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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:06 thrawn2112 wrote: Shady thinks that the 2nd option is more likely I don't have a reason to believe one or the other. should say "Shady thinks that the 2nd option is more likely but I don't have a reason to believe one or the other | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:05 Dandel Ion wrote: That actually is a decent point. But I'm not so sure that him being "alone" is necessarily a town tell either, the way his case was going for the most part whould most likely discourage scum-partners to defend him too much - it's even more probable that he is subtly bussing him, rather than defending. But this is all pretty WIFOM. As it stands, your point, while a good one, looks like a straight-up null-tell to me. But I understand if you see it as a town-tell.. I also think that kush was playing "bad town" rather than scum for the most part. But I will reserve judgement on him, no matter which way, until he explains why he was claiming JK there. I really don't get it, and as I said, it's not very believable imo. First off, reserving judgment on Kush is bad. Lengthening the amount of time we talk about Kush is going to shorten the amount of time we have to talk about more substantial cases like Lvdr. Furthermore, I don't get why on one hand you understand how mkfuba can see the claim as a town-tell but on the other hand act completely confused about kush. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:06 thrawn2112 wrote: For now I'm going to ignore the jailkeeper claim, because it fits the idea of you being town and pissed that everyone is jumping all over you and you don't know what to do and are claiming JK from desperation. It also fits your agenda if you are mafia and trying to scare people into not voting for you. Shady thinks that the 2nd option is more likely I don't have a reason to believe one or the other. You're gonna have to show that you're town by giving some reads with well explained thought processes. So on that point, who do you think is scum and why? Shady, you put an FOS on lvdr so that topic's gonna be my next post. Also WeeTee, I asked you for your read on lvdr because I think it's relevant to your post about Alsn. This is the 4th time I've asked you for that read and you've posted in the thread 4 times since I originally asked for it. Can you please provide it? How can you ignore the JK claim? Either way, it's a play of some sort, and the most significant thing to happen in the thread so far. Also, I don't get why you still want to offer Kush an out in terms of having him build cases. We asked him to build cases pages and pages ago, and he didn't. Why would he start now when his towncred is even lower? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:21 Shady Sands wrote:First off, reserving judgment on Kush is bad. Lengthening the amount of time we talk about Kush is going to shorten the amount of time we have to talk about more substantial cases like Lvdr. You would rather the town ignore kush and instead talk about lvdr yet you voted for kush and put a FOS on lvdr? Could you clarify what you meant by "more substantial?" And yeah I'm still looking at your case against lvdr, going through his filter now. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:21 Shady Sands wrote: First off, reserving judgment on Kush is bad. Lengthening the amount of time we talk about Kush is going to shorten the amount of time we have to talk about more substantial cases like Lvdr. Furthermore, I don't get why on one hand you understand how mkfuba can see the claim as a town-tell but on the other hand act completely confused about kush. No, that's something different. I'm confused about why kush would claim JK NOW. see this post of mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361579¤tpage=10#192 I said I understand why mkfuba thinks kush being "alone" is a town tell to him. I disagree, as I said, but it can be a valid point, and I'll keep it in mind. Note that what I talked about: On August 25 2012 01:43 mkfuba07 wrote: I'll be honest here and say that I'm actually inclined to believe kush. His play has been consistently bad, while I feel a newbie scum would have been far more variant. He would also have another person to discuss his play with, instead of having to hear from us how poorly he's been playing. He seems more 'alone' than a scum would be, if that makes sense. Does not have anything to do with his JK claim. It's about his overall play, and that's what I addressed. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 24 2012 12:30 Lvdr wrote: @mkfuba Your posting so far has been policy and fluff-city (fluffcity bitch fluff fluff city bitch) This post in particular has caught my attention. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361579¤tpage=8#141 You pitter patter around, but say nothing. Get out there and scumhunt!! without commenting on my response in any way. Was my response not enough? Was it the straw that broke the camel's back? He says he wants to hear more from me and then ignores what I've said. Here's a copy of my response in case anyone wants to read it:+ Show Spoiler + On August 24 2012 12:50 mkfuba07 wrote: Yes, my first post was policy. That's pretty much how every game starts off. Then my second post was responding to a direct question from Shady, as well as explaining why I was apparently lurking. The only thing I consider fluff is the last bit, and for that I'll apologize. When the game's just started I tend to be more liberal with what I will comment on, and the fact that Shady called me out right when I was about to post a response was entertaining. I'm also always suspicious of people who point out how pro-town they're being, which he's done outright once, and subtley twice. He emphasizes how he's promoting discussion, which is a pro-town action, but all of the discussion is about town reads that will reveal far less in the future than scum reads will. Essentially, all he's said so far is "I lynch lurkers. Shady seems town. Discuss how Shady seems town. I'm pro-town. Kush is suspicious because he said 85%. Fuba scumhunt!" He's actually said very little about anything at all, aside from a town read on Shady that a townie wouldn't be very confident of. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:24 Shady Sands wrote: Also, I don't get why you still want to offer Kush an out in terms of having him build cases. We asked him to build cases pages and pages ago, and he didn't. Why would he start now when his towncred is even lower? EBWOP @ this part: Yes, i think it's better to wait for his explanation/reads. I think we have enough time in day 1 to hear what he has to say. I don't plan on just ignoring that. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:24 Shady Sands wrote: How can you ignore the JK claim? Either way, it's a play of some sort, and the most significant thing to happen in the thread so far. Yeah it is the most interesting thing said so far but I it matches both positions taken against him in this thread. You yourself pointed out the town/scum reasons for him to claim JK but I disagree that the JK claim is more likely to be either a town/scum motivation. Of course a scum player might fake roleclaim but some people including myself can see it as him just playing poorly. I'm ignoring it for now because it doesn't tip me off in any direction more than the other. On August 25 2012 02:24 Shady Sands wrote:Also, I don't get why you still want to offer Kush an out in terms of having him build cases. We asked him to build cases pages and pages ago, and he didn't. Why would he start now when his towncred is even lower? Are you really saying that we shouldn't allow him the opportunity to make cases? The best thing an accused player could do is to show that they are scumhunting. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:26 thrawn2112 wrote: You would rather the town ignore kush and instead talk about lvdr yet you voted for kush and put a FOS on lvdr? Could you clarify what you meant by "more substantial?" And yeah I'm still looking at your case against lvdr, going through his filter now. I'll reiterate: I don't believe the JK claim. That's why I voted Kush. If you don't believe the claim, then you should pretty much auto-vote him. But that doesn't mean I think there's more to talk about with Kush than there is with Lvdr. Does that make sense? | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:37 thrawn2112 wrote: Yeah it is the most interesting thing said so far but I it matches both positions taken against him in this thread. You yourself pointed out the town/scum reasons for him to claim JK but I disagree that the JK claim is more likely to be either a town/scum motivation. Of course a scum player might fake roleclaim but some people including myself can see it as him just playing poorly. I'm ignoring it for now because it doesn't tip me off in any direction more than the other. Are you really saying that we shouldn't allow him the opportunity to make cases? The best thing an accused player could do is to show that they are scumhunting. Sorry, I was just a little peeved that we offered Kush two chances to shape up his posting and he hasn't taken either of them. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
The one thing that I would like him to respond to for sure is why he roleclaimed. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 02:53 mkfuba07 wrote: EBWOP: Add to the end "Until I see that, I'm not commenting on kush anymore." Duly noted. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
His first 4 posts are about lurker policy. Nothing to see there, policy talk is pretty much standard. On August 24 2012 09:20 Lvdr wrote: Right now my eyes are on Kush and WeeTee. Yes it is their first games, but thats no excuse to just sheep onto others ideas. Get out there! Don't use your newbiness as an excuse! People have said this post is suspicious, but it happened right after this post: On August 24 2012 09:14 Shady Sands wrote: Ok Lvdr, you were the last one in, and I know you're an experienced player, so I'm going to ask you for a scum read now. Who do you read as scummy based on their posts so far, and why? Shady asked lvdr to give scumreads, right there on the spot. What lvdr said about kush and weetee was completely valid. Based on what had been said in the thread so far it was perfectly reasonable to suspect kush/weetee of not contributing, because they weren't. I think it was kush who actually referenced this post of looking suspicious but on its own and in context of shady's question it seems completely reasonable. Now on to shady's points, which I think are actually quite good: On August 24 2012 23:33 Shady Sands wrote: He goes into the thread, asks questions to generate discussion, accuses someone of fluff, and then leaves after FoSing the fluffy poster (mkfuba) and the obvious lynch (kush). This behavior is inconsistent: why push so hard for scumhunting and activity, but then disappear (and leave himself plenty of outs) once the shooting starts? Answer: because, if he is scum, this is exactly what he wants to do: stir up discussion, and then be the second or third person to hop on a mislynch wagon. On top of that, I know what he's capable of in terms of scumhunting and making votes based on reasoned cases. So far, he hasn't lived up to that. Because of both reasons, FoS Lvdr During the time that lvdr was posting, I did not suspect him of being scum. I actually got a town vibe from him because he was one of the few people asking for reads and opinions. But the thing that sticks out to me as scummy behavior is what shady pointed out... his sudden disappearance after FOS'ing kush for the 85% post. I agreed with the FOS but I dont think a FOS is justifiable because of one specific post. He made the FOS and after that many other people joined in on the kush bandwagon, but lvdr himself didn't add anything else to the discussion. I find it hard to believe that a town lvdr would make his first FOS, and then afk from the thread and so I'm going to say that lvdr and weetee are my current top scumreads. (weetee for making shitty posts and repeatedly ignoring my questions) What I would like to see from lvdr: - his current scumread and a case to go along with it - what he thinks about his FOS suspects (weetee and kush) | ||
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Lvdr
United States418 Posts
That being said, I have some reads to provide: @Kush I think the JK claim sounds very honest to me and it fits perfectly with the bad-townie' vibe. So everyone wants to lynch me because I didn't share my thoughts about if lurkers are really bad or just kind of bad? I don't like the leadership role you took in the beginning and I think it reeks of mafia. Wow guys everyone wants to kill me because I'm annoying or something and everyone hates me?? Reading this thread makes me want to cry. Honestly I will try harder but if you kill me let me just say that would be a huge mistake beacuse I am no ordinary townsperson. I am the jailkeeper so yeah you really shouldn't kill me. These are only a few selections from kush's filter. Overall it reads as someone who hasn't played this style of mafia before. The suspicion of leadership is understandable, but poor play. The JK claim falls in to the same category: understandable based on the clear desperation in kush's posting, but fundamentally the bad play of a newbie that is struggling. Therefore: 1. I don't think Kush should be a D1 lynch target. 2. Kush is not a confirmed townie and should still be 'watched'. @shady My initial 'town call' on shady was mostly in order to stimulate discussion. Yes, he did match his meta for the most part, but it was extremely early to decide that someone was already town. At this point I am pretty suspicious that he decided kush's JK claim is scummy enough to insta-vote him. Seems like textbook play from a mafia jumping on the mistakes of a newbie. ##FOS Shady | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 25 2012 04:21 Lvdr wrote: Everyone has to sleep you know. I can't patrol the thread 24/7. That being said, I have some reads to provide: @Kush I think the JK claim sounds very honest to me and it fits perfectly with the bad-townie' vibe. These are only a few selections from kush's filter. Overall it reads as someone who hasn't played this style of mafia before. The suspicion of leadership is understandable, but poor play. The JK claim falls in to the same category: understandable based on the clear desperation in kush's posting, but fundamentally the bad play of a newbie that is struggling. Therefore: 1. I don't think Kush should be a D1 lynch target. 2. Kush is not a confirmed townie and should still be 'watched'. @shady My initial 'town call' on shady was mostly in order to stimulate discussion. Yes, he did match his meta for the most part, but it was extremely early to decide that someone was already town. At this point I am pretty suspicious that he decided kush's JK claim is scummy enough to insta-vote him. Seems like textbook play from a mafia jumping on the mistakes of a newbie. ##FOS Shady What happened to your other FoS suspects? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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Lvdr
United States418 Posts
please read. | ||
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Lvdr
United States418 Posts
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