EPT/in
Looking forward to it!
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX
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sylverfyre
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/in Looking forward to it! | ||
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GLHF Oh you want a hype video? Looks like its time to oil up. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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On October 25 2012 09:06 debears wrote: Welcome everyone!!!! Been waiting for this for a while!!! A few things I'd like to know from everyone. 1) How many games have you played in? 2) How many have you observed seriously? 3)Will you be normally around for lynch? + Show Spoiler + For me 1) 2 games 2) 3/4 3) Yes I will - except this friday (most likely. I play baseball for my college and we have a game friday night. don't know for sure how long it will go) Look forward to hearing from all of you. Let's get this rolllinngggg!!!!!! 1) on TL, this is my first. I've participated in a couple games of forum mafia in the past. 2) None on TL, like 1-2 on other forums. 3) Barring unforseen circumstances, yes. | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:23 Djodref wrote: EBWOP: pretty sure newbie scums can slip easily under pressure My only worry here is that newbie townies can give off false scumreads under a lot of pressure too. But pressure is good, otherwise we're just going to get nowhere. | ||
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If you're not completely new to mafia (maybe you've played a few games IRL/elsewhere, or this isn't your first game on TL) What's your favorite role to play in mafia? I feel like I'm one of few who actively enjoys being a vanilla townie more than scum or a power-townie. It feels that much better when you're part of a victory! Maybe I'm wrong in this being an uncommon choice of favorite role, though. | ||
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With that, I'm going to bed. I'll be around most of tomorrow! | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:33 debears wrote: Why are you so focused on lynching a lurker over a scumread right now imo lurker lynches are last resorts to scumreads. If a lurker has a scumread, that's a bonus. Why do you keep pressing this "artificial confidence" thing when newbie games are notorious for lurking (usually caused by fear/lack of confidence) and lack of confidence? When he said, early on: On October 25 2012 09:33 Rad wrote: Lurkers policy, well, I guess lynch lurkers if there's no better option? Can you explain what what the noob card is? FOS: debears. Explain more clearly where your scum tell is? Ok now I'm actually going to bed. | ||
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Retract FOS: debears I'd like to hear more from Roco, though. Not only is he trying to push for "lynch the loudest" but he's also not saying all that much yet. | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:55 Djodref wrote: @sylve What was your motivation for your question ? Do you realize that a lot of people are playing their first game right now ? From the 3 basic questions, seems a lot of people have played some kind of mafia or other in the past. I figured it was an interesting way to try and get people to talk. I'm not gonna push the question, discussion seems to be moving somewhere anyway. | ||
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How exactly does opposing Lynch a Lurker policy give off a town read? For me it gives off a 0.1% scum read to oppose a reasonable, but not infallible, Day 1 strategy. And if we get to the end of the day and there are still people who have only made the minimal of posts despite people accusing them (example: Roco if we were close to lynch time), then I think that's a perfectly solid lynch candidate. | ||
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I don't really agree with debears vote on rad, but I think debears is playing an aggressive game, which is clean to me. | ||
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On October 25 2012 22:39 Djodref wrote: @sylver Please answer my question regarding your question "what is your favorite role ?" I really want to understand your motivations for asking such a question. I did? Or did you not find my answer sufficient? | ||
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On October 25 2012 22:42 Djodref wrote: @sylver Would you prefer lynch Ini or Roco today ? If I had to lynch RIGHT NOW (which I Don't) then I would currently lean more towards Roco. He's given what I consider to be questionable advice/strategy, and I consider questionable advice to be anti-town - particularly in a newbie game. | ||
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The Players
Game start was at: October 25, 9:00AM Server time. Clarity hasn't posted since gamestart. imcasey hasn't posted since gamestart. Oatsmaster hasn't posted since gamestart. Inig has posted a few times. Roco has posted a few times. | ||
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On October 26 2012 00:24 Djodref wrote: @sylver I don't care about who hasn't posted right now. I want to know what info you were expecting to get by asking your question. I was making that list because I wasn't even sure myself who/how many people hadn't spoken up. I was trying to stir something up and you can also consider it a kind of "roleclaim-lite" (I hardly expect anyone to claim they enjoy playing scum when I ask ingame, but i think it could have been interesting to see if some people said they like a particular pro-town power-role.) | ||
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Yes, I am trying to get people to talk about roles without doing something as ridiculous as asking for a D1 mass claim. Also I am trying to get to know the other players in general. | ||
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You're tunneling me pretty hard when you don't look particularly clean, yourself, Djo. How bout responding to some of the criticisms against yourself? You even asked a more useless question than mine "Are you mafia?" is the classical question to which the entire game responds in chorus, "No." | ||
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debears case against Rad is developing interestingly, but Rad has a point - why are you trying so hard to save the lurkers? | ||
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On October 26 2012 01:36 debears wrote: @Rad Ah alright. One more question. Are 1,2 and 3 necessarily only mafia motivated? I don't see it. 1) Town - Create an ideal town atmosphere Mafia - Appear to be a town doing so 2) Town - Try to lead the town by being a figure who knows what he's doing Mafia - Try to be town doing that 3) Town - Confirmation Bias Mafia - Mafia Bias???? (lol idk what to call it) I'm going to reread the thread tonight. I do feel that it my case has confirmation bias at this point. No one has tried to actually break up the argument or put any real input into it. Mafia tend to love letting two townies go at it and not interfering. I'll reconsider my judgment There HAS been interference, though... I kinda OMGUS FOS'd you when you came out swinging hard and made you explain yourself, and I haven't been the only one raising eyebrows at you. | ||
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If/when 24 hours pass since Roco's last comment and he hasn't put any meat into his stance, I'm going to vote him. | ||
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Additionally: I'm a little worried about whether or not I'll be online at deadline time (9:00 servertime - 30 hours from now) because I might be on the road at the time. | ||
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At that point tomorrow, if you're going against policy, it means you have a reason that you can present to people for doing so. | ||
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On October 26 2012 05:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: So you're saying thats simply his meta? I'll take a look at his other games. Seemed suspicious though, as it stood out a ton from the other players. Well, it certainly is NOW, that post was before this game even started. | ||
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For now, I'm going with lynching the confusing lurker. If he either becomes A) not confusing, B) makes no action at all and makes me believe a modkill is incoming, or C) is replaced and the replacement can make some contribution. Vote Roco69 | ||
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##Vote Roco69 | ||
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Finally just now claiming "not needing to consolidate" is fishy to me too. If we don't consolidate, we're going to have someone get lynched with like 3 votes, reducing scum's need to assist in the lynchwagon as well as improving scum ability to make sure one of their own cannot be lynched - so we're less likely to find scum today, but equally importantly, we would have less information later in the game (and could cause town to go rabid on itself) We want to consolidate. I dunno if mods have more replacements lined up, I sure hope so. Having 3 playerdrops happen on day 1 is really depressing to me. | ||
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On October 26 2012 23:07 da0ud wrote: One thing worries me and seems to have caught no ones attention. Clarity has been modkilled!! We are already one less town!! And he was posting actual content. I just noticed this too... I don't know how. I didn't notice that until I saw it on the front page. I then checked Clarity's filter and saw nothing. Had to check mod's filter to find it. Sigh... | ||
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On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote: My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such). The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you. So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref. I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then. On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote: Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini. | ||
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On October 26 2012 23:22 Djodref wrote: Who are the three players who are going to drop, according to you ? Are you even reading this thread ? What kind of condescension is this? 1 - Clarity, who has already been modkilled 2 - Roco69, who has not posted since posting some pretty questionable stuff. He was immediately asked questions about it, and never responded. 3 - imcasey, who hasn't posted at all. (Likely player to get replaced, though.) | ||
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On October 26 2012 23:35 Djodref wrote: I'm sorry but I wouldn't call Clarity modkill a player drop. Clarity has made a mistake and has been punished for it. I thought you were referring to Oatsmaster instead of Clarity. I'm very curious how you could have missed that Clarity has been modkilled. It has been very clear on the filters list for a long time. I missed it initially (I was asleep at the time of his modkill) and didn't notice it immediately upon waking up, especially cause nobody had mentioned it. I had just noticed it when I made the "3 drops" comment, and agreed when daoud posted "wow, nobody is talking about this? and my reply to daoud amounted to an "i know right?" Furthermore, it's not so much me being frustrated at 3 players lurking out of the game, but 3 players vanishing from the game before the end of day 1 is pretty depressing and could easily cause this game to suffer infant mortality. And your condescending tone towards me and other accusers ("half-assed FOS") is bothering me. | ||
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On October 26 2012 23:43 kushm4sta wrote: When is lynch? Tonight in like 9 hours right? Yup. 9 hours 15 mins from now (9:00 27 Oct server time. 8PM 26 Oct EDT.) | ||
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On October 26 2012 23:42 Djodref wrote: @sylver So do you have even your own reasons for possibly voting me today ? Or were you just sheeping like a boss ? Uh, I've said my reasons. I don't find your defenses/ignorance of accusations adequate, I don't like how you're like BLIND LURKER POLICY IS BAD when NOBODY was advocating blind lurker policy (last resort lurker policy) which pretty much was turning the discussion into a very useless one, then you turn around and start aggressively attacking Ini for lurking. Finally I don't like how you accuse Ini of "not scumhunting" when he makes some well-thought-out town-aligned reads (and some null-reads) | ||
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On October 25 2012 09:52 Djodref wrote: You are sure taking lurker policy lynch seriously. Would you explain us at which point suspicious players become better lynch candidates than inactive players ? Then you suddenly go silent on that issue. And inactive players ARE suspicious (and you can't automatically say whether they're more suspicious or less suspicious than another suspicious player, without providing concrete examples) so it's a moot question anyway. Not your only moot question (you've been called out for asking the "are you mafia?" pointless question, too.) | ||
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On October 27 2012 00:10 Djodref wrote: Ok, give me a list of the accusations you have against me. I'm going to address them right away. On October 26 2012 23:49 sylverfyre wrote: Uh, I've said my reasons. I don't find your defenses/ignorance of accusations adequate, I don't like how you're like BLIND LURKER POLICY IS BAD when NOBODY was advocating blind lurker policy (last resort lurker policy) which pretty much was turning the discussion into a very useless one, then you turn around and start aggressively attacking Ini for lurking. Finally I don't like how you accuse Ini of "not scumhunting" when he makes some well-thought-out town-aligned reads (and some null-reads) To make it a more comprehensive list - poor responses to accusations in the past - "You sure are taking policy seriously" -> Attack lurkers aggressively (the contradiction inherent here) - accusing ini of "not scumhunting" when he posted his reads on people, simply because none of those reads were reads of scum (they were townie or null reads, and ini blatantly admitted such) - Inig was not showing any scumhunting in his posts, only fluff - Emotional levels running awfully high as people mount pressure on you, but not much defense from accusations. - "I don't care if alsn has a FOS on me" is your only defense against him for a long time. Only just now did you even acknowledge his accusations as legit. - Accusing me of sheeping when I've made it clear that I was suspicious of you pretty early. Since then, you've given me more reasons to suspect you. | ||
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@debears on Djo accusation: I initially wrote off his red-bold "I expect you to do your job as town" as banter. There's no such thing as banter once gamestart happens. Now I'm writing it off because I can't see any way to analyze it that doesn't land me in an infinite loop of WIFOM. It's weird and attention grabbing without actually saying something, which could be the start of a semilurk strategy for scum, but Djo has been doing anything but semilurking since then. He's posting accusations on people and backing them up. Also, debears, I was so distracted by your early vote on rad that I think I read those posts of your filter so carefully that I didn't pay as much attention to your non-rad posts. As for Rad's posts about Djo... I am (and have been) making the same argument of "Djo, you're not answering accusations that others are making on you." | ||
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On October 27 2012 02:46 Djodref wrote: sylver Ok, I got your point. What do you think about my defense against your points from your comprehensive list so far ? Anything else I could say ? Your defense against my points is somewhat, and pokes my arguments full of holes. But I'm not even the only one voting you right now, and I'm inclined to keep my vote on you because of the additional evidence that I had missed pointed out by debears that he and Rad had posted about you. I also don't see a reason to get so stressed out about defending oneself if you're town, unless you think you're failing at it. Lets give the example where either you are lynched, or a completely random other person in the game is lynched. If you are lynched, it is 0% correct, and if one of the other 12 players are lynched (well, 11 this game now that we have a modkill) you're slightly better than a random now, if you can convince people successfully of your own innocence. Therefore "I don't want to waste time defending myself, I want to scumhunt" doesn't hold water as a scum defense to me. (And making arguments that don't hold water I find suspicious, as I've said previously this game. And thus, I think you're so stressed out over defending yourself because you are a scum getting caught in a trap. | ||
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In sentence 1. | ||
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At this point I might as well unvote Roco. If 3 people are modkilled Day 1 though, I'm going to cry. IRL. ##Unvote Not gong to vote on Djo for now. Still FOS on him. | ||
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Djo's been so damn active at defending himself, with relatively little aid that it's hard to keep the FOS up. I'm trying to continue my case against him though, will need a moment to reexamine things. | ||
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On October 27 2012 03:03 Djodref wrote: I'm going to bed right now (for real this time^^). I'll sleep for few hours then come back... @ sylver Could you please answer my previous questions ? @Rad I cannot fully address your concern about "a townie should always be able to change his mind provided that the arguments presented are good enough". Firstly, this statement is false. Stupid townie or stubborn townie are sometimes not going to change their minds. Secondly, you have extrapolated a particular case to draw conclusions in a more general point of view. I think it's better to find the real motivation behind specific moves than to consider the big picture. But you are free to use the scumhunting style that fits you the best. I'm saying that I don't read anything scummy on Alsn at this time. It's not a particularly strong read. I'm also saying "ostensibly town" because everyone is going to PRETEND to be town, if nothing else. And scum don't want scum to get lynched day 1, so if there's a choice, they'll push people away from it. If there are 4 people, one of them scum (lets say we picked 4 random people) with 2 votes each against them, it's pretty easy to push the lynch away from one of their own. If people are consolidated into larger bandwagons (this kinda goes back to confidence) then it's harder to change a lynch result without looking suspicious. | ||
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But I do agree on not lynching Djo today. I honestly don't have any good scum reads anymore. Maybe I spent too much time tunneling djo? Kush's case for da0ud looks really strong. Reading over daouds filter one last time. Evaded an important question by answering an unimportant one... weird reason for case against Djo... Talks about blending in while doing exactly that (not posting much + trying to blend in) But he gives some great content pointing out some of the stuff, and is pretty confident in his Ini vote... I can't vote him. I find it interesting that Ini is also sticking hard to his earlier hunch instead of trying to look closer at an already formed bandwagon... That seems on the unscummy side, but not conclusively. | ||
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I need to vote someone NOW. I have no idea what's going on. I don't have any good scum reads that I like acting on, all the arguments have holes... (which was Djo) so I'm gonna end up sheeping SOMEBODY whose arguments I like. ##Vote da0ud | ||
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Da0ud's refuation of your accusation was pretty solid, but I don't like the 'well i can't post much at all for 2 days' and it seems like the kind of cover a mafia benefits from, but makes a townie a lot less potent for the town. | ||
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If you meant FOS anyone who voted for da0ud, you're FOSing LITERALLY half the game. Not productive. Chill out. | ||
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On October 28 2012 06:10 kushm4sta wrote: @silverfyre can you link to your last games please? The forum mafia I've played was on a private guild MMO forum, sorry. Mostly played IRL, some IRC games (which were about the same duration as IRL games - ~10 min day / 2 min night cycles) | ||
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