Newbie Mini Mafia XXI - Page 5
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
First some defense against accusations toward me: Jingle: I never tried to rolehunt. You may be referring to the beginning of Day 2 where I asked people to claim roleblocked. Jingle, you of all people, should have also thought that vanilla townies also get notified roleblocked, because in the game we played together (XX) this was the case. So then, assuming vanillas get notified "Roleblocked," asking people to claim roleblocked IS NOT role hunting. Is this correct? My guess at my second time to rolehunt was when I asked Calgar whether he received the notification that he was roleblocked. Again, assuming that vanillas get roleblocked as well, this would NOT be role hunting. Evidence #1 why I think Jingle is Mafia: Jingle and I were in the game XX where vanilla townies would also be notified upon being roleblocked. I am clear that this had been talked about many times. In this game though, our mod has clarified that vanilla townies did not receive notifications for being roleblocked. HOWEVER, this clarification from mod arrived AFTER both times I asked about being roleblocked. Therefore, until this point MOD CLARIFICATION (end of page 37), Jingle should have believed that vanillas ALSO get roleblocked, which means he should not have suspected me for role hunting. This EITHER means that he knew that vanillas DO NOT get roleblocked notification (which means that he somehow communicated outside the game, i.e. QT). OR He incorrectly thinks that vanillas would get roleblocked and that I am not rolehunting, but is engineering false evidence against me. And there is NO WAY that Jingle had missed this, because he even accuses me AFTER our Mod in blue bold letters clarifies that there had been a confusion about the rules of being notified "roleblocked". | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
Jingle should have thought that vanillas also receive "roleblocked" notification (based on game XX). Therefore should NOT have thought that I was role hunting. Moreover, he continued to think I was role hunting even after our mod clarified that there was a confusion about "roleblocked" notification. I am going to the gym. Will be back in an hour or so. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
Evidence why Jingle is Jail Keeper 1. No one has counter claimed. But this is semi-open, so there may not be Jail Keeper to counter claim 2. There is no reason why Jingle should have left the breadcrumb and claim JailKeeper if he were a scum. It would be very risky and almost had to depend on absence of Jail keeper. Small caveat. Jingle's initial breadcrumb did not actually say he is a jail keeper, it said JAILER CALGAR. Course of action If he is a Jail Keeper, he should be NK'ed soon enough anyway. When I come back, I am going to outline my case against calgar, who I think should be a lynch today. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 20 2012 13:02 JingleHell wrote: Huh? So not being aware of the specific way roleblocks are being handled in this game, when I've never received notification of being roleblocked in any game, is somehow a scumtell? And this is the sum total of both your defense and your "case" against me after you "skimmed through the game from the beginning"? To quote myself after you announced your plan... Now I admit, it's shorter than I was expecting, but what the fucking fuckity fuck? Does anyone (who doesn't have several votes on them) expect me to do sufficient amounts of hallucinogens to respond to this? Jingle, in XX it was brought up multiple times that townies should claim "roleblocked". I personally brought this up at least 3 times. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 20 2012 13:06 JingleHell wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2012 13:04 YourHarry wrote: Jingle, in XX it was brought up multiple times that townies should claim "roleblocked". I personally brought this up at least 3 times. Your "evidence"? is based on a game I mostly ignored because certain players were putting my blood pressure through the roof. And the parts of the game where I was paying attention to the thread, I was paying as much attention to you personally as anyone else was. Assumption that you would have thought that vanilla townies would also receive "roleblocked" if roleblocked or jailed is one of the evidence why your accusation of me is scummy. There are other posts in this game that also clarifies this rule: + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 09:02 YourHarry wrote: Vanilla townies also get roleblocked. So do scums Also as I already mentioned previously, you STILL accused me after the mod clarified the misunderstand in the rules: Mod's clarification of the rules: + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2012 09:11 Probulous wrote: You will not be notified if you have been blocked, only that your action has failed (if you have one). My apologies I forgot to add this to the OP, I know it is a little different so if you want me to notify people if they are blocked, please say so in thread. I feel like a dumbass right now After 9 minutes, JingleHell's accusation: + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2012 09:20 JingleHell wrote: He already answered you, Harry. And Mufaa. It's worse than that, he's tried to get people to roleclaim TWICE now. Are you also going to claim that you did not read the mod's post? Or are you going to claim that after reading the mod's post you did not realize that the misunderstanding in the rules must have meant that I was not role hunting? Regardless, while I find you very scummy, I cannot get myself to push for your lynch today because no one else is counter claiming you. But keep in mind that you are making many contradictions throughout this game. While I do not think contradicting yourself is a sign of scum, it does make me wonder if you are incapable of keeping track of what you are saying despite being town. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 16:09 YourHarry wrote: First, I retracted my assertion that Fulla is definitely town. This is NOT because my logic was bad, but that I realized that the premise in which I drew the conclusion from was incorrect. After Obvious.660 flipped town, I wanted to see what kind of conclusions I could draw from it. I quickly skimmed the pages prior to the mislynch and noticed Fulla voting for Obvious.660 even though his vote did not matter. This struck me as an obvious townie action, because while scums want to execute mislynches, no scum would unnecessarily contribute to lynch a player they know will flip town. This logic still stands. Above argument is even stronger in Fulla's case because Fulla did not have previous suspicion of Obvious.660. He suddenly appeared, and without much reason, unnecessarily added his name under the list of players contributing to Obvious.660's bandwagon. Scum Fulla would not have done this, knowing that simply staying away or voting for another player would still end up in Obvious.660's death. Of course, it turns out that Fulla did not know the rules of plurality lynch and that he actually thought that his vote would make a difference. So, my argument no longer stands because my argument relied on Fulla knowing that mislynch would occur regardless of his vote. As an aside, I still think Fulla is very likely to be town. I outlined why this is the case in earlier post, but this has nothing to do with my defense. True. Is this a scum tell? Are you going to argue that scums, since they know everyone else is town, would have hard time coming up with arguments for their "fake" suspicion? If so, I would agree with it. But it would not be difficult to manufacture fake suspicions. And I personally know that making lengthy posts analyzing players' scumminess would seem very protown. Scum Harry would have spent the effort to engineer some of these "dedicated suspicion". Sometimes, I may have somewhat strong scum reads by Day 1. In this game, I had fleeting suspicions on various players which is clearly outlined by my (albeit short) posts and voting patterns. Again, you can argue that this is suspicious, but scum Harry, wanting to fit in with town, would have controlled his voting. Be strong and dedicated in your read, scum Harry would have reminded himself. Always back your voting and explain yourself, too, scum Harry, so people would read you as town. Incidentally, I do not blame people for finding me suspicious for being all over the place, often with little reason. I often get in this kind of trouble in my other games. And I agree that I should explain myself more, although this is sometimes hard because my suspicions are often based on things that are seemingly trivial stuff. So, while it would be better for the town if I explained myself better and kept myself away from other players' suspicion, if there is one thing I am NOT going to do as a town, it is to build a fake case or engineer plausible reasons that I don't necessarily believe to be true just to convince others to lynch a player I think is scum. It is a possibility. So? This is not evidence. Pick any combinations of players, and you can come up with a fiction of X, Y, and Z scum team based on bussing and buddying. [sarcasm]Yes, I knew he was the veteran!! [/sarcasm] BTW. Based on the your questions regarding the mechanics of game (before this game started), I think you are intelligent enough to avoid this kind of fallacy if you are genuinely scumhunting. Regardless, I still maintain that I do not understand why people think/thought that they found Obvious.660's list scummy. (But then, why did I vote for Obvious.660? I already explained this. I initially dismissed Obvious.660's sudden accusation of tube for changing his writing style, but I changed my mind after reading Jingle's post). But just because I think Obvious.660 is scummy, does not mean that I would find all of his posts scummy. Well, I was wrong about Obvious.660. So, I can't say that your reads have been good. But if I really wanted to spread suspicion, whether town or scum, I would do it in a much more constructive way instead of posting one liners. I almost forgot about explaining why I said that. My reason for saying that was based on the fact that scum Harry would not have a strong reason for preferring Obvious.660 mislynch over tube mislynch. And at the time, the two primary suspects projected to be lynched were tube and Obvious.660. And if tube is town, it would be hard to explain why scum Harry would suddenly change his vote to jump on a different bandwagon. Either mislynch would have suited scum Harry just fine. You? Well, technically, I am not trying to spread blame. That doesn't sound good. How about, I am trying to find scums! Did I say I was being anti-town? If I did, I would be guilty for not inciting more discussions by providing stronger reads. But I did not have any strong reads - which was reflected in my quick changes in my voting. Don't blame me for not trying, though. I will repeat: I did lack conviction. I did backtrack. I am guilty of these things. But I explained why these are not necessarily scummy. And while we disagreed on many things (? what did we disagree on?), I don't see how that makes me scum. Scum may even try to agree with others. And as for pressuring people to talk, I did some of that too. But even if I didn't, I wouldn't consider it as a strong evidence. Well, my excuse is that I intended to pressure people. But more importantly, shh... + Show Spoiler + I am town LOL LOL Wait, is this a scum tell LOL. Do you actually know that I am town and blaming my poor play for what is obviously going to turn out to be a mislynch? WOW So many reasons why I am scum. I must have made many mistakes playing scum Many of the points he made above are redundant. If you were genuinely scum hunting, you could have simply stated something like "Harry is suspicious because he lacks conviction and has changed his votes many times without reasons," instead of carefully packaging redundant "evidence" into different dressings. I accuse calgar of trying to scam town into thinking your case is actually more substantial than it is. In addition, I accuse calgar of trying to rolehunt and making a fallacy that only scums would make (assuming decent intelligence) to artificially make me look scummier. Another evidence for similar scummy behavior can be seen HERE. He did add an EDBWOP post immediately after that, but I am not sure what he was referring to. Waiting for him to clarify. He also seems to be planning ahead to guide the towns to agree on the "list of people to be lynched" to choose from. But this could just be my imagination. Calgar's accusation includes total of 10 reasons why I am scum. Many of the points he makes are redundant, so it is hard not to think that he is trying to embellish his fake suspicions against me. But more substantial evidence that he is trying to exaggerate his case against me with posts like this: Calgar wrote: 4. Your analysis of obvious’ summary quote as sounding like “like forced narration to seem pro townie” is a weak justification for piling onto the veteran. In fact, your words sound like what is quoted. There is no way that, as town, calgar would have mistakenly thought that I knew (whether or not I am scum or town!) that Obvious.660 is veteran. This may seem trivial, but this kind of logical fallacy seems impossible unless you are a scum trying to engineer fake suspicion on scum knows is town. In addition, his request that vigilante targets Perfection on night 1 is likely to be a deployment to find out who vigilante is. Of course, vigilante is not going to outright claim, but this at least allowed scums to have some idea on which players are not vigilante. Incidentally, the whole "perfection is too easy of an target" response by Jingle is also very scummy, but I am focusing on calgar now. Calgar also makes another attempt to role hunt here when he accuses me of being scum: + Show Spoiler + Calgar wrote: 4- his posting style changes after he is accused. Look at his posts 1-14 in the thread. They seem to be useless, spam, and 1-liners. Until he is accused, and all the sudden he’s dropping paragraphs. Maybe he’s blue and trying to lay low but he played it very poorly if that’s the case. Still, the most significant evidence that calgar is scum is the following. He claimed that he noticed Jingle's bread crumb immediately and knew that he was jailed by Jingle via Jingle's post on July 19, 23:23: + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 23:23 JingleHell wrote: That reads painfully like an OMGUS, Fulla. I have something relatively damning waiting to come to light, the only reason I've held off on it was to wait for it to become less circumstantial, which it has. Since Calgar commented on it, I'll present it. Although since I agreed to it, he suddenly seems wary of bringing my breadcrumb he commented on to light. Rather visible, yes? "Jailer Calgar." That's right, Calgar was jailed. Now, you might wonder what good that could do? Well, something I've been paranoid about was the possibility of a Hapa scum. It would take fairly damning evidence for me to accuse him without it looking like an extension of our dislike for each other, even though we've kept votes off each other throughout. Well, if we assume townie, with Calgar blocked and protected, the most obvious target for an NK would be Hapa. Especially since there's usually not that many blue roles in newbie games, with Vet flipped, and me obviously on Calgar, Hapa should have been fair game. Instead, they went for Evul. Two possible values for this. One, it could look like I was breadcrumbing an NK, putting suspicion on me, but since scum can talk in QT, that would just be arrogant and foolish. Also, if Hapahauli was scum, they obviously wouldn't NK him, so they just killed a random dude. Since I posted heavy suspicions on Calgar for his post about vigi hit on Perfection after that, Hapa has stepped in to defend him, posting copious amounts of WIFOM. Earlier that day, Calgar finds out (though incorrectly) that vanilla townies also receives roleblock notification: My post explaining the incorrect rules: + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 09:02 YourHarry wrote: Vanilla townies also get roleblocked. So do scums Calgar's post acknowledging the fake rule, then retracting his accusation that I was role hunting: + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 09:05 calgar wrote: EBWOP I see your point, I retract #12. So it is clear from above that calgar accepted my incorrect explanation of the rule that vanilla townies upon being roleblocked would received the notification. But then, later he admits that he did not receive the notification: + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2012 09:07 calgar wrote: I didn't receive a notification. Under what conditions is someone notified if they are RBed/Jailed? Townie calgar, then, when told that Jingle had jailed him on N1 should have wondered why he did not received the notification from the mod. In fact, calgar should have accused and suspected Jingle based on the information that he did not receive the roleblocked notification from the mod. It is very difficult for me to accept that townie would have missed this. In fact, it is somewhat hard for me to accept that even scum would not have said anything about this, of course, unless calgar and JingleHell are scums together. But one scum at a time. I am not sure 100%, but I am sure as I have ever been for a long time (without relying on power role's help) that calgar is scum. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
Same for perfection. Let me know. And everyone else, I hope you guys read my post and let me know if you have any questions. My conviction is very strong, and I believe what I said in the last few posts should make sense... | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
What I meant by caveats was that it is possible that there is no jail keeper, though the question still stands as to whether scums would have gambled. But also (and I just realized) maybe they have the roleblocker so maybe they thought they could have confirmed Jingle being the "JailKeeper" by Jingle reporting on who he roleblocked to match the people who actually received roleblocked notification (assuming my initial interpretation of the rule). And "JAILER CALGAR" in itself is sort of suspicious. It almost sounds like, "Jail Calgar" or something. Why not breadcrumb something like "calgar jailed," which would be clear. Ambiguity in breadcrumb allows scums to change their "meaning" of breadcrumbs as circumstances later change. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 20 2012 22:22 Hapahauli wrote: This is JingleHell's 4th game. His beliefs on roleblock notification aren't only influenced by game XX. I suggest looking at what the rules were regarding roleblock notification in his previous two games. In Jingle's 1st game XVIII, unfortunately whether vanilla townies get roleblocked does not get mentioned, at least in the rules. In Jingle's 2nd game XIX, this is also mentioned by the mod. I didn't not read the whole thread to see it is mentioned again by other players. He died on night 1 though, but I assume he probably read the list of the roles. Whether vanillas get roleblocked is not specifically mentioned, and but the writing of the rules should be reasonably interpreted as everyone getting roleblocked notification - as it does not say only power roles get the notification. Still, there is some room for misunderstanding, if this was Jingle's only game. + Show Spoiler + Skilled Bullshitter (Role Blocker) You are a skilled thread derailer, you have the ability to take any thread on TL and subtly derail it with complete bullshit. So subtle that no one notices, but effective enough that no one in the thread can have a coherent conversation and spend the entire night trying to refute the total nonsensical bullshit that you brought up. Each night you may choose one target of your choice to bullshit. That player will not be able to perform any actions for the night. Your target will be informed they were roleblocked. Roleblocks do not block passive abilities. Jingle's 3rd game, XX, it had been mentioned ample of times by me and other players that vanillas also get roleblock notifications. But it is also mentioned by the moderator Radfield (I bolded the part specifying this): + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 05:27 Radfield wrote: Things to keep in mind: *The Godfather is immune to tracking. *The godfather will return as Innocent, and a miller with return as Guilty to detective checks. *The Miller will show up to tracking as visiting a random player. *Mafia players will be tracked to the target of their roles, not to the kill target. In the event a mafia player does NOT use his role, he will be tracked to the kill target. *Players will be notified if they are roleblocked, whether they have a role or not. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 20 2012 23:15 JingleHell wrote: Dear Harry, Remember this? Or was I casually setting up my own defense back then when I posted something humorously self-aggrandizing to explain missing that? Before I knew roles? If you'd like to make a case, please feel free to do so. Currently you're just making my head hurt. You should explain yourself a bit better. It took me a couple of seconds to understand what you are trying to say. The "easter egg" you are referring to is our mod's request that everyone type "I will be active". So, since you missed that part of mod's request, I think what you are saying is that you are likely to also miss other tidbits about the rules. But you also say "I was just going to /in and go back to dig out the juicy bits" indicating your plan to read the details of the rules after you sign up for the game. So, if you actually do go back and read the details of the rules after you sign up in your previous games, you should have known that vanillas also get roleblocked. I am not saying you are 100% lying about not knowing the rules regarding vanillas getting roleblocked notifications. I am just providing evidence that support the possibility of you having known the rules and lying about it. And as I provided earlier, even if you didn't know the rules prior to this game, you should have realized the implications of mod's clarification to mean that I was not rolehunting. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
Regarding your accusation based on meta game: Scum Harry would have tried to match previous meta. Town Harry did not care to try to match his meta. Maybe I will regret this. Defense: + Show Spoiler + Haph. Regards to meta. While I believe that meta is very useful in determining town/scum alignments, I do not think it's useful to simply compare the length of the posts. Scum Harry does know that people like you, jingle, and hopeless would keep his eyes on my posts to compare meta from our previous game. I would be motivated to emulate the types of posts I made in Newbie XX, to mislead you guys that I am, yet again, town. And it would be easy to do - especially, if the length of the posts is the one thing I need to emulate. Look for my motivation of the posts - which I admit is lacking - because I am not sure who is suspicious. But in my defense, I did read every post in this thread. Regarding your accusation of my voting pattern: Scum Harry would have controlled his voting. I argue that it is not that difficult to do. Another possibility is that I suck so much being scum. The defense taken from reply against calgar: + Show Spoiler + True. Is this a scum tell? Are you going to argue that scums, since they know everyone else is town, would have hard time coming up with arguments for their "fake" suspicion? If so, I would agree with it. But it would not be difficult to manufacture fake suspicions. And I personally know that making lengthy posts analyzing players' scumminess would seem very protown. Scum Harry would have spent the effort to engineer some of these "dedicated suspicion". Sometimes, I may have somewhat strong scum reads by Day 1. In this game, I had fleeting suspicions on various players which is clearly outlined by my (albeit short) posts and voting patterns. Again, you can argue that this is suspicious, but scum Harry, wanting to fit in with town, would have controlled his voting. Be strong and dedicated in your read, scum Harry would have reminded himself. Always back your voting and explain yourself, too, scum Harry, so people would read you as town. Incidentally, I do not blame people for finding me suspicious for being all over the place, often with little reason. I often get in this kind of trouble in my other games. And I agree that I should explain myself more, although this is sometimes hard because my suspicions are often based on things that are seemingly trivial stuff. So, while it would be better for the town if I explained myself better and kept myself away from other players' suspicion, if there is one thing I am NOT going to do as a town, it is to build a fake case or engineer plausible reasons that I don't necessarily believe to be true just to convince others to lynch a player I think is scum. Hapha's further suspicion of me. [quote]Hapha wrote: Suspicious attitude on Calgar/Jingle: [QUOTE]On July 20 2012 01:05 YourHarry wrote: OH WOW. I THINK WE HAVE TO KILL JINGLE HELL........ JINGLE WHY DID YOU DRAW MAFIA.......... I WILL BE BACK LATER TO CLARIFY MY THOUGHTS[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On July 20 2012 01:09 YourHarry wrote: But....... Calgar today, i think. Jingle tomorrow maybe.[/QUOTE] I am not sure why you find that suspicious, but if I had to guess it had something to do with of meta since I don't recall posting in that style in XX. After my suspicion of Jingle, I did outline what I was thinking: + Show Spoiler + Jingle, I am suspicious for pointing out the reason why scums targeted Evul. I also think that targeting Evul does not make sense AT ALL. Which brings me back to my third reason that I wanted to talk about earlier. Evul was about to get replaced out and there was no hint that he was a power role, so why target Evul? The only other explanation is: they targeted Evul to strictly to shift suspicion on other players in this game. I also, like Jingle, thought that Hapha or calgar would be NK'ed, at least targeted. Not only people had strong town reads on these two players, on Day 1, which would make them good targets. But also from my perspective, I thought scum would try to target Hapha or calgar to support Day 2 lynch in me. This is because they were the two players who expressed strong suspicion of me on Day 1, so the story could be written that scum Harry wanted one of them dead. Combining these two things, even if Evul wanted to shift suspicion on other players, I thought it would still be better for scums to target Hapha, for example, to strongly push for Harry lynch. But the other explanation, posed by Evul, is original - that both Hapha AND calgar are scums. And scums thinking in this way, then, their night action would make sense if they can somehow establish that Evul NK = Hapha Calgar scum. Of course, I am not denying that townie is also capable of this kind of thinking. But I think this still renders some evidence that Jingle is more likely to be scum than before because his way of interpreting Evul's death makes sense in terms of mafia's motive. In addition, Hapha, do you think this game matches Jingle's meta last game? As for your second quote, are you suspecting me because even though I thought that Jingle was mafia, I wanted someone else (calgar) lynched today? My answer is that, while above spoiler is why I began to suspect Jingle again, I was still thinking things through. I openly and uninhibitedly posted my suspicions and plans of actions. [quote]Hapha wrote: "Desperation" to cast suspicion on JingleHell: [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=39#762]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=39#762[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=38#755]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=38#755[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=40#781]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=40#781[/url] [/quote] While it is true that I think getting out of a lynch today is going to be very challenging, those are not desperation posts. In your first link, you can see the conflict in my thinking between suspicions on Jingle and lack of counter-claims. Your second link and third link further expresses my suspicion of Jingle and calgar. And although my actual case on Jingle and calgar came hours later, after I finished the re-read, this was what was going through my head when I was asking questions and casting suspicions on Jingle. And they would seem desperate if you have already made up your mind that I am scum making these posts. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 20 2012 23:55 YourHarry wrote: Hapha, I would like to summarize my previous defenses for people to see and to further discuss them Regarding your accusation based on meta game: Scum Harry would have tried to match previous meta. Town Harry did not care to try to match his meta. Maybe I will regret this. Defense: + Show Spoiler + Haph. Regards to meta. While I believe that meta is very useful in determining town/scum alignments, I do not think it's useful to simply compare the length of the posts. Scum Harry does know that people like you, jingle, and hopeless would keep his eyes on my posts to compare meta from our previous game. I would be motivated to emulate the types of posts I made in Newbie XX, to mislead you guys that I am, yet again, town. And it would be easy to do - especially, if the length of the posts is the one thing I need to emulate. Look for my motivation of the posts - which I admit is lacking - because I am not sure who is suspicious. But in my defense, I did read every post in this thread. Regarding your accusation of my voting pattern: Scum Harry would have controlled his voting. I argue that it is not that difficult to do. Another possibility is that I suck so much being scum. The defense taken from reply against calgar: + Show Spoiler + True. Is this a scum tell? Are you going to argue that scums, since they know everyone else is town, would have hard time coming up with arguments for their "fake" suspicion? If so, I would agree with it. But it would not be difficult to manufacture fake suspicions. And I personally know that making lengthy posts analyzing players' scumminess would seem very protown. Scum Harry would have spent the effort to engineer some of these "dedicated suspicion". Sometimes, I may have somewhat strong scum reads by Day 1. In this game, I had fleeting suspicions on various players which is clearly outlined by my (albeit short) posts and voting patterns. Again, you can argue that this is suspicious, but scum Harry, wanting to fit in with town, would have controlled his voting. Be strong and dedicated in your read, scum Harry would have reminded himself. Always back your voting and explain yourself, too, scum Harry, so people would read you as town. Incidentally, I do not blame people for finding me suspicious for being all over the place, often with little reason. I often get in this kind of trouble in my other games. And I agree that I should explain myself more, although this is sometimes hard because my suspicions are often based on things that are seemingly trivial stuff. So, while it would be better for the town if I explained myself better and kept myself away from other players' suspicion, if there is one thing I am NOT going to do as a town, it is to build a fake case or engineer plausible reasons that I don't necessarily believe to be true just to convince others to lynch a player I think is scum. Hapha's further suspicion of me. I am not sure why you find that suspicious, but if I had to guess it had something to do with of meta since I don't recall posting in that style in XX. After my suspicion of Jingle, I did outline what I was thinking: + Show Spoiler + Jingle, I am suspicious for pointing out the reason why scums targeted Evul. I also think that targeting Evul does not make sense AT ALL. Which brings me back to my third reason that I wanted to talk about earlier. Evul was about to get replaced out and there was no hint that he was a power role, so why target Evul? The only other explanation is: they targeted Evul to strictly to shift suspicion on other players in this game. I also, like Jingle, thought that Hapha or calgar would be NK'ed, at least targeted. Not only people had strong town reads on these two players, on Day 1, which would make them good targets. But also from my perspective, I thought scum would try to target Hapha or calgar to support Day 2 lynch in me. This is because they were the two players who expressed strong suspicion of me on Day 1, so the story could be written that scum Harry wanted one of them dead. Combining these two things, even if Evul wanted to shift suspicion on other players, I thought it would still be better for scums to target Hapha, for example, to strongly push for Harry lynch. But the other explanation, posed by Evul, is original - that both Hapha AND calgar are scums. And scums thinking in this way, then, their night action would make sense if they can somehow establish that Evul NK = Hapha Calgar scum. Of course, I am not denying that townie is also capable of this kind of thinking. But I think this still renders some evidence that Jingle is more likely to be scum than before because his way of interpreting Evul's death makes sense in terms of mafia's motive. In addition, Hapha, do you think this game matches Jingle's meta last game? As for your second quote, are you suspecting me because even though I thought that Jingle was mafia, I wanted someone else (calgar) lynched today? My answer is that, while above spoiler is why I began to suspect Jingle again, I was still thinking things through. I openly and uninhibitedly posted my suspicions and plans of actions. While it is true that I think getting out of a lynch today is going to be very challenging, those are not desperation posts. In your first link, you can see the conflict in my thinking between suspicions on Jingle and lack of counter-claims. Your second link and third link further expresses my suspicion of Jingle and calgar. And although my actual case on Jingle and calgar came hours later, after I finished the re-read, this was what was going through my head when I was asking questions and casting suspicions on Jingle. And they would seem desperate if you have already made up your mind that I am scum making these posts. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 20 2012 23:50 JingleHell wrote: I have an idea. You keep coming up with crazy theories, and if anyone has the balls to bring them up again after you flip red, I'll defend myself in the process of getting them lynched too? Deal? Don't worry, that won't happen. I promise. I did propose what seems like a crazy theory, but I clearly provided evidence in why I think this theory may be true. About 8 hours before deadline, I think it's about time for me to claim: vanilla townie | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 21 2012 00:05 JingleHell wrote: By the way, in case anyone thinks I'm just being dismissive... If anyone feels the need, and has the ability, feel free to translate Harry's "case" against me into something I can understand without controlled substances, and I'll happily refute it. So far, the parts I've understood best have been the ones where he's suggested I'm involved in some overly complex, grandiose plot because my memory isn't perfect. What do you think about my case on calgar? Him not suspecting you even though he didn't get "roleblocked" notification from the mod? | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
I hope if I die, I am a miller, which would be better for town than if I were NOT a miller. | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 21 2012 00:13 JingleHell wrote: I don't understand your "case" on Calgar, either, actually. It seems to require the same sort of mental yoga that made me sprain my cerebral cortex trying to read your accusation against me. I will summarize it here: 1. Calgar accepted my incorrect explanation of the rule that vanilla townies also get roleblocked notifications 2. Calgar believed Jingle was the JailKeeper and that Jingle jailed Calgar on N1 3. Calgar did not receive "roleblocked" notification => One of these do not make sense. When calgar realized that Jingle jailed calgar, he have tried to confirm the rule OR not believe Jingle's claim that calgar was jailed. Calgar does ask the moderator the conditions of roleblock notification, but only much later when I was interrogating him - when my intention of asking the question becomes reasonably clear. Of course, calgar's "I did not receive any notification" is the perfect answer. Scum calgar SHOULD have said that "Yes, I got the roleblocked notification". But, there were minutes of pause between my first asking calgar whether he received the notification and his answer. Unfortunately, this fact makes my case against him weaker, but I do think that calgar clarified the rules with the mod via PM or QT which is why I asked: + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2012 09:14 YourHarry wrote: If someone asks a question to mod in QT or via PM, would you answer them via QT or PM? | ||
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