EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 3
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Rad, is that enough of an answer for you? As in, may I leave you two alone now without having to sweep the floor of broken bottles tomorrow? | ||
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First of all I'd like to address the topic which was at hand when I left, Rad v debears. I think debears' case did have some merit, particularly that it was pretty weird how Rad changed his mind. However, after reading Rad's responses he seems honest to me about his reasons. I don't particularly agree that he must have gotten "outside" help for changing his mind like that, his explanation that he revisited debears' comments feel just as likely, so pretty much the whole case seems like a null tell to me. However, I'd like to address sylver by saying that I most certainly did not stop suspecting debears after the initial lie argument as the game started. In fact, I made a FoS based on his scum meta from last game, as well as what I considered to be scummy behaviour from debears. Then I kept grilling him because I thought he wasn't making much sense from a town point of view. The only reason I'm not prepared to lynch him straight up is because while he has said some scummy things, he has also demonstrated(at least to me) a lot of possible town mentality in his activity and willingness to not shy away from the controversial issues. Like I said before, either very strongly town, or he's trying his utmost to stay consistent, something which should be easily catchable later in the game once we get some information on people's alignments. What worries me however, is the fact that the "things I wanted to let develop" which I mentioned before going to sleep was that I wanted to see how sylver's and Clarity's continued play would look like. I had suspicions of my own against clarity for basically not taking any position whatsoever except to vote someone based on lurker policy. Yes, I can see the motivations for it being a pressure vote, but in context with the rest of his behaviour(weakly committing to pretty much everything, or committing to pretty much nothing) I find that scummy indeed. My conundrum at this time is that both of the people I had pegged as the most scummy prior to this(debears, Djod) are suspecting him. That being said, at the very least I have a good idea of what I need to be looking at today. Clarity, Djod, debears. I'm also going to look into sylver because I had some suspicions against him before I went to sleep but I must have missed whether or not he contradicted or reinforced those suspicions of mine when I just read through the thread. | ||
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On November 05 2012 00:42 da0ud wrote: da0ud, I know you got lynched early in the last game, but Djod consistently showed up a couple of hours before lynch last game. If he doesn't this game then I'd say we have something to worry about, but right now I'm more inclined to actually look at what he is saying in his case more than why he is away.I am a bit concerned that Djo living in Korea (so almost same timezone as I) has disappeared all afternoon. He is not 100% clean himself and has started lurking. It is now 1.40am in korea and knowing tomorrow is monday I doubt he will contribute till 4.30am. @ Djo : Are you sill arround or will you only be able to catch-up with the thread tomorrow morning right before lynch ? If things happen during the night in Asia, are you comfortable with keeping your vote on Clarity ? | ||
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On November 05 2012 01:11 Djodref wrote: This fixation on supposed slips is making me seriously pissed. The fact that you don't even realise that if anyone has made a slip, it's you with your "vote pressure" slip yet you go along and accuse others for slipping?I would like sylver to be considered as a lynch candidate for today as well. I have no problem with me being also a candidate (even if I would have preferred to address the possible cases against me not while waking up) because being mislynched last game allowed me to clearly see who was pushing me for bad reasons. I'm confident that you could recognize my innocence this time  And why nobody has yet commented on the newest slip from sylver ? Also, would you make up your mind? You want yourself and sylver as lynch candidates too? Why so sylver gets lynched and you won't need to be associated with causing the lynch on Clarity? Do you know that Clarity is town? Look how easy it is to make up slips. It's ridiculous how much attention they seem to be getting. The worst part is that once you accuse someone, anything they say to defend themselves is basically WIFOM. | ||
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That being said, rest assured that I'll be looking at his case in great detail. I'm holding off on making a judgement right now because I actually have a slight town read on him so far and I think you are both exaggerating the importance of your cases against him. Particularly the fact that debears is basing his case in large part on meta on a player who has played 24 hours total of mafia before being modkilled. Or that you seem to be accusing him of blending in, yet nothing he has really said to my eyes jumps out as if he was trying to push a scum agenda. If his only crime was blending in, who are you to say he's blending in on purpose? Sure, if he later jumps in and votes with bad reasoning, I'll hold it against him, but right now I find both of your cases weak. I'll hold off on elaborating further until he actually shows up however as I don't want to give him any unnecessary help. | ||
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On November 05 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote: Back sorry, was preparing dinner. Yes, at this point, either one of you or debears, still deciding on which one though. Expect a commitment from me sometime soon.@ Alsn Do you have a better lynch candidate for today by the way ? | ||
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My case for why I think debears is scum. His reaction's so far to pressure. When I made my introductory post, I merely wanted to point out that he was being a little bit unfair in using skewed statistics to make us all forgive him if he should happen to be away. However, he instantly throws a FoS at me in order to discredit me instead of calmly explaining how I was wrong. Looking at his behaviour in XXVIII when he was town, the main reason I never got completely convinced he was scum was because he kept his cool and calmly explained why Z-BosoN was using faulty logic instead of going crazy about it. Later, when sylver votes him for what he later explains is a strong FoS, he basically goes completely OMGUS on sylver instead of again, calmly explaining why sylver is wrong, accusing him of "bullshit reasoning"(see this post at the end. Unless debears has completely changed his town meta I don't see how I can view this behaviour as town debears. Then there's his attitude towards Obzy, saying he's posting useless and worthless content. It's the exact same strategy he used in XXIX to discredit Inig, a timid beginner townie. Sure, you told him to get coaching, but how does that one line make up for saying his content is useless and worthless? In fact, it's more of the same from debears, seeing as Obzy was pointing fingers at debears it's yet more flaming in order to discredit someone who is suspicious of him. His voting pattern so far He voted for da0ud "just so lurkers know that he's serious". This is definitely something which I can't blame him for, since da0ud did indeed start posting shortly thereafter. But then he goes on to OMGUS vote sylver, maintaining for a very long time that sylver had "bullshit reasons" for voting him. Yet all is forgiven as soon as sylver backs off? No, actually not, he has kept criticising sylver. Interestingly however, he picks Clarity as his next target, a player who I can't yet see is behaving all that scummy. A paragon of town, definitely not, but probable scum? I don't think so. Interestingly, he's also sheeping off of Djodref instead of pursuing the scum reads he has shared so far. Largely, I find that the way he votes this game is very similar to the way he voted in XXIX so largely, I'd say this is a meta read more than anything else. However, I'd like to preface this by saying I definitely have concerns with regards to the cases against Clarity. I find that his behaviour overall is pretty null, or maybe even slightly town. But depending on how he actually addresses the cases brought forward thus far, I can definitely see myself changing my mind about him. Because while both of you are correct in criticising him for his actions, I'd just prefer to hear his side of the story first as you're being pretty hyperbolic about how important your points are. So, since I'm not yet convinced enough of Clarity's guilt, as well as the fact that I feel unless we have more than one wagon, it'll be harder to find out much of substance after the vote, I'm voting for my top scum read: ##Vote: debears | ||
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Clarity, if you really want to help town I'd recommend you actually present your case and try to actually make it count. If it turns out that you get mislynched anyway then at the very least we will know that you were sincere all along today. Having minor arguments about why you've not yet presented a case just means that what you really want to say gets pushed further towards lynch, which is bad for town since then we won't have time to judge you properly on your arguments. | ||
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I think the thread so far has demonstrated quite clearly the flaw with your idea that not answering a particular question is inherently scummy. Even if we assume that only the scum have refused to answer your question(unlikely, from where I'm sitting) it would mean that at least one townie is among that group. I'd actually say his unwillingness to push through with his tactic and use the lack of answers as proof for a case at the very most is a null tell. The idea that him going back on a tactic when it's seemingly very ineffective is a scum tell is beyond me, which is part of the reason why I'm still very suspicious of debears. Inconsistency isn't necessarily a scum trait, as we've seen again and again in the newbie games. | ||
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