On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
Kind of. When I first read michaels posts I was like, "wtf could he be more apathetic about this lynch?!" Once I read hiro's explanation he went back to a null tell. I think the fact that Maju's reasoning for voting is purely the fact that he is doesn't like a random lynch and that he thinks michael is scum for that. However, I find a huge contradiction in what Maju is doing to michael. Maju says michaels vote is without logic (even though he attempted to justify it, much better than Maju did) and also clings to a single reason, which is what he says makes michael scum.
Sorry about the time. I'm reading 17:00 PDT, which is 5:00PM.
On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
The bolded statement is exactly the same reason I'm voting for TheMichael, to a tee.
I lean town on sinesis cause he is trying to find a way to "mod-confirmably" find scum, so much so that he has been warned for cheating. He seems to be genuinely trying to find a way to out scum.
Same with michael oddly enough. The thing about his vote on sinesis is that while the reasoning is, at best, meh, I think that his tone dictates that he actually believes in what he has written to be a real town motivated reason to vote sinesis
i just realized i replaced maju with michael when talking about the defense.
I agree with your reasoning on Maju's vote. I feel more comfortable killing him than anyone else right now.
##vote majugarzett
what did you have in mind specifically as far as managing the votes? I should say that I would support some limits because a)it stops scum from getting away with standing pat on early votes for the purpose of building/maintaining power (in lieu of any better explanation) b)helps prevent any foul ups in the way of an early voter shutting down a late vote switch
perhaps we can only vote once the day is half over?
you say you are voting for michaelthe for the same reasons I suspect Maju, but I don't see the two situations as the same thing. whether you like it or not, michael is not voting for something he finds particularly scummy. he says he is voting randomly, and provides reasons for doing so. you see the difference, yes?
Option #1- HAHA, my plan has worked. I have confused the town so much that they voted for a character not in game because they can't even spell right!
Option #2- You have proven my theory correct, even when my play has been shown to be consistant with my previous day 1's. You are mostly idiots.
There hasn't been enough quality discussion for me to change my vote. You have all though, adequately proven my point, in light of evidence that my town meta always plays this way.
The argument that I didn't random is of course possible. Obviously, the cup in front of me, but that isn't even needed on day 1.
Right now this is what I know I face: a town with embedded scum trying to move a vote to any townie. The town is useless (can't even copy paste my name) and the scum are not useless day 1 (they are pushing their agenda. On the other hand, I have my random. I wish I could vote for info, but the day 1 discussion was terrible.
Hmm.. that is not how I've been seeing this entire thing. Michaelthe is saying he'll vote randomly and gives his reasoning, but his actual vote is NOT random at all and targeting an easy townie.
This is Sinensis' post:
On July 25 2012 04:35 Sinensis wrote: My plan is rubbish and will never work now that I know the actual rules.
However, I have spotted scum, they are ghost_403. Reason: His initial post is criticizing my plan for reasons that aren't actually true. He says "someone didn't read the OP," when in reality there was nothing in the OP that said my plan couldn't work. The reason my plan will not work is not answered until iGrok posts this later in the thread:
On July 12 2012 00:40 gonzaw wrote: So town are scum in this game?
...I'll wait for Kenpachi's "I'm Townie" post on D1 and it to be considered a scumslip >_>
I take it the 3 townies and the Sunflower receive safeclaims right? (from the 4 scum names that won't be in the game)
How do exactly the masons "find" the Sunflower? By PMing you his name or something?
Yes.
That is for them and anyone who has minor wincons relating to them to know.
He is mimicking HiroPro's criticism that I didn't read the OP, when in fact I did and thoroughly. Nothing in the OP says that blue roles have access to fake claims. Especially not the DBZ rules, which are what we are using.
The truth is ghost_403 was afraid of my plan, because he is a defender of Earth. So I'm voting for him.
##vote: ghost_403
This is michaelthe's post 17 minutes later:
On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote: Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims.
A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately.
@Sinensis 1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules. 2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP.
That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid.
I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
#1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless.
#2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum.
That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2.
Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early.
##Vote: Sinensis
It seems to me that he is calling out the logic (or lack thereof) from Sinensis' post and uses it as his justification for his vote on.... Sinensis. At the end he even states that he'll "otherwise, I will be..." voting randomly implying he hasn't done so yet. Or are you telling me that the he manages to randomly roll the one person he criticizes in his post?
Yeah sorry about getting your name wrong, but you must understand that it's skeptical for me that in the very same post you say exactly why Sinensis is wrong, you also vote for him leading me to believe there was a connection to your vote and not randomness.
i wish i agreed with you heist. i'll be calling him themichael for the rest of this game because i think his attitude sucks, so him being dead would be cool.
On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
Kind of. When I first read michaels posts I was like, "wtf could he be more apathetic about this lynch?!" Once I read hiro's explanation he went back to a null tell. I think the fact that Maju's reasoning for voting is purely the fact that he is doesn't like a random lynch and that he thinks michael is scum for that. However, I find a huge contradiction in what Maju is doing to michael. Maju says michaels vote is without logic (even though he attempted to justify it, much better than Maju did) and also clings to a single reason, which is what he says makes michael scum.
My main reason for lynching Michael is actually that he says he wants to lynch for information then votes before he gets any information. Also, my vote has to be more logical than his as he claims his vote is random.
On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
So you're saying that I'm scum for wanting to lynch someone who did something scummy?
1- I'm the stupidest player ever for attacking someone, saying Im going to random, then actually picking that person IN THE SAME POST ON THE FIRST PAGE ON THE FIRST DAY. If I were scum picking a random town, I can't explain how bad this play would be. But I guess I wouldn't expect you to understand (see 2)
2- I'm correct in how bad you are all as town. You continue to prove my point, and should I die, it's at least a small victory in that I can point at how absolutely bad town is in day 1.
You are Jeice, member of the Ginyu Squad! Since you are all part of the same team, you cannot kill yourselves. As such, your power is ignored when voting someone from the Ginyu Squad.
For each Ginyu Squad member voting the same person, 1000 power is added to the vote.
You have 1500 base power level, at a maximum of 10000. You know that REDACTED is REDACTED your ally and member of the Ginyu Squad.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
It is now Night. Please submit your actions to both myself and Zephirrd by 9:00 KST
EPT
