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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 06 2012 01:47 Mattchew wrote: god you are all so scummy... except BC of course. On September 06 2012 01:47 Mattchew wrote: and BM.. I repeat, BM is def town! just screw everything I said. There's no way this dude is going to flip green lol | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
On September 06 2012 01:18 Toadesstern wrote: well 24 out of 25 people agree that Matt needs to die. If that 1 guy telling us Matt is not mafia is right that looks awfully like someone having information he shouldn't have or how in the world is the guy supposed to come to the conclusion that Matt's got to be "not mafia" if everyone else agrees he is.
I already told you my thought process, wtf is this post. He claimed, I looked at why would a scum claim and found no good reason, then looked at why a blue or assa would claim and found no good reason. So everyone condemned him as scum for some reason, I was amazed how can everyone let vote ppl without proper content and provide a possible easy wagon so I tried to get as much out of everyone why would they do that (lot of "he lied so hes scum"-> there is no content to discuss). If anything if he flips red every newb or scum will wagon on me, if he flips black/blue then we have at least a couple of ppl with content talking about him, I explained why I think he's more likely to be blue or black in my calculations but I never said that he is 100% not scum. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I'd like to discuss a couple of things you've mentioned about Ottox: On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched. What can we conclude if he flips scum or town? In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch? My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum. If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched. Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game. @Shiaopi Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Town can be obnoxious and annoying, too. The same can be said about overall usefulness. You can't expect everyone to be useful as town... I can understand if you find his history of defending Mattchew to be scummy, and that seems to be your main point here. However, it also seems to be the only point that holds water. We shouldn't be lynching people who are obnoxious or useless if they're town... Also: On September 06 2012 01:32 Z-BosoN wrote: I disagree, this is mostly WIFOM. If matt flips mafia, he will look suspicious because of scum motivation. If he flips townie, then he can equally be a townie who actually thought that matt's claim made sense, a townie who thought that matt was trolling and thought you were a better target, a townie who just wants to feel special by disagreeing with everybody else, a scum trying to gain town cred, and whatever else I can't come up with. I don't agree with your "he needs to die 100%". On my point of view, if matt flips scum, he becomes more suspicious, because there is scum motivation in trying to defend a buddy. If matt flips town, Ox will still be as suspicious as he is right now. I would like to focus on the point of Mattchew flipping scum, which is much much more likely (especially considering his recent postings): I agree that there is scum motivation behind Ottox's actions. But I would be interested in hearing from you if there is also a town motivation for such actions. We lynch people because they're scum, and not because they're bad town. This is still my read on him, but I would like to hear from you if there's anything specifically that has convinced you it's more likely he is going to flip scum than town. I still feel that defending Mattchew as Ottox has would be suicidal from a scum viewpoint, and that as scum Ottox would never feel so inclined to make such a defense. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 06 2012 03:34 Ottoxlol wrote: I already told you my thought process, wtf is this post. He claimed, I looked at why would a scum claim and found no good reason, then looked at why a blue or assa would claim and found no good reason. So everyone condemned him as scum for some reason, I was amazed how can everyone let vote ppl without proper content and provide a possible easy wagon so I tried to get as much out of everyone why would they do that (lot of "he lied so hes scum"-> there is no content to discuss). If anything if he flips red every newb or scum will wagon on me, if he flips black/blue then we have at least a couple of ppl with content talking about him, I explained why I think he's more likely to be blue or black in my calculations but I never said that he is 100% not scum. As quite a few people have said Matt isn't scum just because he lied. The fact that he disappeared for ages after Palmar's post without defending himself is much more damning than the actual fake claim. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote: Finished with page 12. I dislike you voting a veteran based on meta. You don´t kill veterans, you wait for them to either 1) crush the scumteam or 2) get shot in the night. If they live too long without doing any good, THEN you maybe consider killing them based on meta. Too long, didn´t read. I´m not usually basing my reads upon meta that the player himself provided. What do you mean with the bolded part? It doesn´t make sense to me. What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? We should be killing people we think are scum, no matter the reason. It might be harder to catch a good player with meta arguments, but "veteran" doesn't neccessarily mean "good player" and there are people who have metas that are worth analyzing. I especially don't like this post because it comes from someone who, while not a "vet" in the same sense that BC/BM/BM are, is still definitely in the top third or quarter of players in this game in terms of experience. Seems a little self-serving. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Who is your top scumread right now, and why? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie. If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself. Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. | ||
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me. Those who voted Matt with a one liner. | ||
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie. If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself. Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote: At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely Thing is: I never dodged your question and answered it 5 times. Thing is: Everyone in the thread agrees that I answered the question just fine Thing is: You say "Toad said X" (I did not answer the question) while 24 people in the thread are telling you "dude, just look at it, toad said Y" (he did) Thing is: You say "Toad is mafia because he said X. That is all I've got on him and totally makes him 100% mafia" You've got to realize that that looks weird, right? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On September 06 2012 03:34 Ottoxlol wrote: I already told you my thought process, wtf is this post. He claimed, I looked at why would a scum claim and found no good reason ---SNIP Stopped reading. Let's try again. You're telling me you couldn't find a benefit for scum to fake claim nosy neighbor? | ||
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
On September 06 2012 04:05 Toadesstern wrote: Ah screw that guy... I'm just not going to answer him anymore. It's pointless... Yes, and I already asked you to do that, you speak italian while I speak english so. On September 06 2012 04:06 Hopeless1der wrote: Stopped reading. Let's try again. You're telling me you couldn't find a benefit for scum to fake claim nosy neighbor? There is no good reason. It was dumb, I thought we already agreed on that. There can be if it were a self-aware miller game but if it would be there could be reason to claim it as blue or assa too. | ||
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imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 06 2012 04:12 Ottoxlol wrote: There is no good reason. It was dumb, I thought we already agreed on that. There can be if it were a self-aware miller game but if it would be there could be reason to claim it as blue or assa too. OK 1) Yes it was dumb but that has no effect on his alignment. Scum can be just as dumb as town. 2) Matt obviously didn't know that millers were not self aware or he wouldn't have role claimed self aware miller. Whether the role actually exists or not is not relevant to this specific part of the argument. 3) As has been said countless fucking times already there is no reason for him to fake claim self aware miller as blue or assassin. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote: At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. | ||
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote: You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing. You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
BroodKingEXE brought up that Ottox isn't pursuing his scumreads. He seems remarkably unconcerned with Toadsstern (whom he has a vote on) over the last few pages. He comments how Toad isn't answering his questions and pretty much leaves it at that - never once appealing to other players to take a look at Toad. In addition, he has an FOS against me from a couple of pages back: On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote: He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him Not once has he actively tried to push his FOS, despite me and Ottox being active in the thread at similar times. He had plenty of opportunity to push it but completely forgot about his suspicions. At this point, what is the purpose of Ottoxlol going in and arguing about the Mattchew lynch? It certainly isn't going to stop Matt from getting lynched, and that much should be obvious to just about anyone in the thread. Ottox never once suggests that we shouldn't vote for Mattchew - he only attacks the argument against him, attacking the vocal/active supporters of the Mattchew lynch. But look at his recent quote: You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it. Huh? This is completely inconsistent with his "strategy" - he's not trying to get lurkers to talk about Mattchew - he's doing the exact opposite by interacting with non-lurker players! Ottoxlol is not scum-hunting - he's just picking fights for the sake of picking fights. | ||
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
Do you think there is anyone who could be swayed from voting Matt? No. Hence no cases. Not from me, not from anyone. I suggested to talk about Matt and why is it ok to reduce the whole discussion to OMG OTTOXLOL WANT TO KNOW WHY WE VOTED SO HES SCUM I did not forgot about it. Is it enough to push a case? No. Wtf is wrong with you. Its not the exact opposite, are you from the states for real? It is as it is. I asked not only the active ppl. I asked everyone. I had a discussion with actives because they answered? Are you really this bad or am I missing something. | ||
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