Djodref
Part I: Round III Hopeless vs ON
On October 11 2012 00:44 Djodref wrote:I'm going to bed now and I'm going to wake up few hours before the first round deadline. I would like to say that I don't like people who are saying they are voting this one and this one but are not using the voting thread. I don't have a clear view on their motivations. So I'm going to show them the way I would like them to follow. Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 19:48 kushm4sta wrote:
voting momentoss because he's afk and I know his reads are bad
voting original because austin has contributed way more already and he's known as a good player
voting dauod because of his weird joke that made no sense... alien invaders what?
bad reasons? yes
subject to change? definintely This is an example of what I'm not going to do. On a side note, I don't like lurkers as well. ##Vote
Memento ×1
original ×1
@hopelesswould you mind explaining your gut feeling? Also I've just noticed that Kush ans ET have used the voting thread
Says he doesn't like lurking and lurking is scummy. But later he defends ON for lurking saying lurking usually doesn't flip scum. Ridiculous double standards whenever its needed.
On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote:
Day 1 Round 2 Preview
HiroPro/OriginalName
At first glance this MU looks easy but it could be more interesting that it looks like. Once thing I have learned in my previous game is that obvious scum players are usually town (Kush being an exception of this rule^^).
We could all agree that ON looks bad, like very very bad. Casting last minute panic votes (on me on top of that) after zero posts and not even properly explaining his motives is scummy as hell. But thinking about it, I cannot imagine any mafia player being this obvious. So I want to give him a second chance for today and see if he can make it up before the deadline.
HiroPro hasn't posting that much and I didn't like his post encouraging people to share their thoughts and plans about the lynch mechanics. Right now, I would vote him over ON but I don't want to spend more than 3 votes on this (I didn't keep my 10 votes like, let's say, Hopeless).
Prediction: ON advaces against my will to the Round 4 5-3
snip
Gives ON an excuse for being scummy, bringing doubt on putting ON through. Too scummy to be scum. Mafia don't usually flip when they are this obvious. Saying he wants to vote hopeless over ON but wont use more than 3 votes.
On October 12 2012 11:33 Djodref wrote:@HopelessYou are my top scumread at the moment so I want to go full force against you. As I might no be able to vote on the last round, I don't mind to spend all my votes on you this round. I'll come up with a case against within 10 hours. ON is a scummy lurker but, in my opinion, he is more lurky than scummy. And you are still scummier than him 
More lurky than scummy, another excuse.
First post with a lot of effort into it is trying to advance Hopeless over ON:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote:As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
- Lack of scumhunting
- Suspicious unvotes at deadline
- Contradicts himself
Lack of scumhunting+ Show Spoiler +He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 02:44 kushm4sta wrote:
From Hope's posts it's clear that he is not concerned with finding scum. What does he care about instead?
-Will you be here for the deadline?
-Don't waste your votes.
Two topics, both of which I consider to be a total waste of time and a way to feign activity.
Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later.Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 03:45 Mementoss wrote:
@Hopeless stop defending yourself and give us your two best scum reads or your view of the matchups and who you are thinking of voting I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote:
/snip
I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided.
/snip
I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture: - voting prplhz for one post, voting ON for being a lurker, voting me on a gut feeling
- passively letting Kush advance (reason=> wants to see how Hiro is going to handle Kush on round 2)
- not following Kush at all round 2, voting sandroba
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote:And one last thing before studying the MUs. @HopelessOn October 11 2012 11:36 Hopeless1der wrote:
/snip
I'll ask again since no one responded last time:
WILL YOU BE AVAILABLE AROUND THE DEADLINE (YES/NO)? PLEASE SELECT ONE RESPONSE.
Hopeless1der: Yes
Deadline is 11am for me and I have a meeting starting at 9am which should end my business trip. So I'm either going to be in meeting or on the way back to Seoul for the deadline. In the latter case, I should be able to check the thread with my phone. Now that I have answered your question, I would really like you to answer mine: Why are so concerned by people being around at deadline or not ? What are you trying to achieve exactly ? There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 21:00 Mementoss wrote:On October 11 2012 20:59 thrawn2112 wrote:On October 11 2012 20:56 Mementoss wrote:
It bothers me that these 3 players have the most power in town
ON
Hopeless
Da0
None of them used any votes officially, and all have 10 votes remaining. Coming down to the wire any one of them as scum could sway the results. If they're scum and that's their plan then they're pretty stupid because they'd be put in the spotlight for doing that. Not all 3, but it is very possible for one of them to be scum, gaining 2 extra votes after the first round could prove to be a great advantage. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it?
OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6
However, he wasn't convinced enough before to use more than 3 votes, WHATS THIS, oh the situation changed, more people are voting ON than he thought. Now he decides he needs to use ALL his votes, that how convinced he is.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 13 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote:
First of all, I'm disappointed that Hopeless did not advance to the final. Right now, I would like him to be lynched, at least for the confusion he is putting me through. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen today...
I want him to flip so I definitively know if he is town or scum because it is going to bother me for a while. Last game I've been through a lot of WIFOM shit (thank you Kush by the way) and the result was me tunneling the town MVP for almost all game. I don't want this to happen again and I'll try to look for other players for a while. Hopeless explanations make me seriously doubting on my case against him (plus I've said myself that obvious scum is usually town, it might apply here again) but I cannot see him as town yet. Hopeless, I got my eyes on you <3 !
Concerning today's lynch, I don't have any more votes so I have basically no power to change anything. Yet I would like to use my words to convince you to lynch Sandroba over OriginalName.
OriginalName
I think everybody could agree that he is a total lurker. So let's look at the few things we have.
His useless panic vote against is scummy as hell and his explanation for it was weak in my view because he calls me for a post I have made drunk and me backing off from this post later on. I was drunk and I've made a mistake at that time so it was natural for me to back off. But I understand it could be suspicious in another player eye so it could be a valid reason to vote me. Regarding his vote, I think a scum player would have avoided voting like this.
And there it is, that's all we have from him ! I'm saying that it not enough to lynch him today.
Sandroba
Sandroba is also a lurker but he looks scummy enough in my eyes to deserve the lynch. I'm not familiar with his meta but I've been skimming through his filter in the C9++ game and I must say that it looks like night and day when you compare it to his actual filter.
Also, his unexplained hunch for me is a scumtell. I've been looking bad enough (and from my first post apparently) to advance until the semis but he is one of two players to have a town read on me (hello prplhz!). Moreover, he didn't bother to address this point.
Regarding his last post, I was also drunken yesterday, I'm having a big hangover now, most likely I'm going to be drunk tonight again but I'm still trying to invest myself in this game. I imagine he is that disinterested right now because he is scum.
If I had votes right now, I would use them to vote Sandroba. Hence, I recommend you to lynch him.
"His panic vote is scummy as hell but I doubt scum would do this therefore not scum!" - Seems legit. Convincing people he is a total lurker and not mafia. Decides this is the perfect time to mention his scum read on vet sandroba. Wait what, he doesn't want to lynch ON the non vet lurker, but says Sandroba is also a lurker but its scummy for him. WTF. Seriously?
Unexplained hunch is a scumtell. Doesnt explain how.
His meta is different. Also doesn't explain how.
No effort put into this like the effort on hopeless to try and save ON. Hypocrite, obviously biased against sandroba. Makes his whole case up out of nothing to make it look better.
He recommends we lynch sandroba.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 14 2012 09:21 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote:On October 14 2012 03:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
austin are your votes for ON more because you think he's the scummier candidate, or because you are more afraid of sandroba being town and you wouldnt want to lose a town sandroba?
IMO sandroba is scummier than ON, but I am also a coward and I have no problems with a policy lynch... and when you think about it, ON is the perfect policy lynch candidate if there ever was one. I don't want to lose a town sandroba. I'm not convinced either way on his alignment, and he's a big asset if he's town. But I don't want to deal with either having him around late game after this D1, OR having to deal with a replacement catching up on 96 hours and then us having to read the replacement while not having much to go off of from ON's time in thread. To the extent that voting ON for concerns other than "ON scummiest" is a policy lynch, then yeah, I'm in favor of policy lynching him. Right now it's more just weighing what I think of each vs what they each bring. If I'm not convinced on either's alignment, then I'd rather take the chance that we have townsandroba who's useful than townON who isn't right now. If all this meta talk is true, scumsandroba is not particular active and nasty, whereas VE is the first replacement, and I feel like scumVE replacing in for ON might be nastier. So...I'd rather have townsand over townON. I'd rather have scumON dead than scumsand D1. Based on that, I'd rather flip ON if I'm not sure about the two of them. I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ?
More doubt on the lynch.
Part II: Wrong end of the lynch part 2:
On October 15 2012 18:18 Djodref wrote:I would like to elaborate on why we should attempt to lynch prplhz. After looking at prplhz filter, I've found: I know there is nothing much here new but I was already suspicious of prplhz and I'm sure right now that he is scum. I agree that Daoud filter doesn't look much better but, while reading it with my newb townie confirmation biased goggles, I've felt that he may have tried to find scum by looking at vote patterns and lynch mechanics rather than people posts. During R1, he aslo have been OMGUSing almost everybody who was attacking him (me for my early attack on his first posts, Sandroba for his hunch, Kush for voting him). I would expect a newb scum to be more likely to conciliate. All of this could make sense from a newbie town player which doesn't clearly know all the principles of this game (no knowledge of the blue roles for example, ninja voting, etc...). My feeling is that we definitively have a scum between the two but not that the two of them are scum. Honestly, if they were both scum, I would expect them to concede right now. I'm really more confident that prplhz is the scum out of them two. I would be happy to see them passing the potato to each other 
Another weak case that looks like a case just to be looking town and presenting the case.
Also burns his hide just to look pro town.
Part III: Im a Noobie! Guys im friendly town :
+ Show Spoiler +On October 11 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote:On a side note, Daoud really looks like a newb townie. I advice him to be careful with early association cases because I also thought I got the complete scumteam on D1 of my last newbie game In a result I just have been tunneling our town MVP until my death... On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote:I don't want to predict anything for this MU Also the predictions were fucking weird. Acting like he could read the future and shit, maybe its cause he knew what 2 other guys plans were. On October 12 2012 01:03 Djodref wrote:I'll check the thread when I wake up and I hope to be here for the deadline On October 12 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:I just have caught up with the thread on my phone. First I would like to say that the predictions were a (failed) attempt to make my comments look like a starcraft MU preview. Thank you Kush for understanding me and believing in me On October 12 2012 11:24 Djodref wrote:@HopelessIt's just that I didn't realize until late that the votes of ON on me were counting for this round. It felt like I was starting with an handicap but whatever... I don't want to get mislynched so I'll put more efforts in this game so everybody understand I can be a valuable asset for town Unfortunately I have to work this afternoon so you have to give me some more time. On October 12 2012 21:45 Djodref wrote:By the way, I'm going out for the night and I don't know if I would be able to wake up before 11am tomorrow, if you know what I mean On October 13 2012 15:43 Djodref wrote:@prplhzI would really appreciate you sharing with us all the info you have gathered with your questions here and there. I wouldn't mind if it was a long and articulate post. I'm starting to wondering if you are active in your scumhunting or just pretending to be active On October 14 2012 09:47 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 09:28 austinmcc wrote:On October 14 2012 09:21 Djodref wrote:On October 14 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote:On October 14 2012 03:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
austin are your votes for ON more because you think he's the scummier candidate, or because you are more afraid of sandroba being town and you wouldnt want to lose a town sandroba?
IMO sandroba is scummier than ON, but I am also a coward and I have no problems with a policy lynch... and when you think about it, ON is the perfect policy lynch candidate if there ever was one. I don't want to lose a town sandroba. I'm not convinced either way on his alignment, and he's a big asset if he's town. But I don't want to deal with either having him around late game after this D1, OR having to deal with a replacement catching up on 96 hours and then us having to read the replacement while not having much to go off of from ON's time in thread. To the extent that voting ON for concerns other than "ON scummiest" is a policy lynch, then yeah, I'm in favor of policy lynching him. Right now it's more just weighing what I think of each vs what they each bring. If I'm not convinced on either's alignment, then I'd rather take the chance that we have townsandroba who's useful than townON who isn't right now. If all this meta talk is true, scumsandroba is not particular active and nasty, whereas VE is the first replacement, and I feel like scumVE replacing in for ON might be nastier. So...I'd rather have townsand over townON. I'd rather have scumON dead than scumsand D1. Based on that, I'd rather flip ON if I'm not sure about the two of them. I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ? Oh i'm not saying they're both town or both scum. It's more just ... if we're going to kill one, and I don't really think either is super scummy, I'd rather take the safer lynch. I want a townsand around more, and I want a scumON around less, so ... I'm more willing to lynch ON. Ok, I see. I had a little misunderstanding here. By the way if you don't really think either is super scummy, it's too bad you didn't use your votes to make scummier people advance in the previous stages then (it's just a joke, I've seen your explanations for it) Personally, I would still vote for Sandroba if I could but I guess it depends on your level of conviction for him to be scum. On October 14 2012 11:19 Djodref wrote:LOL So is this standard to have a total lurker in every scumteam ? It's the case in all my games so far
Holy fuck, Im done with all the smileys, you get the point he wants to look like harmless friendly old townie djo.
On October 13 2012 15:43 Djodref wrote:
@HiroPro
I might be a newbie and my case might be bad but I'm at least investing myself in this game. So I wouldn't mind you showing me how to make a good case because I'm not able to find any so far in your filter. I would even go as far as there is not so much content in your posts. Also, from what I understand, ON is on your scumlist, but I think we can safely assume that have more than one scum in this game. Who are your top scumreads now that you are dropping me ?
On October 16 2012 23:05 Djodref wrote:Honestly, I don't know. I hope to be on their tracks But I would say I'm rather safe because I'm a newbie. I've had some time at work today so I've checked the filters and I've prepared some cases and a last will because I was bored. I wanted to post it before the deadline for the sake of the last will ^^ I also think it would give my cases more appeal because I'm on a different timezone and I feel a little left out. And people are here for the deadline so I hope there is going to be some discussion about it.
His night 2 posts looked really townie. But they are easy to construct as mafia. Da0d is currently leading, and although Djo wanted nothing to do with his lynch, he isn't trying to convince anyone. He did not try to push Hiro even after he thought my hopeless post made sense. Also, he posted early out of excitment or WIFOM warning, because he knew he wasn't going to die.
Djo, not as fucking townie as everyone thinks. Moving him up my list.
In conclusion recap:
-Hard defense on Ro3 ON vs Hopeless, uses all votes
-Hard defense on ON , trying to convince people to vote sandroba
-puttin doubt on ON lynch
-Double standards on different lurkers, ON vs Hiro/hopeless/me early
-weak case on prplhz, doesn't attempt to look outside prplhz and da0d even though he thinks da0d is town and has a good chance at being lynched
-Trying really hard to look town and harmless, calling himself a noob and bad and smiley faces.
-Isn't pushing his town read day 3 or his scum reads
-pretty much has been floating by without suspicion because of ON's panic votes. WIFOM, ON coulda been bused and coulda been used to make djo look townie.
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EPT
