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On August 04 2012 07:07 Shady Sands wrote:
So returning to the theory that scum were bandwagoned together on Mord lynch, that leaves aRyuujin and alan133 as the other possible suspects.
When I get some more time tonight (after dinner), I'll be looking through their posting histories as well.
We got this, town--two more to go.
Ok, so here are my reads on aRyuujin and alan133. I think both are scummy, but still within the "reasonable doubt" category. Can't call for a lynch on them yet.
aRyuujin is lurky.
His post count is less than half of Keir's, even though Keir got nightkilled over 48 hours ago. But we can't go off post counts alone. His few "content" posts have been tight, logical, but mostly rehash of what other people have already posted.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 02 2012 11:24 aRyuujin wrote:I'm suspicious of Mordanis now, mainly because of the sudden shift in his play. Initially, he's really into scum hunting. He's a somewhat controversial figure, but people seem to believe he's a town player, begins he's quite active in scumhunting. However, as soon as day 2 begins, he suddenly begins to quiet down. Even more important than the lack of posts is the sudden change in the posts themselves: Initially: Show nested quote + He even tries to end the discussion by agreeing that the case on me is open and shut. Vague Pro-town comments + early excuse + bandwagon-ing + anti-discussion = quadruple scummy. So for right now at least: ##Vote: Golbat . Quotes like this show how he behaves decisively, voting on the spot. Now, let's look at his recent behavior: His discussion about prome: Show nested quote +I'm really confused by Promethelax's play. He just admonished me for fluff posts. His entire first page of his filter is fluff. He comments on my opening case being really bad, regardless of my alignment. Look at his first FOS: Here, he's behaving in a way that contrasts greatly with his previous actions. He no longer is the decisive scum hunter. Now, he's merely confused. Show nested quote +I do not understand Promethelax's play. It has been at times hypocritical, illogical, and bad. I see very little scum motivation for the way he's been playing, assuming he's a competent player. I don't see any town motivation either, so I would prefer to wait to see if he continues to play the way he has. ... I actually feel bad voting for him at this point, but he is my strongest read. This continues on to here, where he votes. Once more, however, he's markedly different from the active townie persona he portrayed earlier. Also important to note is the change in activity. Previously, he was one of the most active contributors. Now, he's slid down the scale quite a bit (content wise, he still has more fluff posts). However, this reasoning isn't nearly as solid, because he might just be more busy. Coupled with the change in behavior, however, I'm led to believe that ... Mordanis has changed because he wants to avoid scum slips. This happens a lot, where a very 'loud' player all of a sudden quiets down or changes suddenly. And it's oftentimes because they want to avoid a scum slip. Therefore, I'm ##FoS Mordanis. On July 28 2012 14:28 aRyuujin wrote:ebwop wow, in between my composing that post and posting it, Golbat has pitched in. I'm now somewhat worried that a bandwagon will form regarding me, as I won't have time to post in the morning, and may be busy probably past the deadline. Therefore, I will now sort of address Golbat's reasons for voting me: He says (referring to me): Show nested quote +This is why I am voting for him: His haiku style makes it easy for him to fill up his posts with a shit load of waffle and some nearly baseless accusations and almost get away with it. I hope in between now and deadline the eye of suspicion takes a long, hard look at him, because his confusing waffle is nothing short of a full-on impediment to real discussion.
Note that I've stopped posting in haikus, so that shouldn't be a reason to vote me anymore. More seriously, this is one of the reasons I stopped posting in haikus- I was having trouble conveying my points clearly. Golbat goes on to say, Show nested quote +Here he says that he is either scum or "really bad town" what is the point of that? And he also casts suspicion on MrMedic for having a really confusing post where he doesn't say anything important (essentially what he is doing, but instead of saying a whole lot of nothing, he does it in haiku form). I don't think MrMedic is mafia, I just think he's having a hard time understanding how to contribute useful ideas. Throwing mafia suspicion on someone who I really think is just unsure of what to do is pretty scummy in my opinion. Basically, he decides to defend mrmedic randomly, despite even saying he's basically a lurker. (Note that goodkarma's primary reason for why i'm scum is that I'm a lurker). I'm not really sure why he believes this part of the post shows that I'm scum. Next, our good friend the pokemon says, Show nested quote +"Here you recap my mistakes without saying anything new about it. The only new content you bring to the table is that you're putting you FoS on me for being flip-floppy. Your reasoning is really weak. For example, what do you mean by this?+ Show Spoiler + How can you accuse me of being scum because of flip flopping, and then say "I plan to vote you but that could easily change depending on the thread"? That's an inconsistency if I've ever seen one.
He says my reasoning is weak, and provides one example, that I say I might not vote for him. I FoS'd him, but I'm not gonna vote that early, no intelligent player would. Later on, he does the same exact thing that he says is so bad, Show nested quote + "I would also consider voting for Shady Sands, depending on the consensus of the town for these reasons ...Right now these two seem to me to be the most scummy. Of course, if someone else decides to act scummy as all get out, i'd be happy to vote for them as well . Noting that your vote is not set in stone is NOT a reliable scum tell. Finally, he agrees with me. w00t. Really, the whole case on me seems kind of silly. Because earlier, when people did not provide their posting schedule, it annoyed some guys, I'll reinforce the fact that I will 90% not even look at the thread before 5-6 my time, 1-2 hours after the adjusted schedule tomorrow. (Super busy day) glhf town On July 28 2012 14:02 aRyuujin wrote:Last post for the night @Keir: yeah, I'll stop haikus lol @goodkarma: You're still the only one who believes I'm scum, and you're definitely entitled to your opinion. However, it seems like you made up your mind that I'm scum before you found any legit evidence, just to show that you contribute, and are just cherry picking random junk to back you up. You say, Show nested quote +"One final point I'd like to mention is this makes yet another person that's come at me after voting for aRyuujin." However, darthpunk isn't coming after you, he's pointing out that you're not contributing. When you say It seems as if you're accusing Keirathi and DP as Mafia as well. (they're bailing me out?) Now, let's think about this for a minute. If you lynched me, and I flipped red, the obvious step would be to lynch them. What kind of real mafia would defend scum with such little lynch threat? Though you say that If you lynched me, and I flipped green, then town is no better off than before. This whole tangent does NOT show that Darthpunk or Keir are red OR green, and any reasoning you try to do based on my green flip (assuming there's nothing insane posted) is pretty much WIFOM. @Darthpunk: I'm hesitant to take suspicion off of golbat, mainly because claiming inexperience is a HUGE scum trait. He has spent a tremendous amount of time doing 2 things: a)Changing his mind b)talking about his noobiness Those are two big scum tells because the first makes it look like he contributes without actually contributing (i tried to mention it earlier, but haikus are difficult to convey thoughts through), and the second helps play away scum tells. (Oh, that (referencing scum moves) doesn't help? I thought it did... etc.) @Mordanis: I probably jumped on your Shady bandwagon too soon. If someone lies at this point, though, and we can prove it, I definitely believe they are target number 1. I doubt I'll be posting in time again for the deadline, therefore it's important that I vote here: I'm voting Golbat because of the 2 reasons I mention previously: He spends most of his time changing his mind/talking about how noob he is. ##vote Golbat
Ever since the Golbat lynch aRyu has only made one real post of content. Of course, he was lurky on D1 too, so lurking D2 doesn't tell us much. However, this is exactly how Zorkmid played. Overall, though, I can't mark him for a lynch yet. And with JingleHell in the bag, there's no real hurry to.
Moving on to Alan133. He's written a lot (over 10 long posts), so I'm not going to spoiler and copy/paste all of it. Here's the filter if anyone's interested. The general vibe I get is that he isn't scum, but rather someone who prefers to build up clues rather than point fingers quickly at someone, which is something that I think this town needs a little bit more of (especially after two mislynches.) Also, he at least is digging up a lot of clues. Even if he's being slightly WIFOM-y, he's still more valuable than aRyu, and a much less scummy read than JingleHell.
aRyuujin leans red. Alan133 leans green.
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EBWOP: I just realized my first sentence there didn't make sense.
I think both are scummy, but still within the "reasonable doubt" category. Can't call for a lynch on them yet.
This should read:
I think aRyuu is scummy, but still within the "reasonable doubt" category. Can't call for a lynch on him yet. Leaning town on Alan133.
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On August 04 2012 07:09 JingleHell wrote:
If you think that statement is suspicious, I can't help you much. It's merely conventional wisdom. If scum is doing strong overall, having the entire scumteam piled up to try and save someone is a bad idea.
Actually, it is a good idea if the scum can force a no-lynch and town is being WIFOM-y. The latter point, unfortunately, is true. With the former point, I think the Mordanis hit squad was pretty close to forcing a no-lynch at one point, and you yourself even tried to vote for two fairly weak leads (GK and Mordanis) to "counter" the votes of players you thought scummy.
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On August 04 2012 17:15 alan133 wrote:Just woke up, good job getting scum! @JingleWhy did I not vote for ZorkBecause Mordanis has not answered my case against him, and I don't think it is entirely OMGUS and has some valid point in it. Disagree if you want, but at that moment I think Mordanis is than Zork. + Show Spoiler [Alan133] +On August 04 2012 07:41 JingleHell wrote:
Also, look through Zorkmid's filter. If you'll notice, there's one person who swapped even later than I did, who even I suspect, who Zorkmid NEVER seemed to be interested in, despite this player being in the game the whole time. That's Alan. Zork was never really interested in anyone except for maybe GoodKarma, if I was not wrong? Zork's "breadcrumb". Judging from the content of the breadcrumb and the location of the post he quoted for the breadcrumb, it is obvious to me this is a scum trying to take down a blue with him. Alan starts by wanting to discuss tons of policy. LinkIf you noticed that was my first post, and it was fairly early in the game with little scum hunting going on. Huge WIFOM, no commitment. LinkI said him starting the scum hunting is a huge townie trait for him, suggest it could be WIFOMed into saying it has scum motivation, but I did not use them in my argument. Wishy Washy on Golbat, creates distance from a mislynch. LinkI defended Golbat and push for Shady lynch. I believe Shady is scum while Golbat is playing badly as a newbie town, so I am pushing for a Shady lynch. The "creating distance" is another fantasy of yours. Defends Zork lightly. LinkI thought Zork's angry reaction was a town trait. I made my stance on him based on that. Kisses up a little, and references a game where out of several cases made, I only had a 50% scum lynch record. LinkI was following that game because I missed it, and my impression was you caught the first scum. Scum was in a fairly strong position right now and I was hoping you to tip the balance. I don't think this is entirely OMGUS. My case on him was not based on my own speculation or fantasies. It is based on reading his filter in general, and the small things that I picked up along the way. How about stating a townie motivation for:
1) Good reads on JingleHell. I missed the attempts to save Zork, although in Jingle's defense some people did it too. I'd look at MrMedic's posts/lurky play from D1 as well. Would like to Jingle try and defend that.
2) Why is JingleHell accusing you? His post makes no overall sense. All he did is list a bunch of your old posts with 3 word indicators of scummy play. The thing is, he could draw that sort of conclusion about anyone--including Ange, his previous target (and someone who is pretty much confirmed town at this point.) He gives no holistic reasoning as to why he dropped Ange, either.
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On August 04 2012 19:36 Mordanis wrote:
GOGOGOGOGO Town!!
@SS
Before I begin, I want to question how you can praise Ange (when she even took inspiration from GK, so if you're looking for the first suspicion D3 against Zork, its GK) for her case + call her confirmed townie and condemn me for "leading a hit squad that almost forced a no-lynch"? You're making me sad TT... Also, the fact that so many people are convinced that scum wouldn't bus one of their one at this point means that it was probably the best play for them, regardless of what really happened. I'm not willing to dismiss any sort of bussing yet.
The phrase "Mordanis hit squad" referred to the hit squad that was targetted at you.
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JingleHell is even more guilty. Here's why.
1) Scum need to look like they're trying to catch scum.
On August 04 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote:
You are, in fact, aware it's night, yes shady? If you actually think that's what happened, feel free to lead a mislynch on me and feel like an idiot for discounting what I just contributed against GK and alan. I was asked to replace in, for some unknown reason, and frankly I think Marv would have done better to mercymod-kill, given the sheeping levels in this game.
A town like this losing faster would be a huge improvement over subjecting a replacement to it.
2) Scum make up excuses to claim that they found someone suspicious. These excuses can be found using common sense.
+ Show Spoiler [JH's "case" on Alan] +On August 04 2012 06:07 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 23:35 alan133 wrote:
@Zorkmid
What the heck is your game? Where the fuck did you go? Why did you go out and posted that "SCUM SLIP"? Why are you making such a big deal about a stupid relief post? Why do reading your filter makes me want to vote for you so bloody much?
Why did you sheep? Why were your cases a rehash of everyone else's case? Where is your own reads? You and all the lurkers are all hurting town, or is being INCREDIBLY LAZY SCUMS.
This came 5 hours before your vote. I voted late too, but I wasn't sold until the pathetic fakeclaim. You wanted to vote for him so bloody much but waited 5 hours anyway. On August 04 2012 07:41 JingleHell wrote:Also, look through Zorkmid's filter. If you'll notice, there's one person who swapped even later than I did, who even I suspect, who Zorkmid NEVER seemed to be interested in, despite this player being in the game the whole time. That's Alan. Alan starts by wanting to discuss tons of policy. LinkHuge WIFOM, no commitment. LinkWishy Washy on Golbat, creates distance from a mislynch. LinkDefends Zork lightly. LinkKisses up a little, and references a game where out of several cases made, I only had a 50% scum lynch record. LinkOMGUS against Mord LinkIf you really think I'm the next best lynch, well... I'm probably not. I switched at a point where there was no way to avoid suspicion. Please don't make a case revolve around that, as it leads towards confirmation bias.
Alan is saying things which are perfectly townish which JingleHell is trying to twist into scummy play. Yes, Alan switched to Zork after the fakeclaim. But he didn't use the fakeclaim as the excuse for the switch. That's the scumslip we're focusing on.
The only accusation that is logically consistent here is that Alan is WIFOM-y. At this point half the town is WIFOM-y. It's not good to lynch based on that alone.
3) Scum try to look suspicious of someone that is in no danger of being lynched so they are uninvolved with the lynch of a townie.
See this part of the quote above:
Also, look through Zorkmid's filter. If you'll notice, there's one person who swapped even later than I did, who even I suspect, who Zorkmid NEVER seemed to be interested in, despite this player being in the game the whole time. That's Alan.
And this (note how GK only had 1 vote on him at this point):
On August 04 2012 01:07 JingleHell wrote:
Ok, trying to say "You're next because you don't agree with me", when there's not some sort of rock solid evidence...
You're right, I've been too stubborn. People aren't ready to vote for Ange.
##Unvote
##Vote GK
You seem awfully convinced that certain people are scum based on flips that haven't happened, and that's kind of an obvious slip.
4) Scum acknowledges the logical conclusions of others, but discounts them using ad hominems or indirect arguments.
On August 04 2012 22:44 JingleHell wrote:
I'm going to try and get this concept through people's skulls one more time. My reasoning for suspecting Ange was not for any specific thing he said. It was for the timing of asking me to post cases on people besides Shady, followed by immediately adding evidence to the case against Shady.
It looked like an effort to give me a confirmation bias.
I was asking about motives. Not about semantics. (Granted, semantics seems to be the only thing you people understand)
This is the last time I attempt to defend that. At this point, any townies who aren't sheeping on scum have a healthy dose of their own confirmation bias, so I feel no need to continue arguing with a brick wall.
I switched at a point where there was no way to avoid suspicion. Please don't make a case revolve around that, as it leads towards confirmation bias.
5) If a scum player is about to be lynched and other scum know it, the other scum will try to distance themselves from that player.
+ Show Spoiler [JingleHell's posts on Zork] +On August 04 2012 03:53 JingleHell wrote:
Yeah, this is weak as hell, Zork. Show me a real breadcrumb. Something specific, not some Da Vinci Code shit.
If that's a town play, it's a bad town play.
##Unvote
##Vote Zorkmid
If you can't show a real breadcrumb for the N1 save, this is just desperation. On August 04 2012 04:06 JingleHell wrote:
Well, it could be an anagram for a word in a different language, then if we apply some advanced numerology, eat some peyote, and go on a vision quest, we can discern that his "breadcrumb" actually doesn't mean a damn thing. On August 04 2012 04:11 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 04:10 alan133 wrote:It did not make much sense... Let me fix that for you. ActIvity seeMs woefully slow. I guess that Most of you Are on diFferent clocks that I Am. Done. ##Unvote: Mordanis
##Vote: Zorkmid Lol. That one does, sadly, make more sense. And illustrates the hilarity. On August 04 2012 04:16 JingleHell wrote:
So much for my tactic of assuming that the guy who sounds like he's smoking some good shit is actually town. But I can't imagine a good townie reason to fakeclaim.
Although it is an excellent way to insult the IQ of the entire town?
No one else does all this. Only JH. JH is the loud scum who has enough wiggle room to play loud because he was a D2 replacement. Lynch him.
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I'm going to repeat point #4 from my post above:
4) Scum acknowledges the logical conclusions of others, but discounts them using ad hominems or indirect arguments.
Now I'm going to repeat what JingleHell just posted in response:
On August 05 2012 04:53 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, I'd look scummy no matter what because I wasn't NKed as a replacement. Given that there's literally no way to post without it being possible to WIFOM it into being scummy, and you're operating based on confirmation bias, instead of reading what I've said objectively, I'm just going to watch the flock fail hard.
Post something that isn't some convoluted acid trip that there's no way to defend against, and I'll post a defense.
This is as close as it gets without the mod telling us.
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On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.
Because obviously in a town of 13, we would have 3 scum, 1 medic, 2 masons, AND a roleblocker. Gee, that's realistic.
Anyhow, very glad that scum was not able to find the medic.
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EBWOP: Let's not forget the vigi we lynched D1 too.
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Where's aRyuujin? Why hasn't he posted at all in response to my accusations against him earlier? Mord's NK makes him look pretty guilty. I'm also eager to hear what he thinks about JingleHell.
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On August 05 2012 06:24 Mordanis wrote:I began the JINGLE game by writing a sonnet, I'm leaving the game 6 ft under in a coffin. At first the scum seemed to have a W16 under their bonnet, But town has proved to have the intellectual power of a boffin. At first things seemed so grim HELL, but now they are so so bright! So fill with hope your hearts to the brim if you're town; If you're scum, your hope should be slight. You're all so IS incredibly smart, Scum have no chance of taking this game. Town: you can get this game for $4.99 at KMart, Scum, for you I can't say the same. Though I must leave you all now, take courage For I will be with you in spirit always. And eat your porridge. SCUM+ Show Spoiler +I've been given permission to point out that the rhyme scheme is abab cdcd efef gg
Guys, Mordanis was breadcrumbing us the whole time. After Zork tipped us off to this steganographic technique, I have found a clue.
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On August 05 2012 06:31 Ange777 wrote:
@Shady:
Maybe scum was trying to kill the medic instead of WIFOMing who the medic would save. I mean both of us thought we might die this night.
Fair enough. Once JingleHell is lynched and the next Night cycle is over, I'd recommend the medic roleclaiming.
Between you, the medic, and me, then we'd have 3 confirmed townies vs 1 mafia in a town of 6. And since in a situation like that it'd be suicidal for the mafia to counterclaim, then there'd be no chance someone could mislynch medic.
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+ Show Spoiler [Alan's cases] +On August 05 2012 18:26 alan133 wrote:@AngeYes, I am leaning towards a scum Jingle for the same reasons. His shift his FOS towards me seems like a desperation move to shift the focus away from himself. I think even a townie Jingle would be more careful when he suggest a new lynch, as the town's goal is to lynch scum, not just to survive. I went through aRyu's filter once and did not come out with anything else that has not been said about him already. I think his lurkiness is generally anti-town, so I did not put it in my post. @aRyuI went through the filter again and I thought I should share something I found. It is a bit WIFOM: + Show Spoiler +aRyuujin/MrMedic
Suspecting me-Smart I did not yet provide posts Either i'm scum or A really bad Town. Mr Medic comes to mind For these reasons too Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:53 MrMedic wrote:
Ok, I am sorry about all these little posts I am doing. I am new to the game and am kinda reluctant to do a big first post but I will try now since everyone is telling me to post something worth while (I agree also).
First, I agree with Darthpunk for a variety of reasons. The largest reason in all of this is that he is constantly saying contradictions with him self. Saying that we should lynch Mr K in his third option and he says this would be great but in the other options while saying this he says we might ruin the town more or it will be bad for the town. But the thing that most strikes me is that he says number 2 is the least probable but he says in his third option that we should lynch him now. But he says at the end we shouldn't lynch him right now. What this really shows is that he is trying to force the option one on too our minds and make us think that he just trying to take one for the team. So in conclusion, he is on top of showing what option he wants us to do. Also, he only shows the options of killing him and as a result would not be a big deal or be a good thing and even though he tress to show the negativity of the situation in actuality he steers you away from it and making it seem like a positive outcome no matter what happens. His first content post he looks he's saying stuff showing fallacies He's bandwagoning and his analysis makes little sense if you understand how mordanis was posting those were 3 what-ifs false contribution and his confusing posts lead me to believe that he's either a bad town, or a mafioso backup vote's on him Here seems like aRyu is kicking MrMedic(Jingle's predecessor) out for sheeping on DP. Ignoring WIFOM, it is unlikely scum aRyu and scum MrMedic (now Jingle) interacts publicly in such a manner in such an early stage. I would say if one of them is scum, the other is kind of cleared. I am not saying both can't be town (or with WIFOM, scum), but it won't make sense if both are town, unless there is some ballsy bussing maneuver going on in day 3. @DarthPunkThe conclusion I made above convinced me DarthPunk is the potential last scum, given that no bussing occurred. I went through his huge filter and was hoping to find one slip that can nail him, and have yet to find anything substantial. His blatant defences on Zorkmid is definitely scum motivated, and I know I also "defended" zorkmid, I hope you all see that I have been consistent with defending people who I thought was being called out for the wrong reasons. I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag  On August 05 2012 18:26 alan133 wrote:@AngeYes, I am leaning towards a scum Jingle for the same reasons. His shift his FOS towards me seems like a desperation move to shift the focus away from himself. I think even a townie Jingle would be more careful when he suggest a new lynch, as the town's goal is to lynch scum, not just to survive. I went through aRyu's filter once and did not come out with anything else that has not been said about him already. I think his lurkiness is generally anti-town, so I did not put it in my post. @aRyuI went through the filter again and I thought I should share something I found. It is a bit WIFOM: + Show Spoiler +aRyuujin/MrMedic
Suspecting me-Smart I did not yet provide posts Either i'm scum or A really bad Town. Mr Medic comes to mind For these reasons too Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:53 MrMedic wrote:
Ok, I am sorry about all these little posts I am doing. I am new to the game and am kinda reluctant to do a big first post but I will try now since everyone is telling me to post something worth while (I agree also).
First, I agree with Darthpunk for a variety of reasons. The largest reason in all of this is that he is constantly saying contradictions with him self. Saying that we should lynch Mr K in his third option and he says this would be great but in the other options while saying this he says we might ruin the town more or it will be bad for the town. But the thing that most strikes me is that he says number 2 is the least probable but he says in his third option that we should lynch him now. But he says at the end we shouldn't lynch him right now. What this really shows is that he is trying to force the option one on too our minds and make us think that he just trying to take one for the team. So in conclusion, he is on top of showing what option he wants us to do. Also, he only shows the options of killing him and as a result would not be a big deal or be a good thing and even though he tress to show the negativity of the situation in actuality he steers you away from it and making it seem like a positive outcome no matter what happens. His first content post he looks he's saying stuff showing fallacies He's bandwagoning and his analysis makes little sense if you understand how mordanis was posting those were 3 what-ifs false contribution and his confusing posts lead me to believe that he's either a bad town, or a mafioso backup vote's on him Here seems like aRyu is kicking MrMedic(Jingle's predecessor) out for sheeping on DP. Ignoring WIFOM, it is unlikely scum aRyu and scum MrMedic (now Jingle) interacts publicly in such a manner in such an early stage. I would say if one of them is scum, the other is kind of cleared. I am not saying both can't be town (or with WIFOM, scum), but it won't make sense if both are town, unless there is some ballsy bussing maneuver going on in day 3. @DarthPunkThe conclusion I made above convinced me DarthPunk is the potential last scum, given that no bussing occurred. I went through his huge filter and was hoping to find one slip that can nail him, and have yet to find anything substantial. His blatant defences on Zorkmid is definitely scum motivated, and I know I also "defended" zorkmid, I hope you all see that I have been consistent with defending people who I thought was being called out for the wrong reasons. I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag
I'm in fair agreement with this, although I lean a bit more strongly to aRyuu than Darth. I think that between the three of them here are the two scum.
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Darth, I'm still a little confused by your posting sequence. Are you saying we should lynch Ange over JingleHell? Or that Ange is the 3rd scum?
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On August 06 2012 05:33 Ange777 wrote:
@Jingle: Still playing this game?
I think he ragequit.
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+ Show Spoiler [Ange's Case on Darth] +On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:So if you have been avidly following my conversation with DarthPunk you will probably have realized we don't really see eye to eye. Now I am going to give him another reason to disagree with me. I am proposing to lynch DarthPunk first instead of Jingle.You might think that it does seem like an aweful OMGUS vote after I have been vividly arguing with DarthPunk but OMGUS isn't about WHO you vote, it's about HOW you vote them. A vote is only OMGUS if you're voting them BECAUSE they voted you. If you vote them for a well-thought-out reason, even if they also voted you, then it's not OMGUS.
Let's first go through the reasons why I wanted to vote him anyway: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=48#9451. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch. Instead of really defending himself against my accusations DarthPunk makes a huge WIFOM explanation and decides to paint me scummy by saying I set him up with a trap. He denies me any kind of town motivation for pointing out Zork's scumslip. Yet he was happy to give Zork the benefit of doubt until last minute even though many people pointed out his scum behaviour. I see a clear scum motivation for his behaviour:
1. Save Zork and mislynch Mordanis (or aRyuujin at least) instead
2. When there is no way to save Zork, switch the vote before Zork's claim to get a bit of town cred
3. Discredit me as I am the most active power behind his lynch and mislynch me insteadWith him being called out as scum by several people DarthPunk is just flailing around desperately trying to shift the attention to someone, anyone besides himself. He didn't even give us any other reads besides me. I can only repeat it: This is no pro town play! DarthPunk, I'd really like to congratulate you for writing the best case on yourself -> your own filter!So why lynch DarthPunk before Jingle? After all this discussion I am even more convinced of him being scum than I am of Jingle. I made the case on Jingle because there was no town motivation for his awful play. If he isn't just simply bad he must be scum. However this case against DarthPunk is based on his clear scum motivation and not based on the lack of town motivation. To make it clear: If I am 99% convinced that Jingle is scum, than I am 100% convinced that DarthPunk is scum.In my opinion we can not let him get away with this! ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk
While Ange has put up an excellent case on Darth, I think we'll have a far easier time building consensus on a JingleHell lynch than on a Darth lynch. Darth and aRyuujin both fall into the "scummy, but not yet scum" bucket for me (and several other people), while JingleHell is a clear scum for nearly everyone. Given that we'll need 5/6 of the town to agree to lynch someone, I'd suggest we go for JingleHell, since "one in the hand beats two in the bush."
Ange, I hope you can understand this.
That being said though, my read on Darth has gotten scummier as I've looked more closely at the Mordanis nightkill. Why nightkill Mordanis? He was nowhere near to being confirmed town, given how much quieter he'd become since D1, and how both his targets on D1--Golbat and me, as well as his Prox targetting D2--flipped blue/green. He also didn't seem like the doctor--I'll get more reasons into that later, once the second scum is dead (I don't want to endanger who I think is the doctor.)
Then the reason comes about through two things:
1) Mordanis was either onto a mafia during the Night 3 discussions
and/or
2) Scum *thought* Mordanis was confirmed town.
Mord was levying a bunch of mediocre accusations at Darthpunk during Night 3, but even so, I don't think point 1 is the main point. The real thing is that if scum were both wagoned in on Mordanis, then to them, there were only 2 other town votes that "bought their story". Therefore there in their eyes, Mordanis does look like confirmed town.
Because of those 2 points, my read on Darth shifts to being much more scummy than originally so. Not all the way yet, as I think no one in this thread is as scummy as JingleHell (and hence no one is more deserving of a lynch)--but a fair amount. Darth's got some hard work ahead of him if he wants to stave off a lynch.
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On August 06 2012 10:28 JingleHell wrote:I'm entirely amused that playing LoL for the day turns me into a ragequit, in a game where there's literally no point in me trying to defend myself, because unless a scum attacking me claims scum, the tunnel won't get off me. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 08:55 DarthPunk wrote:
Of course I am ignoring jingle. 1.) I have a town read on him, and 2.) he is not in the thread to defend himself so accusing him would not reap any new information. It is also odd that you were lurking the thread, not contributing anything and then almost immediately after myself and obvious link you with being scum you come out with that rather ironic post. By the way, DarthPunk... much as I appreciate the vote of confidence, claiming you have a townread on me at this point makes me wonder if you're setting people up to look bad after I flip.
What happened to your long case on Alan? You don't think he's guilty anymore?
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On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote:
Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green.
But you just pretty much tossed your entire case on Alan133 out the window and posted a one-liner statement on Darthpunk. That might make sense for an ##unvote, but you went ahead and voted Darthpunk anyhow. That's really wierd. If you're so hell-bent on proving that you're a contributing townie, why don't you build a longer case on Darthpunk before telling town to "flail around and die" once you get lynched?
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[green]Can we get a votecount?]/green]
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On August 06 2012 12:21 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 12:10 Shady Sands wrote:On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote:
Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green. But you just pretty much tossed your entire case on Alan133 out the window and posted a one-liner statement on Darthpunk. That might make sense for an ##unvote, but you went ahead and voted Darthpunk anyhow. That's really wierd. If you're so hell-bent on proving that you're a contributing townie, why don't you build a longer case on Darthpunk before telling town to "flail around and die" once you get lynched? I'm not hellbent on proving anything. I'm pointing to something scummy as hell. If you don't think it's suspicious now, you might later, if I get lynched, since I'll flip green. I actually already gave up on proving my innocence, if you were too thick to figure that out. Something to do with the fact that anything and everything I do gets subjected to such a ludicrous level of WIFOM that it's a waste of time and energy. If you want to see my case against Alan, you can go re-read the one I already posted that nobody was interested in seeing. If you want to see a new case against him, go make one. A confirmed townie who sheeps and refuses to think is the best thing that can happen to scum, so don't expect me to ask "How high" when you say "Jump", you're a detriment to the rest of us. First, it was scummy that I wasn't making a case against every single person in the game, including the dead ones. Now it's scummy that I'm looking at everyone. Make up your damn minds, or lynch me, which, I'm sure, will be followed by convincing yourselves it was my fault so you don't have to address your inability to think critically.
Look. You still haven't answered my question yet. Why are you suspicious of DP? What is scummy? Is it just his defense of you alone?
It's day 4. If you want to make a vote, you need to present a better case than a one-liner. I saw your play in XXI. You're better than this.
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EPT
