? Pressure's fine with me. That wasn't pressure though. That was an attack on his ego and the only motivation I can see for it is to shut him down fast and create a lurker out of him (which, as you know, many of us would want to lynch). What reaction of yours to his response are you talking about? All I see is "So what is your exact read on me? Scum, slightly scum, null, slightly town, or town?" but that's just a question, not motivational or de-motivational. Did he forget that I told Obsy to go get coaching help? How is my original post on Obsy an "attack on his ego?
At the time, I just noticed you threw a bunch of questions at obzy. I hadn't actually read through them yet. I refreshed before posting and noticed that you had questions for him, so saw it as a good point to enhance my thoughts about "just be open and helpful."
When I was talking about "ignore anything about you being useless", I was actually referring to this post:
On November 03 2012 13:28 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:26 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:22 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:11 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay re-reading your post you're saying we shouldn't focus on one/two people, instead considering everyone and not consolidate on a lynch? @ ClarityExactly, I think you everyone should just vote for his top scumread while giving enough reason to do so and then we start again from there and see who is likely to be lynched, be it 2 or 3 players. I think it's the best way to use plurality lynch. Considering only 2 possibilities narrows the discussion and allows mafia players to have some excuse to lynch town (cf Cheese last game lynching daoud in the daoud/ini match-up). The downfall is that the end of the day could be a bit messy. seriously.....why are we having to explain this? 1) Scumhunt 2) Vote for your top scumread 3) When the voting comes down to 2 candidates and lynch is near, pick one of two said candidates and give reasoning why you're voting them Is that clear enough for all of you to understand? Please stop talking about policy @ debearsMy point is that it would benefit us to consider more than 2 candidates for the lynch. Anyway it's too late to discuss about it now, I was just answering Clarity's question about it. By the way it's not policy, it's lynch mechanics  More semantics, anyways it's useless. What do you think of Obsy's, Dau0d's, and Sylver's epic uselessness so far?
When i went back to look over your posts, I ran into the long post giving obzy questions. At that point, I noticed you threw around the words useless and worthless. When I discussed it further, I believe I had forgotten about the original post (that I quoted above).
To clarify, here was the order of things:
1. You call obzy, da0ud, and sylver useless.
2. I start making a post to obzy to help him rest assured that he shouldn't be discouraged by this statement.
3. Before I post, I refresh the page and see that you have questions for him. I take that as an opportunity to enhance my post by pointing out that he has an easy opportunity to answer some questions now and open up. To be honest here, at this point I'm not even thinking "debears called him useless" I'm just thinking "someone called him useless and I don't want him to get discouraged" and then I notice that you've got some questions.
4. When I revisit it and make a case about you being anti-town with your attacks, I pretty much forgot about the original post, and at that point I finally read through your post of questions, which I built the case around.
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On November 04 2012 09:06 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 08:54 Rad wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Jesus debears, what is with you wanting me to give a percentage estimate of your fluff? When have I ever shown interest in it? That was a conversation between you and someone else (alsn and/or sylver) that suddenly you thought I was the original person. Here's where you first ask me to come up with a percentage: On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:13 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:07 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 02:01 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:58 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:49 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:39 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:13 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 14:44 sylverfyre wrote:
Holy shit, this flavor. What.
If we're gonna lynch a lurker, I'd rather it be early game than late, at least. But I think that we have more... dedication among the townies this game. There wasn't a long wait for the last few signups - everyone here seems pretty pumped to play some mafia seriously. I don't think lurker policy lynch will come up at all. You said townies. That's very different than saying the town or players. Very, very different. It means that you either 1) Think the people being active are townies 2) Know that the people being active are townies There is no other reason for using townies to describe those of us who are showing activeness and dedication Also, you voted me, meaning you voted for someone who you think is townie based on the above. That is scummy as shit debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho. Eh. I think it's very odd to say that townies have good dedication, and I'm one of the guys showing dedication, yet he votes me. Also, what do you think of this part of his post alsn? I kinda expected a bit more... substance in the thread by now. For a guy who hadn't posted anything, why is he calling all the actives out for substance? What good does that do? That part of his post, sure, I agree that it's somewhat a silly statement. It doesn't change the fact that you had been acting very strangely and quite counter-productive to town interests. From where I'm sitting his vote was merited. Especially in light of the fact that he said he meant it as a strong FoS as opposed to a rock solid reason for why you absolutely must be scum. You OMGUSing him most certainly doesn't damage his case. Also, it's unfortunate that I'm indirectly helping him defend himself, but at this point I simply find you/Djod more scummy than him and I figured the chance of him being scum was lower than the risk of you guys getting off the hook if I had stayed silent and just watched. It seems that from the latest developments that other people had the same thought. So, in essence, you think that a vote to tell someone to post less is productive? Being active =/ acting strangely or counter productive I was sparking conversation dude OMGUS is warranted when I find him scummy Again, that isn't even what he said. He said he wanted you to post less fluff and more content. How is that a vote to make you post less? Also, if you're explaining away fluff as sparking conversation I don't know what to say, how is posting a bunch of fluff productive? Either people find you scummy for it(bad if you're town, it lessens your credibility) or people will actually reply with fluff themselves(even worse). How much fluff do you actually see in my filter? Quote it and put it in a spoiler. Then take my quotes that look like they are accomplishing something. and put them in another spoiler. I want to see how much you think his fluff argument holds true. That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. I never said you were posting so much fluff. I said that IF you're town, it would be a waste of time for Alsn to split up your entire filter based on fluff vs not fluff, and IF you're scum you clearly don't think that the percentage is damning so it would be a huge waste of time. I've restated it over and over again but you still haven't answered my question. You just keep wanting me to give you a percentage, which doesn't make any sense because I wasn't a part of any argument about the quality of your posts. On November 04 2012 02:56 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:46 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:
[quote]
Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head Well I'm glad you cleared that up. Anyway, you want your number so badly? 35% fluff. Can we move on now? I feel like we reversed 12 hours and we're talking about Cheese's joke. Ok. Finally. I have 65% content in a large filter according to you, which arguably is more contribution to the thread than most. This is why the fluff argument is invalid. See my point Rad? That is all. Now, scumhunting coming He made up a number to get you to shut up about it. I'm not done with this until you give me a good reason you would want anyone to: a) Go through all your posts (large filter already), separate them into fluff and non fluff b) Come up with an exact percentage of your fluff. If you're town, you wouldn't want anyone to waste their time doing either of the above because it wouldn't matter at all. Scum hunting town is ultimately wasting time in the end. Only you know if you're town, so as town, you would want people to not scum hunt you. You don't have to worry about any fluff case alsn has until it has put you at risk of being lynched. If you're scum, it makes sense to want to make people waste their time. Explain your motivation. Explain it already! @Rad Was this a response to my case on you?
It was a response to your last point about me. Also I had been wondering when I would bring that up again, as I said I would, and this seemed like a good time.
I've now responded to your 180 point as well. I'll look into responding to the other points but I may or may not get to them tonight (going out in a few). You seemed to think your 180 point was most valid so I wanted to make sure I responded to it. I responded to your last point first because it's the one that's most frustrating to me at the moment, due to you never answering my question and insistence on me giving you a percentage.
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On November 04 2012 09:23 debears wrote:@Rad When saying how much I "attacked" Obzy, did you notice this at the end of my original post about him? That seems, if anything, like the rebuttal to any of your me attacking obsy accusations. I still find it very odd that you would miss that part, even with confirmation bias
Town motivation: urge people to get help from their coach so they play the game better.
Scum motivation: use demeaning words like useless and worthless and then tell them they should go talk to their coach so they think they're bad at the game
That piece is a null tell so don't use it as a defense on you being an anti-town with your attacks.
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On November 04 2012 08:58 debears wrote:@RadHow about you read before jumping on me Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:13 debears wrote:
[quote]
How much fluff do you actually see in my filter?
Quote it and put it in a spoiler. Then take my quotes that look like they are accomplishing something. and put them in another spoiler. I want to see how much you think his fluff argument holds true. That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:46 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:
[quote]
Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head Well I'm glad you cleared that up. Anyway, you want your number so badly? 35% fluff. Can we move on now? I feel like we reversed 12 hours and we're talking about Cheese's joke. Ok. Finally. I have 65% content in a large filter according to you, which arguably is more contribution to the thread than most. This is why the fluff argument is invalid. See my point Rad? That is all. Now, scumhunting coming
You think I missed this before, but I didn't. It's an invalid point for me. I don't care how much fluff/content you have. It hasn't been a concern of mine. My concern was that there's no town motivation to make another person waste time going through your posts. Only scum motivation.
You're claiming there's a town motivation to help point out that your 65% is useful content, but who the hell cares? The fluff argument wasn't going anywhere, it didn't have any potential to get you lynched at that point. You wanted alsn to spend his time reading through your filters, separating fluff from good content and coming up with a percentage just so you could make that point?! If you're town, why would you want that instead of him focusing on hunting down scum? If you're scum, I GET IT. You wanted him to waste his time.
You could have just as easily come out and said it if you really thought it defended you against his fluff argument.
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On November 04 2012 09:57 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 09:44 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 08:58 debears wrote:@RadHow about you read before jumping on me On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:
[quote]
Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head On November 04 2012 02:46 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:
[quote]
Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff
Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head Well I'm glad you cleared that up. Anyway, you want your number so badly? 35% fluff. Can we move on now? I feel like we reversed 12 hours and we're talking about Cheese's joke. Ok. Finally. I have 65% content in a large filter according to you, which arguably is more contribution to the thread than most. This is why the fluff argument is invalid. See my point Rad? That is all. Now, scumhunting coming You think I missed this before, but I didn't. It's an invalid point for me. I don't care how much fluff/content you have. It hasn't been a concern of mine. My concern was that there's no town motivation to make another person waste time going through your posts. Only scum motivation. You're claiming there's a town motivation to help point out that your 65% is useful content, but who the hell cares? The fluff argument wasn't going anywhere, it didn't have any potential to get you lynched at that point. You wanted alsn to spend his time reading through your filters, separating fluff from good content and coming up with a percentage just so you could make that point?! If you're town, why would you want that instead of him focusing on hunting down scum? If you're scum, I GET IT. You wanted him to waste his time. You could have just as easily come out and said it if you really thought it defended you against his fluff argument. When someone discredits me for a bullshit reason, I will defend myself and straighten the point. You say the fluff argument wasn't going anywhere, except that others like Alsn agreed with it. CC went so far to apologize about his fluff. Sylver's argument convinced enough people at that point that I needed to address it.
Address it, yes, of course, but don't ask someone to go through your entire filter and sort it by fluff and non fluff. That's a huge waste if time if you're town. Again, if you're not, sure, you should try to get people to do that cause wow what a waste of time that would be.
I'm heading out for the night. I might post more later tonight or might not until tomorrow. I should be around a lot of the day tomorrow like I was today.
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Late night for me last night, I've skimmed over everything but am now going to go back and really read what I've missed and try to process it all. No one seems concerned with with debear's case on me anymore so if that's the case, I'm going to not focus on defending myself there anymore. If someone still has concerns, please let me know and I'll continue with that, otherwise I see no need.
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@djo
What slip? Be specific, there's a lot to keep track of here.
Also, don't martyr yourself. TBH that comes across as scummy as hell to me. If you're town, SURVIVE. Your survival would be of more benefit than whatever information you think your death would give, especially since we're just at d1 and everyone's just shooting around in the dark at the moment.
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On November 05 2012 01:24 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:16 Rad wrote:
@djo
What slip? Be specific, there's a lot to keep track of here.
Also, don't martyr yourself. TBH that comes across as scummy as hell to me. If you're town, SURVIVE. Your survival would be of more benefit than whatever information you think your death would give, especially since we're just at d1 and everyone's just shooting around in the dark at the moment. @ RadI would imagine that it comes across as scummy but I want to know who is going to push for my lynch I was very close to have found the whole scumteam last game when I died. This is my motivation to propose myself as a possible lynch candidate. Here is the slip Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:On November 04 2012 16:27 sylverfyre wrote:
@Obzy - I made a pressure vote. Debears responded to it. We went back and forth at each other for a while. When we started to get into a loop of OMGUS, I was starting to feel like it was a waste of time and space that wasn't bringing a lot to the town, I let the vote drop. Scum love nothing more than when two townies are at each others throats constantly without looking at other people.
I'm not going to random vote first half of day 1 and follow it through all the way to lynchtime unless my target makes some SERIOUS scumtells under pressure. While debears doesn't exactly look pristine, I need to look at (and scumhunt sniff) more than 1 person on day 1. @ sylverSo are you saying that debears is a townie ? Slipping again ? I'm not sure what you want to say by "he doesn't exactly look pristine". Could you elaborate ?
@Djodref apperently you don't understand that if you state that something's a trap, it's no longer a trap. This kind of super odd reasoning is becoming pretty regular from you. It's the same reason why you wouldn't necessarily want to tell someone your pressure vote is a pressure vote (pointing back to your issue with sylver's vote from earlier), and I can't imagine why you'd want to tell people about your trap. Has anyone ever fallen into a trap they knew of? If you can't place your trap without explaining it, maybe you should think of a different idea instead...
Anyway, all I get from your "trap" is that you want to be considered super townie enough to take one for town. This could be scum motivated for normal people (though even then, a really stupid scum move I'd think). However, with how poorly we all judged you last game, I can see that as you attempting something different to gain trust because you actually don't know how to naturally gain trust. So, null tell for me in the end, I guess...
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@sylver djo's in korea I think?
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EPT
