If I die tonight:
JingleHell, Alan, and aRyuujin are my scum reads. JingleHell first, Alan second, aRyuu third.
I am a firm believer that scum were piled on the Mordanis lynch up until I switched my vote to Zorkmid. Out of the Mordanis Five, Zork and Darth have already flipped scum. The remaining three are listed above.
I think that JingleHell is a likely scum, and that the move by JingleHell to quickly vote Darthpunk was a bussing gesture. The whole thing with Darth defending JingleHell but JingleHell accusing Darth out of the blue just seems really fishy to me. Especially from this post onwards:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=56#1102
Darth's defense of JingleHell, like Zork's medic "breadcrumb", are both suspciously bad. His townie read on JingleHell finally extends to a discussion about JH's stubbornness and even to his style of speaking on the tech boards, which is completely WIFOM and nearly useless. So basically we discount what Darth and JH posted.
So what about JH then? These are the main cases on him:
+ Show Spoiler [My case] +On August 04 2012 06:39 Shady Sands wrote:Okie dokie town. We've just had our first big lynch of the game. So congratulations. That being said, I think there's a pretty high chance I'll get shot tonight. So before I go, I'd like to at least have a few hours of discussion. My thesis: I have found the next scum. How? Look at these two posts: Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 03:05 Zorkmid wrote:I didn't want to have to do this just yet. I am a DoctorOn day one I saved Keir. Day 2 I attempted to save aRyuujin. I tried to breadcrumb this early on. On July 28 2012 01:14 Zorkmid wrote:
Activity seems woefully slow. I guess that most of you are on different clocks that I am. ##unvote
##vote MordanisI think we're going to lose. Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 03:49 Zorkmid wrote:
Activity seems woefully slow. I guess thAt Most of you Are on Different cloCks that I am. Zork did a fake doctor roleclaim. His first post at 2 PM seems like a decent roleclaiming post. People ask for clues, and then he dumps the shittiest clue ever. Why? When I first read it, I thought they were trying to bait the real doctor into claiming, but if they wanted to do that, the clue had to have been good and convincing to regular townies. But then look at the claim/breadcrumb above. Good? Convincing? No, it almost looked like those two Olympics badminton pairs that were both trying to lose so they could get a better quarterfinals draw. There's no way a claim, even a fake claim, would be this poorly executed. It's so bad that its goal, which is making the real doctor counter-claim him, simply isn't possible with such a bad claim. So clearly, something is wrong here. This claim, in terms of outing the doctor, doesn't make sense. Nobody would believe him. But Zork is scum--he had to have been doing something. It's so obviously false it was immediately shot down. There's almost no chance the real doctor will counter claim. So what's the purpose of this claim? Look at what happened in the thread three minutes after Zork made his "breadcrumb": Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 03:53 JingleHell wrote:
Yeah, this is weak as hell, Zork. Show me a real breadcrumb. Something specific, not some Da Vinci Code shit.
If that's a town play, it's a bad town play.
##Unvote
##Vote Zorkmid
If you can't show a real breadcrumb for the N1 save, this is just desperation. Golly, pretty fast, no? Put on your hats for a second: What if the point of the claim is to give cover for scum to switch their vote?Now let's entertain this theory for a moment, and go digging through Jinglehell's post history. He starts by targeting both me and Keir: Show nested quote +Of course, if I'm right about Shady, Keirathi will need to be under the microscope for attempts to head things off before they get into voting territory. Then what happens? Keir gets nightkilled. Then I claim and JH posts on Ange777: + Show Spoiler [Posts on Ange777] +On August 03 2012 01:18 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 16:57 Ange777 wrote:@JingleHell:On August 02 2012 06:41 JingleHell wrote:
Well, either SS is a VERY smart rolecop scum, (plausible, and this would be one sexy play if that was the case), or he's a mason. For now, I think, I'll give BOTD instead of WIFOMing to death, and move on to something I've been interested in for a while now, but refrained from comment on. There is no rolecop scum in this setup. Please check the OP about the setup. Mr Ange777, I note that you at one point wanted me to dive through the thread, and post reads on as many people as I could. On August 02 2012 03:36 Ange777 wrote:On August 02 2012 03:28 JingleHell wrote:On August 02 2012 03:22 Ange777 wrote:
I have been rereading the entire day 2 conversation in light of Promethelax' alignment and will be posting soon. Your filter is unfortunately the biggest null read at the moment so how about you state your other suspicions? Or are you only suspicious of Shady at the moment? Well, ignoring the fact that I still haven't finished reading all of the thread yet, I personally prefer not to branch out too much at a time. I'd rather get answers to one set of suspicions than dilute the thread with 20 different tangential arguments. Accusing me of being a null read is sort of reasonable, of course, but frankly, all I can do now is either try to make a case on every single person, which would provide some content but look fishy, or wait for enough discussion to happen for people to get a read on me. I have absolutely no idea why anybody with a pro-town mentality would want me to spam a huge pile of clutter trying to make sense out of 600-700 posts simultaneously. At best, trying to make reads on everyone still alive based on discussions I wasn't in for would amount to a lot of WIFOM. I get the not having finished reading all of the thread part. And while I understand that it takes a while to get into a game at the start of night 2, I still believe that you can make good reads on the other players because you haven't been here for the discussion. It makes you unbiased. And looking back at the conversation after a mislynch only considering the flip and not your own judgement may be a plus point for you. Unfortunately, shortly after that point, you suddenly were perfectly happy to jump onto the real Sand Shady. On August 02 2012 04:13 Ange777 wrote:
Okay, so one player I am unhappy with at the moment is Shady and his last minute cases before the deadline.
The only motive I can see for this is to set up a fall guy, namely myself, for the death of one Shady Sands, by encouraging me down that track. I was already wondering if this was a possibility before the flip and claim, and now... well, you don't look so hot to me. Can you please explain a rational and plausible townie motive for this? Are you serious Jingle? This is ridiculous. You clearly stated that you did not want to make any rushed reads as you have not finished reading the thread and then you do exactly what you said you would not do. I had my suspicions about Shady early in day 1 which where never cleared until his now believable mason claim. I was in no way encouraging you instead I was giving my own read before deadline. Assuming that this has a scum motivation is just a huge huge stretch. And just to be clear, I never once said that you should post reads on as many people as you could. I asked if you had any other scum reads or whether Shady was your only scum read as you only commented on him since you subbed in. Now that you are accusing me of setting up a mislynch I should be able to assume that you have indeed finished reading the thread. So how about you give us your other scum reads? Seeing as quite a lot of people seemed quite excited for you to join this game I had hoped you would contribute more. At this moment, I don't see any pro town behaviour at all. This isn't a defense. You aren't showing me a town motive. You're dismissing a question. That's not a quick read. That's called discussing things and looking for potential slips. It's how I work. Don't like it? Too bad. Frankly, it looks like you're trying to push me into playing differently because you don't like what I said, with an implicit threat to try and get me lynched if I don't do what you want. It's shady as all hell. ##Vote Ange777Now, if you want to have any hope of my vote changing, you'll explain a town motive for your play regarding myself and Shady, rather than trying to turn things back on me, which is scum behavior. Funny how all of a sudden you don't like the unbiased outsider when he sees something you said as funny. On August 03 2012 03:35 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 03:02 Ange777 wrote:On August 03 2012 01:18 JingleHell wrote:On August 02 2012 16:57 Ange777 wrote:@JingleHell:On August 02 2012 06:41 JingleHell wrote:
Well, either SS is a VERY smart rolecop scum, (plausible, and this would be one sexy play if that was the case), or he's a mason. For now, I think, I'll give BOTD instead of WIFOMing to death, and move on to something I've been interested in for a while now, but refrained from comment on. There is no rolecop scum in this setup. Please check the OP about the setup. Mr Ange777, I note that you at one point wanted me to dive through the thread, and post reads on as many people as I could. On August 02 2012 03:36 Ange777 wrote:On August 02 2012 03:28 JingleHell wrote:On August 02 2012 03:22 Ange777 wrote:
I have been rereading the entire day 2 conversation in light of Promethelax' alignment and will be posting soon. Your filter is unfortunately the biggest null read at the moment so how about you state your other suspicions? Or are you only suspicious of Shady at the moment? Well, ignoring the fact that I still haven't finished reading all of the thread yet, I personally prefer not to branch out too much at a time. I'd rather get answers to one set of suspicions than dilute the thread with 20 different tangential arguments. Accusing me of being a null read is sort of reasonable, of course, but frankly, all I can do now is either try to make a case on every single person, which would provide some content but look fishy, or wait for enough discussion to happen for people to get a read on me. I have absolutely no idea why anybody with a pro-town mentality would want me to spam a huge pile of clutter trying to make sense out of 600-700 posts simultaneously. At best, trying to make reads on everyone still alive based on discussions I wasn't in for would amount to a lot of WIFOM. I get the not having finished reading all of the thread part. And while I understand that it takes a while to get into a game at the start of night 2, I still believe that you can make good reads on the other players because you haven't been here for the discussion. It makes you unbiased. And looking back at the conversation after a mislynch only considering the flip and not your own judgement may be a plus point for you. Unfortunately, shortly after that point, you suddenly were perfectly happy to jump onto the real Sand Shady. On August 02 2012 04:13 Ange777 wrote:
Okay, so one player I am unhappy with at the moment is Shady and his last minute cases before the deadline.
The only motive I can see for this is to set up a fall guy, namely myself, for the death of one Shady Sands, by encouraging me down that track. I was already wondering if this was a possibility before the flip and claim, and now... well, you don't look so hot to me. Can you please explain a rational and plausible townie motive for this? Are you serious Jingle? This is ridiculous. You clearly stated that you did not want to make any rushed reads as you have not finished reading the thread and then you do exactly what you said you would not do. I had my suspicions about Shady early in day 1 which where never cleared until his now believable mason claim. I was in no way encouraging you instead I was giving my own read before deadline. Assuming that this has a scum motivation is just a huge huge stretch. And just to be clear, I never once said that you should post reads on as many people as you could. I asked if you had any other scum reads or whether Shady was your only scum read as you only commented on him since you subbed in. Now that you are accusing me of setting up a mislynch I should be able to assume that you have indeed finished reading the thread. So how about you give us your other scum reads? Seeing as quite a lot of people seemed quite excited for you to join this game I had hoped you would contribute more. At this moment, I don't see any pro town behaviour at all. This isn't a defense. You aren't showing me a town motive. You're dismissing a question. That's not a quick read. That's called discussing things and looking for potential slips. It's how I work. Don't like it? Too bad. Frankly, it looks like you're trying to push me into playing differently because you don't like what I said, with an implicit threat to try and get me lynched if I don't do what you want. It's shady as all hell. ##Vote Ange777Now, if you want to have any hope of my vote changing, you'll explain a town motive for your play regarding myself and Shady, rather than trying to turn things back on me, which is scum behavior. Funny how all of a sudden you don't like the unbiased outsider when he sees something you said as funny. This case against me is simply bad. I'll start from the beginning: You are asking me for a town motivation for asking about your scum reads? Since when is it scummy to pressure others for their reads especially when that player has not taken any stance at all in the game? I have been completely open with whoever I thought was suspicious and posted cases or questions regarding those players. You just subbed in. We don't know anything about your alignment. Of course it is in the interest of town to get an understanding for whom you believe is suspicious. You saw my explanation: Because you were not involved in previous discussion, you were unbiased and therefore perfectly able to judge what we had posted. Keir agreed with me in this point as well. Then you accuse me of setting you up for a mislynch. You seem to have a brilliant imagination for I can't make up my mind why you would think that. I have stated my suspicions about Shady several times. Giving one's read before the night ends is perfectly normal as I could have died that night and I wanted to make sure that everyone knows whom I believe is suspicious. If I had indeed been trying to set you up in a mislynch because of your suspicions regarding Shady, shouldn't I have taken a step back from my own case against Shady so that I could accuse you? So it seems that your explanation for not giving any further comments on players is that you have a different playstyle. One that includes discussion and potential scumslips. Fine, but then show it to me! Oh no wait ... seems like in your entire post you skipped the discussion about Zorkmid and his scumslip! Instead you build up a huge case against me based on what? Literally nothing. Can the Jingle, who was hyped when joining the game as the savior, really be this bad? No, I don't think so. I believe you saw your scum buddy Zork in trouble and went out to discredit my case and me.
Now, if you want to have any hope of my vote changing, you'll explain a town motive for your play regarding myself and Shady, rather than trying to turn things back on me, which is scum behavior.
So "turning things back on you" would be scummy. Cute. Because somehow YOU turned things back on to me. And to be clear, right now I am not pushing you for playing in a different way than me! I am pushing your case for playing the most obvious scum play I have ever seen. Dear you: You're either trying to get me to answer for the terrible play of the guy I replaced, or asking me to do things I've already explained why I don't want to do. When I ask you what your motive is for something, you both OMGUS me and try to make it sound like I'm the one dropping an OMGUS. Yes, I find that scummy. Start defending yourself. Attacking me does not qualify as a defense. But his accusations on Ange don't get traction, then posts a one liner to justify his vote on GK: Show nested quote +You seem awfully convinced that certain people are scum based on flips that haven't happened, and that's kind of an obvious slip. Then flips to vote Mordanis to "counter Ange and GK." So basically no good reason to vote for Mord. This is where things get a little interesting, because around this time, he makes this post: Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 00:52 JingleHell wrote:On August 04 2012 00:46 Obvious.660 wrote:
Hey Jingle, if I may have a moment of your time. I'm about to head out the door for the rest of the day but I wanted to ask you about something. Based on our last game together, you played a fairy suspicious-of-all town and weren't abashed of moving on to better targets as they sprung up. My question to you is this: do you not find it more suspicious than the situation you are looking at with Ange that Zorkmid has come under fire recently and the town is suddenly super active? This Mord case seems like a direct counter-wagon to Zork, the kind that appears when scum is close to getting lynched. Given that Mord has been under vague suspicions since the beginning of the game, don't you think it's fair that you take a good shake at voicing at least your own opinion on the case I and others have been making against Zork? Ange may be suspicious and all but you can see for yourself that there are bigger fish to deal with today. I'm leaving for about 13 hours right after this post it's just something that occurred to me overnight trying to fall asleep. I think that in a game going this well for scum, a direct counter wagon would be incredibly stupid, throwing someone under the bus would be better. At the very least, I think the scum votes are probably split, unless they're completely ignoring their coach, because their coach would be telling them not to risk guilt by association on the entire team when they're doing this well with so many sheep in town.Long story short, it's possible, but I personally find it unlikely due to the incredible level of risk involved, and wouldn't be terribly surprised if both are actually town. First off, there's no need to talk about what scum might or might not be doing in the main thread--that gives scum chances to improve their behavior. Second, he's basically saying that scum are probably split between Mord and Zork, except him and Zork both piled on Mordanis. Unless JingleHell somehow knew that Zork would flip red, why would he make this post? This is almost a defense post from JingleHell, in defense of a red flip (Zorkmid) that hasn't happened yet. Then of course you get that little charade with Zorkmid's fakeclaim and Mordanis immediately calling him out on it. JingleHell feels so eager to make fun of Zork that he ridicules it 3 times in a row: Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 04:06 JingleHell wrote:
Well, it could be an anagram for a word in a different language, then if we apply some advanced numerology, eat some peyote, and go on a vision quest, we can discern that his "breadcrumb" actually doesn't mean a damn thing. Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 04:11 JingleHell wrote:On August 04 2012 04:10 alan133 wrote:It did not make much sense... Let me fix that for you. ActIvity seeMs woefully slow. I guess that Most of you Are on diFferent clocks that I Am. Done. ##Unvote: Mordanis
##Vote: Zorkmid Lol. That one does, sadly, make more sense. And illustrates the hilarity. Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 04:16 JingleHell wrote:
So much for my tactic of assuming that the guy who sounds like he's smoking some good shit is actually town. But I can't imagine a good townie reason to fakeclaim.
Although it is an excellent way to insult the IQ of the entire town? From a town perspective, there's no need to gloat about the fakeclaim at all to justify a vote switch. There's no need to guess about what the scum might or might not be doing in the main thread. There's also no reason to say scum is split or not split when you are voting on the same side that scum is, before you even find out they're scum. There's no reason at all to do any of this... except if you are scum. This was the first scum mistake, town. Treasure it. And if I die tonight, don't let this opportunity go to waste. ##Vote JingleHell
+ Show Spoiler [Alan's case] +On August 04 2012 17:15 alan133 wrote:Just woke up, good job getting scum! @JingleWhy did I not vote for ZorkBecause Mordanis has not answered my case against him, and I don't think it is entirely OMGUS and has some valid point in it. Disagree if you want, but at that moment I think Mordanis is than Zork. Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:41 JingleHell wrote:
Also, look through Zorkmid's filter. If you'll notice, there's one person who swapped even later than I did, who even I suspect, who Zorkmid NEVER seemed to be interested in, despite this player being in the game the whole time. That's Alan. Zork was never really interested in anyone except for maybe GoodKarma, if I was not wrong? Zork's "breadcrumb". Judging from the content of the breadcrumb and the location of the post he quoted for the breadcrumb, it is obvious to me this is a scum trying to take down a blue with him. If you noticed that was my first post, and it was fairly early in the game with little scum hunting going on. I said him starting the scum hunting is a huge townie trait for him, suggest it could be WIFOMed into saying it has scum motivation, but I did not use them in my argument. I defended Golbat and push for Shady lynch. I believe Shady is scum while Golbat is playing badly as a newbie town, so I am pushing for a Shady lynch. The "creating distance" is another fantasy of yours. I thought Zork's angry reaction was a town trait. I made my stance on him based on that. Show nested quote +Kisses up a little, and references a game where out of several cases made, I only had a 50% scum lynch record. Link I was following that game because I missed it, and my impression was you caught the first scum. Scum was in a fairly strong position right now and I was hoping you to tip the balance. I don't think this is entirely OMGUS. My case on him was not based on my own speculation or fantasies. It is based on reading his filter in general, and the small things that I picked up along the way. How about stating a townie motivation for:
+ Show Spoiler [Ange's case on Jingle] +On August 03 2012 03:02 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 01:18 JingleHell wrote:On August 02 2012 16:57 Ange777 wrote:@JingleHell:On August 02 2012 06:41 JingleHell wrote:
Well, either SS is a VERY smart rolecop scum, (plausible, and this would be one sexy play if that was the case), or he's a mason. For now, I think, I'll give BOTD instead of WIFOMing to death, and move on to something I've been interested in for a while now, but refrained from comment on. There is no rolecop scum in this setup. Please check the OP about the setup. Mr Ange777, I note that you at one point wanted me to dive through the thread, and post reads on as many people as I could. On August 02 2012 03:36 Ange777 wrote:On August 02 2012 03:28 JingleHell wrote:On August 02 2012 03:22 Ange777 wrote:
I have been rereading the entire day 2 conversation in light of Promethelax' alignment and will be posting soon. Your filter is unfortunately the biggest null read at the moment so how about you state your other suspicions? Or are you only suspicious of Shady at the moment? Well, ignoring the fact that I still haven't finished reading all of the thread yet, I personally prefer not to branch out too much at a time. I'd rather get answers to one set of suspicions than dilute the thread with 20 different tangential arguments. Accusing me of being a null read is sort of reasonable, of course, but frankly, all I can do now is either try to make a case on every single person, which would provide some content but look fishy, or wait for enough discussion to happen for people to get a read on me. I have absolutely no idea why anybody with a pro-town mentality would want me to spam a huge pile of clutter trying to make sense out of 600-700 posts simultaneously. At best, trying to make reads on everyone still alive based on discussions I wasn't in for would amount to a lot of WIFOM. I get the not having finished reading all of the thread part. And while I understand that it takes a while to get into a game at the start of night 2, I still believe that you can make good reads on the other players because you haven't been here for the discussion. It makes you unbiased. And looking back at the conversation after a mislynch only considering the flip and not your own judgement may be a plus point for you. Unfortunately, shortly after that point, you suddenly were perfectly happy to jump onto the real Sand Shady. On August 02 2012 04:13 Ange777 wrote:
Okay, so one player I am unhappy with at the moment is Shady and his last minute cases before the deadline.
The only motive I can see for this is to set up a fall guy, namely myself, for the death of one Shady Sands, by encouraging me down that track. I was already wondering if this was a possibility before the flip and claim, and now... well, you don't look so hot to me. Can you please explain a rational and plausible townie motive for this? Are you serious Jingle? This is ridiculous. You clearly stated that you did not want to make any rushed reads as you have not finished reading the thread and then you do exactly what you said you would not do. I had my suspicions about Shady early in day 1 which where never cleared until his now believable mason claim. I was in no way encouraging you instead I was giving my own read before deadline. Assuming that this has a scum motivation is just a huge huge stretch. And just to be clear, I never once said that you should post reads on as many people as you could. I asked if you had any other scum reads or whether Shady was your only scum read as you only commented on him since you subbed in. Now that you are accusing me of setting up a mislynch I should be able to assume that you have indeed finished reading the thread. So how about you give us your other scum reads? Seeing as quite a lot of people seemed quite excited for you to join this game I had hoped you would contribute more. At this moment, I don't see any pro town behaviour at all. This isn't a defense. You aren't showing me a town motive. You're dismissing a question. That's not a quick read. That's called discussing things and looking for potential slips. It's how I work. Don't like it? Too bad. Frankly, it looks like you're trying to push me into playing differently because you don't like what I said, with an implicit threat to try and get me lynched if I don't do what you want. It's shady as all hell. ##Vote Ange777Now, if you want to have any hope of my vote changing, you'll explain a town motive for your play regarding myself and Shady, rather than trying to turn things back on me, which is scum behavior. Funny how all of a sudden you don't like the unbiased outsider when he sees something you said as funny. This case against me is simply bad. I'll start from the beginning: You are asking me for a town motivation for asking about your scum reads? Since when is it scummy to pressure others for their reads especially when that player has not taken any stance at all in the game? I have been completely open with whoever I thought was suspicious and posted cases or questions regarding those players. You just subbed in. We don't know anything about your alignment. Of course it is in the interest of town to get an understanding for whom you believe is suspicious. You saw my explanation: Because you were not involved in previous discussion, you were unbiased and therefore perfectly able to judge what we had posted. Keir agreed with me in this point as well. Then you accuse me of setting you up for a mislynch. You seem to have a brilliant imagination for I can't make up my mind why you would think that. I have stated my suspicions about Shady several times. Giving one's read before the night ends is perfectly normal as I could have died that night and I wanted to make sure that everyone knows whom I believe is suspicious. If I had indeed been trying to set you up in a mislynch because of your suspicions regarding Shady, shouldn't I have taken a step back from my own case against Shady so that I could accuse you? So it seems that your explanation for not giving any further comments on players is that you have a different playstyle. One that includes discussion and potential scumslips. Fine, but then show it to me! Oh no wait ... seems like in your entire post you skipped the discussion about Zorkmid and his scumslip! Instead you build up a huge case against me based on what? Literally nothing. Can the Jingle, who was hyped when joining the game as the savior, really be this bad? No, I don't think so. I believe you saw your scum buddy Zork in trouble and went out to discredit my case and me. Show nested quote +
Now, if you want to have any hope of my vote changing, you'll explain a town motive for your play regarding myself and Shady, rather than trying to turn things back on me, which is scum behavior.
So "turning things back on you" would be scummy. Cute. Because somehow YOU turned things back on to me. And to be clear, right now I am not pushing you for playing in a different way than me! I am pushing your case for playing the most obvious scum play I have ever seen.
JH's defense of his posts pretty much only extends to accusing the town of WIFOM and confirmation bias. While you could argue that after the Zork fakeclaim, there's nothing JH could have done that wouldn't have looked guilty, this point from me still remains:
Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 00:52 JingleHell wrote:On August 04 2012 00:46 Obvious.660 wrote:
Hey Jingle, if I may have a moment of your time. I'm about to head out the door for the rest of the day but I wanted to ask you about something. Based on our last game together, you played a fairy suspicious-of-all town and weren't abashed of moving on to better targets as they sprung up. My question to you is this: do you not find it more suspicious than the situation you are looking at with Ange that Zorkmid has come under fire recently and the town is suddenly super active? This Mord case seems like a direct counter-wagon to Zork, the kind that appears when scum is close to getting lynched. Given that Mord has been under vague suspicions since the beginning of the game, don't you think it's fair that you take a good shake at voicing at least your own opinion on the case I and others have been making against Zork? Ange may be suspicious and all but you can see for yourself that there are bigger fish to deal with today. I'm leaving for about 13 hours right after this post it's just something that occurred to me overnight trying to fall asleep. I think that in a game going this well for scum, a direct counter wagon would be incredibly stupid, throwing someone under the bus would be better. At the very least, I think the scum votes are probably split, unless they're completely ignoring their coach, because their coach would be telling them not to risk guilt by association on the entire team when they're doing this well with so many sheep in town.Long story short, it's possible, but I personally find it unlikely due to the incredible level of risk involved, and wouldn't be terribly surprised if both are actually town. First off, there's no need to talk about what scum might or might not be doing in the main thread--that gives scum chances to improve their behavior. Second, he's basically saying that scum are probably split between Mord and Zork, except him and Zork both piled on Mordanis. Unless JingleHell somehow knew that Zork would flip red, why would he make this post? This is almost a defense post from JingleHell, in defense of a red flip (Zorkmid) that hasn't happened yet.
Why would JingleHell argue that scum would be throwing someone under the bus, and keep arguing that scum votes are probably split, when Zork and Darth had already piled onto the Mord train? How would he have known to distance himself the other Mord voters before they ended up flipping red? It makes no sense unless you read it as a defense-in-advance of a scum flip that hasn't happened yet. And JingleHell has not answered this point in the past 72 hours in spite of making tons of posts accusing the entire town of WIFOM and "confirmation bias".
Onto Alan/aRyuu
Between these two, I'm fairly certain Alan is not green. However, this doesn't mean Alan is scum--rather, I think he's the medic. My read on him the whole game has been someone who is more interested in finding out confirmed townies than finding out confirmed scum, while quasi-lurking and making very circumspect posts. This sort of behavior only makes sense if he's the medic, or the scum roleblocker. Basically, if Alan doesn't roleclaim medic, I'd suggest lynching him after lynching JingleHell.
aRyuujin also fits the medic profile, quasi-lurking and trying to stay under the radar, but overall maintaining a very pro-town posting streak. But his recent posting on Darth is a bit more... reckless than I'd expect from a scum trying to dot all their i's and cross all their t's, so to speak.
And finally, discount the whole scum RB discussion on JingleHell--that was just a ploy from me to get the scum RB to not RB anyone tonight, in the off chance that JingleHell was innocent and scum RB would think to try and make him look guilty when no one came forward with an RB claim.
If I'm dead, good luck town, and it was nice playing with all of you. Please follow Ange777, she's the closest thing to confirmed town this town has.
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