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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On January 12 2013 10:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I still dont know why people can't easily read your posts chez Easy to say with 4 years experience playing mafia with him  Although I don't find his posts particularly hard to interpret, just more annoying to do so than other players who don't speak in riddles. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On January 12 2013 10:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I owe Marvellosity an apology for eviscerating him in the obs QT. Marv that was extremely inappropriate and I'm sorry. I let my frustrations at the game get the better of me. Gotta leave all emotions with the game. Yeah, we all need a big group hug after this game fo riz.  | ||
kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Like you friend? Should I play like you Kush? | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On January 12 2013 10:32 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Is because we always pissing Word | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
01-10-2013 07:53 PM ET (US) if we were to punish for bad play there would literally be no players left on the forum. The state of the game over the past 3 months has been so awful that it's not at all surprising that this happened. There hasn't been a normal game of this size for a while now, and it's been pretty evident through the most recent normal games that the level of play has been consistently degrading. The unfortunate fact is that many of these players (i.e. yamato) are somehow convinced that they are good enough to not have to listen to anyone or do anything beyond what they are doing already. They are convinced that the reason they lose is not because of THEIR mistakes but rather the mistakes of everyone else. The blame for this town loss rests on all of town. Sure, you might shift it proportionally more toward those who were disruptive or loud or spammed, or wanted to ragequit, but those who went inactive, made bad cases, didn't read, masoned scum, convinced other people they were good (but in reality are just as bad) and deluded themselves are just as much at fault. When literally every player in the game voted a townie on day 1 you cannot argue that people deserve bans for playing badly or "against your wincondition". Everyone did that. ------ I read this post and I feel I need to respond to it. When I play in a game of mafia, there is literally no point in saying publicly that I think I'm always wrong. I do think I am wrong almost all of the time, however. But saying so to the thread does nothing but make them think I don't want them to care about what I say, which is both anti-town and completely ignorant. So instead I act like I'm right. Because what the hell, maybe ONE TIME I might be right and I'll push a good lynch, a la YANMM where I pushed the Wiggles lynch after some sheeping of Palmar. In that game it worked. Most times it doesn't mostly because I am bad, people know I'm bad, so no one listens to me. I don't want to be responsible for ruining games for veteran players who are far better than me at this game. I want to learn it, and I think after maybe 20 games or so I might actually be useful, but in the mean time I feel like I'm discouraged in signing up to games precisely because I am bad, and am a liability to whichever team I roll. My play this game was not very good, but I think most people who have played with me before knew I was town. Yes, I had wrong reads the entire game. Yes, I posted far too much. Yes, I indeed contributed to the factors that led to town's ineffectiveness, and town's overall inability to keep up with the game. I know all of this. Perhaps this is not evident from my play, but to myself I am constantly critical. So I'm sorry, WBG, Meapak, BC, Marv. I'm bad. I played bad and I'm not entirely sure how to play better. Perhaps it's better if I don't play. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Look at who I sheeped this game on day 1. Palmar, who had led me to scum day 1 the previous game, and before that Marv, a player who I respect greatly as town. When I did it, I had a solid town read on each of them. As I mentioned in my vote post for Marv, I felt I had some decent logic as to why Scum Marv would be pushing town Palmar day 1. I didn't ever post the full case, as by the time I had conceived the entire thing Marv has already killed himself, but I will give my rundown here, as I still have the bullets in my notes. 1. Palmar is an easy target for scum to place their vote in day 1, by his and other's admission. People have the opinion of him that he acts dumb all the time day 1 as either alignment, so scum Marv could certainly have seen and taken this opportunity. 2. Palmar's case was fairly convincing to me at the time. I had a decent town read on Palmar because of the reasons I defended him early in day 1 for, and I believed that if he was town, these were his real opinions and he was good enough at the game to have the right ones. Here I trusted his judgment over my own, because my feeling before that point was that Marv was probably town due to his activity and transparency. 3. Marv's lynch targets to me were incredibly lazy and easy choices at the time. Before any flips in the game, I did not want to lynch BC or MZ at all. I posted that I thought BC was scummy for his vote on Palmar because at the time it didn't make much sense to me. I had no knowledge of BC's tendencies as town, nor his thoughts on how town should play. Regardless, I had a town read on him from our interaction in the thread and did not think Marv, a player I respected, would get a scum read from that information. It felt contrived. 4. After Palmar posted his case on Marv, Marv seemed to jump on any opportunity to lynch another player. He was "suspicious" of every other player someone thought could be lynchable, something I found to be highly scummy in that he seemed more focused on his own survival than finding scum at that point. I should have seen that town Marv doesn't want to be mislynched because he believes himself to be an asset to town, something I saw in BC's posting before he got lynched. That wax my confirmation bias kicking in. 5. Marv's claim timing annoyed me, as I pointed out in the thread. I have been taught to lynch one scum at a time, and in this game I indeed focused on the one player I found scummiest at the time. So if I were to believe him town, I had no real other options for an informed lynch decision. It wasn't his fault necessarily, it was mine, but at the time I felt that it was more likely a scum claim than a town one. 6. The content of Marv's claim also irked me. The fact that he claimed slow cop meant that we would have to wait a considerable amount of time before getting any results from him to judge his claim. Again, this was not his fault, but slow cop is inherently safe to claim as scum D1 because it gives you an entire cycle to live before you get your "results", and all scum want to do is delay their own death. 7. BC made the point that anyone defending themselves because of their usefulness to town should be lynched based on their play, not on their meta. Therefor, when Marv made that appeal, I immediately felt him more scummy for it because he openly admitted he hadn't been productive day 1. What I should have realized here was that he doesn't always have good day 1's, and by his own admittance can be useless until later on. However I did not have this information coming in and trusted Palmar's judgment on the matter, which proved to be an error. This is by no means solid proof that Marv was scum, but it included my thoughts about the game after I realized BC wasn't scum and thus could be trusted. By the time I could post it however, Marv had already announced his quitting and I had felt the game in serious decline so I neglected the effort to justify my actions further. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Like by the end when I knew thrawn was scum because I talk to thrawn regularly and know him pretty well as a person and a player. That was a reasonable time to sheep. But when everyone who knows a player well is saying they aren't scum you should think about that because they aren't all scum. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
I knew I should of shot you thrawn :'(. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
I'd like some feedback on my own play as well. My own reflection is that I have similar problems as yamato. I'm quite good at looking townie but bad at finding scum. I did have decent reads on D1, at least town reads but not once did I really push a scum for his lynch IIRC. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On January 13 2013 04:48 Lazermonkey wrote: Yamato, I think you played quite well. Almost noone thought you were scum which is very postive. I'd like some feedback on my own play as well. My own reflection is that I have similar problems as yamato. I'm quite good at looking townie but bad at finding scum. I did have decent reads on D1, at least town reads but not once did I really push a scum for his lynch IIRC. When I was considering who to vig, I was thinking about people I hadn't noticed a whole lot and remembered you. Went back and compared your filter to your scum filter in Paranoia and was very convinced that you were town. But I wasn't alive very long in the game and didn't pay much attention to you otherwise. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Don't use meta for a while. I myself am not gonna use it until its clear that I understand it better Itll force you to become better at pure in game reads and keep you from mistakenly thinking a town player is scum just because they are playing differently | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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