EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I'm honestly sorry for my long time before posting... I'll explain myself even if some of you might take that as lurking. I want to make a clear statement, I work every day from 5am to 1pm EST. I looked yesterday (Sunday) to see when was the game starting and it had not begun yet. So, I went to bed (when you work this early, you have to sleep xD) I came back today from work, all pumped up about starting my first game of forum mafia (I've only played the one on StarCraft) and I saw that I had 7 pages to read of English (I'm a slow reader in French, just imagine in English xD) After reading all these pages (I'll probable have to go back to some points to make a case ...) I finally post... I don't know how to start, if I should call my role or not just as Hapahauli did even if it might be suspicious to insist on your role and being the one saying what policies we should follow. However, since he looks to have quite a lot of experience, I'll just say it, I'm a Vanilla Townie ! :D Hope I'm not too late to join the game =/ | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
Alright, for the policy, I think it's a great way to play the Day One even if I don't want to make it the only logic I use. I understand that it's almost only for the first day, which makes perfect sense. Saying that because I know how mafia players act when they are mafia (talking about myself when I play on StarCraft or IRL with my friends xD) Now, a player I would think is suspicious... Looking at yourself, being a leader in the discussion and giving the idea for the policy YOU want to adopt can make you suspicious. =/ Not to forget that you seem to have a lot of experience in this game, which would make it easier for you to hide from players such as me that are new to the game. However, it's just a feeling I have and I can't really rely on that (Have to use my scientist mind !  )As for YourHarry, from what I've read, he's acting quite suspiciously, the most of all... I have to tell that I wouldn't know who to vote for =/ I don't feel like we're currently following the policy we instored for Day One For Tolerance, I tried to contact him on Skype to tell him that the game had started, but he won't answer ... (He's my friend) Looks like we'll need someone to substitute him =( | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 07 2012 09:38 Dandel Ion wrote: We need discussion. We NEED it. Just saying "yep let's lynch a lurker" and then go brain-afk will not help us. Ah, ok I see, the policy is just like a warning. Nevermind then xD (It also felt a bit better to just discuss with everybody, trying to find out anything suspicious. + Show Spoiler + You might wanna be careful with that, I'm pretty sure it's forbidden to contact other players even for that. Thanks man, I'll watch myself :D I just want to point out, I managed to make quotes without any first try and YourHarry failed (I hope my quotes will work xD) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 07 2012 09:46 Hapahauli wrote: @ Sideni - thanks for posting your ideas, but perhaps you can elaborate on a couple of items? Why do you find YourHarry suspicious so far? Also, how are we not following our day 1 policy? I don't want to look like I'm jumping a bandwagon. However, being a bit late to the game, I'm trying to read what people are pointing out. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 09:35 Dandel Ion wrote: You start off with the unreadable post, instead of fixing it you make a joke. Yes that point is old, and we've been over it already. Then you vote without giving a reason: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=9#169 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=9#170 Just to jump onto somebody else right after (note that none of either players you accuse have posted inbetween): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=9#174 Both players have also FoS'd you before that, so you respond by voting for them. When pointed out by the powers that be that you are voting wrong, you go back to voting Promethelax instead http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=9#177 I'd like for you to make sense of that, for I cannot. Your play is confusing to me, because as town, I don't see why you'd do that. I gotta say that what Dandel Ion said makes sense to me. I don't really want to re-explain everything since he has already done that. Just the fact that YourHarry voted for the one who was against him makes him suspicious to me. (That's how I used to play in the live custom game i.e. voting againt people who are saying bad things about me xD) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 07 2012 09:59 Lvdr wrote: Sideni: Restating a case made by someone else is not good for establishing town cred. Harry is erratic, but that doesn't mean he's scum. So far you've suspected YH and Hapa. There are 3 scum, so who is the third? Well, I have to tell you that since we can only lynch 1 person per day, I don't see why I would need to get 3 hypothesis. However, I've read back to some things people posted not long ago and I might have found a clue. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 09:23 iamperfection wrote: Thats the problem with yourharry. We keep him around and he will just confise the town with his nonsense. I dont see why would should invest him and carry him to the end of the game. Plus his play from this game has been less than desirable. He made no response to my calling him out early in the game ( A sign that he dosent read the thread) and his hard to follow logic i think will just be detriment going further. He basically just shows how it can be shown as wifom and then just throws a vote out there for no real reason. I want people going forward that will stand behind logic and look to strong cases. ## Vote Yourharry I see we only have one lurker left. You see how sidini didnt get his head bitten off just post dude I used the Bold to point out the most important of his speech. I try to show that iamperfection could be trying to convince us that we don't need YourHarry. The point he's making isn't that we don't want YourHarry because he has great chances to be scum, but because he's confusing. In other words, he wants to get rid of him just because he's not clear and not because he's mafia ! After looking at that, I still feel that YourHarry might be suspicious, but I think that iamperfection has something against him with his case. As Promethelax said On August 07 2012 10:01 Promethelax wrote: his play is simply bad and, as any coach will tell you, bad play is a dumb-tell not a scum tell. | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
## vote iamperfection you can relate to my other post to see why + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 10:21 Sideni wrote: Well, I have to tell you that since we can only lynch 1 person per day, I don't see why I would need to get 3 hypothesis. However, I've read back to some things people posted not long ago and I might have found a clue. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 09:23 iamperfection wrote: Thats the problem with yourharry. We keep him around and he will just confise the town with his nonsense. I dont see why would should invest him and carry him to the end of the game. Plus his play from this game has been less than desirable. He made no response to my calling him out early in the game ( A sign that he dosent read the thread) and his hard to follow logic i think will just be detriment going further. He basically just shows how it can be shown as wifom and then just throws a vote out there for no real reason. I want people going forward that will stand behind logic and look to strong cases. ## Vote Yourharry I see we only have one lurker left. You see how sidini didnt get his head bitten off just post dude I used the Bold to point out the most important of his speech. I try to show that iamperfection could be trying to convince us that we don't need YourHarry. The point he's making isn't that we don't want YourHarry because he has great chances to be scum, but because he's confusing. In other words, he wants to get rid of him just because he's not clear and not because he's mafia ! After looking at that, I still feel that YourHarry might be suspicious, but I think that iamperfection has something against him with his case. As Promethelax said | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I want to know, how did iamperfection learn about Hapa's role ? @YourHarry, I gotta say, you got me with your style and the hate of iamperfection took attention off of you @Hapahauli your case on Promethelax was amazingly well structured ! :O I was about to write a post about myself changing my thoughts (keeping iamperfection on my list, but making Prome my first target) I'd like to know what the next things mean : Fluff, OMGUS, WIFOM, FOS ! Thanks ! I feel like mafia players played quite well for a newbie game. Next game will be awesome :D | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
/in | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
)Following the same strategy as last game (since I'm a newbie), I will do as Hapa. I'm proud to announce you that I will serve the town this game again as my role is Vanilla Town ! :D For the policy, I've already talked about that last game. I'm all good with that kind of logic for Day One. My observations from last game : I think the most important thing that went right is that we were discussing a LOT ! I mean, we've looked at so many cases, read every posts to find anything suspicious. However, we did something wrong... I'm talking about when we stopped suspecting players such as YourHarry. (that was bad good play from YH ) I mean, we all thought he was suspicious, but at some point, iamperfection just got so much attention that we just felt that he was mafia and that YH was clean... We had no proof of YH being town yet, that's what we thought. The only proof we had is that iamperfection was making a huge story about his play, which was suspicious.I could say that I learned something about scumhunting Hapa, but it would mostly be a summary from the good and bad things we did  Same as last game, I have to go to bed early because of my job ! So, I'm now leaving and I'll see you guys tomorrow ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
@Dandel Ion : [QUOTE]On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote: [QUOTE]Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start)[/QUOTE] I have to make it clear ... As I said in XXIII.O, I'm working from 5am to 1pm every day. From the time I go to bed and the time I come back from work (do not forget that I do have a life outside of the Internet. i.e. I went to a music school today to get lessons ! :D) there's a lot of time for people to post and you have to remember, I'm a slow reader [QUOTE]On August 07 2012 09:06 Sideni wrote: I want to make a clear statement, I work every day from 5am to 1pm EST. I looked yesterday (Sunday) to see when was the game starting and it had not begun yet. So, I went to bed (when you work this early, you have to sleep xD) I came back today from work, all pumped up about starting my first game of forum mafia (I've only played the one on StarCraft) and I saw that I had 7 pages to read of English (I'm a slow reader in French, just imagine in English xD)[/QUOTE] I don't know if it's just that you forgot (I have to give it to you, it's from my first post in the game) or if you're trying to skip over that detail just to have one more name on your lurking list. =/ I have to tell you that it makes me a bit suspicious that you didn't know I was at work... However, I'm sure I'll forget (as you perhaps did) that Hapa is going on a trip for his marriage ! (Can't believe you fell for that trap(marriage) Hapa )Regarding the case of mkfuba : Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)... However, I felt that it was kinda early to get a case going, not that it's a bad thing, but it's quite early. An early case and an early vote, could be suspicious to my eyes, but I don't have anything to make a read from you ! At the same time of posting, I want to ask what means EBWOP :D Also, note for @YourHarry : Hi there, nothing personal, it just highly irritates me to see, in your posts, "Hapha" instead of "Hapa" ... Could you please take care of that just for me ? :D It would be so kind of you :D | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
REPOST Alright, finally read through all the posts since I went to bed yesterday ! :D @Dandel Ion : On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote: Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start) I have to make it clear ... As I said in XXIII.O, I'm working from 5am to 1pm every day. From the time I go to bed and the time I come back from work (do not forget that I do have a life outside of the Internet. i.e. I went to a music school today to get lessons ! :D) there's a lot of time for people to post and you have to remember, I'm a slow reader On August 07 2012 09:06 Sideni wrote: I want to make a clear statement, I work every day from 5am to 1pm EST. I looked yesterday (Sunday) to see when was the game starting and it had not begun yet. So, I went to bed (when you work this early, you have to sleep xD) I came back today from work, all pumped up about starting my first game of forum mafia (I've only played the one on StarCraft) and I saw that I had 7 pages to read of English (I'm a slow reader in French, just imagine in English xD) I don't know if it's just that you forgot (I have to give it to you, it's from my first post in the game) or if you're trying to skip over that detail just to have one more name on your lurking list. =/ I have to tell you that it makes me a bit suspicious that you didn't know I was at work... However, I'm sure I'll forget (as you perhaps did) that Hapa is going on a trip for his marriage ! (Can't believe you fell for that trap(marriage) Hapa )Regarding the case of mkfuba : Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)... However, I felt that it was kinda early to get a case going, not that it's a bad thing, but it's quite early. An early case and an early vote, could be suspicious to my eyes, but I don't have anything to make a read from you ! At the same time of posting, I want to ask what means EBWOP :D Also, note for @YourHarry : Hi there, nothing personal, it just highly irritates me to see, in your posts, "Hapha" instead of "Hapa" ... Could you please take care of that just for me ? :D It would be so kind of you :D | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
You have to forgive myself, I didn't remembered the right name ... I was talking about one of the new player, Kronen. I'm sure you're not a fan of people who don't read, me neither I'm always reading everything :D On August 09 2012 13:23 Kronen wrote: On the 14th through the 17th of this month I'll be travelling to, preparing for and going through with my marriage ceremony on the other side of the country. @Dandel Ion : Thanks for your explanation @Everybody : In my repost, I wrote "cote" instead of "quote" ... I'm truly sorry for that grammar mistake ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 10 2012 06:51 Lvdr wrote: + Show Spoiler + Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)... I find this passage by Sideni somewhat scummy. Sideni claims a weak command of english multiple times, but is still comfortable bandwagoning mkfuba's argument with a semantic argument. As i said last game, scum hate making their own cases, and Sideni's is pretty fluffy. FOS Sideni Concerning my bad English : When I say that you have to forgive me if I don't master English that well, I'm just saying that I may sometimes make a mistake with grammar or a vocabular one. I may also not use the appropriate words. However, I am able to translate from English to French and the quote I'm referring to can be read that way : "Hapa et YH sont mafias ou civils ?" You have to understand that translating from word to word, I can easily say that I would have said something a specific way... Concerning the fact that I didn't make my own case : Why would I make a second case about yourself if mkfuba already made one ? Mostly when I have nothing to add to it... If something convinces me, I'll tell you what about it convinces me ... Finally, you say that I'm fluffy (you don't give a specific example and I don't mind). However, just imagine if I would have made my own case about yourself. The exact same thing that our buddy mkfuba said ! It would be even more fluffy ! Sometimes, even if you're town, it's just better to keep yourself quiet if you have nothing to add (it just creates confusion) Your suspicions about myself make me even more suspicious... Making this post, ou just act like I'm an easy target and because I think you're suspicious, you turn against me (which is, in my opinion, somewhat of a way a scum would act) I have to call it : FOS lvdr | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote: If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case? Is my mentality just wrong here? Well, I either answer to his post saying that I don't even care defending myself or I explain myself (just as I did) or I just don't answer... What is the smartest choice in your opinion ? I would gladly sacrifice myself to turn green to reveal that he's suspicious. However, I don't think it's smart If I just say that I don't care, it just feels to me that I don't pay attention to all details =/ If I don't answer, I'm being a lurker and this is bad for my party ! Gotta keep talking and if the talking can lead to something, then it's perfect ! :D So, last choice, I decided to explain myself. There's nothing wrong about explaining yourself ever ! On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote: How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me. Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all ! Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD Well, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 10 2012 08:36 Dandel Ion wrote: I think you misunderstood a little... I'm saying you shouldn't hold back anything just because you're concerned how it'd reflect on you. Taking note of that ! I just don't want a mislynch for town xD | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 10 2012 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote: Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all ! Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD Well, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right ! Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations. Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it. Alright sir, I need some explanation from yourself ... You tell me in that post that a good town player would avoid confusion (that's why I cut on what I say sometimes). Although, in a post before, you're telling me that I shouldn't be afraid to say what I think... On August 10 2012 08:36 Dandel Ion wrote: I'm saying you shouldn't hold back anything just because you're concerned how it'd reflect on you. You're not coherent in your sayings. (I know that I can be incoherent as well, but that's why I excuse myself and that I explain my thoughts) I made a mistake in my logic and I thought it would be great to assume that it's my fault and to explain it instead of just saying "nevermind, I made a mistake"... As I already said, you're not coherent in your sayings about what you want me to do and it makes you suspicious to my eyes. Next thing that bugs me is that I've been pressuring lvdr a bit and at some point, you just came to defend him ... =/ I'm currently under pressure by both lvdr and you and nobody comes to help me I'm suspicious about you two. I looked at all the posts of lvdr and not a single one refers to you (in the current game). I did the same with your posts and the only time I have a result where you're talking about lvdr, it's either because you use a quote from someone talking about lvdr or because you're defending him... There's nothing, whatsoever, in the game, where you interact with each other, yet you both seem to be teamed up against me right now... You didn't even suspected each other even if there's enough material to ask yourself some questions ... For these reasons, I want to say FOS both of you, but I don't know if I can do that according to the rules. But, you're both on the same level of suspicions. | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 10 2012 09:26 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 09:19 Sideni wrote: Alright sir, I need some explanation from yourself ... You tell me in that post that a good town player would avoid confusion (that's why I cut on what I say sometimes). Although, in a post before, you're telling me that I shouldn't be afraid to say what I think... You're not coherent in your sayings. (I know that I can be incoherent as well, but that's why I excuse myself and that I explain my thoughts) I made a mistake in my logic and I thought it would be great to assume that it's my fault and to explain it instead of just saying "nevermind, I made a mistake"... As I already said, you're not coherent in your sayings about what you want me to do and it makes you suspicious to my eyes. Next thing that bugs me is that I've been pressuring lvdr a bit and at some point, you just came to defend him ... =/ I'm currently under pressure by both lvdr and you and nobody comes to help me I'm suspicious about you two. I looked at all the posts of lvdr and not a single one refers to you (in the current game). I did the same with your posts and the only time I have a result where you're talking about lvdr, it's either because you use a quote from someone talking about lvdr or because you're defending him... There's nothing, whatsoever, in the game, where you interact with each other, yet you both seem to be teamed up against me right now... You didn't even suspected each other even if there's enough material to ask yourself some questions ... For these reasons, I want to say FOS both of you, but I don't know if I can do that according to the rules. But, you're both on the same level of suspicions. What? Please quote the part where I defend Lvdr. Because I'm pretty sure I didn't do that. At this point, I'm almost convinced you INTENTIONALLY misunderstand what I'm writing. You shouldn't hold back READS and CASES. You SHOULD think about what you're posting. What of this is hard to understand? I don't get your "logic". Clarify please. Well, it looks like I overestimated the number of posts where you kinda defend lvdr. (note that defending isn't just to give counter arguments, it's also to take the attention off the thing you want to protect.) Here's where it begins. On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote: Okay here's the thing I don't get (afair lvdr really stood out with that reasoning in game 0.5 - he was town that game though): If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case? The first bold thing is something I will come back to later. Alright, so with the question you ask me right here, you make me feel like you're using what lvdr brought. (I was explaining myself to him by that point.) So, when you saw that you had a chance to interrogate me, you took it. Just as a child would get into the lie of his friend. Since then, you're still on my case and you just now decided to explain what you meant clearly ... (leaving me enough time to believe a lot of things and seem confused) As I said, defending isn't only to use counter-arguments to protect someone, it can also be just the fact that you take the attention off the thing you want to protect. Well, since you started to get on my case, we haven't talked about lvdr and you haven't even talked about how he behaves ... (Without any hesitation taking care of me) The first thing I had bolded is somehow unusual to me =/ We all know lvdr was town last game. However, you have to specify that fact ? Why would you have to tell us that he was town ? Is it because you know his rank in this game ? And if you know his rank, we all know where you belong The "though" at the end of that sentence is what gets most of my attention ! It feels like you're saying : "Last time he was X, now he's Y" and since there are only 2 possibilities and X != Y, he has to be mafia if we follow what you're saying ! I hope that's clearer ! If there's anything you want me to specify, I would love if you could ask a specific question about a specific part of the post ... Which is something you haven't done yet and you just let me answer to something that isn't specific to give an unspecific answer that will cause confusion. In that confusion, it might be easier for you to fool me into saying things that I don't mean and to get me lost so my townie fellows would think of lynching me ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
@Dandel Ion : I'm still suspicious from both yoursefl and lvdr. | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I was cutting grass this morning and while doing so, I thought about the game ! (You have a lot to think about when you're cutting grass )With my the time I had, I realized I had enough material to build a case ! (Trying to make it more organized this time with points as ShadySands told me in one of his last posts !) Case on Dandel Ion : 1- Mkfuba made a great case against Lvdr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#462) After that, a bunch of people commented on the case he had made. Since there are 3 scums, we are 9 citizens which would make a huge majority (IF ONLY TOWNIES COMMENTED) of people who talked about the case of Mkfuba. On August 09 2012 15:08 YourHarry wrote: + Show Spoiler + I don't buy your case against Lvdr. While, whether one-liner posts without any logical explanations is beneficial to town in the early stages of the game is up for an argument, I do not think scums have tendency to post such one liners. I (though may be an exception) tend to post bunch of trolling one-liners as town (see my previous 2 games). Second, his read that both "me and Hapha are both scums or both towns" seems to be based on some logic. I agree that maybe he could have posted a quick explanations behind his read, but allowing some time for people to think about how Lvdr arrived at such conclusion could be good for town. In this case, he could have may be said "Discuss" or something. But as you mentioned, NEITHER town or scum has a motivation to post random suspicions. Add the fact that he was drunk... I fail to see scummy reads from Lvdr. Now, take Lvdr's last quote: "More plausible than yh then?" In context, Lvdr was simply asking Hapha for his opinions on who he thinks is scummier, me or Lvdr. If Lvdr indeed thought that Hapha and I were scums together, I can imagine Lvdr's intention to confirm this read based on Hapha's response. And, mkfuba, by your putative "scum motivation" do you mean Lvdr is actively trying to confuse town by posting incoherent one liners? If so, I find it hard to imagine scums methodically engineering incoherent one liners to confuse town. In summary, I accuse you of possibly attempting to endorse/set-up Lvdr bandwagon by fabricating evidence from bunch one-liners posted when he was drunk. On August 10 2012 01:21 Hapahauli wrote: + Show Spoiler + @ Mkfuba: Good case, and much much better than the one on Prom from yetserday. I had the same thoughts on the "both mafia or both town" quote - it isn't how townies normally think. He doesn't consider the possibility of one of us being scum or one being town, etc. On August 10 2012 03:29 Promethelax wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey all, sorry for my late start. I was at work when we began and passed out when I came home. my gut feeling is that lvdr is playing too dumb to be scum but after Harry's stellar scum play in XXIII.O (hah, see what I did there) I have to leave him as a null to slightly scummy read. On August 10 2012 03:07 iamperfection wrote: + Show Spoiler + @Lvdr Please do not lurk even though their is a lot of suspicon on you right now. I think mkfuba makes a lot of good points most specifically the fact that you stated they are either both town or both scum.I think that you need to address and i will be intrested to see what you have to say. On August 10 2012 06:10 Sideni wrote: + Show Spoiler + Regarding the case of mkfuba : Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" However, Dandel Ion never said a word about this case even if there was a lot to talk about ! (Can even just say that you agree or you don't) He once mentioned that he knew he looked like a lurker, but he didn't know what to say. On August 10 2012 04:54 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + I know I look like a lurker, and that it doesn't fit my "meta" I just don't know what to say... However, when the case of Mkfuba came, he didn't say a word ! There's plenty of things he could have said. If he doesn't know what to say about Mkfuba's case, it's probably because it was a strong case and that it would be bad for a plausible scum team ! After Mkfuba posted his case, Dandel Ion still maintained that he had nothing to say. (look bolded text in next quote) I want to note that I didn't have much to say about Mkfuba's case, but I said that he convinced me and such things (which got me Dandel Ion's attention). On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 04:51 Promethelax wrote: I am suspicious of Dandel's play thus far: He started by skating over the policy discussion, which is fair since we all just started a game together. He also suggests a silly policy lynch and doesn't give us a read or an opinion. Okay, first post. Just had to post. Whatever. But almost 24 hours later he comes back into the thread to say: which is basic advice to a newb that we could all give. He hasn't given the thread anything and was so excited before hand. (Look at all of his posts between game 23a and 23b, I am forced to think that something changed and so his excitement died down, I read this as a scum tell and will be watching Dandel closely. Just to clarify this shit, "basic advice to a newb" is the point of this. It's called "Newbie Mafia", you know? I'd like for you to point out the exact syllable that's "scummy" about it. Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start) I'd like to know the reason why I'm so far above them, because I'm pretty sure you don't have one. Between YourHarry being YourHarry, mkfuba attacking YourHarry for being YourHarry, Lvdr being lvdr, mkfuba attacking lvdr for being lvdr, and the new people doing blanket statements about policy, I was yet unable to find anything I felt I could post on. That's my reason. Here's more ! On August 10 2012 05:54 Dandel Ion wrote: I was only 50% serious about that. So no, but if no better targets come up on day 1, I'll contemplate it again. Here, even if some good cases are out, he just assumes that we won't find any target(recalling that he doesn't have anything to say) and tells us that he wouldn't mind to lynch YourHarry. Why would he don't mind lynching YourHarry even if YourHarry is way more coherent this time ? I think he knows something ! 2- First thing he said after Mkfuba's case On August 10 2012 04:07 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 04:01 Lvdr wrote: I was writing a breakdown of Yh's town claim... then I read that it got retracted. So much for that. Given that the claim was retracted and YH (according to him) didn't know his alignment when he made the claim we cannot really draw any conclusions based on it. Any argument would be a WIFOM from YH's point of view, but even YH didn't know what his alignment was. That's assuming he said the truth. And you should never just assume that. Lvdr mentioned that it was impossible to draw any conclusions about YH. However, Dandel Ion still answers to him that it's just if we assume YH said the truth. It's kinda fluffy, he just says the same thing Lvdr points out. His answer seems to me to be some sort of tip that you would give to a friend. I'm implying here that they could be both scums. 3- Dandel Ion tries to pull the attention off of him and Lvdr On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 04:51 Promethelax wrote: I am suspicious of Dandel's play thus far: He started by skating over the policy discussion, which is fair since we all just started a game together. He also suggests a silly policy lynch and doesn't give us a read or an opinion. Okay, first post. Just had to post. Whatever. But almost 24 hours later he comes back into the thread to say: which is basic advice to a newb that we could all give. He hasn't given the thread anything and was so excited before hand. (Look at all of his posts between game 23a and 23b, I am forced to think that something changed and so his excitement died down, I read this as a scum tell and will be watching Dandel closely. Just to clarify this shit, "basic advice to a newb" is the point of this. It's called "Newbie Mafia", you know? I'd like for you to point out the exact syllable that's "scummy" about it. Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start) I'd like to know the reason why I'm so far above them, because I'm pretty sure you don't have one. Between YourHarry being YourHarry, mkfuba attacking YourHarry for being YourHarry, Lvdr being lvdr, mkfuba attacking lvdr for being lvdr, and the new people doing blanket statements about policy, I was yet unable to find anything I felt I could post on. That's my reason. Here (look at the bolded text in the quote), we see that Dandel Ion gives as many names as possible to give people as many options as possible. In the manner he writes, we see that he's not happy that some suspicions are upon him. (Note that at that point, I wasn't lurking, I was just following the schedule I said I was going to follow when we were in XXIII.O) On August 10 2012 06:23 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 06:10 Sideni wrote: Arg ... Ok, looks like my cote didn't work REPOST Alright, finally read through all the posts since I went to bed yesterday ! :D @Dandel Ion : I have to make it clear ... As I said in XXIII.O, I'm working from 5am to 1pm every day. From the time I go to bed and the time I come back from work (do not forget that I do have a life outside of the Internet. i.e. I went to a music school today to get lessons ! :D) there's a lot of time for people to post and you have to remember, I'm a slow reader I don't know if it's just that you forgot (I have to give it to you, it's from my first post in the game) or if you're trying to skip over that detail just to have one more name on your lurking list. =/ I have to tell you that it makes me a bit suspicious that you didn't know I was at work... However, I'm sure I'll forget (as you perhaps did) that Hapa is going on a trip for his marriage ! (Can't believe you fell for that trap(marriage) Hapa )Regarding the case of mkfuba : Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)... However, I felt that it was kinda early to get a case going, not that it's a bad thing, but it's quite early. An early case and an early vote, could be suspicious to my eyes, but I don't have anything to make a read from you ! At the same time of posting, I want to ask what means EBWOP :D Also, note for @YourHarry : Hi there, nothing personal, it just highly irritates me to see, in your posts, "Hapha" instead of "Hapa" ... Could you please take care of that just for me ? :D It would be so kind of you :D EBWOP = Edit By Way Of Post Basically "edit:", just in another post, since you're not allowed to edit in mafia. Shit I just explained something, sorry Promethelax, I'll never do it again Here, he's not even placing in spoilers my huge ass explanation ! Could cause confusion and regarding what he recently told me, he knows what will cause confusion ! So, as I said, he's quoting me (without spoilers) instead of just saying : "@Sideni : EBWOP = Edit By Way Of Post". Confusion can be used to take the attention off something (Lvdr in that case). Indeed, if we don't know where to look, we don't know where to pay attention if we aren't experienced to something. Also, he ends with a joke that seems to be irrelevant. However, adding that joke can draw attention from people instead of letting them pay attention to the case we're talking about ! On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 07:32 Sideni wrote: Concerning my bad English : When I say that you have to forgive me if I don't master English that well, I'm just saying that I may sometimes make a mistake with grammar or a vocabular one. I may also not use the appropriate words. However, I am able to translate from English to French and the quote I'm referring to can be read that way : "Hapa et YH sont mafias ou civils ?" You have to understand that translating from word to word, I can easily say that I would have said something a specific way... Concerning the fact that I didn't make my own case : Why would I make a second case about yourself if mkfuba already made one ? Mostly when I have nothing to add to it... If something convinces me, I'll tell you what about it convinces me ... Finally, you say that I'm fluffy (you don't give a specific example and I don't mind). However, just imagine if I would have made my own case about yourself. The exact same thing that our buddy mkfuba said ! It would be even more fluffy ! Sometimes, even if you're town, it's just better to keep yourself quiet if you have nothing to add (it just creates confusion) Your suspicions about myself make me even more suspicious... Making this post, ou just act like I'm an easy target and because I think you're suspicious, you turn against me (which is, in my opinion, somewhat of a way a scum would act) I have to call it : FOS lvdr Okay here's the thing I don't get (afair lvdr really stood out with that reasoning in game 0.5 - he was town that game though): If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case? You should not be scared of getting lynched, like, ever. People might accuse you of bandwagoning - so what? Once you flip green, it's just more evidence against them. I understand that tunneling a single person too hard would be bad, but two people is not too much by any stretch of the imagination. Is my mentality just wrong here? In that post, he still doesn't use the spoiler and leaves my huge post ! In the bolded part of the text, we can see that he's asking me questions, but we can also see that he has intentions behind those. Yes indeed, we can see that he thinks I'm concerned that I'm on a case, trying to draw attention from people on me ! (I'm not concerned, I'm just explaining myself) After that, he goes on and propose me that I shouldn't be scared of being lynched and to get accused of bandwagoning. He ends this sentence asking me what it would change. It would just change that I'm alive and I'm there to help town !! He even says that if I die, it would only help town to get more info about the people who would bandwagon on me... Why would a town player be happy to get information from a sacrifice of his mate !? On the first hand, why would he ever think about that if he was town ?! On August 10 2012 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote: Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all ! Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD Well, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right ! Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations. Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it. In the bold part here, we can see that he's trying to make me look scummy when in fact I was just claiming the fact that I made a mistake instead of letting it go on ! Doing so, he's again trying to get the attention off of him and Lvdr (Saying Lvdr because it all started because I was talking about Mkfuba's case). He's also trying to make people think that my explanation and the acknowledgement of my mistake are just ways to create confusion ! Note that town players want to AVOID (as he said so well) confusion and that's why I would say I made a mistake. On August 11 2012 00:57 Dandel Ion wrote: I am currently most suspicious of Sideni (just in case I didn't make that clear enough yet) I could see the merits of lynching lvdr or Axero too, but I'd be a bit more hesitant on them In this post, we can clearly see that he's calling me suspicious (no shit ! )Again, it would be to draw attention off of him or Lvdr ! Note that he didn't explain specificaly why I would be suspicious (I'm just trying to explain myself as fast as possible to be the most active as I can, looks like it's not the way to do it !) Then, he follows saying that he would be suspicious about Lvdr (First time in the game and he already talks about lynching) and about Axero. However, we see that he tells us that he's hesitant which would mean that he doesn't want to have Lvdr lynched for real (just a way to get a distance from each other since he haven't talked about him yet !) 4- Never really scumhunted before today (almost time to lynch someone) I don't want to post all the quotes of Dandel Ion (I posted almost all of them in my case). But, here's one more that can cause confusion which is a one liner ! On August 10 2012 08:48 Dandel Ion wrote: Argh typos in a post chiding players for not checking what they post, gg me. So, looking at all the quotes I showed, the only thing he did is the following : - Talking about policy; - Said he wasn't as lurky than other lurkers - Said he had nothing to say - Posted some a one liner useless to everybody (I once corrected a typo I made, but it was within an other post !) - He pointed out that I was bad at giving arguments and that my logic could be confusing - He never talked about the cases that we saw ! He just recently started to talk about some things, but it's almost all about me and he didn't bring a strong case yet... From all the reasons I gave above, I do believe Dandel Ion is part of mafia and I wouldn't be surprise to see Lvdr in his team ! ##FOS Lvdr ##vote Dandel Ion | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
First of all, I want to add something to my suspicions on a probable scum team (Dandel Ion and Lvdr). I know, I haven't spotted someone else yet... So, in the next quote, Dandel Ion is explaining to Hapa why he thinks I'm a good target and that Axero is just a lurker that we can't say much about. On August 11 2012 01:22 Dandel Ion wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 11 2012 01:02 Hapahauli wrote: Also, why the hesitancy against Lvdr and Axero? What part of the suspicions against them do you feel aren't valid (or are less valid than yours against Sideni)? Axero is just a lurker to me - in fact I see much of your suspicion towards him as OMGUS since he FoS'd you early in his posts, also your assumption that he was told to not lurk by the mafia coach. I don't share your assumption about the coach, and I can't OMGUS him, so to me, he's just a lurker with slightly scummy posts. I wouldn't call it hesitancy - I'd be kinda okay with lynching him after all. I just think Sideni is a better target. That my be biased, but it's how I feel about it atm. Getting to lvdr in a sec However, his last words, made me even more suspicious ! You can all see by yourself, he's going to explain his thoughts about Lvdr later ! To me, it just looks like he has to analyze everything before giving a reason why he's hesitant to see if it matches ! Now, do you remember when I clearly showed that Dandel Ion had nothing to say a lot of the times ? Well, he just recently talked about people doing so and said that it was a scum tell ! (look at the next quote) On August 11 2012 01:34 Dandel Ion wrote: Alright, lvdr has lower priority because I think most of the case against him comes from the clusterfuck between him, YH and mkfuba (from this page on pretty much), which I assume will make sense once we know some flips, but right now, I'm not sure how to read it. But as I write this he posts: + Show Spoiler + On August 11 2012 01:19 Lvdr wrote: Regarding my apparent lack of scumhunting: I was the first to make a case against Sideni, however, Dandel started grilling Sideni so I decided to back off. In my opinion, Sideni has not done a particularly good job of defending himself. The strange analogies don't mean anything and contribute to a filter that is incredibly fluffy. Just because I decided to question him a bit, doesn't mean you shouldn't. You had the same reasoning in game 0.5, going so far as to not post cases on scummy players because the "good ones were already taken". That is a reasoning I can't share, and it looks scummy to me. But in game 0.5 you were town, so I don't think I can use that as a scum tell comfortably. So, during the whole game he acted like there was nothing to say even if good cases were out ! And now, he's saying that he can't share the reasoning of Lvdr which is to not post cases because "the good ones were already taken". However, he did follow this logic (even if he was claiming that it's just because he had nothing to say !) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 03:02 Hapahauli wrote: @ Sideni - what would happen to your case if... say Lvdr flipped green at one point in the game? Your case basically assumes that Lvdr is mafia, and based on Dandel Ion's interactions with Lvdr, you voted on Lvdr. Why aren't you voting Lvdr based on this? I actually haven't thought about that ! Your logic makes complete sense to me and I now see the contradiction in voting for Dandel Ion ! The logic behind it would then be that we first go with Mkfuba's case on Lvdr and from there, we can tell if my case is good. Thanks for making me understand myself, I'm changing my vote ! xD @Lvdr : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=31#616 point 1 : As you know, we are 9 towns and there are 3 mafia. 6 of everbody talked about Mkfuba's case. Assuming that you are mafia I would assume that mafia players wouldn't comment on the case or at least, they would try to find something bad about the case which didn't happen. So, my guess is that all 6 people who commented are town and lurkers could be town as well. point 2 : The thing is that YourHarry, before Dandel Ion comments, DOESN'T behave like a scum ! point 3 : I want you to explain me how do I seem to lack a basic mafia strategy ? I mean, why would we sacrifice a town to get information when we can lynch someone who looks scummy ?! ##unvote Dandel Ion ##FOS Dandel Ion ##vote Lvdr | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 03:43 Lvdr wrote: YOU look scummy. Alright ... I have never been scum and it looks like I behave like one ... I don't know how the scum Sideni would behave like. However, I can tell you that I haven't changed my way of playing ... I'm just stuck at the same position iamperfection was at during last game when he was the only one left to vote for YourHarry ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:09 Promethelax wrote: Sedini's case on Dandel is awful. I still think the guy seems scummy but after that case I would prefer to vote for Sideni. His follow-up unvote and vote switch as soon as the pressure hit gives me a scum vibe and for now I don't know for you, but I changed my vote because I realized it was wrong ... I realized that Hapahauli was right. How dumb would I be if I would realize something, but then I would follow my wrong judgement ? What is the most scummy, to change your mind and not being afraid of doing so or to be blind and forget about everything ? | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:25 Dandel Ion wrote: He has the THEORETICAL ability to think his posts through, he just doesn't do it. He posts something, and says its bullshit right after, in the same post. That means he should know he should delete it in the first place, but he doesn't make the connection to actually do it. You're driving me crazy with that ... I'm using the analogy to prove my point and then, I realize my point is bad (NOT THE ANALOGY). So, instead of sticking to my bad point, I just leave the analogy there to show you what I thought to acknowledge my mistake ! I could indeed just say : "Fuck it, I made a mistake!" without any explanation ! After that, you would just want to know about it ! And if you don't want to know, don't cry that I explained my mistake !!! @Hapahauli : Is it bad only because it relies on what Lvdr turns out to be ? If that's the only reason, I would be happy ... But, looking at all the time I took to write it, I felt it was pretty good ='( Require vote count please ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:29 Hapahauli wrote: To be honest, I'm shocked at how little attention that Axero is getting. He's laying low and has demonstrated some clear anti-town behavior. Some players have mentioned having suspicions of him, but no one has so much as FOS'd him. Go with me a bit here: If Axero was town, wouldn't he be a REALLY EASY MISLYNCH FOR MAFIA? Why has NO ONE voted for him? I'm inclined to think that his mafia buddies are covering for him! Can't bold bolded text, but I agree that he would be an easy mislynch for mafia ! Actually, I've read through all your posts about him and I've been thinking about it quite a bit ! But, not enough to talk about it, being busy with Lvdr and Dandel Ion. (I seriously think I'm in the same situation as iamperfection from day 0.5 ...) The thing is that I'm just so sure about Lvdr that I want to concentrate on him to see what would happen of Dandel Ion. And then, I think Axero would be an easy lynch for day 2... I just feel like I won't survive the night if we think Lvdr and Dandel Ion are clean ... | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 04:37 Axero wrote: Going to mention this again, because it's still striking me as really odd. mkfuba07 hasn't posted since "August 09 2012 19:18." He's been fairly active from the beginning and just dropping off in activity this close to the end of the day seems extremely... not town... Does anyone else feel the same? Is this common and not something I should be looking into? Well, what is really suspicious is that we are currently talking about you and then, from nowhere, you try to draw the attention off of yourself by talking about mkfuba being lurking ! ##FOS Axero | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 09 2012 08:02 prplhz wrote: 12 alive it takes 6 to lynch. | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 05:35 goodkarma wrote: He's like: "Hmmm. I guess you're right. What I'm doing doesn't make sense. Instead of clearly explaining my motives let me fix that." I am not convinced there weren't other reasons for him voting Dandel Ion over Lvdr. He should have come out and say what they were before switching his vote. This feels like a move that was made to take suspicion away from himself by making his voting pattern more consistent with his arguments. His quickness to flip his vote when called out for inconsistency of action feels scummy to me. + Show Spoiler + Combined with the points of my prior case against him, which are spoilered below, he is my scummiest read right now, and has earned my vote.: ##Vote: Sideni My earlier case against him (and Axero too): + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 13:56 goodkarma wrote: I have read through everyone's filters, and have a few case points on who I see as most scummy right now: Sideni: One scum-read I currently have on him is mistaking the name of the person who was getting married (Kronen). This was mentioned before, but I feel it is an important point. If you're struggling to read and write in English to the point of scrutinizing every word, how can you make this kind of mistake of names? This fits the profile of an unconcerned scum combing the thread before posting. It may not seem big, but in my last game (NMM XXII) the last scum we caught made this same mistake. I believe it's been said before, and I too agree that his posts are a bit fluffy. Especially considering that if writing every English word is meticulous, I would expect his posts to generally be very concise and succinct. Instead, we've seen posts like this one: Two things about this post: the first is I have no idea why a orange or grapefruit metaphor was necessary, or even helpful. The only thing it serves to do, in my opinion, is distract from the rest of the post with a bit of fluff (a bit ironic for a post defending against making fluffy posts). Perhaps Sideni indeed does struggle with the English language, but some of his fluffy posts have indicated to me that it could plausibly be a scum-motivated excuse. The second thing: "Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD" There is no town-motivated reason whatsoever for making this statement. It's basically saying, "I don't know what I'm doing. Don't listen to me." This statement feels very scum-motivated, as it's a great statement to make if you're trying to keep your head low. Another quote that gives me a scum read on Sideni: It feels like he's trying a little too hard here to show he's pro-town. Why does something this obvious need to be said? This quote feels scum-motivated to me. For the reasons I've mentioned above: ##FoS: Sideni Axero: Axero's mentioned on more than one occasion that this is his first game. Describing noobiness is a common scum trait, as it allows them to discredit themselves and have people not take them as seriously, or read as much into their cases for mislynches as they should be. He then goes on to describe how he plans to post without reading the thread.: You should never post without reading first. This is strongly anti-town play. Combined with your semi-lurky behavior, you're looking scummy to me.: ##FoS: Axero Axero: Axero's most recent actions have not gone unnoticed by me. Unfortunately, I have seen really bad townie lurkers before + Show Spoiler + (I know he's posted a lot of one-liners today, but until he contributes his first post of substance I consider him a lurker) + Show Spoiler + Second, posting nonsense filler like this: On August 11 2012 01:46 Axero wrote: EBWOP: Spooning required, clothes optional. This is spam. It adds no content to the thread and drowns out valid arguments which are critical for us to see so close to the voting deadline. Axero is definitely looking scummier than he did before. But I'm not ready to rule out his actions as being those of a bad townie yet. First of all, the thing is that my case all relied on Mkfuba's case. So, if Lvdr is scum, then, my case makes sense, but if he's not, my case is bad. I am just too sure that Lvdr is mafia, that I made a whole case on Dandel Ion ... Now, because I was that sure, I prefered to vote for Dandel Ion ... I know you don't give a lot of credits for that explanation. However, remember that, even if I'm town, I'm still a human that may have some incoherence in its mind ! I just felt like Hapahauli was right, so why wouldn't I change my vote if my mind changed ?! Like I did with Mkfuba's case, I agreed with him. Hell, I even tried to explain why I agreed and Dandel got on me telling me that I wasn't making much sense !!! I agree because they are right, that's all ! About Kronen's marriage, I already made my apologies... I was just so sure that it was Hapahauli ! Again, I'm a human and I believe in myself, so I don't have to always double check what I'm saying ! Plus, I was just refering to it as an example when I was saying that Dandel Ion forgot about my work schedule (he said I was lurking when, in fact, I was just working ...) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 05:53 Dandel Ion wrote: Alright I thought about it. I think this is how I want to proceed: We lynch lvdr. He flips town, we lynch Sideni day 2 and probably mkfuba on day 3 He flips scum, you guys probably lynch me day 2 I'm pretty sure we get at least 1 scum with that. I won't lie, I'd like to have Sideni out of the game as fast as I can, but we all make our sacrifices.... Alright, I'm confused ... I feel like I've been wrong the whole day even if I feel like being in iamperfection's shoes in day 0.5 ... (remember he was on YH's case and YH turned out to be mafia even if iamperfection was the most suspicious of all) The fact that you propose to lynch Lvdr first makes me really confused =/ I don't know if you planned that answer from me, but I feel like my case doesn't stand anymore since you want Lvdr to go down first ... If he turns out to be mafia, you know that you die on Day 2. ##unvote Lvdr ##FOS Lvdr ##unFOS Dandel Ion | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I really don't know who to vote for anymore =/ | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
Plus, I always explain myself ! Axeros, just pointed me in the direction of Mkfuba ! I don't know how many votes are on me =/ Looks like there are 5 so far. I have nothing to defend myself other than bad play ... I can't be more honest, I'm trying so hard to help, but I just can't find anything ... Are you guys telling me to lurk would save me just as Dandel Ion was doing at some point ? | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
As I saw my last case got me in trouble, I'll just skip to the next lurker ... (Axeros) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I want to ask you guys a question. If you lynch me (looks like it's what is going to happen) (Note : I'm Vanilla Town. I'm not even joking, I'm just bad --> first time claiming being noob) Well, what will you get of that mislynch ? What will happen after I die ? No information at all because I'm currently not decided !!! I can't just choose someone else right off the bat after this huge ass arguement with Dandel ! As for now, I'm looking at Hapahauli's case on Axero ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
Since Dandel Ion proposed to lynch Lvdr first to see what is his alignement. Then, if Lvdr turns out to be mafia, that would mean Dandel Ion is mafia as well. From there, I thought that Dandel Ion wouldn't sacrifice 2 mafia players. And so, if I vote for Lvdr and he turns out to be mafia, that would mean that I have to skip all over my case on Dandel because he's ready to sacrifice 2 mafias. (which would be dumb) So, that's the reasoning behind that ! I can't vote Lvdr because if he turns out to be green, Dandel said that I was the one being lynched (He's right on that). All this confused me and I decided to choose someone else (because I know that I'm town and I don't want to get lynch on Day 2 ...) I feel a lot of confusion in what I just wrote, but I don't know how to fix it. If any questions, it will be a pleasure for me to answer. I'm currently stating, helping myself with Hapa's case on Axero, the reasons why I think he's suspicious in another post ! Shouldn't be too long. | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 10 2012 13:21 Hapahauli wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 13:12 Lvdr wrote: There is also a similarity between Axero and Golbat last game: saying you have things to post without posting them. Tough to read though: as always bad play is not necessarily scummy play. If that was the basis of my suspicion on Axero alone, I'd agree. However, there's a couple of more things that concern me: 1) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=22#423 In Axero's first post, he's very excited and happy to play the game: ... then all of a sudden he lurk lurk lurks, and openly claims to have not been reading the thread. 2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=23#460 He posts the above, which is filled with pretty terrible logic (mafia bussing people early on day 1, lol?) 3) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=27#535 He posts an FOS on me based on vague logic and gut-feeling. 4) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=27#538 In this post, he uses newbiness as an excuse for not checking the thread and promises to respond after his DOTA game. So yeah, that's my case on him so far, and I just convinced myself to vote for him. If you'd like this in Wall-O-Text format, let me know. I think it's easier to read/understand for most people this way though. ##Vote Axero Adding something to your point #1 : On August 09 2012 10:04 Axero wrote: I'm torn on the lurking policy, just because I'd feel bad if I accidentally voted for a fellow townie; but we must do what we must do to save our homes! I feel that in his last sentence, he says "I'd feel bad if I accidentally voted for a fellow townie" to excuse what he's saying next to it, Let's say he would have just said : "We must do what we must do !", we would all have been on his case from the beginning ! Adding something to point #2 : On August 09 2012 14:22 Axero wrote: + Show Spoiler + That doesn't mean Hapa is a townie. Scum know who eachother are, therefore Hapa could know your alignment and could be setting you up to get lynched. It's a good way to shift focus to someone else while also seeming like a townie. It is also possible that they are both scum. Setting someone up as a sacrifice to ensure everyone views the other as a townie would seem like a very effective strategy. Just my two cents. (Post made from mobile so apologies for lack of quotes) So, let's pretend Axero is mafia. He says that YOU(Hapahauli) could be mafia trying to get an ally lynched to look like a town player. Why do you think he's talking about you ? Why are you the one he targeted ? He knows you're not mafia ! (Still assuming he's mafia) Adding something to point #3 : On August 10 2012 09:28 Axero wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2012 08:55 Hapahauli wrote: Un-Fos Lvdr and iamperfection I'm pretty satisfied with Lvdr's activity and defense so far. In addition, he's going after lurkers (Sideni) and is actively defending himself. I see enough similarities with his town play from the aborted game to give him the benefit of the doubt. As for iamperfection, I think I'm falling victim to confirmation bias on him again. My case was based around his "going with the flow," and his questioning of Promethelax kinda destroys that bit of it. I'm satisfied enough with his activity to lay down my case. However, I do find two players very suspicious at the moment: FOS Axero and GoodKarma Both players have been pretty lurky so far; Axero with 2 posts and GK with 3. Furthermore, neither has contributed anything significant to the discussion. GoodKarma's three posts have only to do with disagreeing with the lurker policy. He hasn't done anything else while everyone in the town is actively discussing/throwing around suspicions. I find his lack of posting very unsettling. Axero has two posts, one fluff/introductory post, and another that idly points suspicion: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#478 As I pointed out in the link above, his ideas are fairly illogical, and it reads to me like a useless-post designed only to point suspicion. FOS Hapa I've actually been pretty busy since the game started, but no I haven't made many posts. I'm sorting out my feelings on people and as this is my first game it's taking me some time to get used to it. However you are very quick to point to several people. The feeling I'm getting from you is that you're only being active to avoid suspicion. Seems like you're over doing it a little bit. Might be a snap reaction but it is how I feel at this point in the game. I want to remind you guys of Day 0.5 ! Remember when I was saying at the beginning that Hapahauli seemed suspicious to my eyes just because he was leading the game in the direction he wanted ? (with the policy, etc.) Well, he's doing exactly the same thing this time and Axero acts exactly as I did ! However, it wasn't long before I had no more suspicions on Hapa. Although, Axero haven't changed his mind since the beginning of the game. So, I feel like he would have good reasons in his head to vote for Hapahauli. Maybe Axero spotted that Hapa was leading and that he could be a threat ? (If Axero is mafia, he knows Hapa is town !) I don't know what you guys would think about that, but these are my thoughts ! Agreeing to point #4 : As you said, he never answered after his game of Dota. Perhaps it's just a null-tell, but with the 3 other points to back it up, I feel like there could be something wrong here. (Can't add much to this point) After all this talk, I decide to vote against Axero ##vote Axero | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rWH2_mqHnec/TdE3EerZ51I/AAAAAAAAAGg/liZ4zKrZoV8/s1600/I+know+that+feel+bro.png) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
##unvote Axero ##vote goodkarma | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
So, all on Goodkarma ! :D I'm not sure if it's a good idea since we have no content from him, but at the same time, it's better than a no-lynch =/ | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 07:50 Hapahauli wrote: Whatever the result may be, we probalby just got a SHIT TON of information out of the actions over the last hour. A shit ton of information you say ? A shit ton indeed ! Enough to show that I'm just bad and that I'll need coaching next time ! xD | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
Will we learn about his role ? | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
All my gratitude goes to people who believed me in the end of Day 1 ! :D | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 11 2012 08:28 fallof9lives wrote: I would be a first time forum player and i would love to get in if sign up is still available. Thanks You sir made me grin ! We're already at night 1, there's no way to sign up to this game xD I've read all the rules, I want to know what are we supposed to do during night time ? I know that power roles do their things, but what happen of vanilla town players ? Are we supposed to discuss ? (according to the rules we have to post at least once during night =/) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I'm thankful to every town players for your faith in me being bad ! :D Alright, now, I've looked at the list Hapahauli made of the possible town players. I agree with all the arguments given ! (From Hapa, Dandel Ion, YourHarry regarding the town reads) I took more time looking at Promethelax though since Hapa pointed out that he was suspicious ! Ok, let's assume Prome is mafia and let's look at his post where he points at 8 people at the same time ! (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=32#624) I made a list of ALL the players he thinks are suspicious (what a long and meticulous job ! )The list : Dandel Ion iamperfection Kronen Axero Lvdr Shady Sands YourHarry Sideni I do believe that in this list are only town players (only if Promethelax turns out to be mafia) My reasoning behind it is that he wouldn't try to give suspicions on his fellows this early on Day 1. (Note that he hasn't talk about GoodKarma !) So, if we have the townie reads on Hapahauli, Dandel Ion, Lvdr, iamperfection, Shady Sands, Axero (no shit ! ).We can cut the list as the following : YourHarry Kronen If Promethelax turns out to be mafia, I will have strong town reads upon YourHarry and Kronen ! As for now, the only players remaining out of the list of Prome are the following : Hapahauli Mkfuba07 GoodKarma As everybody other than Prome, I think that Hapahauli is a confirmed town player ! Which give us the remaining Mkfuba07 and GoodKarma (only one remaining). So, I would give some attention to Mkfuba and Promethelax during the remaining time of the night AND during Day 2! To add something about Promethelax being scum, here's a quote from his last HUGE post (where he was saying Hapahauli was suspicious) (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=45#899) On August 12 2012 02:59 Promethelax wrote: Well I'm shocked that lynched worked out for us, well done. I would not have joined in that late vote switch, it just seemed too crazy on too little evidence. He's talking about the possibility of coming back ! Weren't you at work by that time Prome as you said in an earlier post !? (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=37#737) Extremely strong scum read on Promethelax and suspicious of Mkfuba. Voting Prome right when Day 2 starts. ##FOS Promethelax ##FOS Mkfuba07 | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 12 2012 06:45 Sideni wrote: As for now, the only players remaining out of the list of Prome are the following : Hapahauli Mkfuba07 GoodKarma EBWOP : I meant to say : "As for now, the only players remaining in the game (when we cut off the town reads in the logic we're going through) are the following :" Instead of : "As for now, the only players remaining out of the list of Prome are the following :" Thanks and sorry ! :D | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I'd like to know your thoughts on the little case or the arguments I brought in that post ! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=46#918 Here's an EBWOP that was coming right after. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=46#919 | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I'll see you guys tomorrow. I'd still like to have some feedback on my "case" on promethelax and Mkfuba scumteam. Just your thoughts. Just to see if it's not a mistake from me to think what I'm thinking and to see if people agree. Hell, just because last case I made was bad (I know this one is more like 2-3 arguments) and now that I find something interesting, I want to know if it's worth something ! :D See you later and I seriously think that we will win this game ! :D | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
Leaving for work, couldn't read, but as I said in the post above, voting Promethelax right on Day 2. ##Vote Promethelax ##Vote 24-Hour Day | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I want your thoughts on that : - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=46#918 - (EBWOP) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=46#919 Do you think it would be valid if Promethelax turns red ? I honestly can't choose between Mkfuba and Shady Sands ... I feel like Shady Sands talks more, so can make more mistakes (even if he's town, it can be bad play. Remember me on Day 1, I had a rope around my neck ! xD) Regarding your case against him, I like it, but I'm not too sure of your point "Shady's early night 1 actions". On August 12 2012 10:57 Hapahauli wrote: + Show Spoiler + Shady's Early Night 1 Actions On August 11 2012 11:25 Shady Sands wrote: Note that I reconfirmed my vote on you even after people hit the 6 votes necessary to lynch GK. If I was really scum, why would I do that? This post just reeks of OMGUS. That being said, great job town on wagoning the bastard. I'll admit, I thought his posting was similar to his XXII meta (where he was town), so I didn't think he looked that scummy. In terms of confirmed townies, I'm going to say that Hapa is almost for sure confirmed now, since it's very unlikely scum would bus the GF on D1 (at most they would bus a goon.) By the same logic, the first guy to vote for GK, Lvdr, should also be cleared. Hapa, Lvdr, what are your top reads going into D2? Interesting right? He declare two obvious confirmed townies, then asks them a question about who their top reads are? Townies would have taken the opportunity to scumhunt here. ShadySands is "taking the temperature" of the situation - no one has a 2nd scumread, and he doesn't want to scumhunt. He wants to see what the town knows as opposed to scumhunting. On August 11 2012 13:38 Shady Sands wrote: I just read that encryption rules post from Prome. There are three possibilities, which are all plausible: 1) He's scum, trying to fake blue 2) If he hasn't rolled blue before, this could be a legitimate question (although putting it in the open thread is a little wierd) 3) He's a vet trying to bait a NK 1 and 3 are the likeliest--3 being most likely, ironically enough, because scum Prom in XXI was easily much smarter and more discreet with his posts. In this post, Shady Sands soft defends Promethelax despite having an FOS on him. Again, strange, mafia-oriented behavior. I think Shady Sands is bussing Promethelax, more on this later In the first part, you mention the fact that he's not scumhunting and is just trying to take the temperature. You forget that Shady Sands gives us 2 reads on confirmed townies and then, he proceeds to ask them. In a way, he could ask these specific players because he knows he won't hear bullshit from a possible scum. Note that I haven't been scumhunting that much either on Night 1... It's not a huge tell in my opinion, it's more a null tell. Other than looking at a connection between Promethelax and Mkfuba, I haven't done that much other than looking at what people had to say. In the second part, you're saying that he's soft defending Promethelax. I think that it's more based on gut feelings if you say that =/ If you look back at the quote you used, you can see that his first point is about Promethelax being scum. It's the first thing that poped in his mind. This, gives me the indication that he didn't think so long to write that down because it was just clear to him. @Mkfuba07 : I want you to tell me your role no matter what could happen after that. IF YOU DON'T TELL me or if you're hesitant, I'll consider you as a scum ! Why do I want your role ? Because you're the one, in my mind, that would be the partner of Promethelax on a scumteam. It can only be good for town, believe me ! I know it sounds funny ... (I'll reveal my strategy after Night 2) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
Sad that we can't get to the lynch right away ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I know it sounds funny ... (I'll reveal my strategy after Night 2) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
@Shady Sands' replacer - I have good reasons to think that you can be a scum. I want you to tell me your role ! IF YOU DON'T or if you hesitate, I'm going to assume that you're mafia. If you're town, there's no problem, it's just going to help town ! Believe me. Still going to reveal my strategy after Night 2. | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
He didn't get a sweet position xD | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 13 2012 08:36 YourHarry wrote: BTW, Sideni, do you mean you will talk about your strategy during Night 2? Or Beginning of Day 3? I'll decide what is better at the right time ! I don't want to give too much information to mafia. Wouldn't be nice to have a strategy that doesn't work since they know xD | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
By the way, my strategy consisted in either finding more Vanilla Townies, finding a confirmed townie that would have the same role OR (the most important of all) if he claims a power role and he survives the night, it means that he's mafia. However, since YourHarry claimed a power role, it doesn't work anymore ! Good night ! I guess I'll be there for the vote tomorrow, but if anything happens to me, my vote is already compilated ! :D (We have enough votes to lynch Promethelax already :D) | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
##Drink a good glass of milk ... | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
Guys, I think Shady Sands the 3rd mafia because he's not talking. If his replacer would have got a townie role, he would have already talked. It may be a strategy from mafia to not let him talk ... However, he has to vote before the night or he gets modkilled ! @Shady Sands' replacer - I want your role called before the night ! | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
I still don't know how cop works xD Day 1 was just so much pressure, I tried to change a bit from night 1 to night 2 ! It's kind of easier to play "correctly" when you're not being attacked from every sides ! I might play in an other game, but it won't be the next one since I now have work + school and I want to have a life (Still in progress of finding one ...) Overall, nice game guys ! :D | ||
|
Sideni
Canada79 Posts
On August 14 2012 16:35 Keirathi wrote: I really don't understand what you mean by that. Lets say, for instance, that Hapa told you he was cop. The mafia don't know that he's the cop, so they aren't necessarily going to kill him. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you? Well, that's why I didn't ask Hapa what role he was ! I asked non-confirmed townies. If mafia players only have 1 lead for a power role, they would try to kill it at night ! If this player doesn't die, it would mean that he's mafia :D | ||
| ||
