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On October 23 2012 03:14 austinmcc wrote:
Keirathi:
I wrote some stuff here but it was super wishy-washy and it's just my thoughts that don't go anywhere. So instead, could you update your read on iamperfection, in long-form?
He's not being talked about, but you said he felt "kind of town" and noted that you felt confident in meta-reading him. Could you just blabber on in a post or two about what read you get from him based on his play this game and based on meta?
It's pretty easy.
On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action.blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role? Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more. ## Vote DarthPunk
Note the bolded. Scum iamp doesn't say things like that that could potentially make him look bad. It's basically the same read I had on him in Aperture, where I was wrong. The key difference, I think, is that he only had 4 posts and I made a snap judgement rather than basing it on an overall pattern, partly because GSL2 was still going on at the time and I was convinced he was scum in that game (which I was right about). He is very distinctly more carefree as town, while being careful as scum.
Of course, I've told him this multiple times so he could potentially try to play differently, and his recent posting regarding me and v7 seems much more careful than his posting earlier in the day. So, I'm still slightly town on him and wouldn't want to lynch him today. If he is scum trying to play differently, I don't think he'll be able to keep it up for long.
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On October 23 2012 03:32 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:17 austinmcc wrote:On October 22 2012 04:25 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 04:01 austinmcc wrote:On October 22 2012 03:20 Z-BosoN wrote:Pretty much. It's more of the tone of his posts. On Liquid City, note how he finds a small breach in detail and immediately tunnels on it. He did the same thing in LVII against me. He demonstrates an aggressive, investigative style. This isn't what I'm viewing from him this game. He's being passive and inconclusive on his reads. His only vote is deemed a "provocation" one. I do not view it as a real attempt at pressure, and his general filter seems off. In my mind the townie austin would have been all over drazak or DP over something such as has happened in this game. Hmmm. I'm glad I don't seem crazy tunnelly. Look at Looney Lynching and my play there, or my comments in obs chat. Yes, I've been exceptionally tunnelly in some recent games. It didn't work out well. I'm curious though, why would you think townie austinmcc would be all over drazak or DP? Because some elements of what they said I figured you would be immediately on their tail. Z-BosoN, could you answer this in more detail? Why would townie austin have been all over drazak and DP for their early posting? Austin, in LVII you were going after me because I was asking about certain roles. Oh, and some other things that pretty much included everything I said. In Liquid City you went after me because I talked to Node. Do I really need to be more specific than that?
Yeah. I don't get where the Node stuff fits in. That was like...a one-time thought I've had (although I hope to find something like that again actually, just not where the person referencing the player I find scummy is doing so because the person I find scummy directly answered a question they asked). But that's off to the side.
I'm just...I can see the role stuff. So that's a reason I might have been on DP's case. Why drazak? And is it just that I was on you for asking about roles and DP was asking drazak his role? In my head those are slightly different things, in that DP wasn't asking questions but was just pure pure pure fishing. That may not be a difference that matters. But why drazak?
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Of course they are different things. My town meta on you depicts a much more aggressive austin. DP and drazak gave you much room to be aggressive, yet you were not. You didn't do what I expected you to do, against my meta read on you. That's about it.
I don't see why you think this is important, though. If I were pushing a vote of you solely because of this, then you might have something to go on. I was satisfied with your looney filter and never breached that topic again. Entertain me with why you are so interested about it.
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On October 23 2012 03:34 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:14 austinmcc wrote:
Keirathi:
I wrote some stuff here but it was super wishy-washy and it's just my thoughts that don't go anywhere. So instead, could you update your read on iamperfection, in long-form?
He's not being talked about, but you said he felt "kind of town" and noted that you felt confident in meta-reading him. Could you just blabber on in a post or two about what read you get from him based on his play this game and based on meta? It's pretty easy. Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action.On October 20 2012 09:14 DarthPunk wrote:
Hi drazak? What is your role?
blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role? Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more. ## Vote DarthPunk Note the bolded. Scum iamp doesn't say things like that that could potentially make him look bad. It's basically the same read I had on him in Aperture, where I was wrong. The key difference, I think, is that he only had 4 posts and I made a snap judgement rather than basing it on an overall pattern, partly because GSL2 was still going on at the time and I was convinced he was scum in that game (which I was right about). He is very distinctly more carefree as town, while being careful as scum. Of course, I've told him this multiple times so he could potentially try to play differently, and his recent posting regarding me and v7 seems much more careful than his posting earlier in the day. So, I'm still slightly town on him and wouldn't want to lynch him today. If he is scum trying to play differently, I don't think he'll be able to keep it up for long.
Thanks. Is it possible for you to block your knowledge of the player, and tell me how you'd read him if you'd never played with him before, if some unknown name had made his posts this game?
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On October 23 2012 03:45 Z-BosoN wrote:
Of course they are different things. My town meta on you depicts a much more aggressive austin. DP and drazak gave you much room to be aggressive, yet you were not. You didn't do what I expected you to do, against my meta read on you. That's about it.
I don't see why you think this is important, though. If I were pushing a vote of you solely because of this, then you might have something to go on. I was satisfied with your looney filter and never breached that topic again. Entertain me with why you are so interested about it.
I'm trying to read you. Your comment about who I should be attacking sticks out to me. I personally disagree that I'd be going after those targets, but I don't know if: (1) I'm wrong; (2) you really think that and have reasons behind thinking that; or (3) you just tossed that comment out there without reasoning behind it.
You explaining yourself helps me choose between (1) or (2) vs. (3).
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@DP,
Talking about expectations, I hope you realize how weak this is:
On October 23 2012 01:35 DarthPunk wrote:
Just looking over ZB's filter he has barely pushed v7 at all. The cases of his on both hapa and Keir are much stronger IMO and have a lot more time invested. Townie ZB tries to canvass support hardcore when he pushes like that. But this game he hasn't really bothered.
I would fully expect ZB to be pushing Keir right now. As most of his interaction has been towards him. I would not expect him to just lynch a 'liability' like that. Especially when he has his own cases that he usually tries to canvass support for. It's like he doesn;t care about the lynch as much as usual.
For reference. In XXVIII when I caught Kush with a super obvious scum slip ZB STILL did not want to lynch him until after kush was being bussed and went full troll mode on the thread.
I went over his scum filter from XXIV briefly.That is like the only game of his in which he pushed lurkers happily over those he had made cases/reads on.
I push cases when I feel the need to. I've made my case against Kei, and had nothing else to say. My case against him isn't lynch-worthy, in my own opinion.
Also, note how I did not quite kill v7. Several people wanted to insta-kill him, yet I felt pretty scared of laying my vote against him, and argued a bit against it, trying to give him another chance.
Now that he is backing posting, he took the chance I gave him and wiped his ass with it.
Now I find I actually want to lynch him, more specifically because of that.
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On October 23 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:34 Keirathi wrote:On October 23 2012 03:14 austinmcc wrote:
Keirathi:
I wrote some stuff here but it was super wishy-washy and it's just my thoughts that don't go anywhere. So instead, could you update your read on iamperfection, in long-form?
He's not being talked about, but you said he felt "kind of town" and noted that you felt confident in meta-reading him. Could you just blabber on in a post or two about what read you get from him based on his play this game and based on meta? It's pretty easy. On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action.On October 20 2012 09:14 DarthPunk wrote:
Hi drazak? What is your role?
blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role? Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more. ## Vote DarthPunk Note the bolded. Scum iamp doesn't say things like that that could potentially make him look bad. It's basically the same read I had on him in Aperture, where I was wrong. The key difference, I think, is that he only had 4 posts and I made a snap judgement rather than basing it on an overall pattern, partly because GSL2 was still going on at the time and I was convinced he was scum in that game (which I was right about). He is very distinctly more carefree as town, while being careful as scum. Of course, I've told him this multiple times so he could potentially try to play differently, and his recent posting regarding me and v7 seems much more careful than his posting earlier in the day. So, I'm still slightly town on him and wouldn't want to lynch him today. If he is scum trying to play differently, I don't think he'll be able to keep it up for long. Thanks. Is it possible for you to block your knowledge of the player, and tell me how you'd read him if you'd never played with him before, if some unknown name had made his posts this game?
It's pretty hard to separate that knowledge out. I've read or played in every single game that iamp has been in, AFAIK.
Maybe I would be a bit suspicious of a random guy for hopping on the easy bandwagons, but not more so than other people. But again, I don't think this is scum iamp.
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Dude, I made a prediction on you. Obviously I'm not an austin expert and don't know your every move. I made a read on you you did not do. Ergo, that made me suspicious of you, but now that has resolved. I don't know how to be clearer than this.
It's not that you SHOULD be attacking them, when the fuck did I said that.
Also, reference the quote I put from DP. He's doing pretty much the same thing, except he's calling me scum for it. This is weak on its own unless it goes along with a stronger argument as to why people are thought to be scum, and it is why I'm not bolding your name.
On October 23 2012 03:49 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:45 Z-BosoN wrote:
Of course they are different things. My town meta on you depicts a much more aggressive austin. DP and drazak gave you much room to be aggressive, yet you were not. You didn't do what I expected you to do, against my meta read on you. That's about it.
I don't see why you think this is important, though. If I were pushing a vote of you solely because of this, then you might have something to go on. I was satisfied with your looney filter and never breached that topic again. Entertain me with why you are so interested about it. I'm trying to read you. Your comment about who I should be attacking sticks out to me. I personally disagree that I'd be going after those targets, but I don't know if: (1) I'm wrong; (2) you really think that and have reasons behind thinking that; or (3) you just tossed that comment out there without reasoning behind it. You explaining yourself helps me choose between (1) or (2) vs. (3).
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On October 23 2012 03:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
It's not that you SHOULD be attacking them, when the fuck did I said that.
In my mind the townie austin would have been all over drazak or DP over something such as has happened in this game. I read that as "If austin were townie, he'd be attacking drazak and DP. He has not done so, which is part of why I think he's scummy."
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Anyways, I have to go sit with my grandpa again for the afternoon. I'll be on my phone keep up as much as possible.
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On October 23 2012 03:30 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, that's a real bad tell. From liquid city: Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 14 2012 08:16 iamperfection wrote:On October 14 2012 08:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP is my top scumread, I've been trying to push him since forever, but no one seems to find him scummy, so =/ shaopi is voting for dp. Yea that's making me uneasy on who to vote. The biggest tagline of my voting on ShiaoPi is being useless with a fair possibility of being scum. The biggest tagline of me wanting to vote DP is that I actually find him scum. Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7. Second of all, I actually did spend quite some time pondering whether I should give the vote hammer or not. Why are you attacking me right now, and not before? Makes 0 sense. The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.@Hapa All of a sudden? So I spend like 10 posts saying why I think you are suspicious, and you say, "all of a sudden"? Fuck off. Not willing to lynch you != I think you are townie. I have no heart defending myself here. Most of this shit comes from a lack of reading and erratic interpretations. I've made cases vs. kei and hapa, but concluded that v7 deserved the best lynch. How is this fucking scummy? Better yet, how is this scummier over ppl like kei and v7 who aren't doing shit? Wanna talk about sheeping? Try Kei, who hasn't done shit and suddenly goes for me as soon as DP opens the door.
The first red statement is a straight-up lie Z-Bo.
Your first "attack" of me is here (before I unvoted v7):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=15#293
In all seriousness, however, I am a bit suspicious of you. Your reads so far seem too... easy. I don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case:
...Then in your next post (again before I unvoted):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=16#305
Quoted from the red-text:
b) I have no problems with your town read on DP. I agree with them. I don't understand why you felt the need to bring this up. I don't think I mentioned that I was troubled with you taking stances early on. My trouble was with the "easy reads on scum, and I think this was quite clear when I mentioned v7, the "easy read" I'm referring to.
Now first of all, these two statements don't make sense with each other. The first statement indicates that you find all my reads too easy, unlike the second statement which magically narrows it down. But even if we take the second statement as truth, it STILL doesn't make sense with your recent explanation:
Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.
Second of all, I actually did spend quite some time pondering whether I should give the vote hammer or not. Why are you attacking me right now, and not before? Makes 0 sense.
The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.
Red #1: You admit there's not much to say on v7, but specifically attacked me on this point (this was your angle for a while, see the 2nd stance on the "easy read" I quoted)
Red #2: This is a flat out lie - this wasn't your angle at all. You were attacking me for inconsistently defined "easy reads" BEFORE I unvoted.
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Now I'm generally fairly sympathetic towards inconsistencies, since I can be very inconsistent myself as town. In particular, misrepresenting the stances of others isn't necessarily scummy, and I've fell victim to tunneling people on that in the past. However, misrepresenting your own stances is much scummier IMO. Especially when it reads to me like you're bullshitting your reasons for suspecting a player.
I know I was going to wait on v7, but I've convinced myself. Unless I hear a good explanation for your "reasoning" above, my vote is squarely on you.
##Vote Z-Boson
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@Keir
You asked where you attacked me and then defended me, here it is:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16628794
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16629084
You also asked my thought process behind why being so agressive with your defense makes you scum and not townie. If you were frustrated townie you wouldn't have to blanket cover all of your over reactions, scum has to cover everything they do, not just some of it. A frustrated townie starts getting agressive with their scum hunting instead of just saying they're going to yell at you, I mean, wtf does yelling at someone even do?
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Not a lie. I had a different event in mind:
On October 22 2012 06:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hapa, not sure I follow you here.
It's funny you got all riled up on the word "unjust". Initially, I had written "retarded", but I didn't want to sound like a dick and start a war. So I used a word that better describes what you are doing. You are using a fraction of one post I make to deem me hypocritical.
So, based on your weird-ass interpretation of the word "unjust", you unvote someone you were uber confident on, before he went afk for an additional 12 hours or more.
Very interesting, to say the least. I'll mull this over dinner.
Also, having an "easy" read is not scummy by itself. If you look at that post you quoted, it's just a bunch of things that aren't inherently scummy, but when put together are sufficient for me to be suspicious of you.
I'm not attacking you BECAUSE you made easy reads. I'm stating my suspicions on you and using that fact and many others as parameters.
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
Vote Count!
vaderseven (3) - austinmcc, iamperfection, drazak
Z-Boson (3) - Keirathi, DarthPunk, Hapahauli
Not Voting (3) - Marvellosity, vaderseven, Z-Boson
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day ends when a majority is reached.
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No you are still bullshitting.
The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.
What part of this statement shows a "different event"? Fact of the matter is, you attacked me on an "easy read", and have relentlessly redefined your notion of "easy read." In fact, you attacking me for the unvote was a very secondary event in your overall suspicions of me.
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On October 23 2012 04:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Now I'm generally fairly sympathetic towards inconsistencies, since I can be very inconsistent myself as town. In particular, misrepresenting the stances of others isn't necessarily scummy, and I've fell victim to tunneling people on that in the past. However, misrepresenting your own stances is much scummier IMO. Especially when it reads to me like you're bullshitting your reasons for suspecting a player.
I know I was going to wait on v7, but I've convinced myself. Unless I hear a good explanation for your "reasoning" above, my vote is squarely on you.
##Vote Z-Boson
Please be more clear if you still think this after my explanation above, and please be more plain as to why the fuck I'm scum. I can't defend myself vs. blatant exaggerations of what I post.
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it. If you wish to write your own votecounts, go ahead, but do so without the blue bold text.
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On October 23 2012 04:22 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 04:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Now I'm generally fairly sympathetic towards inconsistencies, since I can be very inconsistent myself as town. In particular, misrepresenting the stances of others isn't necessarily scummy, and I've fell victim to tunneling people on that in the past. However, misrepresenting your own stances is much scummier IMO. Especially when it reads to me like you're bullshitting your reasons for suspecting a player.
I know I was going to wait on v7, but I've convinced myself. Unless I hear a good explanation for your "reasoning" above, my vote is squarely on you.
##Vote Z-Boson Please be more clear if you still think this after my explanation above, and please be more plain as to why the fuck I'm scum. I can't defend myself vs. blatant exaggerations of what I post.
Simple. You have three different definitions of what you call an "easy read." None of them make sense with each other.
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On October 23 2012 04:21 Hapahauli wrote:No you are still bullshitting. Show nested quote +The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so. What part of this statement shows a "different event"? Fact of the matter is, you attacked me on an "easy read", and have relentlessly redefined your notion of "easy read." In fact, you attacking me for the unvote was a very secondary event in your overall suspicions of me.
What? Someone above me attacked me saying that I was attacking you for making the same read I did. I thought they were misinterpreting me in that event, the one where I said I found your unvoting of v7 weird - you can note I called out a "misinterpretation".
That other event, however, was not what I was referring to. That first instance I used the "making an easy read" plus other small arguments to justify why I had a light suspicion of you. You are treating this as if I'm using that sole thing alone to go balls out and attack you.
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EPT
