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Newbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 3

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Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 01:25 GMT
#456
EBWOP: I'm dumb some times. Of those five who would you be most likely to vote for right now and why. Or a top two, something to narrow it down from half the player base.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 01:32 GMT
#459
Sorry, I misread that. I'm an idiot and will re-read things next time before commenting. You talked about the pre-game and I read it as his game before this one. (Where he sucked and got lynched D1) you are right though, that does bare looking at since his pre-game was more active than his game.

Instead of pointing out that I am dumb (which I am) can you tell me who seems scummiest to you in your list. I'd like some more direct reads from you, remember I know your town meta just as you know my scum meta, you'd better conform to it and make good cases and stick with them. It was that which made you unkillable for us in XIX, you were too hard set in your reads and too confidant. You make me want to make a meta case against you. Please prove to me (and the rest of the thread) your towniness. I want you to either be on my side or dead and you building cases and committing to them will help me know whether you are town or scum.

Help a brother out here and tell me which of your five is the most scummy and why.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 01:33 GMT
#460
oooop, ninja'd. Thank you!

Why those two?

And so that it is clear to the thread my choices would be SS and Karma, I'm leaning both ways right now but as the day progresses I'll be more sure.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 01:44 GMT
#462
On July 30 2012 10:39 Keirathi wrote:
What do you mean "why"? I've just said why I find them scummy in my big post. I don't know what else you want me to say. Just repeat myself?

And WHAT? I was "unkillable" in XIX only because Hopeless was so scummy on day1 and you didn't need to try to kill me. I even spent half of my first day arguing with him being your scum partner. Both of your partners were low reads on my list when I subbed in. The only person I was really confident in, at least before the second night kill, was you and I couldn't push you anyways.


I wanted to know why it was those two mosre than the other three. That is why you feel that your cases against them are better than the ones against Me, Mord and Zork.

The way you pushed your reads (at least the one on me, maybe I over emphasize it in my head because it was on me) was perfect. You stuck to your guns played it right and gave us a real run for our money in a game we essentially already won. Thank the lord for Hopeless.

TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 04:48 GMT
#469
Obvious, it would be great if instead of finding cases you would be comfortable with making you actually made a case of your own instead of just talking about mine.
Why ask MrM about my Zork case? Why not SS or GK? Do you want the lurkers to give opinions of each other? Does MrM have an insight into people with letters in their names that win you scrabble games? Why that case in particular?
Just so you know I have been following NMM XXI pretty closely.

Keir: You are quite right, we need to stop it with these XIX talks. I'd love to talk to you about it when we aren't in a game together though. For now I appreciate your thoughts on your reads and I agree with you that Karma is probably the best lynch on your list. I missed that Mord post so thank you, that moves him greenward for me. Obvious' what the fuck makes sense for both alignments. I don;t want to read too much into it, null tells are null.
I liked your pressure on me, I was going to be worried if I came back from so long away and you left me alone totally. I respect your play a lot and (I think) you see the same in me. I consider you either my greatest ally in this game or the greatest threat to a town victory depending on your alignment. You are doing a good job of making it seem that you are town and I assume the NK was against one of us (assuming you are town).

Obvious, I like that point 4 is the same as point 5, you really are unhappy with that. So since you are so sure that SS is scum can you give me your reasons instead of mine for his scumminess.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 05:07 GMT
#472
I'm around, don't worry about that. I have to stay up to write up a portfolio so I can get into my third year classes in my major and, since I'm a bad student, I'll be procrastinating for a while.

Are those 5/6 reasons really what makes you think that SS is scum? I assumed you had read my case and were jsut adding some minor points to it. The only point in there I find even remotely convincing is 2, that actually did seem scummy. I'll address all of your points individually if you want, I think it is important we lynch people for good reasons and not bad ones. I think SS is scummy and I feel that I have provided good reasons for finding him such. I don;t like your reasons though, they seem like weak reasons to bandwagon.

what do you think of my points on SS since you haven't addressed them in your 'case'
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 05:33 GMT
#474
@Obvious I'm expecting a post from you soon dude. You have had time to look. Now tell me what you think. Give me something to work with here, live up to your name and be transparent.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 05:47 GMT
#476
On July 30 2012 14:35 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2012 13:48 Promethelax wrote:
You are doing a good job of making it seem that you are town


I just realized: that statement bothers me for some reason.

I mean, objectively, I've pushed fairly hard for the lynch on our Vigi. I've spent a fair amount of post space defending your top scum read.

So what exactly seems like I'm town? I don't want to sound ungrateful, but honestly I feel like I should probably be a fairly high suspect in your list.


I disagree with your reads but not your play. You have been making reads based on real things, applying good pressure where it needs to be applied and, in general, acting in a pro-town manner. I'm looking at how you are playing not the people you think are town/scum. Your reads could be wrong or mine could but your play has seemed positive for town thus far.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 06:07 GMT
#480
Okay, Glad you posted. I'll try to work through your individual posts but I just want to say that the town townie town thing was a joke because that was a think that Keir called me out on hard in our last game. I thought it was funny.

I'll try to find one of the places I have seen a host say that we can't use other people's activity outside of the thread to refer to someone in the game. Give me a sec, I think it was in I can't believe... that someone talked about Mattchew being online in skype and got in trouble for it.

I think having town leaders who are here all the time is great. I'm going to play well while I'm here, if I end up being a town leader while working full time, living with my fiance and partying than go me. But town should be better than that and someone else will, I hope, lead town. All I can do is provide my own analysis when I am here.

I dunno why I said 'a' case instead of my case but: I think that GK is scummy. His play has revealed many scum traits and I have tried to make them clear to everyone else.

If you have scum reads on more people why haven't we heard any of them? If you are not trying to OMGUS it seems weird that you say that I'm the first of two but leave out the second. I just want to point this out, I'll be holding you to your promise to make your case on this mystery other person. Please tell us now who that other person is so that you cannot change your mind based on who the thread thinks is scummy later.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 06:10 GMT
#481
Obvious: I'm glad you agree with me. I feel very smart and stuff. Do you have anything to add to this? Honestly it seems like you posted my points and said that they were right...is your only addition to this your 5 points?
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 06:15 GMT
#482
GK:
On July 14 2012 07:28 NoSmurfHere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2012 07:24 Risen wrote:
Are we allowed to post out-of-thread information in this thread? Like, lets say I see someone posting elsewhere on another forum, but not posting here in thread... can I bring attention to that fact?


No.

TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 06:16 GMT
#483
EBWOP read inside the spoiler. Note the answer, I /obs'd this game and it only ended recently so it is still fresh in my mind.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 06:29 GMT
#486
No man, the Mystery Scum thing was at GK. You are good.

I'm glad you agree with me, that is an opinion. I wanted you to add something though instead of simply agreeing. You have said what you think of my case and I appreciate that. You didn't waste your time my man, don;t be so quick to anger. My response that you misunderstood was not directed at you.

Keir: since you are here what do you think of GK's case? Since you and I agree that he looks scummy how do you think he has done with his new case?
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 07:20 GMT
#492
I thought it was a really obvious joke, given that I referred to town beers and a two man town circle being a town line. I'll work on being more obvious when I'm kidding.

Yeah, I do post in other threads as well as this one. I don't get why that is an anything tell.

alright, thanks for your analysis. Any chance you can explain to obvious that I didn't make him waste his time I wanted his opinion and I was hoping it would add something more than simple agreement. He doesn;t seem to want to listen to me and I'm not sure how to prove that asking for someone's opinion isn't a scumtell.

Obvious' reaction does seem scummy though: I asked him what he thought of my scum read (GK) and he came back with 'oh yeah, totally scummy' and immediately afterwards he agreed with GK, a guy he thinks is scummy, that I look scummy. Are we bussing each other? Are there two scum factions? Obvious, you aren't being consistent. Why not?
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 07:23 GMT
#493
Oh hey, really good analysis by Mordanis. I'm off to filter Ange who is one of two players totally blank on my spreadsheet.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 07:41 GMT
#497
On July 30 2012 14:56 goodkarma wrote:
There... my response is finally posted... Sorry it took so long guys. I wanted to try to address everything in one go, and bring forward my own scum-reads into one post. I will check back in about an hour, and will give a thorough reread of everything tomorrow.


I just want to say that this was 1.5 hours ago. If karma doesn't come back soon he moves even further into my scum column.

On Ange: her posting follows a scummy pattern but her general Analysis is pretty good. Not enough to get her off the hook and she sheeped two cases but the general points are decent.
Her Pressure on Shady for his 'if one of Golbat/Mordanis flips green the other is red' seems genuine however she was not the first to bring it up and, if SS is town, I would latch onto a thing like that as scum because it is such a scum tell.

One of the scummiest things I found was Ange's use of the words "Promethelax's case on ShadySands" after she had made a case too. That seemed a little too much like an attempt to distance herself from the eventual lynch. Of course these things aren't always tells sometimes a case is just a case.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 07:46 GMT
#498
On July 30 2012 16:38 Obvious.660 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2012 15:29 Promethelax wrote:
No man, the Mystery Scum thing was at GK. You are good.

I'm glad you agree with me, that is an opinion. I wanted you to add something though instead of simply agreeing. You have said what you think of my case and I appreciate that. You didn't waste your time my man, don;t be so quick to anger. My response that you misunderstood was not directed at you.

Keir: since you are here what do you think of GK's case? Since you and I agree that he looks scummy how do you think he has done with his new case?

Well shit, I didn't see this. My apologies, I'm still not properly coffee'd up. Time for more coffee. I drink Maxwell House, I just wish I had some vanilla creamer. I'm also still confused as to what you wanted that was new when you had already spelled out most of it. I was just fueling the fire with my own take on it, after also picking up the tell that ended up being my reason for voting for him D1. Zeratul help us if we're wrong. Should we just let this back and forth between us about SS go for now and revisit it when it becomes an issue again?

I'll look at the other cases (those who didn't vote for Golbat, since we've been beating that drum during the night, a fresh approach would be good) and see if I can make any sense out of them and give you my take.


No worries my man, I live on a night shift schedule so this is the end of my night instead of my early morning and I forget that others aren't always so functional at bum fuck o'clock. Can't blame you for misreading my post. Really. Until you give town more though you are a null read for me. Might be a good idea to build a case or two and soon, good of you to volunteer to do it though, that helps you. But anyways, thanks for being reasonable when you saw my response to you.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 09:14 GMT
#501
Sorry I'm on my way to bed and I figured I would quickly reply to Karma before falling asleep. I am sure I'll miss some points but the basic one of why is my play so different now than it was is that I work Tuesday-Saturday. I play better on my days off.

As to the town leader thing: I just spent like ten minutes looking for the quote but couldn't find it. I think it was Marv who said (and I'm paraphrasing) "town needs two things, a good annalist and a good leader; they don't have to be the same person they just both have to exist" I'm not saying I should be a town leader or a town analyst, I am saying that town is following my analysis and that I am taking things said by players whom I greatly respect and trying to forge my town play around that. If the two things that town needs are a good leader and someone with good analysis I will try to provide both.
I think you and I don't see eye to eye on what a town leader is. I'm not saying we should elect a mayor, I'm saying having someone who is clearly pro-town trying to create a pro-town environment is a necessity for town. By town leader I mean someone who is creating an environment where town flourishes even if the person creating that environment has their head up their ass on every single one of their reads.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 09:16 GMT
#502
Oh, and based on the unwillingness to share this other mystery suspect with the thread I am going to ##Vote: Karma hiding your suspects doesn't help town and gives you as scum a huge asset in that you can come out with a case at any time and say "I've been suspicious of X for a long time. See this post here, I totally meant this guy you all see as scummy so I'm not jumping on this bandwagon, I've been on it forever"

I will not unvote you until you reveal your mystery scum read.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 30 2012 21:48 GMT
#530
On July 31 2012 00:49 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 00:39 Shady Sands wrote:
Darth, I'm getting really bad vibes about Promethelax's "town circle"/"town leadership" ideas as well. No idea why he would choose to lurk D1 and then immediately start to argue for something like this so quickly.


I don't think he lurked on day one. His schedule and my time-zone actually synch up fairly well. and at that time lots of people are asleep and not much happens in the thread while the US is asleep . That being said it blows my mind how hard he seems to be trying to establish his Townieness and I don't know what possible advantage it could bring.


Being a clear town assets helps town hugely, it removes a townie from suspicion. Look at MTG where I played like crap (that is had no idea what the fuck was happening) but Nova_Terra still called me one of the best town players that was because it was clear that I was town even though me reads until right at the end were terrible. In one of the guides (I think it is Qotal's) it says that one of the most important things a townie can do is prove their innocence and I have read a lot of postgames in which hosts say that looking townie is something town needs to work on.

I kinda wish I had played worse as scum so my meta wasn't so similar but ah well, nothing I can do about that now. I actually think my meta is really different and I think it is easy to spot the differences but me pointing them out doesn't help town read me since I am aware of my meta I could have intentionally changed it.

GK: Since you have explained your reasoning ##: Unvote

For those that think I am scummy I would urge you to actually see the things I am putting into the thread. I have provided good cases, I am willing to change my reads as new behaviours are exhibited and new information comes to light. I am acting in a pro-town manner in this game because I am playing with a town win con.

Keir: Honestly I don;t want to lead discussion. I'd love to be able to provide cases and let others lead the talking but since no one has stepped in I am trying to provide some guidance to the other nubs here. My obsessive behaviour has lead to me reading a ton of mafia games, and related qts as well as guides and host notes. The amount of information I have ingested makes me feel pretty good about my general game knowledge and I am trying to help town with that knowledge.

Every single member of town should try to establish their towniness. It is awful play to fail to do that (see our D1 mislynch of a guy who totally failed to establish himself as town and town was punished for it). I am trying to do three things: establish myself as town, create a positive town atmosphere and build good cases on people who appear scummy to me. I would argue that 100% of my behaviour falls into line with those three goals and you would do well to realize that I am working towards a town victory and not a scum one.

My posting style will change again soon since I have work for the next five days, starting tomorrow. I'll try to be more active than I was in the early game but I won't be as crazy active as I have been these past few days.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
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