EPTAperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition - Page 26
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:32 Mementoss wrote: My thoughts on Austinmcc: When I think of everyone in the game the person that sticks out most to me as scum is austinmcc. I realize that most of these points were explained by austin, but any decent scum player can explain things after the fact of doing them. So I figured id sum up my thoughts in this post. 1. Goes from not thinking Keirthia is not scummy, to super scummy in less than 2 hours apart. He doesn't call Keirathi scummy however, he just finds it weird, even though the way austinmcc is posting it seems like he thinks he caught keirathi in a lie. Doesn't vote for him. + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 01:09 austinmcc wrote: The good start bit is relative to other recent games. It may seem dead, but, comparatively, this game started much quicker. So you don't see Keirathi's early play as scummy, you find it poorly executed town play. I didn't find it scummy and asked Drazerk whether he actually does, which was not a rhetorical question (The other ones, sure, but the final question to Drazerk is for realsies). You even want "more explanation" from Drazerk in the future, which is what I wanted because I didn't see Keirathi's entrance as third party. I know that Drazerk gave some comments on why an uninvested survivor would give up so easily, but look at his actual vote:The vote lays out survivor/third party/idiot. What makes Drazerk sure it's the first two and not the third? I'm wondering why, if it can be any of the three, he's so focused on the third party options. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but Drazerk and third party have a history in themed games, and want to know why he's zoning in on third party options rather than what would appear to be bad townie. It's not that I can't see what Drazerk is saying, but I want to know where that option for Keirathi's play went. + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 03:18 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, I'm a little troubled by this when I look back through your explanation: When you unvote, you specifically note that you want real, meaningful opinions that people can be held accountable for. So you're interested in getting discussion going in general. This seems to not match up. If you wanted people to give opinions, how was your goal accomplished when only Mattchew responded? Now you seem to be responding to Drazerk that you were only concerned with Mattchew and not other people's opinions. The initial justification says you wanted opinions, now you don't even want them. Back to wanting discussion. Why the two inconsistent explanations? You may think this has been covered ad nauseum, but some of your explanations aren't really matching up. 2. Keeps implying finding keirathi but is too scared to actually place a vote on him, even after complaining about people not consolidating on the votes. Wouldn't austin want to place a vote on keirathi and start pushing him now?? Nope. No fucks were given by austin about keirathis lynch. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote: Alright, done some rereading. My number 1 concern at this point is the number of side squabbles and useless votes that we've got. Previous votecount had 6 people with votes, and I think we're still about as spread out as we were before. Stuff like: Drazerk/snb very interested in each other. Both voting each other, in part, based on what seems to be "He should understand my play better." I don't want to lynch either of them today, and telling me that some other player should understand you better doesn't make me want to lynch that other guy. The votes feel entirely wasted. ghost's vote is wasted. Votes keirathi for trying too hard, never engages anyone else who's talking about keirathi. nisani201 still has a vote on Drazerk for Drazerk's initial response to Keirathi. Followed by very little else and Can't single people out for not contributing, but those votes look like they've been made without any attempt to convince anyone else, and they don't feel like they're serving a purpose. JH, how is PTP3 pushing you to play this way? Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote: Those jumps are based on what you did in the meantime. Here's my initial post: I didn't see your unvote for weak reasons as scummy. Drazerk had just posted that it was third party or idiot, I didn't find it to be telling at all because the reasoning behind the vote in the first place didn't seem strong. Then after that post, you give your explanation and justification. THAT is what I feel is scummy, reminds me of scum. I'm not concerned about you unvoting based on some weak comments from matt (What drazerk mentioned and what I didn't find scummy), I'm concerned about you based on your later explanation where you claim to have wanted discussion and opinions yet unvote before any of that ever appears. Right now, I'm scummy on you. I'm not going to lead a crusade to lynch you because the way you explained a plan reminds of what a scum player in another game did, however. For now I'm looking elsewhere for today's lynch, and I'm watching you. I'm alright with the way you discussed Ghost when talking to Gonzaw, I don't think someone can get a free pass for a terrible vote and then not pushing it at all. If you want me to keep looking at you, fine. What's up with this? You've been doing more in thread, but it seems like you're getting on JH for saying he's doing exactly what you've said you're doing. Why is it fine for you to wait to scumhunt until you've got enough to make a case, but it's not alright for JH to wait before pushing someone? 3. The vote on imperfection when mattchew told him to. It wasn't serious, but yet he has been withholding voting keirathi all day but can vote iamperfection, I know it was a joke, but it was an odd post, lumping nisani ghost and iamperfection into one boat. Maybe to confuse people into bandwagoning on another? Clearly you could differentiate between them. Austin never bothered to comment on iamperfections rockband meta even though we just finished that game a week ago and he was in it. Avoiding the fact? Wants to limit the discussion on Iamperfection? Hell he didn't even mention him at all before this joke post. 4. After pointing out keirathis scumminess all day, austin sheeps under gonzaws wing and votes jinglehell for weak reasoning, and then unvotes him for even weaker reasoning which struck me again as not giving a fuck who was lynched. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 02:14 austinmcc wrote: I don't think that ghost is hiding something (The hiro posts are odd but not...hiding something? A connection to look at if either flips), and I agree that Keirathi is missing part of why ghost voted for him. But dropping a vote on someone, walking away, and never engaging the thread when there's active discussion on your vote is not a thing I like. With most of us pretty inactive, it doesn't stick out as much as it would under different circumstances, but it's still not town conduct. Nisani and iamperfection both just look similar to me. I don't have experience playing with nisani, and their play is so similar this game that I'm not overly confident in choosing between them, and I find it unlikely both would be scum. I'd rather vote elsewhere and then see how nisani and iamperfection differentiate themselves over time. ##Vote: JingleHell Thinking about thishas me convinced. If he really feels like he played poorly in PTP3, then the solution is to address the "poorly" part of that, rather than the "played" part. Being non-participatory isn't a better route. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 05:10 austinmcc wrote: Huwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? This just can't be a scum post. Congrats on being town. ##Unvote + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 05:17 austinmcc wrote: No, you think scumJH could actually be making that argument? 4. Town reads on Mattchew and Gonzaw. Explained to the max. This just gives me the wrong feeling and reminds me of Palmar from rockband to a bigger extreme. I know he was asked to do this, but the extent he did it, espeically on day 1 town reads. It seems like he actually knows their alignments. This time coulda been spent scum hunting, or provoking some sort of discussion. No one was even thinking of voting either of these two atm, so why give a huge town read on them? Who are you convincing? Who does this help for day 1? + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 04:26 austinmcc wrote: On Mattchew, it's a couple of his posts. In particular, this one: I'd just mentioned not liking drazerk/snb being so focused on each other:The fact that Mattchew was similarly critical gives me a townie feel. Drazerk's questions the last couple of pages have been good. I hope he would be playing the same way regardless of my comment or matt's comment, I don't think they influenced him, but he and snb being so focused on each other wasn't really helping town based on the reasoning they were providing. His iamperfection question to me felt townie. It's...an odd way to phrase something as scum? Like, you can just say "What is your read?" or "Would you vote iamperfection?" Instead he asks why I'm not voting with him, just an odd little bit of creativity. scumMatt from what I'm seen is either disinterested or...claims scum. Creative questions don't fit the bill for either of those. He's continued to pursue iamperfection, in a noticeably different way than the early voters that I've been critical of. Whereas ghost/nisani just left the thread, and iamperfection stayed focused on ghost, Mattchew has been actively commenting on other matters, has been asking questions to others, has been trying to get iamperfection lynched. It stands out so differently from behavior that I'm finding scummy in others. The gonzaw read is weaker, but the way he returned to thread feels like he was being gonzaw-y. Spammy, finding lots of little stuff, talking about it. In particular, things like this:I like finding odd interactions or posts. This was one of those...interesting finds. Not necessarily scummy, but worth noting. He noted it, explained why he was interested, and then went further later in the post to vote JH after adding in some other stuff. I like that he pulled out a weird interaction, didn't completely disregard it, didn't blast anyone for it, but used it to look further at someone. He asked this which was a good question and something I was going to ask until I saw he'd already done so. He also comes off townie in the way he addresses mementoss here: As I read it, he's concerned with mementoss's post on me. Instead of straight-up saying that, or directly confronting mementoss, he just sort of asks this minor question. What are you doing with it now? It shows me that he's trying to piece things together, that he's actively thinking about alignments. He could have burst in with "this post makes me feel weird," but he doesn't, and dangling that question out without giving a full read comes of townie to me. 5. Finally votes keirathi!! But with only 45 minutes till lynch deadline.... Why?! WHY?! When he has clearly been on him and thought he was scum all day he waits till 45 minutes left to try and lynch him. I'll tell you why, because Iamperfection his teamate the godfather the jack of all trades glados was about to die. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote: Okay, finally seeing some differentiation in some of our early voters. Right now I'm liking ghost's recent outburst and he replaces nisani as the towniest of the three. I actually really like this point:I was so focused on Keirathi's explanations for his mattchew vote that I overlooked this. It does seem off that the contrived case to get discussion going would have more work put into it, and some reliance on meta, when compared to keirathi's actual vote. Especially when players who have played with nisani said he seems townie based off past games. For some reason it makes this post hang in my mind: Keirathi notes that he went way back into Mattchew's games to be complete, for the case that was intended to generate discussion. Keirathi notes that he spends a lot of time in filters even as scum. But now it's just 5 minutes: I'm assuming keirathi didn't time himself, but this + the explanation of the mattchew case/vote + things like this + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 01:10 Keirathi wrote: The difference is there's less than 1/4 of the day left, and JH hadn't done much at all so far besides making excuses as to why he isn't playing to his town meta. ##Vote: Keirathi 6. Heres the cheery on top, Austin at the first of this quote says hes considering me active scum team. He spends the whole post on me, just defending himself. He never touches any scum motivation when writing about me. The purpose of this post was not to get people to think im scum, it was to put himself in the clear. At the end of his post he contradicts the start of his post and says im not getting a strong scum read on him. + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 03:45 austinmcc wrote: Concerning Mementoss Gonzaw, he and keirathi are sort of right up there with each other for the people I'm considering for active scum. It's a couple little things: (1) His comments on me feel slightly forcedI can't see what Drazerk is saying. I think the game is getting off to a good start. I don't explain why the unvote isn't scummy well enough for mementoss's liking. I lack logic. I am trying to make Drazerk look bad. I addres some of those points here: See GSL Open II for slow start, which I'd just been killed in. See Drazerk's vote for an option that Keirathi was an "idiot," yet he never really addressed why he was dismissing that option and finding Keirathi to be third party. At least not that I've seen. Note also that in this post I say I didn't find Keirathi's conduct scummy. I say this. I didn't find Keirathi's early play scummy. (2) By the time mementoss posts this, I was finding Keirathi scummy because of the EXPLANATION that he was giving for his mattchew vote/unvote:+ Show Spoiler + I look further into Keirathi On October 01 2012 03:18 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, I'm a little troubled by this when I look back through your explanation: When you unvote, you specifically note that you want real, meaningful opinions that people can be held accountable for. So you're interested in getting discussion going in general. This seems to not match up. If you wanted people to give opinions, how was your goal accomplished when only Mattchew responded? Now you seem to be responding to Drazerk that you were only concerned with Mattchew and not other people's opinions. The initial justification says you wanted opinions, now you don't even want them. Back to wanting discussion. Why the two inconsistent explanations? You may think this has been covered ad nauseum, but some of your explanations aren't really matching up. On October 01 2012 05:03 austinmcc wrote: There's just a little disconnect there between wanting discussion and being happy to discuss Mattchew with others and then "why do I need someone else's opinion on my case." Like...if your case was meant as a tool to get discussion, then it doesn't matter much what mattchew says or how he responds, because your primary concern is discussion and not his alignment. His response gives you a starting point for MORE discussion, asking people how they feel about his response, etc. Scummy motivation? Just look at your explanation, that you wanted to stop setup speculation and move into something else, generate discussion, because it would help town. RAWR, i am keirathi, the hero who saved town from a slow game, scum would never do that, feed me your town cred! Ymmv, but I'm pretty clearly focused on Keirathi's explanations for the entire thing, not the ease at which he unvoted, which is what I was initially defending/not finding scummy:I'm not concerned with the vote/unvote in the posts that have happened between mementoss's case and this, I'm concerned with Keirathi's explanation for the whole Mattchew shebang, that he wanted opinions yet stopped before he got them, and then stated he didn't need anyone else's opinion. So I don't get mementoss's post: we may just disagree that I completely switched stances. Which is fine. I said I didn't find Keirathi's early play scummy. After looking at his explanation further, I did. I'm probably splitting hairs in trying to separate the vote/unvote from the explanation, but that's because I still don't find the vote/unvote with ease scummy, but I DO find the explanation scummy. They point in different ways for me. But the bolded part here gets stuck in my head. I don't see any post concerning me "flip flopping." I don't see a comment in his initial vote on me about that. I don't see a comment at any point while I'm going back and forth with Keirathi about me flip flopping. This is the first time I see it, and I have no idea what it's referencing. This is ODD. It gives off scummy vibes, because it indicates that mementoss misremembers what he was calling me out for (not focused on actually calling me out, more focused on just making a case), or, the more paranoid option, that this is part of some planned attack and there's a post that should have come, calling me a flip-flopper, but never did. Neither option gives me a townie feeling. (3) Then he's got this post as well:That post does read weird, because he's reading it seriously. Like I said to keirathi, + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 04:12 austinmcc wrote: Found Mattchew's question to be real but posed in a silly way (What is your read on iamperfection?). Gave him a real answer, but started with a silly beginning. On October 02 2012 04:34 austinmcc wrote: Oh, no. It was meant as a silly response and vote, not that I'm finding him more scummy than the others. That question isn't "Why am I voting iamperfection? Let me tell you!" It was "Why am I joining you in voting for iamperfection when these other two look almost the same?" Not actually hopping on the wagon. Mattchew's question looked silly. I gave a silly answer. I am sometimes silly in thread. But mementoss pulls this up later: Read my vote/unvote. I'm not sheeping onto iamperfection because Mattchew asks me to. I vote him as a JOKE, unvote him, and then ask why I should be lynching iamperfection over ghost/nisani, and why I find the three to be similar. I do not know how this is interpreted as me jumping on a wagon. If I were jumping on a wagon, I wouldn't unvote and ask why I was lynching one instead of the other two. I was joking and then seriously asking mattchew why he was on iamperfection over others. Again, it's this weird disconnect where mementoss doesn't quite seem to be reading my responses. Or he just dislikes my responses but never really voices that when they come out. I misread him in Rock Band as scum when he was town, and I'm not getting as strong a scum read here, but flip flop posts that don't actually exist, not really reading my posts but continuing to just poke at me don't result in a townie feel. This quip stuck out to me as well, just as very interesting: (Mementoss, why is Gonzaw the N1 kill? I'd like to see your reasoning behind this statement) Beyond that, I agree with all three of these:I remember him being around a good bit, I remember some posts of his, but I'm not sure that I would if he didn't attack me. He kind of blended in, and there were some major points (Mattchew trying to drum up iamperfection lynch, the JH discussion, the ghost/keirathi bit at the end) where he's just not seeming concerned. But yet he didn't move off of iamperfection, and attacked him early, and also responded to keirathi about iamperfection's meta. A lot of his posts on me just confuse me. They don't give me a townie vibe, but he's picking up on things that I would probably pick up on as well. The joke-vote looks really odd when it's just text and I didn't put a disclaimer as to what I was doing. But it feels like he's detached from actually pushing me, just like he was detached from pushing iamperfection. And that "flip-flopping" comment...I can't figure out where that comes from. Am I being overly paranoid thinking there was some sequence of posts he thought he'd made? I'm still more sold on Keirathi as the active scum. But mementoss is my secondary candidate, and if I'm being purely speculative, one of the people I could most see being third party. It's the only way I can really rectify my read based on his general play AND the fact that he voted for scum. So I want to keep an eye on him even though he voted iamperfection. 7. Is aware he plays scummy on day 1, but has no motivation to change it. This is really just an excuse for acting scummy while being scum. I gotta go now. But that is all I have. Austin has had some townie posts in his filter I will admit, but the strange way he goes about things makes me think he is scum. His contradictions that he doesn't think are contradictions make me think he is scum. Long quote but I figure it makes this easier. I group 1, 2, the first 4, and 5 together, concerning my suspicions of Keirathi. Keirathi + Show Spoiler + I missed the time period where Keirathi posted his case on mattchew, then drazerk went after Keirathi, that little bit. When I first read that, I saw people attacking Keirathi for removing his vote too quickly. I didn't find that scummy, because it didn't feel like too much of a real suspicion. Again, I don't find an easy unvote scummy if the vote wasn't based on much. So there's me townie on Keirathi. But at that point, he's one of the people in game that has a filter you can make something out of. When I actually sit down and look at the filter, not just the unvote, I read his explanations for his conduct as contradictory. I wanted to get discussion and opinions --> Matt's answer was enough, I don't need opinions. However, I DON'T find all contradictions everywhere to be scummy. Someone in a newbie game I was in changes their stance on the value of no lynching, others found that change scummy, I wrote: On June 13 2012 22:23 austinmcc wrote: I don't read those posts as contradictory, believe the second one clarifies the first and explains that, while he'd consider a NL, the standard is higher than "Town is lynching someone that isn't one of my top couple reads." That said, even if the two statements are entirely contradictory, I don't really see anything scummy in that. More inclined to see contradictions concerning votes and reads as scummy, where someone has stated one thing but then has to take a party line, rather than super early statements concerning a no lynch. There's no agenda to push on that issue. On June 14 2012 03:37 austinmcc wrote: They can be, depending on what they concern, and when they occur. See the italicized above, although I should have more explicitly qualified the bolded bit. If someone had barged into the thread yesterday saying "I love no lynches" and then "I hate no lynches" in the very next post, that's not scummy to me. There's no debate here (nobody is proposing we NL), it's not important at this time (start of day, no NL proposal). There's no scummy reason to swap between those two statements on that particular topic at this particular time. I want to know WHY Keirathi's explanations are contradictory. His explanation still doesn't really satisfy me. Like, if you're just trying to get people active and it doesn't work, fine, unvote and move on. I can accept that, because I've yet to develop the skill to create discussion out of a dead thread. But the fact that he makes that response about not needing other people's opinions, that gives me a scummy feel, because it's almost directly contradictory to what the goals behind his plan were. Here's my plan. Here's why I'm doing my plan (get discussion/opinions). Later on, I don't need opinions. That's not a townie contradiction to me, that shows me that your explanation you gave for why you did something was false. Why would a townie lie or slip up about his intentions? Again, reminded me of Talismania. I wanted to do x. No, I wanted to do y. If your major contribution to thread early on is this one thing, Talis's plan or Keirathi's mattchew case/vote, I'm going to be suspicious if you can't give me a straight answer as to why you're doing what you're doing. At that point, I'm scummy on Keirathi. But I'm worried that I'm overanalogizing to talis in can't believe. To some extent, I'm finding Keirathi scummy because talis was scum. They're not doing the exact same thing, talis proposed this plan and then couldn't explain what it was for. Keirathi actually DID something, did that case/vote, and then couldn't explain why. They're not quite the same, but it makes me read scummy on Keirathi yet be wary that i'm lynching him because it feels like talis. I think you can see that in the 2nd quoted post under point 2. When he pokes at me to update my read, I look through him again, and I find what feels like ANOTHER contradictory stance. He wants to sit back and ask questions and update reads later, but gets on JH's case about wanting to sit back and wait to build stronger cases. I agree that it's not too helpful to sit back and wait, and that it can provide cover for scum, but Keirathi doesn't seem to notice that he's claiming to do basically the same thing. I think there have been occasions where players have called out others in this thread for something they're doign (Gonzaw D1 on lurkers/non-participators), and they almost always note "I know I'm doing this myself, but blah blah." Keirathi didn't do that. So yeah. I should vote him. I should push him. I don't. That IS scummy. But I sit on it until ghost votes. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here, I can give you guys my thought process for earlier in the day, being worried about overanalogizing to talis, voting only after I saw another contradiction with the JH comment AND someone else found other parts of Keirathi's play scummy. One of the newbie guides has that..Ver? quote that I like where he mentions that he and someone else found a guy scummy but for different reasons. WHENEVER I see that happen, I jump on it. If I find Keirathi scummy for X and Y, and someone else is noticing Z and finding him scummy for Z, then it makes me feel really good about my read. The moment that happens, I'm absolutely willing to vote Keirathi. Also, nobody seems to have explained this: If I vote Keirathi because iamperfection is about to be lynched, why don't I really try to force a switch? I vote Keirathi with 50 minutes to go. I ask Mattchew this with 45 to go, because Mattchew had mentioned earlier that he liked what I was saying about Keirathi's contradictions: On October 02 2012 07:14 austinmcc wrote: Mattchew, if you return, how are you feeling about keirathi's conversation with ghost? But I don't push a swap. Mattchew even explicitly posts this: On October 02 2012 07:55 Mattchew wrote: draz you there? i am thinking of switching to keirathi who wants to play told ya so if iamperf flips town If I'm scum, WHY AM I NOT JUMPING ON THIS? If I'm scum, why don't I push him to vote keirathi? If I'm voting Keirathi so that I can get a swap off iamperfection, why don't I take any action towards that? Here is one of the iamperfection voters saying he might swap to my guy, and yet I don't say "YAYA SWAP SWAP!" If you think my late vote is scummy because I wanted to get keirathi lynched instead of scumbuddy iamperfection, then you need to look not just at the vote itself but at my conduct AFTER the vote. I feel like that's the main accusation against me. So the other responses I'll make shorter. Point 3 - Yes. My joke apparently didn't come across. And no, I didn't mention iamperfection until I was asked about him. But I respond honestly to Mattchew's question, and I do note that nisani seems the towniest of the three to me. I don't entirely not differentiate. When ghost comes back into the thread late, I update that read and note that he's now the towniest of the three in my mind. I think mementoss is stretching me not differentiating. Point 4 - I still don't know what mementoss meant. I had posts on JH, didn't know why JH's reaction to PTP3 where he felt his play hurt town/he was scum MVP yielded basically no play. I don't know where mementoss was getting me sheeping Gonzaw. Point 4 part 2 -Mementoss is concerned with...how in depth I was? When I initially said I found them townie, I wasn't in depth. I was then asked to give more reasoning. On October 02 2012 04:26 austinmcc wrote: I did. I'm wordy. But I respond wordy and quickly, and I give my reasoning. Point 6 - Yes, I thought mementoss was scummy. No, I couldn't quite explain his iamperfection vote. That's why I was leaning third party at the end. That was the only way to reconcile both his conduct and the vote. Point 7 - I seem to always get a couple votes D1. Usually it's because I'm not as active as marv thinks I should be, and he whips people up into voting for me (See: Can't believe, bureacracy, rock band, Liquid City). I don't saying I PLAY scummy, just that i seem to LOOK scummy. And the people I look scummy to are good and getting votes on me. tl;dr Look at my reasoning on Keirathi throughout the day. See if it makes sense to you. I vote after ghost, partially because I feel very confident when another person finds my scumread scummy for different reasons. Also, if I'm trying to get a swap off iamperfection, why don't I push for it? Why don't I engage mattchew when he explicitly states he's considering swapping his vote? I make dumb posts sometimes. Apparently my joke-vote didn't get the joke part across, and looks especially bad when I joke-vote someone who flips scum. I mention townreads on Gonzaw and Mattchew, not in depth. I get asked to explain them. I go in depth only after that question, I don't bust out "HERE IS A BOOK ON WHY THEY ARE TOWNIE GAIZ" I'm concerned about mementoss but can't fully find scum motivations. That's correct. That's why he was my biggest third party read, and why I was trying to get discussion on that yesterday. I don't claim to play scummy. I seem to look scummy. Mainly to marv. In fact, it's pretty much always marv just pounding the drums and getting votes on me. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 04 2012 00:19 Drazerk wrote: If you bring up the player list / colours I will slap you... Wat? On October 03 2012 08:00 Hassybaby wrote: Doug Rattmann (Mementoss) was killed by an element that did not like the human skeleton. (Everything is flavour) Welcome to Aperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition! You are Doug Rattmann, the Persistent Jailer. You are one of the few survivors of the deadly nuerotoxin attack, and your rat dens have been a safe haven. Each night you may target a player to hide in the rat den, roleblocking them but protecting them from 1 kp. This Rat den will stay in the players location on the player list. If a person's position in the list changes to a position of a Rat Den that player will be jailed (for the first time they are there only). Only 2 Rat Dens may be active at a time ( you decide which ones to remove). you win with the town Apparently there are roles that swap player positions, and this is important to other roles. You...don't want to keep track of that information? | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 04 2012 01:22 Drazerk wrote: Not really Care to explain? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
I'm operating under the assumption that he's a VI type role at this point. If we don't run out of scum with the people who are suspicious without seeming to beg for it, we can always kill him as a backup plan. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
Behavioral analysis first then focus on roles | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 04 2012 01:29 Drazerk wrote: Bus drivers copy cats lightning rods and so many more things could exist past this and at the end of the day they may only swap the names on a stupid list. Behavioral analysis first then focus on roles Sometimes I hate reading your posts. I never know if I've found the information you're trying to convey or if there's no information/you're dicking with people. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
also hey guys, i'm back in switzerland i just got mislynched in the other game i'm in and i'd like that not to happen again. i also haven't slept in something like 30 hours. im guessing the role list number swapping thing is probably also a bus driver or something. i read a bunch of filters. i'm not sure if i'm finding the right parts though. i think austin and gonzaw are maybe town, austin's attempts to explain things at length and reasonably feel well in line both with his town meta and with good townie behavior in general and gonzaw hasn't been tunnelling me even though he could and usually does. that gonzaw reason is a pretty bad reason though. i still want to kill drazerk. can someone please explain to me why it's okay for him to play like he is? that said, I think nisani is the best lynch at the moment. his filter just doesn't feel town to me, and i agree with whoever it was who said his little "i am null on iamperfection i want to hear more reads etc" thing sounds like how scum talk about each other when forced to. also i've thought about it and i think that saying this is a good idea right now: my night action was successful but i don't have complete control over who it targets. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
Mattchew Crossfire99 - coffin'd iamperf Ghost - cause of iamperf's pushing, i looked at iamperf's profile and i think this was his first scum game and my own read Not lynching today Hiro - other vote on iamperf SNB - I have a decently strong town read on SNB Gonzaw - His posting displays his thought process and a ton of second guessing himself, i feel this is very very (if not impossible) to fake as scum when you actually have more information than town. Probably wouldn't lynch Keirathi - I honestly don't think he would have been that vehemently opposed to a The austin/draz category cause he's left over and i don't have a read Drazerk - because it wouldn't be based on a real read, it would just be based on Austin - cause im lazy and not reading into him Who we should be lynching Jinglehell - tried to push me as scum based on my case on iamperf. I feel like this was more of an attempt to discredit me and the case I made than an actual push on me. Also, he gets really mad at gonzaw. He also is proven to be actively lurking on multiple occasions now Nisani - cause he's scum + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 06:33 Nisani201 wrote: Alright I've finally caught up on the thread. First of all, I understand what jingle is saying about being discouraged to be aggressive because of playing a lot of shitty games. I've played plenty of bad games as town and they don't push me to play better. See learned helplessness. I also think it's unfair to call out Jingle for not scumhunting because he's been under fire this entire game. I don't think he's scum. I'm null on perfection-- I don't like how he's only talking about ghost but other than that he doesn't have anything else scummy about him. I'd like to hear about his reads on other people. I still don't understand why we're letting Drazerk get away with playing an incredibly shitty game. He has *way* too many null reads and is barely contributing. I'm going to keep my vote on him. I mean just look through his filter and you'll see how little he's contributed. Gonzaw is someone I'm going to spend some more time looking into. Something feels off about him. ##vote Nisani201 | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Nisani, what exactly do you like about the case on s&b? also, I'm going to be kind of inactive until friday. i'll still be posting but just busy with work and hosting liquid city. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On October 04 2012 01:52 strongandbig wrote: i still want to kill drazerk. can someone please explain to me why it's okay for him to play like he is? Why? You never explain exactly why you want to lynch Drazerk, you always just put some one-liners about how "he's playing a shitty game" and "he doesn't care about town". Why don't you make a case and tell us exactly why he's scum? I already explained a lot of things that made me wary of Drazerk being scum and seem more of a towntell, so why don't you go and explain to me why those things make him scum instead of town? I.E: Explain why the things he did further a scum agenda and it's not just something a town Drazerk would do that said, I think nisani is the best lynch at the moment. his filter just doesn't feel town to me, and i agree with whoever it was who said his little "i am null on iamperfection i want to hear more reads etc" thing sounds like how scum talk about each other when forced to. Why didn't you push him yesterday? You mentioned him as scummy lots of times but never paid attention to him. You aren't really caring about the game, your function is basically posting "comments" and then disappearing. You comment how you want to kill Drazerk, then disappear. You comment how Nisani is scummy, then you disappear. You are never trying to discuss anything at all. I just skimmed that game you were just misslynched, and look at that! The 1st thing you did in the whole game was start a discussion and discuss with people/interact with them. You posted coherently and legible, you don't post your trollish "posts full of one-liners" that lack proper punctuation and you don't spend 100% of your time saying "kill X" without expanding your read or explaining yourself. Really the differences in your play both these games are astonishing, do you have an explanation for that or are you just bored scum in this one? P.S: I've read your filter again and you do have 1 post where you do the "fail punctuation and post all the irrelevant thoughts I have", here Still, after and before that you showed more effort in consolidating your posts and contributing something to the game, here you havent. also i've thought about it and i think that saying this is a good idea right now: my night action was successful but i don't have complete control over who it targets. Fuck I hate it when people do this. Now i have to wonder all game whether this is true or if you are scum that just took the chance to claim made a night action to misdirect people. On October 03 2012 23:07 austinmcc wrote: On searching for roleblocked people WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? Anyone who was roleblocked shouldn't be claiming, and should easily understand this. Apparently there's a role that swaps players on the player list, and anyone who swaps into whoever Mementoss targeted's spot on the list would be JKed. So claiming rb = probably claiming JK = giving mafia knowledge about protections. I don't see a town purpose to having that info in thread. How is the player list swapping important even if we know who Mementos jailed? Maybe I'm not understanding it fully though Also austin....what else? You haven't mentioned Jingle's and Keirathi's moves against me nor my cases against S&B/Nisani On October 03 2012 14:38 Nisani201 wrote: Gonzaw I like your case on snb. However your case on me makes no sense. Mattchew you have been making a lot of sense lately. What do you think of snb? Also I still think drazerk is scum, if him or snb aren't on the same team then I'm certain they're anti-town Why does my case not make sense? Nisani, what do you think of any of the other players you haven't mentioned at all this game? (ghost, austin, Crossfire, etc) Also, what do you think of snb? PRE-EDIT: @Mattchew: What exactly makes you have a strong town-read on S&B? I'm curious. I don't think Jingle would be this aggressive and "active" as scum. He's all over the place and is making such "obvious" mistakes (going against you for shitty reasons, then tunneling me all freaking game, etc) that I doubt he'd willingly make those actions as scum. He seems much more like overconfident townie that "already figured the scum team out" and doesn't care about anything else but his ego. I don't think his attitude and activity is something he'd fake as scum. Remember that at some points he was just posting and posting and posting and posting. That'd take A LOT of trouble as scum to fake, specially if it doesn't seem to further any real scum agenda other than "keep shitting on gonzaw/Mattchew", which like I said isn't really a good scum agenda anyways. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Why are S&B and Nisani acting so similar in this game?  | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 04 2012 02:56 gonzaw wrote: How is the player list swapping important even if we know who Mementos jailed? Maybe I'm not understanding it fully though Mementoss doesn't jail a PLAYER. He jails a number on the player list (as I read it). He ... CREATES a jail in a spot. Anyone with a role that can swap players should have already been paying attention, but if you weren't, you need to. Effectively, anyone that can swap players around can now be a JK, because they can swap a player into the spot that mementoss created a jail on. It also indicates that there's a good bit of importance on positions in the player list. I guess I won't keep track in thread, but I don't see the harm of it, because everyone should be aware now that they need to be keeping track of things themselves. In a normal game, I'd pay 0 attention to the positions in the list of players and wouldn't think to note it. Here, we need to. Also austin....what else? You haven't mentioned Jingle's and Keirathi's moves against me nor my cases against S&B/Nisani Hold ooooooonnnnnnnnn. I spent a bunch of time trying to be clear in my response to mementoss's case. Haven't really gotten around to working through the cases and votes so far today.I am 100% certain JH is town. Short of me getting an unframeable DT check on him or something and him claiming scum in thread, I'm not willing to vote him. I still have you as a townread. I'll look over the cases and your filter more, but right now I don't want to vote for you and I don't want you on the chopping block. But I've seen a couple suspicions and it's worth looking at. Keirathi I still think is scummy. Nobody seems to share that belief? Except ghost still maybe? GHOST. Y U NO POST OVERNIGHT? Y U LURK AGAIN? As to snb and nisani, I need to double check the other games that snb is in right now. I remember him being entirely inactive in GSL Open II, and he might have been modkilled there? If that's the case, then I'm less worried about his activity but I've been writing him off and not reading through his posts much. I'll go look at em and see if there's enough to generate a read. Nisani...kind of in the same boat? I'll look at him. If Keirathi is not a legitimate lynch today, then off the top of my head I'd prefer a nisani or drazerk lynch. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
i'm having an off week in mafia i guess. basically i get really mad that no one ever seems to care that drazerk doesn't try when he is town. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I just can't get over how 1) he accuses Nisani of being wishy-washy towards iamperfection and 2) says thats what what he would do as scum, when thats EXACTLY what he had done this game. When he said that, I thought "Hey, thats a reasonable thing to accuse Nisani for. Lets check gonzaw's filter and see how he interacted with iamp." And it was literally exactly the same thing he was accusing Nisani of. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 04 2012 02:38 Mattchew wrote: Gonzaw - His posting displays his thought process and a ton of second guessing himself, i feel this is very very (if not impossible) to fake as scum when you actually have more information than town. Who we should be lynching Jinglehell - tried to push me as scum based on my case on iamperf. I feel like this was more of an attempt to discredit me and the case I made than an actual push on me. Also, he gets really mad at gonzaw. He also is proven to be actively lurking on multiple occasions now Huh? So Gonzaw is not that scummy for behavior that people have bitched at me about some in this game? Not directly, but that was kind of the impression I got from some of the commentary on my posts. On October 04 2012 02:56 gonzaw wrote: I don't think Jingle would be this aggressive and "active" as scum. He's all over the place and is making such "obvious" mistakes (going against you for shitty reasons, then tunneling me all freaking game, etc) that I doubt he'd willingly make those actions as scum. He seems much more like overconfident townie that "already figured the scum team out" and doesn't care about anything else but his ego. I don't think his attitude and activity is something he'd fake as scum. Remember that at some points he was just posting and posting and posting and posting. That'd take A LOT of trouble as scum to fake, specially if it doesn't seem to further any real scum agenda other than "keep shitting on gonzaw/Mattchew", which like I said isn't really a good scum agenda anyways. Gonzaw, still trying to discredit anything I say, even though I'm not even close to the only person who saw it, still making personal attacks, and seems really damn confident in my townieness. On October 04 2012 03:09 austinmcc wrote: I am 100% certain JH is town. Short of me getting an unframeable DT check on him or something and him claiming scum in thread, I'm not willing to vote him. Austin is also scarily confident in town reading. We really need to be lynching one of these two today. | ||
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