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Holy shit wazzle!
We fucked up big.
I was so excited all day to come back from work and see that we had gotten a scum but instead we lynched our own JK?? This blows. I feel like the case against him was strong but I don't understand why he didn't caim to try to save himself, I bet he wishes he had two lvies now. I wish he did too.
So, we messed up big time here. Its okay, we can still recover and make a big comeback. I have been re-reading Anacletus' filter and I suggest you all do the same. Remember, everything he said was said by a confirmed townie. He may not have been right but at least we know his motivations.
This is what I have found of his:
On June 29 2012 07:12 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 07:05 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 06:48 JingleHell wrote:
So, does anyone besides me even want to make suggestions? Should we go in alphabetical order until someone actually posts?
If that's the case, Anacletus, explain your actions! You've been inconsistent, claiming a role that isn't in the game, without knowing what it is or if one is in the game!
Why would you false roleclaim? Why does your name look like Analfetus? The FoS shall rest upon YOU for now, until people decide to actually post! Bah, you always know how to hit me where it hurts! I regrettably admit to taking a rusted bike chain and strangling the sheriff. But if there's one thing that I didn't do, I didn't shoot the god damn deputy. See, that's the sort of thing that makes me wonder more seriously. You could easily be trying to pre-establish an alibi for any scum behavior. You let me take the lead, but when I started pushing for participation, you jumped in with a weak suggestion, and now this. It's obviously rather weak as far as tells go, but it's more than I have on any of the people who aren't posting. And Myles, what could I possibly be distracting from at this point? I'm the only one wanting to find these scum and get rid of them. Anacletus suggested we just start hunting, so I started hunting. If you want to contribute, maybe you should chime in on policy, or announce yourself, or do basically anything besides a low content post that won't help the situation. JingleHell makes some extremely valid points. Myles, why are you suddenly trying to defend me? Are you trying to set up and alibi for yourself for if I get killed and turn town?
to begin with we find this little tidbit, I hadn't remembered this exchange but I find it interesting. Myles did exactly what Anacletus said and now we see that Anacletus was town...something to think about certainly.
And here we get a town read from a confirmed townie, well done JH
On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying On June 29 2012 11:41 Anacletus wrote:
I am not sharing my thoughts as of yet, I don't think that that is in my best interest to do so. Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes.
Here are his scum reads:
On June 30 2012 05:23 Anacletus wrote:Yeah, I'm not mafia. You guys are mainly voting for me because I said I had reads that I wasn't sharing. I did share what I thought later, I think that the people who talk a lot early are mainly townies, however those that come in to bandwagon voting seem very suspicious to me. Both of them really haven't supplied much information at all and just voted for me after several others did.
Intact and Fencer I'm watching you. Mostly you Fencer, mostly you.
Those are all of his reads with analysis in them. I think we should take a good hard look at what he has to say, remember, he may not be right but his motives were.
@Anacletus: I'm sorry man. Happy birthday and don't worry, we'll still win this.
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EBWOP: in the first real paragraph I meant to write claim and lives
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On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote:
Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think?
I'll go back and look at it, it isn't fair to you to call it our case though. I noticed and mentioned the stupid play, you made a real case.
I would urge you to go back and re-read my case on Fencer, I think it is even stronger now that Anacletus has flipped green.
I'll post my thoughts about the wonder when I have re-read your case and his filter.
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On July 01 2012 08:00 ghost_403 wrote:
NrGmonk will be replaced.
But I thought that replacements were for chumps.
Who is joining in?
@whoever joins: start posting some real things: Monk hasn't given us anything and we need more people posting, whether town or scum. We can't win if everyone decides to lurk.
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On July 01 2012 08:04 Myles wrote:
So I guess we're not going to wait until day to discuss stuff?
Why would we? Sorry if this got talked about earlier when I get home from work I do my best to catch up but I could have easily missed this.
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On July 01 2012 08:07 Myles wrote:^ Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:27 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On July 01 2012 06:25 JingleHell wrote:
Well, I was right. Analfetus was innocent. GG.nore, my friend.
Perhaps we should contemplate who looks shady now, in light of the new information. I think we should save discussion for morning. Posting our thoughts during the night just gives the PBUs more information to consider when picking their night hit. Because of what this guy wrote.
Well that is dumb, more information is always better for town. Seriously why would anyone say that? He isn't scummy enough for me too make a case on him but if we have a DT that wouldn't be a bad night check just to make sure he is dumb and not scum.
On July 01 2012 08:09 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:03 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote:
Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think? I'll go back and look at it, it isn't fair to you to call it our case though. I noticed and mentioned the stupid play, you made a real case. I would urge you to go back and re-read my case on Fencer, I think it is even stronger now that Anacletus has flipped green. I'll post my thoughts about the wonder when I have re-read your case and his filter. I still think Fencer is scummy, too, which is why I mentioned the Hopeless vote on him, as it makes one of them look less scummy if the other flips, but was done in a way that it didn't overcommit the vote, either. However, if I have to take two people who are similarly scummy, I'm going to end up dropping a vote on the one who seems more dangerous, which currently feels like Hopeless.
I think you are right about Hopeless, he does seem scummy. I'm just not sure that he seems more scummy than Fencer. I'm not too comfortable with how hard it was to get the ball rolling on the fencer case, he seemed really scummy and as momentum built only Hopeless joined in the case. He seems like he was trying to get in there early enough to seem town but was real happy to not nail Anacletus.
Thinking about this more I wonder if a Fencer+Hopeless+someone else scumteam is possible? What are your thoughts?
If that is true the third scum is almost 100% in the Anacletus voters, of those I would look hardest at Intact since that is who Anacletus voted for. I don't think it would be Umlat since he mad the first vote and called out Fencer on his flippy floppy, and I know it is not me. I think it is more likely to be one of the middle guys: BLinD-RawR, BobTheLob, Intact and iamperfection. I would look long and hard at Bob as well, he hasn't posted a damn thing.
ARGH! I'm just frustrated now, I was so sure we had scum when we lynched Anacletus.
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Yeah, my bad. This thread is usually so inactive it doesn't matter (let's work on that guys, we can't win if we lurk and there must be town among the lurkers)
Though I don't like to limit my options those three seem scummy, I'm happy to start digging.
Off to filter land I go. Also to grab a bite to eat, I'll be back in a minute.
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On July 01 2012 08:44 Myles wrote:
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning.
When JH did it there was no discussion and he was trying to start it, I disagree with his methods but not his goals.
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Between
On June 29 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Let's suppose many people neglect to post...if we can't get a decent case going, are we cool to lynch lurkers?
Everyone on board?
and
On June 29 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 07:19 JingleHell wrote:
Actually, if many people neglect to post, it's the worst time to lynch lurkers, so why would you suggest it, Myles? Mathematically, if 6 lurk, then, if we assume 100% of the scum are also amongst the lurkers, we're already at a coinflip to get a scum. Very true. At that point its useless to policy lurkers. Now is the time to get this crap out of the way though. I do think we need some kind of policy to follow since the game is majority Lynch. Let's figure out our options and get the scumhunt on.
something happened. Something more than the passage of 23 minutes. Looking into the thread it seems that it was JH and his actually bad post that convinced Myles to change his mind. See a 50% chance of hitting scum on d1 is good. I would take that on any d1 since clearly leaving us to our own devices didn't work very well. Since all that happened to change Myles' mind in thread was that one poorly thought out post I wonder if there wasn't something outside the thread that was posted, maybe in scum qt? No proof but something I'm taking into account.
He follows this with a lot of useless one-liners and non-committal attacks against both Fencer and Anacletus. After wading through the mess he has made of his posting I also found this:
On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically.  It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion.
where he says things that sound townie but doesn't do anything with those things.
The next post I want you to pay attention to is this one: On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710
which brought my attention on to our hopeless friend. From this point on he knows he is being watched and his posts change slightly. After this point Wonder never hard defends himself, instead he stops posting one-liners and tries to look more active, it looks to me like a guy who knows he is under suspicsion and wants to change that. That is not a town trait. When one of us comes under suspicsion our goal should be to act in a pro-town way to hunt scum, instead 1der has posted in a pro 1der way and not attempted to hunt scum at all.
So, if that hasn't onvinced you, and I'm not sure it should I would like to give you the crowning jewl in the hopeless1der is a hopeless scum player case.
On July 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote:The biggest scumtell I've had so far is the whole mislynch vs no lynch. To that I submit the following: WORST CASE SCENARIO No Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +
Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
No Lynch, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 8 Town, 3 Scum (37.5% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch
(Mis)Lynch Day1 + Show Spoiler +Day1: 9 Town, 3 Scum (33.333% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch)
Lynch Town, Mafia hit on town
Day2: 7 Town, 3 Scum (42.8% Chance of hitting scum with random lynch) Conclusion: Mislynch Bad. No Lynch Worse. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
SNIP
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. WTF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS WHY AM I DEFENDING MYSELF TO YOU??
Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
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On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities?
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EBWOP: similar not simlar. Why can't I spell today?
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On July 01 2012 09:45 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:42 BobTheLob wrote:On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities? Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said. Actually, we've sparred back and forth a bit, too, we voted different directions on D1. We see similar things and build off of eachother's cases because out of everyone here, we're the only ones that aren't taking individual posts and comparing them to a newbie guide.
Are you using a guide? I've been working based off of what I have read in other mafia threads, I did a bit of research before playing since I was scared as hell.
I don't really get what you mean about how we'd be a double lynch. I have trouble seeing why after I flipped green or you flipped green anyone would lynch the other one. I you flip red I guess I will look bad though, I guess I'll hope to hell that I'm right about you and that you are one of us.
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EBWOP: I'm assuming its obvious but Jingle pretty much answered Bob's question for me as well. I have to bounce my ideas off someone and since we don't have a town qt I've got to go with the only other guy in the thread and hope to hell he is green. Thankfully he has only done green feeling things for the last little while and am more confident of him now.
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On July 01 2012 10:15 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 10:12 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:45 JingleHell wrote:On July 01 2012 09:42 BobTheLob wrote:On July 01 2012 09:37 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
Can we talk about the piece that I bolded and put in italics? You seriously think the two most active townies are scum? If we were scum this game would be over. There is no one else in town who is constantly building cases and working to promote a town agenda anywhere near as much as me or JH. You seriously are worried because we have simlar pro town mentalities? Yes I am. You to are the most active right now and as I said, we're ALL following what you guys are doing. I didn't say you were scum I said that it'd odd that you two right out of the gate are helping each other and building on what the other said. Actually, we've sparred back and forth a bit, too, we voted different directions on D1. We see similar things and build off of eachother's cases because out of everyone here, we're the only ones that aren't taking individual posts and comparing them to a newbie guide. Are you using a guide? I've been working based off of what I have read in other mafia threads, I did a bit of research before playing since I was scared as hell. I don't really get what you mean about how we'd be a double lynch. I have trouble seeing why after I flipped green or you flipped green anyone would lynch the other one. I you flip red I guess I will look bad though, I guess I'll hope to hell that I'm right about you and that you are one of us. I was saying that if we were scum, tying ourselves together for no reason would be suicidal. I read the guides, and then threw out everything I read except for the mentality type stuff, because frankly, it's all opinions on the best way to metagame other than that, which is just a headache waiting to happen. I know I'm town, and I'm reasonably confident you are. What do you think of Myles in light of his jumping to defend Hopeless after we started looking at a case against him?
oh, okay that makes a lot more sense. I don't like him but I'm still looking into him, maybe its awful town play? I'm not sure I'm still building the case. I also think I'll just re-link my Fencer case since he is still scummy.
Why do you think Bob chose to come out of the woodwork now? He posted that huge thing with no reads in it and a lot of words. I'd love your opinion.
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The case on Myles (or Myles to go before I sleep):
The first page of our young hero's filter is made up of one line posts which range from soft defense of Anacletus
On June 29 2012 07:08 Myles wrote:
JingleHell, you sure are yippity. And creating quite the distraction...
So soft you might call it flaccid, to talking about what a newb he is
On June 29 2012 21:07 Myles wrote:
Considering this is my first game, I hadn't put any thought into the idea that JH and Anacletus working together to create misinformation. Though, one of my first instincts when JH took the lead, but didn't really send us in any particular direction other than witch hunts and suggested we not take a very defined course of action, was that it seemed like he was trying to look like he was contributing without really doing so.
I see Anacletus in a similar vein. That 6 out of his first 7 posts were jokes threw up red flags for me, and though his latest posts have been relevant and worthwhile for the most part, I'm still a bit leery.
As for lurkers, Monk has posted twice, once to defend himself from JH random accusations. BobTheLob has posted twice, neither time saying too much. Blind-Rawr hasn't posted much either, but his posts have been pretty good. Besides that, everyone else has been pretty active.
Now back to work.
I've already made it clear how I feel about claiming newbie in a newb game, I won't say more on that subject. You'll see in the above post two soft defenses of town players (JH and Anacletus), I don't trust a soft defense it is too easy for mafia to completely ignore the player being looked at and instead talk about something different when the player flips green (which mafia obviously knows they will) the soft defender looks fine since he had nothing to do with killing a townie.
This post:
On July 01 2012 02:29 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:09 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
Myles: You're right to a certain extent. I was looking at your and Monk's contributions specifically because you were the only two not to have cast a vote. However, just because two players have the same post count doesn't mean they're making the same contribution. The vast majority of your posts so far have been filler that haven't added in any meaningful way to the conversation. For the record, I don't have a scummy read on you, I just feel like you could be contributing more with your posting.
JH: Less nuttiness, and more posts like that, please! I for one am persuaded. I still have a scummy read on Anacletus, but actively arguing in favor of a mislynch over no lynch at all is far scummier play than he's demonstrated so far.
##Unvote Anacletus
##Vote Hopeless1der
My read on Anacletus isn't changed at this point, though; I still think he's got a good chance of flipping scum. I'm a bit concerned that there might be too many players who will be inactive between now and the lynch, in which case I'll be switching my vote back to Anacletus to prevent a no-lynch. Nearly all of my posts have been about policy or reads, or a question about policy. I still don't see how the are non-contributing. I still wonder why Bob is flying so low below the radar when he's posted nothing expect to bandwagon on Anacletusm, which everyone seemed to ignore.
really threw me for a loop since up to this point at least half of Myles posts have been about silly things like set-up and jokes, why claim something that just isn;t true? Maybe he was hoping that no one would read his filter? Well I'm hoping that you will since that is what we need to do to build cases and find scum.
Here Myles lies again
On July 01 2012 04:42 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 04:20 Anacletus wrote:
Also, why would you hang someone on their birthday? That's just wrong! It's also irrelevant. And I realize there's little someone can say to defend themselves in situations like these, but disappearing for nearly a full day when the FoS is on you doesn't seem to add up. You've given one read on JH, everything else you said was general observations on early mafia games. And your post about people not voting thinking your town doesn't make sense either. If the non-voters were mafia(thus knowing you're town) they would hop on the bandwagon since it was already going strong, and thus not be more suspicious then anyone else.
When in fact Anacletus had given three reads as I have shown earlier. Maybe he was exaggerating for dramatic effect? Its possible and if that was the case I wouldn't hold it against him.
Do you know what Myles had to say about the fact that we mislynched our JK? Do you? No? Well let me let him tell you:
On July 01 2012 06:14 Myles wrote:
It's only 17:00 EDT...
that is it, his first post after the night post in its entirety. Seriously? I was pissed, others were disappointed and Myles just looked at his watch.
I've bolded a key phrase in this next post
On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
I'd like you to think about that, he hopes he has explained himself enough to get the benefit of the doubt. Not that he hopes to prove that he is town or that someone else is scum he just wants to have a respite from being attacked, he wants us to lay off of him and give him a break even though his posts were scummy. He wants the benefit of the doubt but hasn't proved why he should get it.
I realize I'm just tooting my own horn here but I thnk people might have missed this
On July 01 2012 08:48 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 08:44 Myles wrote:
Well, you're reasoning of hopeless being suspicious because his voting someone else after Anacletus was all but secured is something I don't agree with. I don't think that's much to go one because Fencer revealed himself to be pretty scummy with his spammy offtopic posts and haphazard voting. I mean, you basically did the same thing by putting an early FoS on Anacletus then changing to focus once other people jumped in. I don't think something like that is very damning. When JH did it there was no discussion and he was trying to start it, I disagree with his methods but not his goals. I know, and I agreed with that before. It was a valid reason to change focus and I think hopeless read on Fencer was as well.
read the whole thing. Myles says that he JH did the same thing as fencer so it isn't scummy and, when I mentioned why JH did that Myles was quick to back off while citing a previous agreement with the reasoning. He tried to make JH lay off of Fencer but somehow forgot that he has to remain consistent with his own opinions.
So read this and make up your own mind, why is Myles posting this way?Is he just stopping here to watch this thread fill up with spam or does he know whose town this is and Myles has to go?
Pre-edit: I really wanted to make that Robert Frost reference but I don't think it was very good, ah well.
JH: okay I'll assume Bob is being useless and not scummy right now. I'm still keeping an eye on him though.
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I'm out for a while, I'll be back later tonight.
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Hey guys!
Fuck this who is going to work on cases with mee noow? JH was mah buddy.
(SORRY ABOUT SAYING DUMB THINGS IF I DO, drunk for canada day and the beerrs are saying the dumb things, not me)
So JH is dead...WE need too acctually startt working together since I can't just work with myself on this one and I can't jsut carry town all the way.
You know what the lasst thing my man JH Said in this thread?? He was all up on Hopeless. See this here
On July 01 2012 22:10 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 13:46 Hopeless1der wrote:On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:
SNIP
Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
You've lost me Promethelax. My statement pertained to No Lynch and Mislynch (intentional or otherwise). Are you saying No Lynch is preferable? Because I'm saying Mislynch is preferable. Oh wait, when you cast your vote: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. Your actions agree with my conclusion, whether you agree with the deduction itself or not. My 'non-committal' posts (at least towards Anacletus) were in fact a good read by me to identify someone being bandwagoned for a weak case. I can't decide if you and JH tunneling me so far is actually scummy or not, but don't for one goddamn second think I don't know what I'm doing. If you start basing your defense off an attack, it looks like an OMGUS. You should start by defending points against yourself first, then, if you feel there's a case, turn it around second.
was JH tell scum to sit down and shut up. JH wasn't going to take no OMGUS shit from scum and neither should we so, based on his readsand the ccase he and I made yesterday I'm feeling very Red feelings from Hopeless.
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On July 01 2012 13:46 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 09:33 Promethelax wrote:
SNIP
Let's look at his conclusion: it is bad to have a no lynch because if we kill of a town statistics suggests our next random lynch will be more likely to hit scum. Remember before this game started I said I was sorry if I was dumber than two rocks making love? I now present you with one of the two rocks required. Hopeless is either scum or playing an anti-town game because he has no idea what he is doing. Since the rest of us newbs figured it out I would guess it is the former rather than the latter.
You've lost me Promethelax. My statement pertained to No Lynch and Mislynch (intentional or otherwise). Are you saying No Lynch is preferable? Because I'm saying Mislynch is preferable. Oh wait, when you cast your vote: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. Your actions agree with my conclusion, whether you agree with the deduction itself or not. My 'non-committal' posts (at least towards Anacletus) were in fact a good read by me to identify someone being bandwagoned for a weak case. I can't decide if you and JH tunneling me so far is actually scummy or not, but don't for one goddamn second think I don't know what I'm doing.
Nonono no, no. I'm saying your conclusion was a townie one but your reasoning was a dumb as a rock one. If you know what you are doing why diid you make a post that says that a mislynch is better for us than a no lynch??? A scum lynch is better for us and wee should get one, I thought I was lynching scum when I lynched Analfist and didn't think we'd mislynch. You said a mislynch is good for us which is obviously isn't.
Lynchinf SCummy sccum scum=good
Lynching green townie playing stupid=bad
thats is it man, simple.
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On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer)
Gin and tognic now!
If JH dead I die next nigght unless medic. I'm only town taking lead, I think scum look at me and JH, ccoinflip lands on a crumb so it comms up JH. They decide kill me nixt night.
Still think reads good: JH and I on same path.
FoS Hopless and Myless and little bet Fencer too.
I lik eBob now, he is drinky too! But too lurkey.
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On July 02 2012 21:43 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 08:30 Hopeless1der wrote:On July 02 2012 08:09 Fencer710 wrote:On July 02 2012 07:24 BobTheLob wrote:
Lets overthink this a bit. JH could have been killed so that he would shut up OR he so that we would be thrown off the trail of the real Scum. So it could be someone he said it was OR the opposite.
(In the same boat with promethelax but with Rum+coke>beer) I think it's a bit of both. One person that is extremely suspicious in my eyes is Intact, who was never looked at seriously by JingleHell. Of course, Hopeless is also suspicious because JingleHell's (second) last post before death was against him, as were all the posts including Hopeless before that. I think the dead men got their votes right, but we will have to wait for the accused responses to be sure. For the moment, FoS on both Intact and Hopeless1der. This is a big reason to think carefully on what the scum is trying to do. It makes me extremely suspicious and is a big WIFOM situation. The most likely options are that either: I'm scum and I'm trying to shut him up or I'm getting set up because I've repeatedly challenged Jingle throughout and I am already kind of under suspicion. Quite frankly I agree that I look really suspicious, but if we try to chase down my case, the scum get a lot of time to spend lurking instead of talking. I'd rather present cases on other players who I think are more suspicious than me. Fencer, what specifically pushed you over the edge with promethelaxes case on me? You're bandwagoning again without contributing much to the discussion. I will address the Intact situation shortly. You managed to post that thought as I was going through his filter so this will look like a reactionary post, but so be it. I personally can't find much, so I was drawing attention to things I thought were very interesting. Promethelaxes' post is very convincing. He brought up a lot of good points, and you were already very suspicious. That said, I will make a note of who has contributed with analysis so far: 1) Anacletus: No, Dead. 2) Myles: Yes. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:
Well then I guess I'll post my thoughts.
First I think we should look at bandwagoners. I’m sure I’m under suspicion, or more so than before since I got the eye from some posters, for being part of the lynching, but I hope I explained my position enough that I get some BotD. A number of other people barely explained themselves at all before voting.
Blind-rawr hopped on the bandwagon without much discussion and voted pretty early, but his subsequent posts explained his position.
Intact did pretty much the same, just with a fewer number of posts.
Fencer is tied at the top for most suspicions now imo. His overall behavior, combined with his hopping on the bandwagon really early, hopping off when he got some attention, then hopping back on seems really scummy.
BobTheLob is right there with him. Lurker who used the same arguments as Fencer, hopped on the bandwagon with no reasoning, and the few posts he has made contributed nothing.
The others who voted for Anacletus seem like they had a reasonable position. And while I can’t say we know for sure that those who didn’t vote for him are town, I think it’s really likely because the FoS went so quickly on Anacletus . He didn’t do much to convince us of his innocence, so if they were PBUs it’d be some serious metagaming to start backing off and potentially drawing attention when there was so much support.
3) NrGmonk: Yes.(Being Replaced) + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 01:37 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +Monk is just not here. A couple of posts explaining how newbie you are, and a pretty limp-wristed FoS on Anacletus. If Anacletus's "nothing but short posts which don't adequately defend himself" is sufficient for him to be the only player you've even discussed as possible scum, what are we to conclude from your total lack of contribution? The difference is I never felt the urgency to defend myself, because I was never accused. I also went out last night and only got home this morning. You can check the veracity of this statement from The Newbie XVIII game. Anyways, time to contribute. One argument I have in Anacletus's defense is that even though he's close to being lynched, no one has really mounted a strong defense for him or has been really adamant to accuse someone else. If he were really mafia, I would suspect at least 2 other people to help him out a bit more. Fencer's play just seems nooby to me more than scummy. I would personally give him the BotD, at least for day 1. I'll look into this more after this post though. But to be honest, at this point, it seems more likely that scum is in one of the lurkers rather than in one of these two. Btw, the bigggest lurkers include BobTheLob and me and below that there's Intact, BLinD-RawR, and Myles. I want to bring special attention to Intact. Although he posts a decent amount, it seems to be filled with one-liners that don't really contribute much to anything and state the obvious. Check his filter, but for the lazy, here's some highlights: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 20:22 Intact wrote:
I think I saw this type of play in a previous mafia game. Not sure which one though. There were 2 mafia who argued agressivly towards eachother early on. This reminds me of that occasion. Trying to edge on Anacletus's hanging with a random story that doesn't really help anyone. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. Stating the obvious, and trying to gun for the lynch. At the same time, however, it seems extremely weird that Anacletus would vote for Intact without any providing any reasons. Suspicion goes back to Anacletus...I would really like to hear some explanation on this from him. Anyways, these are just my thoughts and I just want to lay them out so I could get feedback. Not really solidly accusing anyone though until I can get some feedback. 4) JingleHell: Yes, Dead. (Too many analysis' to spoiler.) 5) American Umlaut: Yes. (Same as above) 6) Intact: No. 7) BobTheLob: Yes, poor. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 09:03 BobTheLob wrote:
Okay, I've lurked this entire game and I'm starting to realize that that is a bad idea, now on the topic of reads: iamperfection and I am very fucking suspicious We're screwed by nature of our habits. See lurking
People are bandwagoning onto fencer now I agree he was acting odd but it's not conclusive
Jingle and Promethelax are working together quite well and the rest of us are just following them. They seem to have alot of the same ideas... paying attention to them
Myles hasn't posted to little or to much, he's playing it super safe. Not a clue
Blind is, more or less in the same boat as me albeit a bit less so. See above
AmericanUmlaut is doing quite well all his moves are well thought out but we still have no idea what side he's on could be one could be the other. No idea for him either
Hopeless1der also seems to be the victim of a bit of bandwagoning but he seems pretty cool I'm thinking he's a town but hey I could be wrong
Lastly Intact has been promoting conversation since the game began but seems to be in the same boat as me and perfection in that he hasn't posted enough. also not posting enough but I don't know
That's all I got, keeping in mind that we have only one death so far and the night is going to be the most important bit so far because as Jingle said, the scum will try to set someone up
Do games normally move this pace or faster/slower?
8) BLinD-RawR: No. 9) iamperfection: No. 10)Promethelax: Yes. (same as Jinglehell) 11)Fencer710/Fencar: Yes. + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 02:42 Fencer710 wrote:OK, guys. It's time for me to contribute, as well. An analysis on Promethelax: Early on, he has been very suspicious of Anacletus, as shown be these spoilered posts: + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 08:47 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! Oh, well in that case lets lynch him! + Show Spoiler +What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on. Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from. On June 29 2012 08:47 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:38 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 08:16 Myles wrote:On June 29 2012 08:12 Intact wrote:
I know it's a bit early to try and make a read, however my short list of possible scum is topped by Myles atm. Primarily because it seems like he wants to promote inactivity. It's a loose read but someone had to get this started. I guess you can call trying to be a little more selective than randomly picking people to start accusing is promoting inactivity, but I was trying to be a little more prudent. The game started 2 hours ago so it seems a bit early to start accusing people. I think Myles is right here, we need to think this through. I'm certainly not opposed to a lurker lynch but if we are going to start targeting a single player it should be for a good reason. Intact, if you think Myles is scummy you should keep a close eye on him and see how he acts see what he does and build a case. We as townies need to work together though we have the deductive power of nine smart (I hope) people on our side, we should try to use that power. I have 3 pages of notes already. And I wrote all of those notes in red ink. Only people who are guilty have note pages written about them in red ink. He must be scum! Oh, well in that case lets lynch him! + Show Spoiler +What do your notes say (assuming you weren't joking about them) what are your reads? Your thoughts and ideas. I know only a few of us are posting right now but that makes it easier, just assume that there still could be a scum among the posters and start hunting. No one needs to succeed at scum hunting yet, it is after all turn one, but we should start looking for any fishy behaviours. I'm looking but not finding anything yet, everyone seems to be pretty normally playing out day one. I'm curious about how fast Intact jumped on Myles but that doesn't mean either of them are scum, just people who I will keep an eye on. Intact: I think you are right to get the ball rolling but I think it should be in a more general sense right now, if you are town you should cast a wide net and not tunnel so quickly. Though you may be right of course, so don't lose sight of the people you get red vibes from. This one is special, as it contains a very juicy piece of information: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:56 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Promethelax wrote:On June 29 2012 12:17 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:13 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 12:10 JingleHell wrote:On June 29 2012 12:00 Anacletus wrote:On June 29 2012 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
Anacletus you're actively refusing to participate. Not even neglecting to do so (which I was also doing by joking around), but literally saying
[quote]
Dumb jokes aside, that is garbage and scummy behavior for anyone in this game. You would be better off lurking and pretending you weren't here, and even that could be considered suspicious. Our goal this early should be making whatever little reads we can and start building cases. Unfortunately we cannot do that with joke posts. Are you planning on giving us any reads? Right now, you have at best 1 post so far that I don't consider a complete write-off. Everyone has to start somewhere... I'm not actively refusing to participate. I just don't want to throw around accusations because I think that that will be aggressive and more like scum play. I think I'll wait for a few more people to post before I post any reads. This isn't a court of law, it's more like Jerry Springer. You talk to people, you lead into questions that get the discussion going the right way, and you start looking for things to poke at. Waiting for someone else to make a case and then bandwagoning looks pretty scummy too, so you're not doing yourself any favors. I'd be poking in other directions more, except there's damn few directions to poke right now. Yeah I know, I've played mafia before. It's just that refusing to participate is pretty serious and is mentioned in the rules. He wasn't suggesting that type of refusal, he's talking about not working with us, despite these reads, and pages of notes you claim to have. If you're not helping us look for scum, you're hindering the hunt. If you're not with us, you're against us. From what I generally see in mafia, the town is the most active in posting when the game starts, while the mafia generally don't post and lurk a while. I've been posting a lot and I really think it's too early to start calling out scum.
+ Show Spoiler +I said I had 8 pages of notes, that was obviously a joke, I don't know shit, bro! While the bolded may be true it is never too early to start hunting for scum. Share your reads with us. What do you think about JingleHell? Anyone else? If you don't have any notes why have you been filling the thread with trash about your notes? Just babbling helps scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856¤tpage=8#155If you actually thought that this was true... I think JingleHell is playing aggressively which leads me to believe that he is a townie. I only made the one about any supposed notes, the thread has 10 pages. So no, I am not filling the thread with trash about notes. You also said that you had eight pages of notes and profiles on people. While I didn't think that the length of your notes or strength of your reads were what you said they were I assumed that you wouldn't just play around so much. I don't like those posts or the one where you insinuate that scum doesn't post early. I particularly don't like that you lied about how many of these posts you've made. You have played before, that gives you an edge over most of us. We need to work together to find scum, if you are town give us your reads. More information is better for us. What do you think of JingleHell or anybody else, give us a first impression or a gut feeling at least, you must have some thoughts. These posts suggests Promethlax is town. I would like to draw attention to the bolded and underlined line, as since Anacletus has played before, we can take notes on his role in his previous game and how he posted in that one in contrast to this game. His next notable post is directed at me as to make me look like scum, which I did. Spoilered as to take up less space: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:14 Promethelax wrote:Okay, as you can tell I've been gone for a while; sleeping and working. I just read the thread and I apologize if I missed anything. (In case you aren't sure if you belive me I work every Tuesday-Saturday from 11-7 ADT (I'll be working Sunday this week too) and that, along with my commute and my sleeps, takes up the time that I am not posting) You can also check the other game I am in hereand compare timestamps. You will note that while I am around I post in both threads and while I am away from my computer I don't post anything. That being said I think that Fencer is scummier than Anacle-whateverhtefuckhisfullnameis and here is why: Our good friend #710 tried to get a band wagon started on Anacletus with that first vote which he cast long before anyone else, right after ##voteing ole Blindy posts: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. Which is shortly followed by an ##unvote from Fencer. Fencer tried to get a bandwagon rolling but when it failed he backed right off. He was testing teh waters and found them tepid. As soon as someone else ##voted Anacletus Fencer jumped right back on the bandwagon hoping to get it rolling and look what happened. Now Anacletus is one vote away from being lynched and Fencer is pretending that he is town. Now I do think Anancletus has posted some fishy stuff, in fact I said just that earlier, but I believe that Fencer jumped on the fishiest sounding guy and is trying to make us townies follow him to our own demise. Now if you don;t already believe me, and you should, let's take a long walk down memory lane in the way of his filter: We'll start with this gem. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:47 Fencer710 wrote:On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters. shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum.  I also forgot to mention this is my first game.I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so: - Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot. -Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well. I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ where Fencer's first post clearly tries to buddy up to a, probably, towny. When he is immediately called out for it he cries NEWB! as if that would make a difference. We're in a newbie game of course you are a newb. Fencer's defense is lackluster at best and scummy at worst. His next post is another classic where he points the finger at two guys who he could build a reasonable case against by simply saying: "For some reason I can't say exactly [pinpoint] why it makes me tick, but it does." He is trying to start a another bandwagon with no evidence, if he was a townie he would use logic and reason to find scum not just 'some reason' now in his next four post (all of which are one-liners) there is one which actually had me laughing out loud this example of what not to say when you are scum: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:15 Fencer710 wrote:
Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. Seriously that is his entire post. What the hell else should we be doing? So, to make a long case short, Fencer is scum. ##vote: Fencer710 It was pointed out that this post was made just as Anacletus had 6 votes to be lynched by Intact, here: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:29 Intact wrote:
I'm going to stand by my read as analectus being scum but I have also become very suspicious of promethelax. People may have been bandwagoning analectus but as soon as he got into lynching territory promethelax show up with a long thread pointing out someone else, thereby making some people switch vote. This causes divisions and tensions among the town which is exactly what the scum want. I lean more towards fencer just playing badly and promethelax trying to save his scum partner analectus. However, his reasoning does not make sense when Promethelax was initially suspicious of Anacletus in the first place. Along with this post which is spoilered as it is very long: + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 13:38 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710 You don't think Fencer is scum but you voted him? What the hell? If you are town this is horrible play, vote for someone who you think is scum not someone you think is annoying. Now, I think Fencer is scum so I voted him; what are you doing?Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 11:26 JingleHell wrote:
If you're really having trouble, and not just trying to be consistent to cover up the slips from earlier, I suggest you go read all of the linked guides, (no really, all of them). Then, forget all the advice you just read, because everyone has read it, and you'll just metagame yourself into a tizzy for no reason. Instead, focus on the generalizations, the state of mind, and the thought processes that were discussed.
However, I can easily see this, like I said, as you just trying to be consistent with your earlier behavior to try and get BotD. This is really good advice, we should all follow it. We don't need townies acting like scum just because they are dumb. Come on guys there are 9 of us, we need to start working together, our strength is in numbers. This Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! is why I can't imagine that you are town, I bring a case against you and your reaction is to give really generic advice and go to bed? You may as well just claim scum in the thread. The bolded and underlined portion suggests that he is town and not actually just trying to save Anacletus. Along with this post: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 22:19 Promethelax wrote:
Well this is obnoxious, I think Anaacletus is scummy but I think Fencer is more scummy, however I will be at work when the voting ends and this is my last minute in this thread for this day cycle, since I think a no lynch is really bad for us I am going to switch my vote to Anacletus, I hope that if he flips town you all will look at my Fencer case, he really does look more scummy to me.
I'm putting the hammer on Anacletus because we need a lynch and I won't be here to convince people that we should get Fencer, I would leave my vote on Fencer if I thought I could make the rest of you realize that he is scum but since you seem to want to go for the second reddest person I will do that as well to ensure a lynch.
I hope that if we are wrong and Anacletus is town you will all take a second look at my case on Fencer, if Anacletus is town Fencer is even more likely to be scum.
@Intact: If Anacletus flips scum and you feel the need to go after me I can't stop you, you should go after Fencer but if you don't do that you should go after him on day three after I flip green (all this assuming I live through the next two nights which I probably won't without medic protection).
##Unvote: Fencer710
##Vote: Anacletus
Is there any way to make sure I don't have to do this in the future since I won't be around for the voting deadline? i.e. would it be possible to PM one of you to say my preferences in terms of my vote. That a lynch is better than a no lynch and a lynch on Fenccer is better than a lynch on Anacletus and so on. I want my vote to count but I also have to make it about 12 hours before the deadline which really messes with me, thanks. All of this suggests that he is town, as he was suspicious/believed Anacletus was scum from the start. All in all, Promethelax appears to be 100% innocent, but while digging I found that Intact is very suspicious. He has made 8 posts since the game began, all with very few lines, a paragraph at best. A few gems: Bandwagon without any explanation. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:48 Intact wrote:
In addition, should we lynch analectus and he turns put to be mafia, it would make it fairly easy to point out the other mafia. And if he turns out to be townie it would be very easy to confirm some townies. This makes me extremely suspicious that Anacletus is not mafia, as regardless if he is mafia or town, it wouldn't make it nearly as easy as he suggests, and it supports the notion of lynching him without actually saying anything. This isn't enough to change my vote yet, but FoS on Intact. Also, link to the mafia game Anacletus played in before: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707 12) Hopeless1der: Yes. (same as JingleHell) (second day only) 'Yes' means that they gave an analysis of a specific person. 'No' is the opposite.
Fisrtly sorry about yesterday, hopefully you can forgive me the necessity of consuming copious amounts of alcohol to celebrate the birth of my adopted country.
Secondly, on to the post analysis:
Well, this post by Fencar (I guess is your name) seems odd to me, he hasn't added anything but he made a huge post about how much each person has contributed to the thread. I don't know about anyone else but I was aware of how much people had written, I knew this because I have been reading the thread. Fencar has given us a huge post that makes his filter look more legit but said nothing in this post.
He even makes it easy for us to read the analysis of the few guys who have done very little but he won't link to JH's mod confirmed townie analysis or my own thoughts, those are too long to put in a spoiler...I'll let you think about that.
Why does Fencar hide the thoughts of Hopeless, JH, Me and Umlat? Well, looking into our Filters there is one suspicion in common:
I made the case against Fencar, which you should probably read, though it needs to be updated teh things I said in it are still true. + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:14 Promethelax wrote:Okay, as you can tell I've been gone for a while; sleeping and working. I just read the thread and I apologize if I missed anything. (In case you aren't sure if you belive me I work every Tuesday-Saturday from 11-7 ADT (I'll be working Sunday this week too) and that, along with my commute and my sleeps, takes up the time that I am not posting) You can also check the other game I am in hereand compare timestamps. You will note that while I am around I post in both threads and while I am away from my computer I don't post anything. That being said I think that Fencer is scummier than Anacle-whateverhtefuckhisfullnameis and here is why: Our good friend #710 tried to get a band wagon started on Anacletus with that first vote which he cast long before anyone else, right after ##voteing ole Blindy posts: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
we still have 2 lurkers/inactive players, until we can get them to talk and really get some info from them I'd lay off of voting. Which is shortly followed by an ##unvote from Fencer. Fencer tried to get a bandwagon rolling but when it failed he backed right off. He was testing teh waters and found them tepid. As soon as someone else ##voted Anacletus Fencer jumped right back on the bandwagon hoping to get it rolling and look what happened. Now Anacletus is one vote away from being lynched and Fencer is pretending that he is town. Now I do think Anancletus has posted some fishy stuff, in fact I said just that earlier, but I believe that Fencer jumped on the fishiest sounding guy and is trying to make us townies follow him to our own demise. Now if you don;t already believe me, and you should, let's take a long walk down memory lane in the way of his filter: We'll start with this gem. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:47 Fencer710 wrote:On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters. shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so: - Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot. -Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well. I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ where Fencer's first post clearly tries to buddy up to a, probably, towny. When he is immediately called out for it he cries NEWB! as if that would make a difference. We're in a newbie game of course you are a newb. Fencer's defense is lackluster at best and scummy at worst. His next post is another classic where he points the finger at two guys who he could build a reasonable case against by simply saying: "For some reason I can't say exactly [pinpoint] why it makes me tick, but it does." He is trying to start a another bandwagon with no evidence, if he was a townie he would use logic and reason to find scum not just 'some reason' now in his next four post (all of which are one-liners) there is one which actually had me laughing out loud this example of what not to say when you are scum: Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:15 Fencer710 wrote:
Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. Seriously that is his entire post. What the hell else should we be doing? So, to make a long case short, Fencer is scum. ##vote: Fencer710
Hopeless voted him on d1, + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 12:45 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 12:20 Fencer710 wrote:
OK, guys. I have to go to bed. My closing thoughts in case I don't make the deadline tomorrow:
Remember, 7 people have to decide to lynch the same guy in order for there to be a lynch. It's me, Anacletus, or nothing.
You can be meta all you want in your head, but it doesn't change what actually goes on in the thread.
Remember to read and reread all the posts! I'll take you over Anacletus today. You're posting is extremely unproductive to me. It doesnt seem all that scummy, but its a massive hindrance when you don't provide anything for discussion, just constantly droning about how your new and guides are super cool. ##Vote: Fencer710
AU said + Show Spoiler +On June 29 2012 18:25 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:22 Fencer710 wrote:
Sorry T_T. I was literally asleep during the day.
For better or for worse, my views are the same as Umlaut's. I can't really add anything. :\ No, no, no. No coming in here and latching on to someone else's opinions. Me-tooing is the easiest way to just scoot by under the radar without attracting any attention. What do you find so compelling about my arguments? What thoughts of your own do you have? Just popping in here and saying "Sorry, I'm here, too" is not different from lurking and doing nothing in any way that matters.
And JH is JH, he is mod-confirmed town, well spoken and well thought of now, do you know what he said about Fencar? I do. + Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote:On June 30 2012 06:17 Fencer710 wrote:Single words are fine, though. Damn lack of edit button increasing my post count artifically. It's like accidently opening no-gas in a matchup where you normally open gas because you forgot his race, then forced to all-in because you don't know how to open gasless FE. Argh...Thanks for derailing us hard ghost. It's time to get back to scumhunting now? and for future reference, the quoted post is usually seen as a complete waste of time and reason for suspicion. Wow, that's completely meta, a waste of content post about waste of content posting. I agree, though. Not ready to shift a vote yet, but I've got an FoS on Fencer710.
and
+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:33 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 09:30 Fencer710 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 30 2012 09:24 Fencer710 wrote:Yeah I'm an idiot for sure. Elaborating on this a bit: Show nested quote +Wow, I didn't realize that the only thing JH was talking about was lynching players. I had forgotten that posting 1-liners/spam is considered 'scum'. I need to reread the rules T_T. Show nested quote +shit I'm an idiot. I'm acting like scum. I also forgot to mention this is my first game.
I guess it's my fault for having the same views as you. Do you want me to word it differently as well? I'll do so:
- Anacletus is very suspicious, not really doing anything but posting a lot.
-Jinglehell is similar, but doesn't feel as suspicious since he actually has some direction although he is a bit all over the place as well.
I'll talk more later, I have to reread everything a few more times :\ I said this since in your first game you fuck up and learn a lot more than your second and third, at least in my experience with playing games for the first time, unless you do so on purpose. Now, what I should have done, in spoilers if you don't want to read it: + Show Spoiler +I should have said I will stay and post through the night to prove my claim that I was asleep through the first portion.
I should have paid more attention to the general guide to mafia. A lot more.
I should have re-read everything 5 times, and been very very careful what I posted.
I should have posted far far less. I'm an idiot for forgetting why Anacletus was called out as scum. T_T EBWOP: At the beginning here, I mean to say that I forgot why Anacletus was called out for being scum while posting. Also It's pretty easy to point out a newbie's mistakes as scum behaviour, I consistently start stopping 'scummy' behaviour, aka spamming and indecisiveness as you/I catch it. We already know you're a newbie. Just like the rest of us. ##Vote Fencer710It's not a crutch, it should be a similar sort of hindrance (we're all willing to spend time on a website dedicated to competitive video games, don't tell me about not reading the guide.)
Even at the end when JH thinks Hopeless is more scummy he still sees through Fencar who looked scummy to JH until his death.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 01 2012 08:09 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 08:03 Promethelax wrote:On July 01 2012 07:59 JingleHell wrote:
Promethelax, go back to the case you and I made against Hopeless.
He placed his vote on Fencer (who has been under vague suspicion quite a bit, including by the dearly departed), but only after the vote on Anacletus was nearly secured, and ended the day as the ONLY vote on Fencer.
That ties in to the case we were already making about his scummy play. What do you think? I'll go back and look at it, it isn't fair to you to call it our case though. I noticed and mentioned the stupid play, you made a real case. I would urge you to go back and re-read my case on Fencer, I think it is even stronger now that Anacletus has flipped green. I'll post my thoughts about the wonder when I have re-read your case and his filter. I still think Fencer is scummy, too, which is why I mentioned the Hopeless vote on him, as it makes one of them look less scummy if the other flips, but was done in a way that it didn't overcommit the vote, either. However, if I have to take two people who are similarly scummy, I'm going to end up dropping a vote on the one who seems more dangerous, which currently feels like Hopeless.
The three people that JH was looking at as scum before he died were Hopeless, Fencar and Myles. I'm pretty confident that JH was killed for a reason and at least one of them is scum but probably two, just based on a numbers game. The one I am most sure of is Fencar and his new post where he hides the cases against him only reenforces that idea to me.
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