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@Snarfs
I'm not trying to make something out of nothing. The issue with that post is that he takes something that is a null tell and says that it makes rastaban look even scummier.
The reason that I brought up that he unnecessarily defended is because he mentioned it in bypass in this post where he said he wanted MrZ to explain himself. He says "He spends half of his posts unnecessarily defending himself and the other half is useless 1-worders.".
You're right on the lurker lynching part, he never explicitly says "I want to lynch lurkers". I took it for granted that he had said something along those lines after reading someone else's post about risk, quite likely this post by VE, but now, after looking through his filter, I realised that he hadn't. The closest thing he's said would be that he was too lenient on lurkers before, which clearly isn't the same thing.
risk.nuke is a null tell for me right now. Can you explain why you have a town read on him?
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:/ I've swung around again. I really think VE is scum, or actually quite possibly SK.
I'm making my town tell on his emotion to a null tell. He proved in LI he can get all 'emotional' as scum. Firstly I just can't get over the way he pushed me.
On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now...
:/
Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest?
On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again!
Marv, your response?
Ok, so we've established he thinks I'm totes amazing scummer. It makes absolutely no sense to me how he thinks someone as good at scumplay as I am would get myself into this situation. xscsc summarised it quite nicely:
On June 25 2012 22:17 xsksc wrote:
Again, I'm gonna have to disagree with my predecessor here.
People, including him, were pointing out that the way that you answered the question, and the argument following it, didn't make sense for a townie.
However, it really doesn't make sense for scum either. Any remotely decent scum player is going to put 10x the thought into how they answer questions regarding their alignment and would never have answered that way, it draws wayyyyy too much negative attention, for no gain.
I don't think you handled it the best way, but I think people need to realise that a bad play does not equal scum.
This is the crux of it, and xcksc hasn't even seen my scumplay, but he understands. Yet VE who saw me trash town in LIV and LV as scum does not see it.
On June 22 2012 09:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't underestimate you, which is why I know scumMarv wouldn't think twice about side-stepping the question. Take it as a compliment, not an affront.
This doesn't add up. Clearly sidestepping Matt's question WAS NOT the correct scumplay. Just look at what's happened. There's a mental disconnect going on.
On June 23 2012 00:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
There are differences marv. For instance, townMarv is interested in finding scum. scumMarv is interested in lynching townies.
Also, both townMarv and scumMarv are good enough to realize that I'm very obviously town in this game, so the fact that you're calling me "dodgy" still (not scummy, not scum, not suspicious, not suspect....."dodgy") just confirms that you're not interested in finding scum today. For that, you're gonna die friend. Sorry. *shrug*
First paragraph is just trite, it says nothing. He's just explaining the wincon for a townie and scummer. I commented before on the 2nd part. Calling me out for finding him scummy, calling himself town. It's manipulative.
On June 23 2012 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, honestly. Marvel is much better than this. He knows that me targeting him if he's town does not automatically make me scum. This is literally the DEFINITION of OMGUS. He literally just said "I know I'm town, so because VE is targeting me, he's scum" and has fabricated some kind of fantasy to justify calling me such.
Marv is definitely my preference for lynch. He knows better. He's acting like he doesn't, but he does.
When I accused him before, I wasn't calling him scum because I was town. I'd said I had the perspective of 100% knowing I was town that others did not. I simply did not say he was scum because he was accusing me. Twisted my words.
On the day 1 lynch:
Realising he's not gonna get me through, he turns his attention to Zentor. Subsequently:
On June 24 2012 04:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
risk do you think that scum only lurk? Because you're really only pushing people who aren't likely to push back. :/
Marv do your own meta research.
I'm also feeling strange about the ease of this lynch. I also don't want to lynch Zentor. Can we lynch either risk or prpl? maybe Marv?
This is where it all gets odd. He doesn't want to lynch Zentor, and lists 3 other people. Who doesn't he name? The other leading candidiate, rastaban. He is realistically the only alternative, but nothing. Compare - slOosh was trying really hard to get people to switch from Zentor to rastaban, but VE? nothing. Let's see if VE ever talks about rastaban:
On June 23 2012 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
@Snarfs
Yeah, I'm null on rasta. He looks pretty townie to me too, but to be fair I've only skimmed the cases on him. I'll go read them in earnest and let you know what I think.
This is it. Nothing else. He never lets us know what he thinks of the alternative lynch candidate, despite promising to, and despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor. It's a half-assed, not-real attempt.
On June 24 2012 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually prpl, that post was good. I'm cool with a Zeph lynch if we can make that happen.
Except VE never tries to make ANYTHING happen. He says this and disappears.
I also feel like his pushing of prplhz is a sham. He came straight from LV where two townies pushed hard for a policy lynch on a player they disliked. He should know this isn't a scumtell. But it looks good to push someone on wanting a policy lynch like that, doesn't it?
Conclusion: All his scumhunting is a sham. He knows and states I'm an excellent scum player, but somehow then thinks I would come into this game as scum and play scummily. He twists my words. He never talks about rastaban despite promising to, despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor and rastaban being the main alternative. In fact he never pushes any alternative. Pushes prplhz because it's an easy thing to do.
I think VE is scum (or SK :D)
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Oh, and:
##Vote: VisceraEyes
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Wow look at that, who saw that one coming?
*raises hand*
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Marvel's case boils down to...what? What is the main point you'd like me to answer for Marvel? Because it looks to me like a huge post just trying to justify voting for me. There's nothing scummy in there, there's nothing alignment indicative, it's all just a bunch of stuff that you're twisting to justify voting for me.
so yeah, if there's a specific problem you'd like me to answer for, feel free to clearly ask me while I'm around - if not, then you're obvious scum trying to appear contributory.
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XS I backed off mar vel because no one wanted to lynch him. Everyone was focused on the policy lynches and I wasn't going to be able to get him lynched D1. I absolutely still think he's scum though.
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On June 26 2012 01:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marvel's case boils down to...what? What is the main point you'd like me to answer for Marvel? Because it looks to me like a huge post just trying to justify voting for me. There's nothing scummy in there, there's nothing alignment indicative, it's all just a bunch of stuff that you're twisting to justify voting for me.
so yeah, if there's a specific problem you'd like me to answer for, feel free to clearly ask me while I'm around - if not, then you're obvious scum trying to appear contributory.
Not twisting anything. People will be able to see your behaviour around the lynch for themselves.
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*shrug*
Suit yourself.
##Vote: Marvellosity
It didn't have to be this way sir.
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Since Marvel has claimed scum by thinking I'm scum, everyone should be voting for Marvelosity. He clearly doesn't want to play, so let's oblige the poor chap shall we?
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On June 26 2012 01:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Since Marvel has claimed scum by thinking I'm scum, everyone should be voting for Marvelosity. He clearly doesn't want to play, so let's oblige the poor chap shall we?
Sorry, what?
Why is that claiming scum?
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It's not, he's sarcastically dismissing my case without addressing any of its points.
On June 23 2012 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, honestly. Marvel is much better than this. He knows that me targeting him if he's town does not automatically make me scum. This is literally the DEFINITION of OMGUS. He literally just said "I know I'm town, so because VE is targeting me, he's scum" and has fabricated some kind of fantasy to justify calling me such.
Marv is definitely my preference for lynch. He knows better. He's acting like he doesn't, but he does.
On June 26 2012 01:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Since Marvel has claimed scum by thinking I'm scum, everyone should be voting for Marvelosity. He clearly doesn't want to play, so let's oblige the poor chap shall we?
Hilarious stuff.
xsksc, I'd rather you read and commented my case rather than VE's trite responses to it.
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On June 26 2012 01:43 marvellosity wrote:It's not, he's sarcastically dismissing my case without addressing any of its points. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, honestly. Marvel is much better than this. He knows that me targeting him if he's town does not automatically make me scum. This is literally the DEFINITION of OMGUS. He literally just said "I know I'm town, so because VE is targeting me, he's scum" and has fabricated some kind of fantasy to justify calling me such.
Marv is definitely my preference for lynch. He knows better. He's acting like he doesn't, but he does. Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 01:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Since Marvel has claimed scum by thinking I'm scum, everyone should be voting for Marvelosity. He clearly doesn't want to play, so let's oblige the poor chap shall we? Hilarious stuff. xsksc, I'd rather you read and commented my case rather than VE's trite responses to it.
I'm reading it right now, I just REALLY didn't like VE's responses.
Ok, so I think you have some valid points - particuarly where the lynch is concerned.
Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually prpl, that post was good. I'm cool with a Zeph lynch if we can make that happen. Except VE never tries to make ANYTHING happen. He says this and disappears.
He said he didn't like it, but he makes no attempt to actually get off.
The VE that I remember would MAKE something happen.
I didn't like his tunneling of you on day 1, either.
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I was phone-posting during the lynch - RL concerns forced me to pay attention to the thread from my phone. If something had started to happen, I would have switched my vote...since nothing did, I left my vote.
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Anyway, I'll respond to marv's case in full when I feel like it. I don't feel like it right now, so you'll excuse my indifference.
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On June 26 2012 02:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
Anyway, I'll respond to marv's case in full when I feel like it. I don't feel like it right now, so you'll excuse my indifference.
Indifference?
You said it was claiming scum. -_-
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I have a penchant for exaggeration xsksc. It's one of my more annoying yet endearing qualities.
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On June 26 2012 02:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
I have a penchant for exaggeration xsksc. It's one of my more annoying yet endearing qualities.
Well, I don't think it's doing you any favours right now.
I've admired your play in the past, so I know you're not bad.
I would really prefer to see you make a proper defense and refute any points you think are invalid - if you are innocent, rather than just dismissing it and voting him with an OMGUS.
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Xs, I've been suspicious of marv all game, don't even.
....nope, not doing this right now. No one admires my play, my play is a fucking joke. Saying that only makes me suspicious of YOU Xs...but whatever, I'll look into that later.
I said I'll respond to Marv's case. I'll do it. When I fucking feel like it.
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On June 26 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
Xs, I've been suspicious of marv all game, don't even.
....nope, not doing this right now. No one admires my play, my play is a fucking joke. Saying that only makes me suspicious of YOU Xs...but whatever, I'll look into that later.
I said I'll respond to Marv's case. I'll do it. When I fucking feel like it.
No, really, both times I've played with you as town (c9++ and election), you've been really strong, your day 2 GF shot in election was particuarly sick. I don't think your play is a joke at all.
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On June 25 2012 22:40 Shraft wrote:@SnarfsI'm not trying to make something out of nothing. The issue with that post is that he takes something that is a null tell and says that it makes rastaban look even scummier. The reason that I brought up that he unnecessarily defended is because he mentioned it in bypass in this post where he said he wanted MrZ to explain himself. He says "He spends half of his posts unnecessarily defending himself and the other half is useless 1-worders.". You're right on the lurker lynching part, he never explicitly says "I want to lynch lurkers". I took it for granted that he had said something along those lines after reading someone else's post about risk, quite likely this post by VE, but now, after looking through his filter, I realised that he hadn't. The closest thing he's said would be that he was too lenient on lurkers before, which clearly isn't the same thing. risk.nuke is a null tell for me right now. Can you explain why you have a town read on him?
Hmm that makes sense. I'd actually missed the part where he mentions that MrZ spends half his posts unnecessarily defending himself.
It was actually this quote here that gave me a towny vibe on risk.nuke:
On June 23 2012 10:15 risk.nuke wrote:
So my first thought is what two players are yelling the loudest at eachother. It's Vicera and Marv. So naturally my first assumption would be to remove both of those from my day 1 lynch pool. While Vicera doubtlessly seems like the towniest townie ever towned marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town.
If one of VE or marv are scum, then risk.nuke is tying himself closely to the lynch and that seems like bad scum play given we would surely come back and notice that risk.nuke didn't want to lynch into them during day 1.
If VE and marv are both town, I don't think that mafia would immediately think to remove two loud players from their lynch pool, but would rather be looking to see which one appeared weaker or had a bandwagon form on them in order to eliminate the more vocal members.
Either way I wouldn't see a scum player wanting to make this statement.
I'm going to go through VE and marv's back and forth again today. I think I also need to go over Probulous again given slOosh's suspicions, but I probably won't have time until this evening as I've got a pile of work to do today.
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EPT
