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Your Clothes, Give them to me. [mafia] - Page 9

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Harry Tasker
Profile Joined October 2012
107 Posts
October 19 2012 00:16 GMT
#161
On October 19 2012 09:13 Alan Schaefer wrote:
Harry and Jack same question:

Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 08:10 Alan Schaefer wrote:
doug what do you think of my contention that alex is more interested in reminding us that he has a scum read on me and reminding us that he made a case, than he is in actually persuading people or pushing his case?



not a lot
Harry Tasker
Profile Joined October 2012
107 Posts
October 19 2012 00:17 GMT
#162
On October 19 2012 09:15 Douglas Quaid wrote:
On why I'm not pursuing Jack - I have outstanding questions on several players right now, it's impossible for me to keep track of all of them. But thanks for reminding me, and I would like a response from Jack.

Secondly, I am very non-committal in regards to the Ben lynch, and I believe rightfully so. I'm surprised you aren't as well (if you're town). We have a player who hasn't posted yet, and there is a risk that he's scum. We can't ignore this, or mafia gets a huge D1 win and we have nothing to hold them accountable for.

I have scumreads yes, but nothing set in stone. I find Ben scummy, but I think there are possible ways for him to explain his actions if he's town. Alex and Jack as well. I want to wait for responses rather than jumping the gun on inconclusive evidence.


No, I don't get how you call something very scummy earlier in the day and then magically forget about it when creating your list of reads with no god-damn preference.
Douglas Quaid
Profile Joined October 2012
92 Posts
October 19 2012 00:20 GMT
#163
On October 19 2012 09:17 Harry Tasker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 09:15 Douglas Quaid wrote:
On why I'm not pursuing Jack - I have outstanding questions on several players right now, it's impossible for me to keep track of all of them. But thanks for reminding me, and I would like a response from Jack.

Secondly, I am very non-committal in regards to the Ben lynch, and I believe rightfully so. I'm surprised you aren't as well (if you're town). We have a player who hasn't posted yet, and there is a risk that he's scum. We can't ignore this, or mafia gets a huge D1 win and we have nothing to hold them accountable for.

I have scumreads yes, but nothing set in stone. I find Ben scummy, but I think there are possible ways for him to explain his actions if he's town. Alex and Jack as well. I want to wait for responses rather than jumping the gun on inconclusive evidence.


No, I don't get how you call something very scummy earlier in the day and then magically forget about it when creating your list of reads with no god-damn preference.


I forgot, since I'm pursuing a whole bunch of other stuff. What you want me to do - lie and give you a half-assed excuse? That wouldn't be too hard.
Harry Tasker
Profile Joined October 2012
107 Posts
October 19 2012 00:26 GMT
#164
On October 19 2012 09:20 Douglas Quaid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 09:17 Harry Tasker wrote:
On October 19 2012 09:15 Douglas Quaid wrote:
On why I'm not pursuing Jack - I have outstanding questions on several players right now, it's impossible for me to keep track of all of them. But thanks for reminding me, and I would like a response from Jack.

Secondly, I am very non-committal in regards to the Ben lynch, and I believe rightfully so. I'm surprised you aren't as well (if you're town). We have a player who hasn't posted yet, and there is a risk that he's scum. We can't ignore this, or mafia gets a huge D1 win and we have nothing to hold them accountable for.

I have scumreads yes, but nothing set in stone. I find Ben scummy, but I think there are possible ways for him to explain his actions if he's town. Alex and Jack as well. I want to wait for responses rather than jumping the gun on inconclusive evidence.


No, I don't get how you call something very scummy earlier in the day and then magically forget about it when creating your list of reads with no god-damn preference.


I forgot, since I'm pursuing a whole bunch of other stuff. What you want me to do - lie and give you a half-assed excuse? That wouldn't be too hard.


So should Jack have been on the list? If not, why not? Who ARE your preferred lynches?
Douglas Quaid
Profile Joined October 2012
92 Posts
October 19 2012 00:30 GMT
#165
I want to hear from Jack before I make a determination on him. (I'm also curious if you found my point on him to have any merit)

For now, top two lynch candidates are Ben and John.

But for emphasis - I really want to wait to see if John posts before we lynch anyone. There's absolutely no reason to rush things, and it benefits town the more discussion we can generate on D1.
Alan Schaefer
Profile Joined October 2012
42 Posts
October 19 2012 00:34 GMT
#166
On October 19 2012 09:16 Harry Tasker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 09:13 Alan Schaefer wrote:
Harry and Jack same question:

On October 19 2012 08:10 Alan Schaefer wrote:
doug what do you think of my contention that alex is more interested in reminding us that he has a scum read on me and reminding us that he made a case, than he is in actually persuading people or pushing his case?



not a lot


Why?

He completely ignored my response to his case. He also completely ignored ben's further questioning him on his case:

On October 19 2012 01:42 Ben Richards wrote:
@Alex

Elaborate on your read of Alan - I'm not seeing what you're seeing in Alan's posting. I tend to agree with Harry when he says that lurking is absolutely viable as a scum strategy, and presently I think John is our best bet for scum. To a lesser degree, Jack is fitting the bill of lurking, disinterested scum too. Why is Alan scummier than both of these guys?



And yet, five different times later in the thread (I counted in his filter), he continued to insist that "we have a better lynch in Alan" and "there is a better case on Alan."

He continued to bring up and talk about that case while ignoring the response, ignoring questions about it, ignoring the fact that everyone else was ignoring it.

To me, that says he wants everyone to know that he is "making cases and having scum reads" but doesn't care enough to go in depth or fight with people over them.

If you disagree with me, then one of the following things must be true:
- you think I'm misinterpreting what he did - ie, you think he actually was trying to convince people, etc
- you think it's possible to do exactly what I've described and still be town.

could you tell me which of those it is and why?

The more I think about this, the more I want to

##vote: Alex Hesse

until I'm convinced otherwise.
GET TO DA CHOPPA!
Harry Tasker
Profile Joined October 2012
107 Posts
October 19 2012 00:57 GMT
#167
I think it's negligent, but I also get townie feelings elsewhere in his filter (his discussions with me on John).

Ugh. Actually I don't like how he's (not) pushed your case either. I just find Ben significantly scummier - I don't see any townieness in his posts whereas I can see townieness in Alex's.
Alex Hesse
Profile Joined October 2012
72 Posts
October 19 2012 01:10 GMT
#168
I didn't repeat my case on Alan Schaefer because it's already there and his response didn't make me feel any more townie about him. His prodding around right now doesn't make me think that he's any more townie. I am confident that Ben Richards is town, I already made an early post to show distinct town traits in his posting and there's been a couple more since then. I'm on board with Alan Schaefer and John Matrix today and we need to start wrapping up.

If you want me to respond to your points against me I'll do that:

Douglas Quaid says "lack of rationale for all his reads" but this is just absolutely untrue, I have rationale. If he can't be persuaded that I have rationale, then he needs to ask himself if it is scummy not to have any rationale yet be outspoken and active.

Ben Richards, I responded to his points already.

Maybe there was more but I probably ignored it because it was dumb.

I don't know if there's anything else against me. Alan Schaefer has pointed out a random fact that I already explained and that he doesn't in any way try to explain why it is scummy instead of townie. Fact is that it is neither, I am not repeating my case because it's already there but no one can say that I am not pushing it.

Can anybody tell me why Alan Schaefer is town?
Harry Tasker
Profile Joined October 2012
107 Posts
October 19 2012 01:21 GMT
#169
On October 19 2012 10:10 Alex Hesse wrote:
I didn't repeat my case on Alan Schaefer because it's already there and his response didn't make me feel any more townie about him. His prodding around right now doesn't make me think that he's any more townie. I am confident that Ben Richards is town, I already made an early post to show distinct town traits in his posting and there's been a couple more since then. I'm on board with Alan Schaefer and John Matrix today and we need to start wrapping up.



Which and why?
Douglas Quaid
Profile Joined October 2012
92 Posts
October 19 2012 01:23 GMT
#170
@ Alex

Outline why you think Alan is scum for us, because I don't see it in your filter beyond what I posted before. Same goes for your town read on Ben.
Alex Hesse
Profile Joined October 2012
72 Posts
October 19 2012 01:23 GMT
#171
"Scum is just dying for shit like that" again shows that he has no idea about scum. I also think that him voting me after my very early and very confident town read in him is consistent with how other townies act in the same situation.
Alex Hesse
Profile Joined October 2012
72 Posts
October 19 2012 01:26 GMT
#172
What I posted before is it. That's the case. Overall he's just acting like scum, he doesn't have much opinion and spends the time defending himself. There are not a lot of reads but a bunch of prodding and careful posting. His first post looks incredibly scummy with the "don't do that because maybe scum will do this and that", look at Ben Richards when he told me that posting analysis was bullshit, he just came out and said it in caps and shit. Alan Schaefer is posting like a guy who doesn't want to get noticed and who doesn't feel confident in having an original opinion and that's scummy.
Harry Tasker
Profile Joined October 2012
107 Posts
October 19 2012 01:26 GMT
#173
I think you're too easily persuaded by what scum would or wouldn't say.
Alex Hesse
Profile Joined October 2012
72 Posts
October 19 2012 01:27 GMT
#174
Okay.
Harry Tasker
Profile Joined October 2012
107 Posts
October 19 2012 01:30 GMT
#175
By his own admission he's happy to play scum in a way that's counterintuitive or he does things that scum "shouldn't" do. Voting you falls into this category.

The very fact that he talked about it indicates he's capable of that level of understanding about how to play scum.
Alex Hesse
Profile Joined October 2012
72 Posts
October 19 2012 01:30 GMT
#176
Now can you please tell me why I am so wrong about Alan Schaefer?
Douglas Quaid
Profile Joined October 2012
92 Posts
October 19 2012 01:30 GMT
#177
I don't agree with his rationale, but he does have a reason. I'll have to take a bit more of a look at Ben.
Alex Hesse
Profile Joined October 2012
72 Posts
October 19 2012 01:32 GMT
#178
I don't think so Harry Tasker. I'm going to go with what I know are common scum and town tells because I find that they work for me more often than not. I think that his posting looks honest and I think that it is hard for scum to fake what I think makes him town so I believe that he is town. I am not going to second guess myself in case he might just be a scum mastermind because that never worked out for me before.
Douglas Quaid
Profile Joined October 2012
92 Posts
October 19 2012 01:32 GMT
#179
It's not like I'm convinced Alan is town - I'm just not convinced he's scum. He's fairly null to me so far.
Alex Hesse
Profile Joined October 2012
72 Posts
October 19 2012 01:35 GMT
#180
Fairly null usually translates into scum. I mean isn't this common knowledge that traditional nulls are a lot more dangerous that traditional scum? If someone is sticking his neck out to make "dumb" cases then he's probably not town because (as you can see with me) that usually just leads to a bunch of over zealous townies voting him for actually dumb reasons. If someone is doing fuck all then he's probably scum. Jack Slater also fitted into this category which was why I poked him earlier today with his change of opinion and weird "Did you see that in the scum qt?" comment, but I think he explained himself okayish. It's not like he is confirmed or anything but I'd much rather lynch Alan Schaefer.
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