EPTFor 5 things I write 1 returns.
Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII - Page 3
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Vivax
21972 Posts
For 5 things I write 1 returns. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
From even earlier in the day. You are changing your votes based on the person suspecting you to be lying. Prove it. I suspected roflwaffle55, the role behind him, before Jingle accused me. Keirathi never suspected me. Esspen never suspected me before I suspected him. This is also directed to Jingle for saying my case against him is OMGUS. It can't be OMGUS cause I made it before you even started with your 4 lines of proof that I am scum. I am surprised, Bio, you are going pretty much against common sense. You already managed to get Hopeless killed when I wanted to keep him alive since your case against him was weak, but townies listened to you, and scum helped you. Now you try to get me lynched instead of the real scum, if we nail Jingle, we will also have information about your alignment cause you also covered Jingle day 1 by pushing hopeless. If you kill me, you can hide saying you had no reason to believe I might be DT. And you fail to see that it's favorable to kill Jingle first, instead you kill DT's by a matter of principle to check if their claim was right. The amount of information gained should have precedence before your irrational principles. | ||
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On June 30 2012 02:50 JingleHell wrote: This statement literally only makes sense if you're not DT. How else could people hide behind that disbelief? Thank you for admitting you made up the case against me. Why? He's trying to get me killed cause he doesn't believe I'm the DT. Once I flip , he will exactly say that he didn't believe I was the DT and thus got me lynched. He will just admit to have made a mistake by not believing I'm the DT. He also was the main pusher against the first mislynched townie, and noone can blame him for that mistake, like noone could blaim him if you killed the DT now, that's me. That's what I say with that post: If you kill me, he will be able to wash off guilt, if you kill Jingle, it won't be so easy and you will still have a DT. Also notice how JingleHell is running out of options, his post become increasingly smaller. His last one revolves around one line he misunderstands. | ||
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Vivax
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Guess who made the case against the townie: BioSC. Who has been covered by letting town believe that case? roflwaffle55/ Jingle. Who went in for the kill?Esspen. If BioSC is so active now, then cause he'll be in the dirt once Jingle flips scum. | ||
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Vivax
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On June 30 2012 03:08 JingleHell wrote: I don't misunderstand it at all. If you get lynched and flip DT, anybody who refused to believe you will look like they jumped on your bandwagon to save me. Nobody in their right mind would hide scumminess behind scum behavior. Wait, so first you use that line of mine to say I admitted not to be the DT. Now you you use that line to say that it will make anyone look guilty who jumped on the bandwagon against me if I flip DT. I didn't say that anyone jumping on the bandwagon is guilty, in fact, the bandwagon is what protects scum cause they can share responsibility for what happened to the mislynched. You can't share responsibility that easy when you protected someone who flips scum, that's why BioSC will end up in deep if you get lynched and flip red, but he can minimize his responsibility if he kills me. | ||
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On June 30 2012 06:32 NrGmonk wrote: Who's the guy you suspected from day 1? You have FoS for both Esspen and Keirathi. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347651#19 I decided to lynch him right before the townie mislynch happened, but it was one minute too late, it even came before the mod's post. This is also my defense outside of the claim. As scum I would have no reason to do something this risky (if Jingle was town as most believe). I would cause a lynch of just another townie, would get blamed for saving hopeless in the literal last minute, and would have achieved nothing better than the mislynch of hopeless already was. If people actually thought this far, I wouldn't have had to roleclaim. | ||
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On June 30 2012 06:46 NrGmonk wrote: Also, if I'm understanding this right, Vivax pointed Keirathi as definite scum. But why did he vote for Jingle? Also, why is Keirathi also voting for Jingle if Vivax accused him of returning scum? Either Vivax is detective or not. I don't see a combination of roles which would make this make sense, unless something is really wrong. Sorry for the short posts btw. I'm/we're really short on time, and I really want to get quick responses. No, Jingle returned scum to the check, not Keirathi. Keirathi was lurking and playing passively and earned my FoS for it. I have already said that it would have been useless for me to attack Jingle alone at that point. Noone was willing enough to lynch him, so I emphasized the extra gain of information from lynching him over Esspen. @ Miltonkram Yeah, I should just have let Jingle get me lynched based off ridiculous claims. That would sure have been the better play from a DT. In my last game the medic got lynched day 1 and he didn't claim. It's stupid to not claim as blue when you're in danger of getting lynched. That I couldn't breadcrumb the results better is due to the fact that Jingle's countercase gained momentum much faster than mine. I had to go for the direct way. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
I'm aware of this as well, that his vote switch didn't actually matter and it could very well have been planted "proof". I posted before the mod, and you really think mafia would try to ninja the mod post and risk being the next sure lynch if it fails when a mislynch is all you can wish for the moment, when you are scum and don't have to do anything except watching a townie getting killed? | ||
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If I bluff-protected him, then that means I didn't plan on lynching roflwaffle55/JingleHell at that moment. So how do you explain that I try to get him lynched afterwards? Why would I try to lynch the guy I didn't want to be lynched when I bluffed-vote him to gain cred? That would be pointless. And way too risky for a scum player when there's no need to do something like that, but I already mentioned this. And that is how I debunk this version of events where I voted so late to gain cred. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
The host actually responded to this in the previous page. I have not been taking that into consideration all the time. I realize that this puts me in a bad spot. I would also understand if you voted for me now that you mentioned it, at least then I can finally lean back and post what I've prepared in case I get lynched. Let me just tell you one thing: whatever happens, from the kill of either of both of us there's gonna be much information to be gained. And I will be coming up with a huge post right before my death adressing that information, should i finally get lynched. | ||
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I wonder if the scum team feels comfortable now that I'm going to get lynched, I'll do my best to change that in less than an hour. | ||
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First of all, I'm not the DT, I'm Vanilla Townie. Since I knew that Jingle would succeed with his OMGUS case by getting so surprisingly quick backup, probably thanks to mafia, I decided to first delay my defense and see who would support a case against me, while I kept it passive until enough came out of their cover to post. My motive for lying: I really didn't want to just sit back and get lynched without fighting back, knowing I'm a townie and that I was getting tunneled based on weak claims by someone who I believed to be scum. The momentum on my case made me more suspicious of mafia trying to get me mislynched, and I think the arguments against me before the claim were really, really bad, those were the 4 lines of accuse by Jingle. Once he managed to create a bandwagon with that, I decided to fake claim and manage to get scum lynched. Enough of the justifications, here's the information I could get from this day and fake-claim story: First of all, my claim caused a lot of discomfort among scum, all (scum) players have posted in this matter (a real improvement compared to day1), and you have to consider that scum knew I am townie. So that leads to these different possibilities: - If mafia knew I was Vanilla townie and knew I was accusing another townie based on a false claim (cause a real DT wouldn't accuse a townie), the only alternative left for them was to believe that I checked the miller and truly was a DT. In this version (unless they assume miller got checked) mafia has to do nothing except bandwagoning and watch two townies get each other lynched. This didn't happen.Scum posted a lot during this day. - If Jingle was one of mafia and they really believed I was DT, then they wouldn't defend him/accuse me directly. They would bandwagon. - If mafia knew I wasn't DT cause either 1) JingleHell is actually a godfather and knows that he can't return scum cause of a check. 2) I have been checked by a mafia rolecop during the night. then all they have to do is get me lynched, show town that I wasn't DT and walk away unharmed. And I believe this last possibility to be what they are believing and trying. The other two options allow/force mafia to play way more passive. But once I saw the posts from every player coming up after my claim and case against Jingle, I knew that I hit a weak spot there, there was absolutely noone supporting my case against him, and that meant that scum 1) had no interest in lynching Jingle 2) felt the need to post cause I was threatening one of them. If this situation wasn't hot for scum, they wouldn't have posted and instead would have watched me kill a townie by using a fake roleclaim. Cause of this I felt I had a confirmation for Jingle's scum status. Then there is a person who I saw make scumslips (or roleslips). There are two options regarding this person: - It's either the DT knowing that I'm lying (thing I DON'T believe when looking at his post history and stances regarding me) - or it's mafia knowing that I'm lying. That person is BioSC, here are the mentioned slips: On June 30 2012 02:37 BioSC wrote: I don't trust anything. I've seen games where Vanilla Townies Claim Blue roles. Most of the time, they don't work. I'm going off the way he's playing. He didn't breadcrumb his check, he only tells us about it after he has a majority vote on himself, switching targets between you and Jingle... yeah. I don't believe he is blue at all. He actually knows what's up (he seems to know my role) and rather mentions that alternative instead of the option that I'm scum trying to evade the lynch. On June 30 2012 03:29 BioSC wrote: Right now, vivax is lying about being a DT. I know it. Does it sound like BioSC backs his knowledge with facts visible to townies? He's pretty sure of himself and would even take the risk of losing a DT for the sake of not lynching Jingle.That'd be nuts from a townie not knowing my role. Keirathi has been adressing the issue all the time. Imagine how much mafia has to lose if Jingle flips red. It will automatically cast suspicion on Milton, Esspen and Bio, and that's also the initial reason I wanted to lynch Jingle even BEFORE he was successful in starting the bandwagon against me. A jingle lynch would have revealed clues about many different alignments at that point, and it was the only clue I had back then. Then think about the confirmed townies gained with this: You think mafia would risk their neck by defending a lying townie? Nope. And that's why dNa, BassInSpace and Keirathi can't be mafia. Cause noone with scummy intentions would have attempted to defend me while I was lying. Cause If I got Jingle lynched and he flipped town, then I would have been in deep and the people defending me aswell. Why would scum stop a mislynch to happen in favor of another mislynch when both of them were equally good for mafia? Conclusion: the mafia is among these: Miltonkram, BioSC, JingleHell, Esspen, NrGMonk. I'm not entirely sure about JieXian, but Id prefer to not include him in the list as of now, I'd still keep an eye on him as townie. tl;dr: I almost fooled you all successfully cause I am so sure of Jingle being scum and cause I was set to be lynched and wanted to do some bold stunt. But what you know now is that the people NOT suspecting me can't be scum unless they are so sloppy to defend a townie they know is lying, and that scum's best option was to get me lynched. If they've been so active (the scum players), then cause I was threatening another scum player. If there weren't scum players threatened by a lynch, then the other two scum would have had the option to remain silent and neutral and let the townies kill each other. I hope this is gonna help town after the second mislynch/fail, sadly I didn't manage to stop the first in time. GG and gl | ||
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21972 Posts
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+ Show Spoiler +  On a side note, people don't seem to treat this like a newbie game. And more posts in mafia qt than here, Blazinghand even posted a postcount there. | ||
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