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On November 03 2012 13:47 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:42 Rad wrote:
@Clarity
That's a great point and I want to reemphasize it.
@Obzy
If you're town, please disregard any suggestions about you being useless so far. Just keep attempting to be useful and you'll get the hang of it. You don't have to post as much as debears, djo, or even myself to be useful so don't get discouraged. However, don't hold back and give your input on things when you have input as it'll be helpful to town if we get some more input from you.
Also I see debears has directed some questions at you so here's a chance to open up a bit. Yeah. That case is in no way saying omg he's scum. It's more of light pressure to get him to state some views, be more active in this. However, Rad, what I would like to know is that, although you are obviously following the thread in the shadows, you aren't posting to much. Why is that?
To quote myself:
On November 03 2012 10:23 Rad wrote:
I will be pretty active this weekend, but I'm also a huge sc2 fan and mlg will be taking most of my attention. Definitely going to be reading/thinking/posting on downtime and/or boring matchups.
I don't see much value in chiming in on every little argument. When I have a good read on something being a bad argument, I'll chime in and try to stop it (as I have been doing), or if it's a good argument, I'll try to help push it (not many of these so far, but some I'm letting go because conversation is good). I feel I've contributed a good amount so far and with it being 1am here, I'm trying to enjoy my night as well as contribute here and there.
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On November 03 2012 14:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:51 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese
Regarding your pokemon joke explanation, I didn't like how you focused on the content instead of precising what were your motivations for this joke at that time. It would be acceptable if you just told me that it was genuine or an attempt to frame me (it occurred during last game after all).
Nevertheless, I would agree that we should drop this discussion. But you are still on my radar. I made this exact mistake last game as scum, "Djo is not off the hook" thing. He wants to ensure that his suspicions for me are known. As town, he would not have to make this statement because he would have faith that we already know that.
I'd like to point out that throughout the last newbie game, I kept pointing out that djo was still on my radar. I don't consider this a scum tell. Perhaps bad town, perhaps not, but certainly not necessarily scum tell (at least at this level, no idea if it is at a higher level). I considered it a "keep the pressure on" type move last game.
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On November 03 2012 14:41 Obzy wrote:
I'm most interested in da0ud and sylver, just because they haven't said anything at all. Not necessarily implying they are scum, just that non-posting is absolutely impossible to read.
Just wanted to point out real quick, Obzy, that this is the reason we were pushing the lurker policy lynch earlier. Hopefully you understand it a bit better now, when people lurk hardcore it's impossible to get a good read on them and thus becomes a coin flip for town (or even heavily distracting real cases, which can be even worse).
I don't think we'll have an issue though. We have a long time before lynch and I think both will come through with some useful contributions (considering how last game went). If the issue remains, we lynch (scum or useless townie, both reasonable lynches at d1).
And as I refresh before I post, there's sylver!
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@Obzy
If you have time, check our last game (newbie XXIX) and watch debears d1. He ends up scum in that game, but he's "town leader" pretty much the whole game due to his d1 activities (very aggressive, very townie-like in that he's creating discussion). That probably has some influence on sylver's vote.
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@Obzy
Tomorrow and Sunday I will be trying to figure out some sort of a case for sure. I made a lot of terrible reads my first game (newbie XXIX) that lead to dead townies, so I'm going to be trying to approach it differently this time (more like how I was approaching the game near end of XXIX, not that I expect you to know what I mean by that, but everyone else in this game might understand the differences).
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On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX.
@ Rad
Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend?
I felt a bit of inig coming through in obzy. Overwhelmed, confused, but potentially useful to town. I didn't want to see him shy away due to how fast the conversations were coming and going here. I wanted him to open up and let his thoughts be known.
Yes, I'll be watching MLG pretty much every minute it's on until it's done on Sunday. I do that for every MLG I get a chance to watch. My fiance is working all day today so all I got is MLG and this newbie mafia to pay attention to :D Might play a game here and there (ns2), but I expect a lot of my time today to be dedicated towards this game while watching MLG.
As for my being more careful, it's based strictly on how I changed over the course of last game. I based my cases on a lot of stupid things and confirmation bias but couldn't ever realize it until after townies started flipping when I was sure they were scum. I want to avoid that this time and at least have some more solid reasoning when I decide to center in on someone.
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On November 04 2012 00:03 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 23:48 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 23:44 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 23:33 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 20:58 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 10:21 debears wrote:
@obsy
Its mafia favored compared to the last setup. Only 9 players means a quicker game. A quicker game is better foe mafia since they don't have to fake their townieness for so long.
Also look at the roles like medic. Medic can't target the same person twice (was it also that he can't target himself? I'm on my phone and i really don't want to check @ debearsSo, are you saying that the fact that we have a medic which cannot target the same person twice is such a big imbalance that this game is obviously mafia favored or are you role-fishing ? I'm not sure why you mention this in this post, could you elaborate ? Idk how you get that I'm role fishing from that. 1) I talked about the speed of the game and number of players being mafia favored 2) Combined with the roles setup, the game is pretty mafia favored imo How do you get that I'm role fishing for that when I in no way ask anyone if they are blue? @ debearsMaybe you were waiting for a possible medic to confirm you the fact that he cannot heal himself. I would expect a medic to carefully read his role's rules and I'm expecting you to know that medics usually cannot heal themselves. But you are asking this question nevertheless. I'm agreeing that the speed of this game is benefit the mafia but I don't see why the role setup would be mafia favored. It is only because the medic cannot heal the same person twice ? That, with no vig, no vet, yet the Mafia still have the same power roles for possiblities, except the godfather. Oh, and roleblocks aren't notified. Mainly it's the number of players and speed of the game combined with only having 2 mafia @ debearsI think that cop and jailkeeper are powerful roles, we might not have both of them though. Vig is not so good in newbie games (could you confirm this one, Rad?). Please also note that a framer couldn't use his power on his mafia partner. Anyway, I don't think the setup is imbalanced from a role point of view and I was surprised that you were only mentioning the medic. I'm not totally satisfied with your explanations but it was a minor thing. I'm more interested in sylverfire and daoud right now. Can the framer frame himself ?
Regarding your bolded question to me, what do you want me to confirm? Define "good." Good for town winning or good for me having a blast? Cause I had a blast, even though I got the wrong shot, it was so fun trying to figure out who to use it on, and I submitted the kill request the very last second I could (probably why the night post took longer, I bet thrawn had to rewrite it). Had I gotten a scum with the shot, who knows what that would have done to me, hell it might have pushed my confirmation bias even further. Certainly I would have centered in on cheese 100% if kush flipped scum that game.
Anyway, "good for town"? I have no idea. Good for getting me super interested last game? You bet. Also, it taught me some lessons I would not have learned otherwise.
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On November 04 2012 00:20 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:12 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 00:03 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 23:48 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 23:44 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 23:33 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 20:58 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 10:21 debears wrote:
@obsy
Its mafia favored compared to the last setup. Only 9 players means a quicker game. A quicker game is better foe mafia since they don't have to fake their townieness for so long.
Also look at the roles like medic. Medic can't target the same person twice (was it also that he can't target himself? I'm on my phone and i really don't want to check @ debearsSo, are you saying that the fact that we have a medic which cannot target the same person twice is such a big imbalance that this game is obviously mafia favored or are you role-fishing ? I'm not sure why you mention this in this post, could you elaborate ? Idk how you get that I'm role fishing from that. 1) I talked about the speed of the game and number of players being mafia favored 2) Combined with the roles setup, the game is pretty mafia favored imo How do you get that I'm role fishing for that when I in no way ask anyone if they are blue? @ debearsMaybe you were waiting for a possible medic to confirm you the fact that he cannot heal himself. I would expect a medic to carefully read his role's rules and I'm expecting you to know that medics usually cannot heal themselves. But you are asking this question nevertheless. I'm agreeing that the speed of this game is benefit the mafia but I don't see why the role setup would be mafia favored. It is only because the medic cannot heal the same person twice ? That, with no vig, no vet, yet the Mafia still have the same power roles for possiblities, except the godfather. Oh, and roleblocks aren't notified. Mainly it's the number of players and speed of the game combined with only having 2 mafia @ debearsI think that cop and jailkeeper are powerful roles, we might not have both of them though. Vig is not so good in newbie games (could you confirm this one, Rad?). Please also note that a framer couldn't use his power on his mafia partner. Anyway, I don't think the setup is imbalanced from a role point of view and I was surprised that you were only mentioning the medic. I'm not totally satisfied with your explanations but it was a minor thing. I'm more interested in sylverfire and daoud right now. Can the framer frame himself ? Regarding your bolded question to me, what do you want me to confirm? Define "good." Good for town winning or good for me having a blast? Cause I had a blast, even though I got the wrong shot, it was so fun trying to figure out who to use it on, and I submitted the kill request the very last second I could (probably why the night post took longer, I bet thrawn had to rewrite it). Had I gotten a scum with the shot, who knows what that would have done to me, hell it might have pushed my confirmation bias even further. Certainly I would have centered in on cheese 100% if kush flipped scum that game. Anyway, "good for town"? I have no idea. Good for getting me super interested last game? You bet. Also, it taught me some lessons I would not have learned otherwise. @ RadOf course I was meaning good for town  The risk of having of town player killed by a vigilante is greater in newbie games so I don't think this role really benefits the town. I wanted to take last game as an example so that's why I was mentioning you. Anyway, let's drop this right now and focus and more important matters. I'm urging you to answer debears and give your input on the latest events in the thread
@Djo
I intend to answer debears. It's a question that requires some research and thought.
Let's try to make this game cleaner in terms of the filters. Give people time to answer questions rather than restate that a question is waiting to be answered. It's of no use to town. If you find someone has skipped answering a question for a long period of time, that's when you can jump in and point it out.
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On November 04 2012 00:10 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:06 Rad wrote:On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX.
@ Rad
Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend?
I felt a bit of inig coming through in obzy. Overwhelmed, confused, but potentially useful to town. I didn't want to see him shy away due to how fast the conversations were coming and going here. I wanted him to open up and let his thoughts be known. Yes, I'll be watching MLG pretty much every minute it's on until it's done on Sunday. I do that for every MLG I get a chance to watch. My fiance is working all day today so all I got is MLG and this newbie mafia to pay attention to :D Might play a game here and there (ns2), but I expect a lot of my time today to be dedicated towards this game while watching MLG. As for my being more careful, it's based strictly on how I changed over the course of last game. I based my cases on a lot of stupid things and confirmation bias but couldn't ever realize it until after townies started flipping when I was sure they were scum. I want to avoid that this time and at least have some more solid reasoning when I decide to center in on someone. Rad, alot of early d1 cases will end up being stupid in hindsight. Hapa, a good player, even stated so in GSL III I believe. That doesn't excuse you from scumhunting. I understand getting Obsy to post to avoid having him lurk, but you seemed too focused on it. What are your thoughts on Dau0d/syler/Djo from the last couple of pages?
I haven't said I don't plan on scumhunting. What gives you that impression? You're coming to a false conclusion on what I've been talking about.
Concerning obzy, what do you mean I seemed too focused on it? I tried to help him understand my stance on lurkers because he had some issues with it. Then I had to jump in and make sure he didn't get super demotivated because YOU were calling his posts useless and worthless. What does a town want a newbie town to do? Learn how to play the game and be useful to town. What does a scum want a newbie town to do? Feel scared at the thought of being terrible at the game, back off, say nothing out of fear. How exactly are you helping town by talking shit to the new guy at the beginning of d1?
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I feel I need to go further into the Obzy post by debears because it is absolute trash (see some notes in bold followed by discussion of them)
On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote:On Obsy
Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 10:32 Obzy wrote:
Wouldn't making a lurker-lynch policy be somewhat counterproductive? Like - lynching lurkers, that sounds smart. But if it's "policy", then everyone knows not to lurk - so there wouldn't be a lynch on lurkers - and if there was, why the heck would mafia be lurking? It's more like lynching the people with the least time, as long as everybody is at least somewhat active.
If that makes any sense ._.; Obsy has been around the thread. What I have found is that he seems to be actively lurking. Notice above post. Asking a pretty much useless question. It's newbie town/scum tell, so it's a null tell (*ONE)Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 10:36 Obzy wrote:
Right - no; I agree with that - I guess I was caught on the wording. Describing it as a policy lynch made it sound like there wouldn't be much discussion on the matter which sounded counterproductive. He has a few one-liners like the above. Mostly, his posts do not take a strong stance and his opinions seem to be easily swayed. Again newbie town/scum tell. (*TWO)Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 10:36 Obzy wrote:
Sheesh this thread moves fast I need to start quoting o_o; I write a post and there's 3 replies above me. I don't like this post. At all. Trying to come up with excuses to not be posting. Sure the thread is moving pretty decently (score one for town), but it's nothing huge and pretty easy to follow so far imo. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 10:40 Obzy wrote:
In that case, sounds good. I agree. Regarding Alsn's post... It kinda looks like he's responding like that just cause you said pulling an Alsn? I guess? Or trying to goad some sort of discussion. Here he acts confused. He asks questions without answering them himself or even really attempting to answer them himself. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 11:17 Obzy wrote:@debears - Your reaction really does seem out of place, when I'm rereading. I've been refreshing constantly, trying to read everything and make a useful post, but nothing really seemed like it would contribute to a discussion, and I don't want to have pointless posts for the sake of "being active". Contributing, not spamming. Upon looking at it that way, your posts and being interested in Alsn's word choice is surprisingly defensive. Given that there wasn't really any way for other players to pop their heads in and comment without semi-defusing the situation saying "it wasn't that big of a deal", why hold onto it? Quite specifically, On November 03 2012 10:35 debears wrote:
Anyways what's your guys thoughts on alsns post? - why ask something like that? I didn't really think it worth paying any mind to, but you kept going on it. (And now, just above, you're asking djo why he didn't get involved in your argument - I didn't want to get involved either, it seemed largely purposeless.) jesus i type this post, read for spelling mistakes, reopen a new browser to make sure i'm not missing some sort of new information and fucking blammo like 5 posts Who have a tough time contributing early? Usually scum because 1) They are afraid to post and put themselves out there since they are guilty and know so 2) They know the players they are accusing are town and they can't actually find real evidence to use However, I admit this is also a newbie town trait. (*THREE)Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:34 Obzy wrote:
I don't think that getting a read off of whether or not Cheese has a joking tone or not really means anything at all. At least, the fact that he's aware of it means that he could manipulate it either way. Honestly, this post is just absolutely worthless. It has no actual input. Says nothing about the current happenings of the thread. Summary: Obsy has been actively lurking and blending inHis posts are indicative of newbie town/scum however they are looking slightly scummy at this point (*WHAT?)@Obsy1) Defend yourself against these points 2) Go ask for some coaching help (It'll help you improve more quickly)
Of debear's 5 points on Obzy, 3 of them he admits could be newbie town (so null read), and 2 of them he comes to no conclusion. Then he SOMEHOW suddenly comes to the conclusion that obzy's looking slightly scummy?
WHAT?
Also, at the point of your post, it's the beginning hours of d1. Seriously, active lurking and blending concerns already? If he's newbie town, he has no fucking idea what he's supposed to do at this point. Yet debears is throwing out serious concerns as if they're legitimate at that point in the game.
Not only does this set of "evidence" of obzy's "slight scuminess" not actually, at any point, suggest scum over newbie town, but it directly attacks obzy's motivation and confidence. What better way to shut down a newbie town than to attempt to trash him from the start?
On November 04 2012 00:54 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:46 Rad wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 00:10 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 00:06 Rad wrote:On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX.
@ Rad
Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend?
I felt a bit of inig coming through in obzy. Overwhelmed, confused, but potentially useful to town. I didn't want to see him shy away due to how fast the conversations were coming and going here. I wanted him to open up and let his thoughts be known. Yes, I'll be watching MLG pretty much every minute it's on until it's done on Sunday. I do that for every MLG I get a chance to watch. My fiance is working all day today so all I got is MLG and this newbie mafia to pay attention to :D Might play a game here and there (ns2), but I expect a lot of my time today to be dedicated towards this game while watching MLG. As for my being more careful, it's based strictly on how I changed over the course of last game. I based my cases on a lot of stupid things and confirmation bias but couldn't ever realize it until after townies started flipping when I was sure they were scum. I want to avoid that this time and at least have some more solid reasoning when I decide to center in on someone. Rad, alot of early d1 cases will end up being stupid in hindsight. Hapa, a good player, even stated so in GSL III I believe. That doesn't excuse you from scumhunting. I understand getting Obsy to post to avoid having him lurk, but you seemed too focused on it. What are your thoughts on Dau0d/syler/Djo from the last couple of pages? I haven't said I don't plan on scumhunting. What gives you that impression? You're coming to a false conclusion on what I've been talking about. Concerning obzy, what do you mean I seemed too focused on it? I tried to help him understand my stance on lurkers because he had some issues with it. Then I had to jump in and make sure he didn't get super demotivated because YOU were calling his posts useless and worthless. What does a town want a newbie town to do? Learn how to play the game and be useful to town. What does a scum want a newbie town to do? Feel scared at the thought of being terrible at the game, back off, say nothing out of fear. How exactly are you helping town by talking shit to the new guy at the beginning of d1? You are way overblowing my post on obsy. 1) I only said useless, not worthless. Stop putting words in my mouth 2) Yeah it's cool to encourage him, but you have to still scumhunt 3) You said that you were going to make a case later today and be more passive. How is that case going to come about if you aren't actively trying to find scum in the thread? I was in no way talking shit to him. I was stating my views on him. 1 sentence and 1 word in that sentence is hardly talking shit. In no way was it an, 'OH HES DEFINITELY SCUM GUYS'. It was a "you're posts are slightly scummy, defend yourself and contribute". Why are you overblowing my post?
#1 oh, really?:
On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:34 Obzy wrote:
I don't think that getting a read off of whether or not Cheese has a joking tone or not really means anything at all. At least, the fact that he's aware of it means that he could manipulate it either way. Honestly, this post is just absolutely worthless. It has no actual input. Says nothing about the current happenings of the thread.
#2 & #3 I'm scumhunting, right now, like I said I would
You're right, you weren't saying OH HES DEFINITELY SCUM GUYS. You came to a stupid conclusion that he's slightly scummy based on a bunch of null tells. More importantly, you were trying to shut him down from the beginning. What town motivation is there to make the new guy feel useless and worthless? None. It's a scum motivation.
FoS debears
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On November 04 2012 01:16 debears wrote:
@Rad
I concede on the worthless point.
Also, there are two ways of encouraging newbies to post
1) Pressure
2) Kindness
I chose 1 initially. Notice my reaction after Obsy responds. Would you say that is talking shit to him?
Pressure's fine with me. That wasn't pressure though. That was an attack on his ego and the only motivation I can see for it is to shut him down fast and create a lurker out of him (which, as you know, many of us would want to lynch).
What reaction of yours to his response are you talking about? All I see is "So what is your exact read on me? Scum, slightly scum, null, slightly town, or town?" but that's just a question, not motivational or de-motivational.
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On November 04 2012 01:31 debears wrote:@RadA little bit of context for the useless and worthless words. They were used to group 3 players, not just obsy Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:28 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:26 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:22 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:11 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay re-reading your post you're saying we shouldn't focus on one/two people, instead considering everyone and not consolidate on a lynch? @ ClarityExactly, I think you everyone should just vote for his top scumread while giving enough reason to do so and then we start again from there and see who is likely to be lynched, be it 2 or 3 players. I think it's the best way to use plurality lynch. Considering only 2 possibilities narrows the discussion and allows mafia players to have some excuse to lynch town (cf Cheese last game lynching daoud in the daoud/ini match-up). The downfall is that the end of the day could be a bit messy. seriously.....why are we having to explain this? 1) Scumhunt 2) Vote for your top scumread 3) When the voting comes down to 2 candidates and lynch is near, pick one of two said candidates and give reasoning why you're voting them Is that clear enough for all of you to understand? Please stop talking about policy @ debearsMy point is that it would benefit us to consider more than 2 candidates for the lynch. Anyway it's too late to discuss about it now, I was just answering Clarity's question about it. By the way it's not policy, it's lynch mechanics  More semantics, anyways it's useless. What do you think of Obsy's, Dau0d's, and Sylver's epic uselessness so far? Also, why didn't I bash him for being general if I'm so set on shutting him out? Why did I ask a very specific question that is easy to answer in response?
So you're saying you like to use the word useless, whether it's against a complete newbie or some other people who aren't inputing a whole lot at that point. Stop that shit. It's a de-motivational concept that's anti-town. It might be useful later in the game, but no one has proven themselves to be useless this early in the game.
Why didn't you bash him for being general? Who knows. WIFOM either way if I try to figure that out.
Why did you ask a very specific question that is easy to answer? Again, can't answer that without WIFOM. Maybe you wanted to spark up some discussion from him (town) or maybe you just want to look like you're being useful by giving questions that will certainly be answered (scum).
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On November 04 2012 01:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 01:20 Djodref wrote:
@ sylverfire
I don't know debears alignment. I'm already saying it in the post where I vote against you.
I think town players should not use their vote to cast suspicion upon someone. Town players should build cases to convince everybody to lynch the player they find the most suspicious.
You have the right to be suspicious of debears. But I think you have to bring better reasons to persuade us to do so. If you think that casting suspicion upon him is enough and expect other players to build a case against debears for you, then I would say that you are mafia.
Why did you use the word townies instead of players ?
So, you say that town players shouldn't vote as a pressure move / attract suspicion to someone? You used your vote last game on Inig as vote pressure: Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 09:16 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 08:34 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Right now I dont have any scum reads, only town reads which Ive already said in earlier posts. So I would lynch one of the lurkers probably. Also, Djo you seem to be the only one really going after me, so while your asking everyone what they think of me, you should answer your own question. what you you think of me?
-Should be back to post something in around 6-7 hours. I have already my eyes on you and I think that your posts lack content and scumhunting. You are my top scumread right now. Let's assume that the lurkers are going to get modkill today, who would you like to lynch ? Vote-pressuring you ## Vote Inig Same with Nack: Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 22:44 Djodref wrote:
We still have no insight from Nackht at all. He has only said that he was sure that Kush was scum.
I'm not sure about Cheese anymore. I'm null on him right now. His case shows good scumhunting efforts, even if they go in the wrong direction. Him using a "djo attempt to discredit me" paragraph in his case is a towntell for me because it shows that he has natural sense of innocence (in opposition of the usual self-culpability). If he still believes I am scum after my answers to his case, I want him to look for my potential scumbuddies. No by association by the way because I am town and anyway you should wait for me to flip to start this kind of thing.
I want dandel to decide if I am scum or SK and bring consequent proofs to his case.
I'm very very wary of Nackht. He has given us nothing (expect him being sure that Kush was scum) so far and I don't understand why a town replacement would be retaining info like he does. The other thing speaking against him is that I don't have a strong scumread at the moment and it makes the probability for the lurkers to be mafia higher. So I hope that we have a modkill on Roco today.
I'm going to vote pressure him to make nackht talk. Keeping this vote on him until he gives us a complete assessment of what is going on here according to him. He promised it but he has just given us a "lol" so far.
##Vote nackhtjogger
You obviously believe in vote pressure to cast suspicion from a townie perspective.
This is a great catch, cheese. It's pretty damning, but to be honest, djo is someone I can see innocently contradicting himself like this, so I don't know what to think about it in the end. Remember nack's take on djo last game:
On October 30 2012 06:24 nackhtjogger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 05:55 Rad wrote:On October 30 2012 05:50 nackhtjogger wrote:
Hey, I'm not saying Djo isn't scum. But if he is he's fucking Keyzer Soze. I say we lynch Cheesecake the obv scum before we try to shoot the devil in the back Why do you think he's such an amazing scum if he ends up being one? He's the main reason you have 61 pages to read over. Do you think he's really been that helpful to town so far? We constantly keep catching him with useless comments, wifom, bs. Hell he even admits that he feels he looks scum. I can't see a good reason not to lynch him right now. Go ahead, I'm actually quite curious. But be weary of the fact that this guy had this to say pre-game: Take a look at his pre-game post: Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 12:07 Djodref wrote:
Well, in fact, I have considered all the possible configurations and I think it is for the best
Djo town / Debears town
I'm gonna end up tunneling you for stupid WIFOM reasons
Djo town / Debears town
I'm getting lucky and I lynch you for stupid WIFOM reasons
Djo scum / Debears town
According to my town meta, I tunnel you for stupid WIFOM reasons
Djo scum / Debears scum
I attempt to bus you using stupid WIFOM reasons
Djo town / Debears town two times Imo this and the post about rocco that I've lol-ed about makes him unslippable, or rather his slips are not to be taken seriously. If he can fake being this clumsy guy who has the balls to purposefully talk so much with the specific intent of rendering the thread unreadable than I think he's a good mafia player with an imba tactic. He just happened to slip up too much this game.
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@debears
At one point in last game, djo said something like "debears, you know my scum play is better than this!" Think it was right before he was lynched. What's your take on djo's past scum game and his play this game?
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On November 04 2012 02:03 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:01 Rad wrote:
@debears
At one point in last game, djo said something like "debears, you know my scum play is better than this!" Think it was right before he was lynched. What's your take on djo's past scum game and his play this game? I don't really want to read much into his past scum game or his first town game, besides his general personality. HIs last game was much more indicative of how I believe he will play from now on. And I do think he is acting different off the top of my head. I'll have to research though before I can say definitively.
I only bring it up at this point because you were suggesting a difference between last game (town) and this game (unknown). I feel like he's pretty confident in his scum play due to his claim about it last game. I think you could bring in some interesting insight on that point since you're the one he made that final appeal to before his lynching.
His last game was, well, pretty terrible yeah? If he's town this game, I'd think he'd want to try to take things a bit differently because he even admitted last game that he thought he was scummy, and didn't really blame us for the mislynch. Differences between last game and this game probably won't say much because of that.
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On November 04 2012 02:13 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:07 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 02:01 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:58 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:49 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:39 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:13 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 14:44 sylverfyre wrote:
Holy shit, this flavor. What.
If we're gonna lynch a lurker, I'd rather it be early game than late, at least. But I think that we have more... dedication among the townies this game. There wasn't a long wait for the last few signups - everyone here seems pretty pumped to play some mafia seriously. I don't think lurker policy lynch will come up at all. You said townies. That's very different than saying the town or players. Very, very different. It means that you either 1) Think the people being active are townies 2) Know that the people being active are townies There is no other reason for using townies to describe those of us who are showing activeness and dedication Also, you voted me, meaning you voted for someone who you think is townie based on the above. That is scummy as shit debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho. Eh. I think it's very odd to say that townies have good dedication, and I'm one of the guys showing dedication, yet he votes me. Also, what do you think of this part of his post alsn? I kinda expected a bit more... substance in the thread by now. For a guy who hadn't posted anything, why is he calling all the actives out for substance? What good does that do? That part of his post, sure, I agree that it's somewhat a silly statement. It doesn't change the fact that you had been acting very strangely and quite counter-productive to town interests. From where I'm sitting his vote was merited. Especially in light of the fact that he said he meant it as a strong FoS as opposed to a rock solid reason for why you absolutely must be scum. You OMGUSing him most certainly doesn't damage his case. Also, it's unfortunate that I'm indirectly helping him defend himself, but at this point I simply find you/Djod more scummy than him and I figured the chance of him being scum was lower than the risk of you guys getting off the hook if I had stayed silent and just watched. It seems that from the latest developments that other people had the same thought. So, in essence, you think that a vote to tell someone to post less is productive? Being active =/ acting strangely or counter productive I was sparking conversation dude OMGUS is warranted when I find him scummy Again, that isn't even what he said. He said he wanted you to post less fluff and more content. How is that a vote to make you post less? Also, if you're explaining away fluff as sparking conversation I don't know what to say, how is posting a bunch of fluff productive? Either people find you scummy for it(bad if you're town, it lessens your credibility) or people will actually reply with fluff themselves(even worse). How much fluff do you actually see in my filter? Quote it and put it in a spoiler. Then take my quotes that look like they are accomplishing something. and put them in another spoiler. I want to see how much you think his fluff argument holds true.
That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves.
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On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:13 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:07 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 02:01 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:58 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:49 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:39 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:13 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 14:44 sylverfyre wrote:
Holy shit, this flavor. What.
If we're gonna lynch a lurker, I'd rather it be early game than late, at least. But I think that we have more... dedication among the townies this game. There wasn't a long wait for the last few signups - everyone here seems pretty pumped to play some mafia seriously. I don't think lurker policy lynch will come up at all. You said townies. That's very different than saying the town or players. Very, very different. It means that you either 1) Think the people being active are townies 2) Know that the people being active are townies There is no other reason for using townies to describe those of us who are showing activeness and dedication Also, you voted me, meaning you voted for someone who you think is townie based on the above. That is scummy as shit debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho. Eh. I think it's very odd to say that townies have good dedication, and I'm one of the guys showing dedication, yet he votes me. Also, what do you think of this part of his post alsn? I kinda expected a bit more... substance in the thread by now. For a guy who hadn't posted anything, why is he calling all the actives out for substance? What good does that do? That part of his post, sure, I agree that it's somewhat a silly statement. It doesn't change the fact that you had been acting very strangely and quite counter-productive to town interests. From where I'm sitting his vote was merited. Especially in light of the fact that he said he meant it as a strong FoS as opposed to a rock solid reason for why you absolutely must be scum. You OMGUSing him most certainly doesn't damage his case. Also, it's unfortunate that I'm indirectly helping him defend himself, but at this point I simply find you/Djod more scummy than him and I figured the chance of him being scum was lower than the risk of you guys getting off the hook if I had stayed silent and just watched. It seems that from the latest developments that other people had the same thought. So, in essence, you think that a vote to tell someone to post less is productive? Being active =/ acting strangely or counter productive I was sparking conversation dude OMGUS is warranted when I find him scummy Again, that isn't even what he said. He said he wanted you to post less fluff and more content. How is that a vote to make you post less? Also, if you're explaining away fluff as sparking conversation I don't know what to say, how is posting a bunch of fluff productive? Either people find you scummy for it(bad if you're town, it lessens your credibility) or people will actually reply with fluff themselves(even worse). How much fluff do you actually see in my filter? Quote it and put it in a spoiler. Then take my quotes that look like they are accomplishing something. and put them in another spoiler. I want to see how much you think his fluff argument holds true. That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far.
What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly?
"50% fluff, scum!!!"
"only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!"
I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number.
If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument.
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On November 04 2012 02:25 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:25 Alsn wrote:
Djod, I'd say you should just play like you want to play, within reason. Spending too much time thinking about what other people will think about you is what scum do. That is a great point. Djo why are you so concerned about not being suspicious?
This one's obvious guys. You were both in last game. He was town and looked more scummy than anyone else right up to getting lynched for it. Obviously if he's town here he wouldn't want to have that happen again. This is a bad WIFOM line of questions.
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On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:13 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:07 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 02:01 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:58 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:49 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:39 Alsn wrote:
[quote]debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho. Eh. I think it's very odd to say that townies have good dedication, and I'm one of the guys showing dedication, yet he votes me. Also, what do you think of this part of his post alsn? I kinda expected a bit more... substance in the thread by now. For a guy who hadn't posted anything, why is he calling all the actives out for substance? What good does that do? That part of his post, sure, I agree that it's somewhat a silly statement. It doesn't change the fact that you had been acting very strangely and quite counter-productive to town interests. From where I'm sitting his vote was merited. Especially in light of the fact that he said he meant it as a strong FoS as opposed to a rock solid reason for why you absolutely must be scum. You OMGUSing him most certainly doesn't damage his case. Also, it's unfortunate that I'm indirectly helping him defend himself, but at this point I simply find you/Djod more scummy than him and I figured the chance of him being scum was lower than the risk of you guys getting off the hook if I had stayed silent and just watched. It seems that from the latest developments that other people had the same thought. So, in essence, you think that a vote to tell someone to post less is productive? Being active =/ acting strangely or counter productive I was sparking conversation dude OMGUS is warranted when I find him scummy Again, that isn't even what he said. He said he wanted you to post less fluff and more content. How is that a vote to make you post less? Also, if you're explaining away fluff as sparking conversation I don't know what to say, how is posting a bunch of fluff productive? Either people find you scummy for it(bad if you're town, it lessens your credibility) or people will actually reply with fluff themselves(even worse). How much fluff do you actually see in my filter? Quote it and put it in a spoiler. Then take my quotes that look like they are accomplishing something. and put them in another spoiler. I want to see how much you think his fluff argument holds true. That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff
Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage.
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On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:13 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:07 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 02:01 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 01:58 Alsn wrote:
[quote]That part of his post, sure, I agree that it's somewhat a silly statement. It doesn't change the fact that you had been acting very strangely and quite counter-productive to town interests. From where I'm sitting his vote was merited. Especially in light of the fact that he said he meant it as a strong FoS as opposed to a rock solid reason for why you absolutely must be scum. You OMGUSing him most certainly doesn't damage his case.
Also, it's unfortunate that I'm indirectly helping him defend himself, but at this point I simply find you/Djod more scummy than him and I figured the chance of him being scum was lower than the risk of you guys getting off the hook if I had stayed silent and just watched. It seems that from the latest developments that other people had the same thought. So, in essence, you think that a vote to tell someone to post less is productive? Being active =/ acting strangely or counter productive I was sparking conversation dude OMGUS is warranted when I find him scummy Again, that isn't even what he said. He said he wanted you to post less fluff and more content. How is that a vote to make you post less? Also, if you're explaining away fluff as sparking conversation I don't know what to say, how is posting a bunch of fluff productive? Either people find you scummy for it(bad if you're town, it lessens your credibility) or people will actually reply with fluff themselves(even worse). How much fluff do you actually see in my filter? Quote it and put it in a spoiler. Then take my quotes that look like they are accomplishing something. and put them in another spoiler. I want to see how much you think his fluff argument holds true. That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel
Your "fluff rating"? O.o
Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen.
Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point.
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EPT
