EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 3
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Instead of pointing out that I am dumb (which I am) can you tell me who seems scummiest to you in your list. I'd like some more direct reads from you, remember I know your town meta just as you know my scum meta, you'd better conform to it and make good cases and stick with them. It was that which made you unkillable for us in XIX, you were too hard set in your reads and too confidant. You make me want to make a meta case against you. Please prove to me (and the rest of the thread) your towniness. I want you to either be on my side or dead and you building cases and committing to them will help me know whether you are town or scum. Help a brother out here and tell me which of your five is the most scummy and why. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Why those two? And so that it is clear to the thread my choices would be SS and Karma, I'm leaning both ways right now but as the day progresses I'll be more sure. | ||
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Promethelax
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On July 30 2012 10:39 Keirathi wrote: What do you mean "why"? I've just said why I find them scummy in my big post. I don't know what else you want me to say. Just repeat myself? And WHAT? I was "unkillable" in XIX only because Hopeless was so scummy on day1 and you didn't need to try to kill me. I even spent half of my first day arguing with him being your scum partner. Both of your partners were low reads on my list when I subbed in. The only person I was really confident in, at least before the second night kill, was you and I couldn't push you anyways. I wanted to know why it was those two mosre than the other three. That is why you feel that your cases against them are better than the ones against Me, Mord and Zork. The way you pushed your reads (at least the one on me, maybe I over emphasize it in my head because it was on me) was perfect. You stuck to your guns played it right and gave us a real run for our money in a game we essentially already won. Thank the lord for Hopeless. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Why ask MrM about my Zork case? Why not SS or GK? Do you want the lurkers to give opinions of each other? Does MrM have an insight into people with letters in their names that win you scrabble games? Why that case in particular? Just so you know I have been following NMM XXI pretty closely. Keir: You are quite right, we need to stop it with these XIX talks. I'd love to talk to you about it when we aren't in a game together though. For now I appreciate your thoughts on your reads and I agree with you that Karma is probably the best lynch on your list. I missed that Mord post so thank you, that moves him greenward for me. Obvious' what the fuck makes sense for both alignments. I don;t want to read too much into it, null tells are null. I liked your pressure on me, I was going to be worried if I came back from so long away and you left me alone totally. I respect your play a lot and (I think) you see the same in me. I consider you either my greatest ally in this game or the greatest threat to a town victory depending on your alignment. You are doing a good job of making it seem that you are town and I assume the NK was against one of us (assuming you are town). Obvious, I like that point 4 is the same as point 5, you really are unhappy with that. So since you are so sure that SS is scum can you give me your reasons instead of mine for his scumminess. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Are those 5/6 reasons really what makes you think that SS is scum? I assumed you had read my case and were jsut adding some minor points to it. The only point in there I find even remotely convincing is 2, that actually did seem scummy. I'll address all of your points individually if you want, I think it is important we lynch people for good reasons and not bad ones. I think SS is scummy and I feel that I have provided good reasons for finding him such. I don;t like your reasons though, they seem like weak reasons to bandwagon. what do you think of my points on SS since you haven't addressed them in your 'case' | ||
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On July 30 2012 14:35 Keirathi wrote: I just realized: that statement bothers me for some reason. I mean, objectively, I've pushed fairly hard for the lynch on our Vigi. I've spent a fair amount of post space defending your top scum read. So what exactly seems like I'm town? I don't want to sound ungrateful, but honestly I feel like I should probably be a fairly high suspect in your list. I disagree with your reads but not your play. You have been making reads based on real things, applying good pressure where it needs to be applied and, in general, acting in a pro-town manner. I'm looking at how you are playing not the people you think are town/scum. Your reads could be wrong or mine could but your play has seemed positive for town thus far. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
I'll try to find one of the places I have seen a host say that we can't use other people's activity outside of the thread to refer to someone in the game. Give me a sec, I think it was in I can't believe... that someone talked about Mattchew being online in skype and got in trouble for it. I think having town leaders who are here all the time is great. I'm going to play well while I'm here, if I end up being a town leader while working full time, living with my fiance and partying than go me. But town should be better than that and someone else will, I hope, lead town. All I can do is provide my own analysis when I am here. I dunno why I said 'a' case instead of my case but: I think that GK is scummy. His play has revealed many scum traits and I have tried to make them clear to everyone else. If you have scum reads on more people why haven't we heard any of them? If you are not trying to OMGUS it seems weird that you say that I'm the first of two but leave out the second. I just want to point this out, I'll be holding you to your promise to make your case on this mystery other person. Please tell us now who that other person is so that you cannot change your mind based on who the thread thinks is scummy later. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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I'm glad you agree with me, that is an opinion. I wanted you to add something though instead of simply agreeing. You have said what you think of my case and I appreciate that. You didn't waste your time my man, don;t be so quick to anger. My response that you misunderstood was not directed at you. Keir: since you are here what do you think of GK's case? Since you and I agree that he looks scummy how do you think he has done with his new case? | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Yeah, I do post in other threads as well as this one. I don't get why that is an anything tell. alright, thanks for your analysis. Any chance you can explain to obvious that I didn't make him waste his time I wanted his opinion and I was hoping it would add something more than simple agreement. He doesn;t seem to want to listen to me and I'm not sure how to prove that asking for someone's opinion isn't a scumtell. Obvious' reaction does seem scummy though: I asked him what he thought of my scum read (GK) and he came back with 'oh yeah, totally scummy' and immediately afterwards he agreed with GK, a guy he thinks is scummy, that I look scummy. Are we bussing each other? Are there two scum factions? Obvious, you aren't being consistent. Why not? | ||
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On July 30 2012 14:56 goodkarma wrote: There... my response is finally posted... Sorry it took so long guys. I wanted to try to address everything in one go, and bring forward my own scum-reads into one post. I will check back in about an hour, and will give a thorough reread of everything tomorrow. I just want to say that this was 1.5 hours ago. If karma doesn't come back soon he moves even further into my scum column. On Ange: her posting follows a scummy pattern but her general Analysis is pretty good. Not enough to get her off the hook and she sheeped two cases but the general points are decent. Her Pressure on Shady for his 'if one of Golbat/Mordanis flips green the other is red' seems genuine however she was not the first to bring it up and, if SS is town, I would latch onto a thing like that as scum because it is such a scum tell. One of the scummiest things I found was Ange's use of the words "Promethelax's case on ShadySands" after she had made a case too. That seemed a little too much like an attempt to distance herself from the eventual lynch. Of course these things aren't always tells sometimes a case is just a case. | ||
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Promethelax
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On July 30 2012 16:38 Obvious.660 wrote: Well shit, I didn't see this. My apologies, I'm still not properly coffee'd up. Time for more coffee. I drink Maxwell House, I just wish I had some vanilla creamer. I'm also still confused as to what you wanted that was new when you had already spelled out most of it. I was just fueling the fire with my own take on it, after also picking up the tell that ended up being my reason for voting for him D1. Zeratul help us if we're wrong. Should we just let this back and forth between us about SS go for now and revisit it when it becomes an issue again? I'll look at the other cases (those who didn't vote for Golbat, since we've been beating that drum during the night, a fresh approach would be good) and see if I can make any sense out of them and give you my take. No worries my man, I live on a night shift schedule so this is the end of my night instead of my early morning and I forget that others aren't always so functional at bum fuck o'clock. Can't blame you for misreading my post. Really. Until you give town more though you are a null read for me. Might be a good idea to build a case or two and soon, good of you to volunteer to do it though, that helps you. But anyways, thanks for being reasonable when you saw my response to you. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
As to the town leader thing: I just spent like ten minutes looking for the quote but couldn't find it. I think it was Marv who said (and I'm paraphrasing) "town needs two things, a good annalist and a good leader; they don't have to be the same person they just both have to exist" I'm not saying I should be a town leader or a town analyst, I am saying that town is following my analysis and that I am taking things said by players whom I greatly respect and trying to forge my town play around that. If the two things that town needs are a good leader and someone with good analysis I will try to provide both. I think you and I don't see eye to eye on what a town leader is. I'm not saying we should elect a mayor, I'm saying having someone who is clearly pro-town trying to create a pro-town environment is a necessity for town. By town leader I mean someone who is creating an environment where town flourishes even if the person creating that environment has their head up their ass on every single one of their reads. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
I will not unvote you until you reveal your mystery scum read. | ||
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On July 31 2012 00:49 DarthPunk wrote: I don't think he lurked on day one. His schedule and my time-zone actually synch up fairly well. and at that time lots of people are asleep and not much happens in the thread while the US is asleep  . That being said it blows my mind how hard he seems to be trying to establish his Townieness and I don't know what possible advantage it could bring.Being a clear town assets helps town hugely, it removes a townie from suspicion. Look at MTG where I played like crap (that is had no idea what the fuck was happening) but Nova_Terra still called me one of the best town players that was because it was clear that I was town even though me reads until right at the end were terrible. In one of the guides (I think it is Qotal's) it says that one of the most important things a townie can do is prove their innocence and I have read a lot of postgames in which hosts say that looking townie is something town needs to work on. I kinda wish I had played worse as scum so my meta wasn't so similar but ah well, nothing I can do about that now. I actually think my meta is really different and I think it is easy to spot the differences but me pointing them out doesn't help town read me since I am aware of my meta I could have intentionally changed it. GK: Since you have explained your reasoning ##: Unvote For those that think I am scummy I would urge you to actually see the things I am putting into the thread. I have provided good cases, I am willing to change my reads as new behaviours are exhibited and new information comes to light. I am acting in a pro-town manner in this game because I am playing with a town win con. Keir: Honestly I don;t want to lead discussion. I'd love to be able to provide cases and let others lead the talking but since no one has stepped in I am trying to provide some guidance to the other nubs here. My obsessive behaviour has lead to me reading a ton of mafia games, and related qts as well as guides and host notes. The amount of information I have ingested makes me feel pretty good about my general game knowledge and I am trying to help town with that knowledge. Every single member of town should try to establish their towniness. It is awful play to fail to do that (see our D1 mislynch of a guy who totally failed to establish himself as town and town was punished for it). I am trying to do three things: establish myself as town, create a positive town atmosphere and build good cases on people who appear scummy to me. I would argue that 100% of my behaviour falls into line with those three goals and you would do well to realize that I am working towards a town victory and not a scum one. My posting style will change again soon since I have work for the next five days, starting tomorrow. I'll try to be more active than I was in the early game but I won't be as crazy active as I have been these past few days. | ||
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