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VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
October 13 2012 05:16 GMT
#2801
On October 13 2012 14:05 Z-BosoN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
VE, riddle me this. When DP said stuff concerning the two night kills, you quickly called it a scumslip. Do you still think it's a scumslip? Tell me more about DP. In my head, it's him vs. you at the moment.

Or have you no comment on one of your top reads?


Done with you. Move along.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
October 13 2012 05:19 GMT
#2802
On October 13 2012 14:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 14:05 Z-BosoN wrote:
On October 13 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
VE, riddle me this. When DP said stuff concerning the two night kills, you quickly called it a scumslip. Do you still think it's a scumslip? Tell me more about DP. In my head, it's him vs. you at the moment.

Or have you no comment on one of your top reads?


Done with you. Move along.


Done with me? Yay, that means I'm not scum right? I mean, you are also done with pushing your second biggest read, right? Oh wait, right, that never happened! Phew!
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
October 13 2012 05:21 GMT
#2803
On October 13 2012 14:15 Coagulation wrote:
no i dont think ve is scum. but I have been wrong about him every time hes been scum in the past.

Has he ever R-R-R-Rage quit in the past and voted for himself?
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
October 13 2012 05:23 GMT
#2804
yes he has as both town and faking it as scum.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
October 13 2012 05:24 GMT
#2805
Someone should put together a best of sometime.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
October 13 2012 05:39 GMT
#2806
Problem is I play at work - I shouldn't do that.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
October 13 2012 05:42 GMT
#2807
I play during class
This game is anti-life
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
October 13 2012 05:45 GMT
#2808
I know I was just playing conspiracy theorist, but damnit I can't convince myself that I'm not right.

I really believe that scum would feel like they were in a rough spot after losing marv and Hapa/Node on days 2 and 3 due to a mechanic that they had absolutely zero control over. And, if they felt like they were behind, a gambit could be just the thing they needed to pull out the win.

Also, DocH is one of the only hosts who I could believe would intentionally make a game "Vets" vs "Non-Vets" (aka newbs).

There are just too many little coincidences here.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
October 13 2012 05:56 GMT
#2809
On October 13 2012 08:13 Kreb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 03:21 slOosh wrote:
On October 13 2012 01:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Now. What does everyone think of Kreb? The guy has been on my case for days...it occurs to me that scum wouldn't be so willing to "come at me bro" when so many people believe (on some level) my claim. Too risky. Anyone else wanna weigh in on this guy?

Initially thought Kreb was just someone who likes to setup spec, but there's mafia agenda in his play. Namely working things for a VE lynch. Regardless of what you may think of VE's alignment the way he goes about it is scummy.

Here gives his opinion of Z-BosoN when he starts getting pressured (primarily by VE), and starts by saying his defense is terrible but by the end decides that he doesn't look that bad. After the kush flip he agrees with Z-BosoN against VE:
On October 11 2012 19:09 Kreb wrote:
On October 11 2012 18:36 Z-BosoN wrote:
Wait, what???

On October 11 2012 13:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean...no. I don't think that would have been optimal. It's D1 and mislynches happen. To bus in that situation would have been retarded imo. That's why I wanted to lynch Node - because there was resistence to the wagon in the form of people sticking on Shady.

That's why I'm hung up on the Node switch - because Node COULD have been lynched - but people were all like "wtf dat wagon" when it's like...why dude? WHY?!?


I call bullshit right there.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260&currentpage=25#499
You typed in ##vote node one minute after marv gave the first vote, being the second one to vote node. You wanted to lynch him waaay before there was any sort of information on the wagon. That's definitely not why you wanted to lynch node.

Thats actually a very good point. Its really about time we lynch him.

He flips from "suspecting" ZB to agreeing with him in lynching VE, the guy whom ZB's defense was against.

On October 11 2012 21:25 Kreb wrote:
Theres strange things going on with these claims. There a seemingly massive amount of Blues in the game (does mafia have something else to balance the possible town advantage of plenty of blues then? if so, what?) while still being 4 unclaimed roles (hitman, coroner, detective, arsonist). Thats one 3rd party, but could be another blue among the rest.

Cant really put my finger on what it could be though. All claims seem somewhat valid, but that doesnt feel right either.

Along with a string of similar quotes, he pushes forth the idea that there are inordinate blues - but he does it in a way that casts doubt on the living blue claims VE and MMT. Notice how VE isn't suspicious because of his behavior now, but because of his claim (which seems "somewhat valid").

On October 11 2012 23:13 Kreb wrote:
Or wait a second again. If VEs role is a cop+rolecop, that means there must be a alignment+role Framer for Kush to have been Framed. Thats seems quite unlikely. Had Kush flipper Coroner it would have all made sense, but he flipped Vanilla Townie. It seems really unlikely theres a alignment+role Framer....

Stuff like this is indirect doubt on VE without actually saying it. 'if VE is rolecop+cop then there must be a alignment + role framer, but an alignment + role framer is really unlikely to exist, so ... (VE is a liar but I'm not gonna say it up front)' - kinda thing.

It's only much later he finally commits to a vote even though it's the thing he has been talking about the whole time, and when grilled by risk, his reasoning is based on the premise that VE is scum and justifying / doing setup spec around this, opposed to drawing conclusions from the events.


I'd be down with a Kreb lynch.

First bolded part: Im not sure why you say Im suspecting ZB. I never said that, dotn put words in my mouth please. And quite frankly, even if I said towards the end "ZB look really scummy because of this and I have strong suspicions of him", what makes it so that I cant agree on points he make anyway?

Second bolded part: LOL? Is your argument that Im trying to shift suspicions VEs way without committing myself? If anything, I've been pretty damn clear of my suspicions of VE whole game. If you want to hold that against me, fine (I've been questioning my own tunneling a fair bit tbh, so if you do the same thats natural). But you accuse me of doing the opposite? "indirect doubt on VE without actually saying it"? The fuck?

Oh, and you're pretty damn right Im trying to cast doubts on VE. Thats because I have pretty big doubts of him and I want him lynched. If that wasnt clear Im not sure how I could make it clear. And how exactly has are my conclusions not based on events?

Meanwhile, this is the second time you strangely try to start suspicions of people. First time on BC where you backed off very soon. This time your whole post seem to have been provoked by VE asking a broad question of what people think of me. Is that really the best you can do, cant you initiate any reads at all rather than jumping on other possibilities opening up?

Oh, and you still havent said a word about why you voted Matt. Im waiting.

First part: There is no point of calling someone's defense incredibly weak if you think they are town - it only serves to cast doubt on said player's alignment. If you truly suspect someone as scum you would put less trust in what they say because of scum agenda influencing their posts.

On October 10 2012 17:25 Kreb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2012 16:36 Z-BosoN wrote:
Fuck man, it's 4 am here... I'm trying to dismiss you so I can sleep
Let me try harder, then, since it seems like you actually care about what I have to say

I did not want Node to die to this wagon. I thought it was unjustified. I decided this after I put my vote on Node and ever since I've been playing a lot differently. I also did not want to kill shady. Therefore, I changed to someone else.

What I said later was:
If I were scum (ok assume I'm scum) and I my unvoting was actually an attempt to save Node, why the HELL would I have done that 40-50 min prior to the lynch? I feel that this wouldn't accomplish shit, and would probably throw my ass on the line (as is what's happening). I'm arguing that it would be completely ridiculous for me, as scum, to want to save Node in such a manner. Why? Because I'd be sticking my neck out and for what? No guarantees?
I'd most likely wait until actual lynch time to see if my switching of votes would make a difference.


I'm add something new here.

YOU are probably thinking that I unvoted because I realized that Node was actually maybe gonna get lynched for real. My post in the thread came 9 minutes after the 7/7 post on the vote thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260&currentpage=29#573

So for this theory to be true, I've had to instantly refresh the voting thread, quickly as hell change my mind, write a post and 9 minutes later, BAM, post that I had changed my mind.

That supports the fact that I got unlucky right? Because 9 minutes to make the post I made and to make a decision of this caliber, AND assuming I read the vote tally right after it came off is a bit too much, no?

Hopefully that makes my claim more believable

That is actually an incredibly weak defense when I read through it again though lol (might have ro re-evaluate my 10min old claim of VE/Boson exhange being less scummy.....).


Second part: I don't know which one but it's from Ace's mafia strategy guide. Scum plant ideas into town so they present it as their own, making it difficult to trace back the origin. Doesn't matter if you claim your stance on him was clear from the start. If you really thought him scum through and through you don't concede that the claims seem valid. Scum can't make valid claims.

On October 11 2012 21:25 Kreb wrote:
Theres strange things going on with these claims. There a seemingly massive amount of Blues in the game (does mafia have something else to balance the possible town advantage of plenty of blues then? if so, what?) while still being 4 unclaimed roles (hitman, coroner, detective, arsonist). Thats one 3rd party, but could be another blue among the rest.

Cant really put my finger on what it could be though. All claims seem somewhat valid, but that doesnt feel right either.


I backed off BC when I cooled off and realized that we should be hunting scum specifically. How was that strangely started suspicions? It was based off a blue claim.

As for voting Matt, he hadn't done anything at time of vote (and still hasn't delivered what he promised on iamperf or whoever). Pressure vote / policy vote / lurker scum vote, call it what you want. People respond to votes.

##vote Kreb




As for peeps who still can't see BC as 3rd party should read more carefully.
On October 13 2012 09:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 09:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
On October 13 2012 09:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On October 12 2012 15:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm never checking BC you hear me? NEVER.



Just so you guys know, this is where VE gave his scumtell.

Why would a DT who gets back role / alignment not check the only player in the game suspected thus far of being third party who could out me if I am lying? Why would he only check someone we had the alignment of? The single only way for him to prove his sanity and thus the existence of a mafia framer was to check the one player in the game everyone believes is not town or mafia? Why? Because of all the people VE named last night as his check options I was most likely to be framed. Of all of them pushing me to be lynched right after to confirm framer existence would remove a player most of you believe to be anti town.

Instead he "checks" a player who has already claimed a role in thread thus to prove that a framer must exist. A town player would choose someone believed to be anti town as if that belief was correct a check would reveal a role that has not flipped.


Also, contrary to popular belief I was not shot, roleblocked, or any other form of night targeted that would kill me or inform me I was targeted.



It was because I was high and when I decided you're probably third, I saw "Paranoid Arsonist" and assumed that you can only fuck with people who target you. So no, I'm not checking you bro.

Don't tell me who I would check. I told town that I didn't check someone I thought was scum already. I don't care if you don't like that.
In any exchange I would always be offed first given the massive suspicion on me and it would confirm your theory while removing what everyone believes an anti town influence from the game. Yet instead you opted to check SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY CLAIMED. Who no one has doubted the claim of. Unlike any other player in the game, it has been proven I cannot be scum, thus if you are mafia and believe I am third party you would have to guess at my role. If you are town you would receive my role.

On October 13 2012 09:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
There are 13 players alive by my count.

Removing 4 of those from a pool of suspects? you have 9 players that could combine the remaining scum. Not just that based on the amount of shots on average per night, it looks like top kp is 2 atm by scum. IE of 3 remaining players from the situation I outlined, at least 1 would still be alive or two depending on the situation. It also allows everyone to begin analyzing on the only people in the game that matter as they would be the only remaining players that could be scum. Any player who gives a shit as town would at least attempt to prove them self not scum in some manner, while scum would be eventually fucked quite quickly.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
October 13 2012 06:03 GMT
#2810
if ve was scum he would of faked a check on someone more experienced and a bigger threat than kush. lets face it scum would never trade ve for kush. it would have been a fake check on someone who was pro town and a hard lynch plus deadly scum hunter not kush. kush was regarded as scummy by the entire thread. he would be an easy mislynch. theres no incentive to fake the check on him at all.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
October 13 2012 06:46 GMT
#2811
On October 13 2012 15:03 Coagulation wrote:
if ve was scum he would of faked a check on someone more experienced and a bigger threat than kush. lets face it scum would never trade ve for kush. it would have been a fake check on someone who was pro town and a hard lynch plus deadly scum hunter not kush. kush was regarded as scummy by the entire thread. he would be an easy mislynch. theres no incentive to fake the check on him at all.

If you want to humor me even a little bit, then I'll play Devil's Advocate:

First off, looking at this game after night 3, who that is (was) still alive would have been a threat to them?

Secondly, kush was the perfect person to use the "fake check" against. For one, it makes sense for a cop to have checked him. Also, after VE flipped town PI, no one would have questioned that there was a framer and we just got fucked by night actions.

Finally, remember that, assuming my version of events is correct (yea, I know, huge assumption), that it wouldn't have worked at ALL had the townie not been lynched. If, say, VE came in claiming a red check on, say risk or slOosh or Mementoss, people would have been more likely to question VE. The fact that 99% of the thread thought kush was scummy to begin already meant people were more willing to hop on, and only question VE after the fact. He would have been 100% the person to use it on.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
October 13 2012 06:52 GMT
#2812
So Kei, while I agree that's certainly plausible, how do we go about it?
If we lynch VE, we won't know anything for certain, as he will pop up PI.
If we lynch mementoss, and he's scum, GG. If he's town, we just lost a Medical Examiner.
Since it might be either BC/Coag, it's riskier lynching these two.
So if you are really balls out on that theory, mementoss is the best lynch slot, no?
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
October 13 2012 06:54 GMT
#2813
On October 13 2012 15:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
So Kei, while I agree that's certainly plausible, how do we go about it?
If we lynch VE, we won't know anything for certain, as he will pop up PI.
If we lynch mementoss, and he's scum, GG. If he's town, we just lost a Medical Examiner.
Since it might be either BC/Coag, it's riskier lynching these two.
So if you are really balls out on that theory, mementoss is the best lynch slot, no?


RUT ROH RAGGY
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
October 13 2012 06:57 GMT
#2814
Z-Bo:

Yes, that is the problem. If they saved KP to change the flip today, it probably doesn't matter who we lynch.

Which is unfortunate, because it means there's no way to confirm my theory without 2 flips in a row.

And even I'm not sure enough of myself to guarantee 2 flips in a row.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
October 13 2012 06:58 GMT
#2815
Isn't that what Kei's assumption is based on?
I thought you were done with me! Go sleep, scum!
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
October 13 2012 06:58 GMT
#2816
Coroner dead. If we're assuming scum had the ability to change flips around, then we're assuming they did so for Kush and that they did so with Kush because no night-kills.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
October 13 2012 06:59 GMT
#2817
I think it may be more logical to save conspiratory-based lynches for a later time.
I propose this: we lynch some1 else today, and tomorrow, VE.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
October 13 2012 07:00 GMT
#2818
EBWOP: What I mean by "It probably doesn't matter who we lynch" is that they probably would just control the color of whoever flipped. If VE was scum, he would flip Private Investigator, and if Mementoss was scum and we lynched him he would flip Medical Examiner.

Basically, even if I am right, I don't suspect there's anything town can/will do about it.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
October 13 2012 07:00 GMT
#2819
The only reason I'm entertaining that notion Kei is because Kush was Mafia Coroner in my report and because A) he flipped something other than my report and B) because there were no night-kills or actions that we know of.

Obviously if someone had come in here and claimed like...hit or RB or something that falls apart...but no one did and that's my assumption.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
October 13 2012 07:00 GMT
#2820
On October 13 2012 15:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Coroner dead. If we're assuming scum had the ability to change flips around, then we're assuming they did so for Kush and that they did so with Kush because no night-kills.

Why? How do we know it's not a next-day deal?
Someone else please answer this. He's done with me, unfortunately.
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