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Ok reread entire thread again. Reading filters now.
Keirath-
Very neutral or careful play.
Somewhat defensive.
Makes a solid lil case on zboson.
Neutral to town read for now.
Hapahauli-
Dear lord hates lurkers ol.
I dont like pushing so fast for a hammer... ill forgive that cuz of my obv involvement in that situation.
Do stop thinking active=town and vice versa though. I have seen many town loses get attributed to that thinking.
I like how you say your vote and threat towards me of hammer is more just to pressure to vote. Thats good play.
Overall very neutral read.
Btw, i do appoligize for having a few days o hellish work there but I am used to day 1 being a meh so I figured come in all guns firing next week... whatever. I like the no deadline for this speficic circumstance.
More filter reading to come, gotta go on sales floor for a few hours first... be back in lime 2-4 hours.
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On October 23 2012 04:23 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 04:22 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 23 2012 04:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Now I'm generally fairly sympathetic towards inconsistencies, since I can be very inconsistent myself as town. In particular, misrepresenting the stances of others isn't necessarily scummy, and I've fell victim to tunneling people on that in the past. However, misrepresenting your own stances is much scummier IMO. Especially when it reads to me like you're bullshitting your reasons for suspecting a player.
I know I was going to wait on v7, but I've convinced myself. Unless I hear a good explanation for your "reasoning" above, my vote is squarely on you.
##Vote Z-Boson Please be more clear if you still think this after my explanation above, and please be more plain as to why the fuck I'm scum. I can't defend myself vs. blatant exaggerations of what I post. Simple. You have three different definitions of what you call an "easy read." None of them make sense with each other.
List them please.
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Or rather, what I'm asking of you is to describe how what I pointed out here makes sense in detail:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=25#491
Because the way I read it...
1) you initially attack me for my "easy reads" in general, explicitly mentioning the read on Kei
2) you then re-define "easy reads" to mean my read on v7
3) then you re-define "easy reads" again to mean my unvote on v7.
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Also zboson, i wouldnt wipe my ass with anything you gave me jerk.
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On October 23 2012 04:26 vaderseven wrote:
Ok reread entire thread again. Reading filters now.
Keirath-
Very neutral or careful play.
Somewhat defensive.
Makes a solid lil case on zboson.
Neutral to town read for now.
Hapahauli-
Dear lord hates lurkers ol.
I dont like pushing so fast for a hammer... ill forgive that cuz of my obv involvement in that situation.
Do stop thinking active=town and vice versa though. I have seen many town loses get attributed to that thinking.
I like how you say your vote and threat towards me of hammer is more just to pressure to vote. Thats good play.
Overall very neutral read.
Btw, i do appoligize for having a few days o hellish work there but I am used to day 1 being a meh so I figured come in all guns firing next week... whatever. I like the no deadline for this speficic circumstance.
More filter reading to come, gotta go on sales floor for a few hours first... be back in lime 2-4 hours.
I have to say. I expected something a lot better than this.
Two neutral reads and casual player observations =/= useful.
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##unvote
Goddamnit v7 is doing his best to convince me to lynch him.
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There is a difference from being like omg he is lurking and me saying sorry RL ill try harder (which i have done ty). You are like oh he was lurking and said RL...... kill him before he posts more.
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On October 23 2012 04:26 vaderseven wrote:
Ok reread entire thread again. Reading filters now.
Keirath-
Very neutral or careful play.
Somewhat defensive.
Makes a solid lil case on zboson.
Neutral to town read for now.
+ Show Spoiler +Somewhat defensive? ROFL. Understatement of the year  Carry on.
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Dude fuck off thats first two on the player list im going own one by one.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Vote Count!
vaderseven (3) - austinmcc, iamperfection, drazak
Z-Boson (2) - Keirathi, DarthPunk
Not Voting (4) - Marvellosity, vaderseven, Z-Boson, Hapahauli
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day ends when a majority is reached.
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On October 23 2012 04:35 vaderseven wrote:
Dude fuck off thats first two on the player list im going own one by one.
Well carry on then. Just making my thoughts known to you.
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I mean seriously i felt bad till ou just became an ass right there. I *am* giving you every ounce of possible effort on reading every player. One by one via a phone. Give me some damn time to post the 1500+ words before you say WELP USELESS
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Oh err. Thanks ill do that ignore last post missed ur post before this one.
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Also expect a ore conclusive set of thoughts after i go player by player. Maybe I shoulda indicated that.
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On October 23 2012 04:27 Hapahauli wrote:Or rather, what I'm asking of you is to describe how what I pointed out here makes sense in detail: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=25#491Because the way I read it... 1) you initially attack me for my "easy reads" in general, explicitly mentioning the read on Kei 2) you then re-define "easy reads" to mean my read on v7 3) then you re-define "easy reads" again to mean my unvote on v7.
Ah now I see. Let me clear it up, as I think you are misinterpreting my posts.
1) The part you refer to is where I said this:
Your reads so far seem too... easy. I don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case:
First off, I agree there is room to interpret this as:
Your reads so far seem too... easy. For instance, I don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case:
What I meant is this:
Your reads so far seem too... easy. I also don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case:
This also makes sense by the way. You didn't make a read on keirathi. You just said this:
Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days.
You mentioned you were surprised. That isn't a read. My deal with you agreeing me on keirathi was that you agreed using something else - his meta, which I found to be weird, granted that kei is generally pretty inactive day 1.
I have to note, though. Right now you are the one that's lying. This was your first interpretation of my attack on you for "easy reads":
As for my "easy reads", I still stand by them. I like taking stances early in the game. Sometimes I'm wrong about them (actually I was really wrong about DP in mafia LVII while I was alive), but it's a nice way to get things going. Also, I really stand by my town read on DP this game (he has 5 pages of filter already FFS). Starting to waver on Draz a bit due to his recent inactivity.
Right here you refer to them as all your general town reads. You don't interpret them as them being on Keirathi.
I then clear this up on my next post, item b), in red:
On October 22 2012 05:19 Z-BosoN wrote:Alrighty. Read the bloodstains. Referenced for ease of response. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 04:51 Hapahauli wrote:I don't feel there's anything about this suspicion that I want you to address though, whether as town or scum you are going to disagree, but feel free to expand on anything if you want. Uhh wat? Well of course I'll "expand" on what you've said, but you aren't at all in the least bit curious to hear my explanations for my actions when you are suspicious of me? a) I am, but like I said, I am more interested in your reads. Now, however, you've successfully convinced me you need more looking into.As for my "easy reads", I still stand by them. I like taking stances early in the game. Sometimes I'm wrong about them (actually I was really wrong about DP in mafia LVII while I was alive), but it's a nice way to get things going. Also, I really stand by my town read on DP this game (he has 5 pages of filter already FFS). Starting to waver on Draz a bit due to his recent inactivity. b) I have no problems with your town read on DP. I agree with them. I don't understand why you felt the need to bring this up. I don't think I mentioned that I was troubled with you taking stances early on. My trouble was with the "easy reads on scum, and I think this was quite clear when I mentioned v7, the "easy read" I'm referring to.As for the "reminding you of my scum newbie game"... in what regard? Can't respond to this if I have no idea wtf you're talking about. c) The general feel of your posts. I'm not going to go through your old filters to prove what I mean, unless I really want you dead.As for "fluffy" posts - I haven't had much substance to go on until today, but with some newfound posting, let's get to work on that: kk
Regarding KeiThere's nothing in his filter that sets of scum alarms for me. His activity is normal for either alignment (therefore null), and I do like that he seems like he's actively thinking about Drazak's filter. He does a mini-180 on his stance on Drazak which seems pretty logical - first thinking that his vote is more likely town, then when Drazak doesn't post, he's willing to change his read due to the lack of pressure that Draz is putting on DP. On top of that, having read through his scum meta in GSL I extensively, I find his scum play to be overall more cooperative. I'm definitely not lynching him on his filter, but I'd like to hear more from him. Null/leaning-town on Kei. d) Cooperative as in looking more townie and seeming like he is trying to scumhunt more? I don't understand what you mean here.
Regarding AustinJust like Marv, I'm really really good at wanting to mislynch town-austin every time we're in a game together. However unlike marv, I don't get townie vibes from his filter so far. This post especially is strange: On October 21 2012 08:02 austinmcc wrote:On October 21 2012 06:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
lol, my vote was a pre-game joke.
##Unvote
Let's not die guys. This game will take forever if it's this inactive.
Austin, you've played with Kei in liquid city. What do you make of him? I don't remember kei in LC tbh. I was mostly inactive D1, came back looking at those couple specific people, died before I had a good handle on the full game. Kei from Aperture 2 I feel like is a solid townie as far as being active, looking town, once the game starts. Not...the type of player who takes advantage of that, though? Basically was the towniest person in game, was going to get protection, but kind of let spammier people take over and direct the flow of the game, and noticed that that was happening (kei, your game was much more fun when we were scumhunting than claiming/solving the game bit). I expect some good and insightful posts from him, but I haven't seen him be particularly aggressive. I think we also played...rockband? And maybe another game? I'll have to look through. I don't have a big meta handle on keirathi, but I'm also not generally good at catching people via meta or even USING meta. I mainly focus on picking out odd questions, or questions that never got pursued. That seems to be when I'm most effective, and so I'm going to try and mine the thread hard for things that stick out.
Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but DP has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH) There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them.
Not relevant to anything that's happening, but spoilered for DP and so thread can see my thought process: + Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote:
So what you are saying is that me asking the only person in the thread at that point makes less sense than calling for a mass claim 30 mins into day one.
0_o I asked if you thought he was scum because of this On October 20 2012 13:20 DarthPunk wrote:
If there was even the slightest chance that draz was scum and would be less comfortable fake claiming it was a better play than the alternative IMO.
I am done with this. You don't agree. so be it.
If you didn't have any particular reason to believe draz was scum, then I was uncertain why you'd only ask HIM to roleclaim. The logic that this was a better play than not asking people would hold true for everyone, so if you were REALLY hanging your hat on "asking and making them claim VT is helpful" then you should have been asking EVERYONE, unless you had particular scumreads. That's why I ask, because that logic that you gave wasn't draz-specific, yet your question WAS draz-specific. There's a disconnect there, that I felt like would be addressed if you actually thought he was scum. I think asking ONE person this thing that you think is good to get answers to is weird, because you SHOULD be thinking it's good to ask every person in the game that. It's divided into three parts: 1) Meta-talk on Kei 2) stuff on v7/DP 3) Explanation of thought process to DP 1) He really doesn't say anything here. I think he's capable of doing this as town though, and he mentions that he's not very big on meta. This is fine. 2) This starts to get a bit weird, and I can't follow the logic at all. He says v7 is sticking out to him, and then talks about the DP situation for the entire paragraph. 3) This strikes me as a defensive impulse. I dont' understand why austin would get defensive here or really bother to explain his actions when no one was suspecting him for it. Overall, austin's D1 play this game is more active, and I haven't seen it before and don't know what to make of it. However, I do find him slightly scummy because of the above post and want some answers. This later part on austin's case I'm going to respond here, because I have MAJOR issues with it. 1) I asked him for his town read on keir.. 2) What? What logic don't you follow. His logic seems pretty clear to me. You are treating the events "v7 sticking out to him" and "the DP situation" as separate events. To me it seems quite clear that he is troubled with v7 because of his "easy voting" on DP. 3) It looks like a defensive impulse. Are you saying it makes him seem scummy? I REALLY dislike point number 2). Wtf, I say.
I'll quote it here so people can see:
b) I have no problems with your town read on DP. I agree with them. I don't understand why you felt the need to bring this up. I don't think I mentioned that I was troubled with you taking stances early on. My trouble was with the "easy reads on scum, and I think this was quite clear when I mentioned v7, the "easy read" I'm referring to.
Then you did not mention this again.
Now you are attacking me for being dubious on what I meant originally way back on the "easy reads".
This is the second time I get the feeling one of your cases is fabricated. It's not just the interpretation - it's your change of what interpretation you are using that bothers me.
Also, on number 3), I don't know what you mean by this. Where the fuck do I change the definition of "easy read" in this post":
Hapa, not sure I follow you here.
It's funny you got all riled up on the word "unjust". Initially, I had written "retarded", but I didn't want to sound like a dick and start a war. So I used a word that better describes what you are doing. You are using a fraction of one post I make to deem me hypocritical.
So, based on your weird-ass interpretation of the word "unjust", you unvote someone you were uber confident on, before he went afk for an additional 12 hours or more.
Very interesting, to say the least. I'll mull this over dinner.
This is a whole other deal than my concern with your "easy read" on v7.
Right now I'd like you to answer why you are blatantly changing your interpretation of my posts
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Not to defend hapa too much, but I know when I've read things, I think different things whehter or not I'm hungry, or if other things are going on in my life, maybe he reconsidered after reading something again.
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On October 23 2012 02:54 austinmcc wrote:
I think we all get our thoughts in the open, even if we think someone is going to leap on them for being scummy.
I think we need that. I think we need to quit worrying about what's scummy or townie or anything, and get thoughts into the thread.
We don't immediately gang up on anyone and shut them down if they post something scummy, because that actually seems to have been counterproductive.
Everyone just stop being afraid of posting something, looking scummy, whatever, and play the game.
Hapa and Keirathi, do you find the above to be a good plan of action?
If not, where would you make modifiations?
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First of all, what does it matter that I'm currently changing MY interpretations of YOUR posts? I interpreted YOUR posts one way the first time I read it. Then I interpreted it another way the second time when I read it in more detail. There's nothing inconsistent about this - these are your posts we're talking about and not my own. If you think this is scummy, GL with that.
But I don't think you actually think this - I think you're scum, and you just completely dodged making a defense.
Now on to your explanations:
#1) Your explanation is one way to interpet this. However, you explicitly mention "easy reads" (plural). If you were actually talking about my read (singular) on v7, I have a hard time believing you'd use this word choice. In fact, I think it's really clear that you're talking about my reads in general, unlike statement #2 (where it becomes the singular read on v7).
#2) What in the fuck? You offer no explanation for this still. Nowhere in your post do you explain this.
#3) YOU QUOTED THE WRONG POST
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=24#479
The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.
This is the line that I object to, and it's very clear in context that you're referring to your statement in #2.
You were defending yourself from accusations SPECIFICALLY directed to the double-standard you held between my "easy read" on v7, and your much easier read on v7. This clearly deals with easy reads, and is another change in definition you completely dodge.
You offer a dubious explanation for #1, and nowhere do you even bother to defend points #2 and #3.
I'm not misrepresenting you, and you completely dodged defending yourself.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Vote Count!
vaderseven (3) - austinmcc, iamperfection, drazak
Z-Boson (3) - Keirathi, DarthPunk, Hapahauli
Not Voting (3) - Marvellosity, vaderseven, Z-Boson
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day ends when a majority is reached.
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EPT
