|
@SolarSail:
I understand you need some sleep but you really need to consider the position you're in right now.
You are among the top scum suspects for several of us here, so you should be doing everything in your power now to demonstrate how you are innocent.
You have no problem rushing to defend yourself, but you still hesitate to provide any explanation for your scum reads. If you need a reminder, this post:
On August 23 2012 02:04 Solarsail wrote:
I've made my position clear already. Goodkarma is it and I'm voting for whoever he's voting for within reason because there's no way I could be a leader at this point and anything less than getting the whole town on side to vote for one person will mean last minute vote changes by mafia to kill someone for the win.
Current read fwiw is
Town: Goodkarma, Darthpunk, Z-boson
No idea: Stutters
Anti-town play: Golbat, Obvious, YourHarry
Explain this ASAP. The longer you stall, the scummier you're looking.
##FOS: SolarSail
|
And to everyone:
This is not Night of the Mutes. Everyone needs to step forward and present their reads well before the night is over. We still can win, but only if everyone participates.
@Scum:
Feel free not to participate, as that will make you easier to spot  .
|
I am kind of busy at the moment but I will be posting at length as soon as I have the time. That being said this flip gives us a lot of info.
|
Starting from YourHarry's side:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15862745
And this is the reason why I suspect GK to be the scum, because unless GK and Solar are mason together, he somehow knew the town alignment of Solar. The same same argument that you are making now, on why I am scum for knowing GK/Solar's alignment can be made about GK, for knowing Solar's alignment. Except, hopefully my explanation makes sense that my reasoning for knowing is based on thinking that GK/Solar was mason.
This among other things, it's like the entire first 1/5 of Harry's filter is discussing the Solar/GK mason theory. We now know that Harry knew Solar and GK's alignments. His "knowing" they were mason buddies was based on a single word that was making something of nothing ("sigh"). Okay, so YH stops talking about Solar, or rather nothing was found (with Ctrl+F for "solar") in his filter after about 1/5 down the page referring to Solar until his last vote, just hours ago, against Solar. The guy "town Harry" had pegged for town at the beginning of the game.
To indulge myself a little bit of WIFOM, why would YourHarry do this? Why not go down silently? Did the plan suddenly go from "I'm going down silently" to "Shit! Who's going to lead town to the last mislynch?" These are things that don't keep me awake at night because I sleep like an angry bear.
Summary from the YH side: YH spends a goodly amount of time defending Solar as town when tunneling on GK, and then votes Solar at the end. We can't trust YH because we don't know his motives, and we're having a hard time trusting Solar because of his highly-dependent play.
Solar side:
Chided YH for YH's vote against thrawn not having much evidence... but what is this? A mini-revelation in my head?
Up to this point, no significant mentions of YH until we get:
On August 20 2012 08:09 Solarsail wrote:What a surprise. Scum YH has a good motivation for this: be accused as one of the three, bus Thrawn to save yourself when the case against you looks strong, and backtrack on that close to deadline when he's about to be lynched and people are talking about switching. On August 20 2012 08:53 Solarsail wrote:
Vote reverting to Thrawn per my earlier post since an Obvious lynch is not really possible in 7 minutes.
##Vote: Thrawn2112 On August 23 2012 08:27 Solarsail wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 08:10 goodkarma wrote:
TL;DR:
One last time: we don't have the time to vote switch. You do if you all verbally agree that you'd do it at 10 minutes to, and anyone that didn't would be immediately voted at 5 minutes to. IRC mafia decisions can be done in much less time with everyone there. IRC mafia, huh? You've been keeping naughty secrets.
Maybe the most important/telling interaction between them for the entire game:
On August 20 2012 08:19 Solarsail wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:17 YourHarry wrote:On August 20 2012 08:09 Solarsail wrote:
I am having second thoughts about Thrawn.
What a surprise. Scum YH has a good motivation for this: be accused as one of the three, bus Thrawn to save yourself when the case against you looks strong, and backtrack on that close to deadline when he's about to be lynched and people are talking about switching. That is not the reason for my switch, but I understand your suspicion. I can't move my vote for now because if I do, I will be lynched. You can move your vote with an even stronger case on someone else. I encourage you to do so because your initial vote against Thrawn wasn't with much evidence.
Solar is, out loud, explicitly, in the thread, OKAY with YourHarry letting himself get lynched by unvoting. A better player than myself could please take a look at this since my WIFOM tank is empty?
|
Okay. It would seem that no one is very excited to participate in night discussion, so let me start things up. I expect the following people to respond to me:
@Obvious: Explain to me why it is on day 3 you completely ignore my case on YourHarry, and jump from Golbat to Solarsail. And only when called out for it, you become the last to vote for YourHarry on day 3. And I would also like to know how SolarSail, who wasn't on your scum suspect list at all, becomes your top scum read, but only after DarthPunk tells you he's making a case on him.
@Z-Boson: Explain to me why it is you felt it was so important to have a last-minute vote change at the end of day 3. It should be obvious that this looks like a desperate scum-motivated move, and yet you have failed to contribute anything at all after the day post. Lurking is the worst thing you could do for yourself right now.
@Stutters: You are looking through filters right now... I fully expect you to write up a case on your top suspects soon.
@SolarSail:
On August 23 2012 09:24 Solarsail wrote:
After you've finished going through the filters let me know if I've got to defend myself against anything, because tomorrow's gonna come down to me vs Obvious and I'd much rather be going through filters trying to find a third option, especially if Golbat somehow flips town and throws everything off.
My play today was weak sheeping because I believed we had pretty much lost. I wasn't trying to put together a case of my own because it came down to whether goodkarma was right or not. Today I will be more active and more independent.
Did I miss something? How did we narrow the scum suspects down to either Obvious or you? You need to explain this, after of course sharing your scum reads.
We all know how important tonight is for town, so be warned: if you don't participate expect to be rewarded with an FOS and a likely vote. If you didn't know, failing to show your views right now is anti-town and serves only a scum agenda.
In other words: There's no acceptable town-motivated bullshit excuse you can make up to get out of participating tonight without getting noticed.
|
On August 23 2012 12:53 goodkarma wrote:
@Obvious: Explain to me why it is on day 3 you completely ignore my case on YourHarry, and jump from Golbat to Solarsail. And only when called out for it, you become the last to vote for YourHarry on day 3. And I would also like to know how SolarSail, who wasn't on your scum suspect list at all, becomes your top scum read, but only after DarthPunk tells you he's making a case on him.
(-snip-)
We all know how important tonight is for town, so be warned: if you don't participate expect to be rewarded with an FOS and a likely vote. If you didn't know, failing to show your views right now is anti-town and serves only a scum agenda.
In other words: There's no acceptable town-motivated bullshit excuse you can make up to get out of participating tonight without getting noticed.
Well, originally I had a problem with you because you wanted me to do the work of figuring out what the hell Ochrow was doing. I can't answer for Ochrow, and since I know that Ochrow was town, it would have been a waste of time to go back through his filter and think about his interactions with people looking for his "town motive" when it can all be explained by bad town play. Your continuing to push me for it was further encouraging me to waste my analysis time looking AT MYSELF (Ochrow's filter) instead of at other players. So stemmed my distrust of you to start.
Regarding the case against Solar, Darth asked me a direct question so I complied. Why is that a problem? I originally looked quickly through all the filters to come up with my short list, and his request gave me a reason to take a second, deeper look at Solar. I found reasons for me to believe he was scummy before Darth posted his own. If I hadn't found anything worth mentioning, I would have said so.
As for the vote switch, I have already said that I had a very difficult time reading YH, perhaps because I was giving him the BOTD regarding his playstyle. When it was clear in the thread that we were consolidating votes, I had no problem moving my vote over. My candidate, Solar, wasn't gaining traction and in the event that we were right about YH, he would still have to present his defense and scum reads today.
|
@Obvious:
Just one more question:
Would you mind sharing your top two scum reads?
|
On August 22 2012 22:47 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 22:41 goodkarma wrote:
@DarthPunk:
So you think scum is busing one of their own? Yes I think they are forced too at this point. I think that one of them is Bussing. Solarsail is scum and voting golbat. so I view him as town. I think obvious is town also as he was so quick to drop the Golbat lynch after looking into solar's filter. I think a scum obvious would have tried slightly harder to go for the easy mislynch. That leaves either Stutters or Z-boson as scum bussing YH.
This scenario seems even more Likely after both Z-boson and Solar tried those vote switching shenanigans at the last minute trying to shift away from the your harry lynch.
@Obvious and Goodkarma.
My top scum reads at this point are: Z-Boson and Solarsail
|
The one thing that seems really suspicious to me at the moment is that on top of Solar not providing anything in the way of scum hunting, the your harry lynch was fairly easy to obtain. I am inclined to believe that if their was a mislynch on the cards during the last day cycle that scum would have aggressively pursued that, and we would have faced greater difficulty in securing YH's lynch.
It is also strange that your harry only voted for Solarsail at the very last minute when it was not going to effect the outcome and it was half hearted at best. This is in contrast to his previous behaviour when on both day one and two he aggressively pursued a mislynch on another leading candidate. I feel like Solar is scum so the counter wagon on him was not really an option. Otherwise wouldn't scum have expended more effort in securing his lynch?
I think scum tried to form a wagon on GK. Z- Boson placed a FoS on him and YH voted for him.
Also solar and Z- boson both happen to be the people pushing for a vote swap last minute which when combined with the other suspicions against them fits together nicely.
Just my current thoughts.
|
@gk and dp
I noticed it looked suspicious, me trying to change vote at the last minute, but I did so because I did quite a bit of thinking and thought I had enough reason as to why Solar Sail would be a better candidate then YourHarry. The timing really looks suspicious, because I was busy doing other things and my focus was not on Solar when it should have been. As soon as I decided that Solar was a better candidate, I tried doing a switch, when we still had around an hour to go.
I have school in a couple of minutes, but when I get back, I'll explain in detail as to why I think Solar was a better candidate than YourHarry and still is a strong one.
Also, what exactly is so incriminating me trying to vote-switch at the very end? Now that YH is guilty, it doesn't look nice, but how was I supposed to know? I had a hunch, had my reasons, and I followed them as best I could, because I honestly thought we were going to lose.
|
On August 23 2012 19:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
@gk and dp
I noticed it looked suspicious, me trying to change vote at the last minute, but I did so because I did quite a bit of thinking and thought I had enough reason as to why Solar Sail would be a better candidate then YourHarry. The timing really looks suspicious, because I was busy doing other things and my focus was not on Solar when it should have been. As soon as I decided that Solar was a better candidate, I tried doing a switch, when we still had around an hour to go.
I have school in a couple of minutes, but when I get back, I'll explain in detail as to why I think Solar was a better candidate than YourHarry and still is a strong one.
Also, what exactly is so incriminating me trying to vote-switch at the very end? Now that YH is guilty, it doesn't look nice, but how was I supposed to know? I had a hunch, had my reasons, and I followed them as best I could, because I honestly thought we were going to lose.
What are your reasons? having an unexplained 'Hunch' is the justification your harry used constantly. The vote switch at the end was clearly anti town even before harry flipped. It looks supremely suspicious now.
|
gk I'm tired of your demands. It's a game and believe it or not I can still be town without doing exactly what you say.
My Obvious read is by elimination of gk, dp and z-boson. My town reads on /them/ are based on specific posts even I can't remember, the context is just gone when I look through filters for them. I have no idea about stutters so it's his filter I'm going through. Obvious could not be more defensive about Ochrow's posting so it's WIFOM all the way down and I'm just going off the agreed tells of Ochrow and his lack of posting.
dp I see my defence post made absolutely no impact on you so I don't see much point in continuing arguing to you.
|
@SolarSail:
You're right this is a game. But as town the biggest part of this game is scumhunting, so you should agree that refusing to share your reads makes you look extra suspicious.
I'm sorry, but what you've posted doesn't cut it. I want to see reasoning behind your reads, especially in the cases of: Z-Boson and Obvious.
And as you're looking through Stutter's filter, you can post your read on him.
|
@Z-Boson:
There is an abundance of scum motive for forcing a vote switch. We'll leave it at that for now...
But right now I'm not just interested in your defense. Show us you're helping us scumhunt by sharing your current reads!
|
@Stutters:
"Looking through filters," then afks. I expect more than this from you. Share your latest scum reads ASAP.
|
On August 23 2012 23:59 goodkarma wrote:
I'm sorry, but what you've posted doesn't cut it.
I thought you'd say that.
|
@goodkarma: I disagree. But ok, let us leave it at that. I disappeared because I was already spending too much time here, and had a lot of things I needed to do.
I've read through the filters, and for now, this is my take on Solar Sail.
SolarSail
Solar's play can be categorized in three phases:
phase 1) Defensive crybaby. This needn't much mention. However, it is important to note that he went under the radar for 5 days because nobody took him seriously, as everyone was so convinced that he was just a bad bad town.
Also, he recently admitted to this:
So I adopted a strategy to prevent that, which is to be so outrageous that I either get lynched immediately or established as pro-town for a long period of time.
This is completely scummy in itself.
phase 2) Sheepy Lurker. He doesn't make opinions for days on end, and the ones he does, it is always based on what soembody else said. And then suddenly admits to sheeping goodkarma. This is a very convenient move to avoid suspicion, granted your pro-town stance. Also, let us look at one of the only opinions he actually makes (and even so, based on goodkarma's suspicion against Ochrow/Obvious. It's just that this time he tries new arguments.:
@Z-boson, Obvious
I see we've ditched logic in favour of the impassioned rant.
Obvious, that is the worst deliberate post in this thread. You still didn't respond to the thrawn case, or any ongoing case except yourself. No one is expecting you to defend Ochrow's every word, you're responding to a threat that doesn't exist and you're not even up for lynch so I can't call it desperation.
You claimed town. Why would you even do that.
You're actually blaming Ochrow ('maybe he banned himself'). However those bad posts form part of your record, so with the information you have you can do a LOT more than simply throw your hands up.
You mentioned a QT to deny it. Everyone had given up on QT based speculation, why would you bring it back in?
You continued to OMGUS attack goodkarma, when he has been asking only for the kind of info everyone needs from you as a replacement player.
Firstly saying that we are being illogical, and then following it up with an attack on Obvious. Note his arguments.
"He claimed town." That means nothing.
"He mentioned a QT to deny it". Wrong, this is what he said:
There's no QT to refer to, I'm all by my lonesome here and I can sort of see why maybe his ban could have been on purpose since this game is full of delusional people.
"Everyone had given up on QT based speculation, why would you bring it back in?"
Because it was one of the main arguments against him...
And what does he mean with threat that doesn't exist? He was under fire from goodkarma from the start...
It's clearly a failed attempt to make it appear like he is actually coming up with his own opinions, as gk was already on his tail for not making his own opinions.
He then comes around making weird and suspicious comments after thrawn nk. He had very little to do with the lynch and is pretending like he is a bad player, should make his own opinions from now on and should not sheep. Then what does he do? Sheep!!, and blatantly doing so, a little too fast. This reminds me a lot of YourHarry's behavior, these inconsistencies. The fact of the matter is, he was still sheeping, up until night 3. And who is he sheeping? GK, the town leader. This, to me, is a clear attempt to rid himself of suspicion. He tries to assume the "don't take me seriously" stance, and that is EXTREMELY scummy. Saying your vote will be the same of another player without any second thoughts is completely anti-town.
And of course, I didn't mention the anti-town comments he has been making all game, because DP and Obvious's posts against him already have this, posts in which I agree. I will use them in conjunction with this post to strengthen my stance against him.
This is why I thought he was a better lynch than YH, and why I tried to switch at the end. This should be enough for a very strong scum tell. However:
...
Now, of course, he is in phase 3
He has assumed a VERY defensive position as soon as YH was lynched:
After you've finished going through the filters let me know if I've got to defend myself against anything, because tomorrow's gonna come down to me vs Obvious and I'd much rather be going through filters trying to find a third option, especially if Golbat somehow flips town and throws everything off.
My play today was weak sheeping because I believed we had pretty much lost. I wasn't trying to put together a case of my own because it came down to whether goodkarma was right or not. Today I will be more active and more independent.
No one had even said anything yet, and he assumes an exaggerated defensive stance. This sounds too much like a scum that is feeling cornered.
What does he mean, by "if Golbat somehow flips town"? Is he expecting the nk to go on Golbat? Also, since I feel Golbat is most likely town, this could be a huge [u]scumslip
He hasn't bothered making any real defenses of himself and just says that "DarthPunk" is oblivious to his post, when all he actually said was, put simply:
1) "My reads were based on my own independent D1 thoughts."
WRONG. He himself admitted to be sheeping others, when he said he would stop from now on.[
2) "All of this was of course useless information and their very activity in itself was a town tell. They were always there to respond and push cases and true mafia just cannot keep that up; this was more important than their small scumtells everyone jumped on."
What the hell? No way their innocence was easy to determine. This is a really, really weak argument.
3) " I didn't even really check, which ends up giving the appearence of trying to fit in. I wasn't paying enough attention.""
Also admitted not paying attention to the game.
4) " The reason I wasn't posting was that I felt I couldn't affect the outcome but it had the effect of making me look like I wasn't responding to criticism or posting my reads."
Townies are not afraid to look suspicious, and focus on scumhunts.
My read on him from his "explanation" is: He's telling us his exact mistakes as mafia, in hopes that we will value this new found sincerity and ignore him. In summary, he has been anti-town, has been MASSIVELY DEFENSIVE , and admitted to " trying to look unsuspicious" in his original behavior, admitted not paying attention to the game, lied about not sheeping, or at least contradicted himself later on, and admitted to being worried about looking suspicious.
So far, I think he is our best lynch, as his behavior is crystal clear SCUM
I have to run to the lab, I'll be back in 3 hours. Hope this was clear enough and let me know your thoughts.[/b]
|
@Z-Boson:
Thanks for your case write-up.
Would you mind explaining why you think Golbat is likely town?
And you make it clear you feel SolarSail is scum. Who do you think the second scum would be?
|
@goodkarma
I have no logical arguments for why I think Golbat is town. He doesn't care about the game, doesn't show any interest in posting, and the few posts that he has that I can analyze I deem are pretty neutral. He could just as well be scum or town, so let me correct myself:
I have a neutral read on him, but think he is town because I feel Solar is scum and made a scumslip.
Obvious has been under the radar, but he seems incredibly suspicious to me as well.
|
On August 23 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote:
@Obvious:
Just one more question:
Would you mind sharing your top two scum reads?
SolarSail is still one.
I'm at a toss-up between Golbat and Z-Boson right now. Golbat mostly because I still can't believe a town Golbat would have not poked back in yet. How sick can you be to not at least chime in that you're still alive or something? I still haven't gone back to check Z-Boson/YH interactions but I might not have time to before the night ends. I will try though.
Stutters doesn't make my list because of his highly comprehensive case against YH, but this one tidbit just stuck out to me and it means I'll be doing another once-over on him soon too:On August 21 2012 10:48 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 09:40 DarthPunk wrote:
I was roleblocked again. And I don't understand the jhuyt NK at all. I was expecting either myself or goodkarma to get shot. I am guessing it was to try and confuse us. Ditto. I was expecting one of you guys and if they were going to try and throw us off probably a vote on me. Kinda surprised Jhuyt of all people. That post by GK right before the deadline is good though. It really comes down to if you believe GK is town or not and I currently do. I'm going to re-read the thread and try and get some better ideas. This is our last shot town, lets make it count. @Stutters: DITTO as in you were also roleblocked? Or just your suspicions of who the NK targets would be?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
