EPT[T] MTG Mini Mafia - Page 6
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
It could just tap the 10/2 creature... | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Example -> Attackphase I want to attack Matt with my 2 Hovermyrs and I do so during the attackphase. Matt attacks S&B with stuff to kill him during the attackphase. -> Blockingphase S&B chooses to block 2 monsters to not die but also looses them resulting in everyone having to sacrifice 2 monsters. I have to sacrifice one of my hovermyr + my Myr Enforcer. Do both Hovermyrs damage against Matt or just one? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 19:03 Fulla wrote: The best thing we can do is: - Were - aether bombs, prom's Command Eesha & ether bombs 1 of Matt's warchiefs. - Strong you sacrifice all your creatures including your Husk onto it's self. So all 3 creatures. - Prom#s board will be wiped completely, Matt's almost wiped. Matt says hes going to attack me? He will probably attack you strong :/ Don't think there's anyway you can survive this. But atleast Zeal and Were can take down matt this turn as well. The beast will kill Were, then it's me and Zeal against Prom. I think Prom is too strong, but if I get burn cards and Zeal gets a lucky tendrils, we just might pull it off. Our only chance of winning. Were/Strong you up for that? If you have a better scenario please spit it out, we only have until tonight for the attack phase. I can't aether bomb anything anymore. I used my first aether bomb in cycle 2 in an attempt to finally draw a land and I had to use the 2nd one to get the harrier out of the way so that it can't tap the 10/2 creature... So no bombing Command Eesha & 1 of Matt's warchiefs, can't even bomb one of those, sadly. However if S&B really sacrifices all 4 creatures of his he completly wipe proms (and my own but I guess I'll be dead anyways) board as well. Prom only has 4 creatures and has to sacrifice 4 at the end of the attack phase so that means his command Eesha is gone as well, even without my spellbomb. As mentioned I can do 4 damage to Matt and I can attack Prom with my 6/5 myr this turn. I think Fulla is best to attack Prom with his 6/1 as well and the 10/2 creature can attack as well. That however means that we need S&B to deal 4 damage to Matt as well to kill him. If the board is completly wiped (and it will be for everyone having 4 or less monsters in play) that means we can deal the damage without having to worry about blockers. Prom only has 4 creatures so 100% of the damage will go trough. That's at least 6 from my myr and probably 16 more from fulla + zealos which means Prom will be reduced to 5 HP. So what's going to happen with this board-wipe is this: I am going to be dead because of mafia beast. Zealos will have 18HP. Prom will have 5HP. Matt will be dead (if S&B manages to get 4 damage on him) S&B will be dead (with no blockers matt can kill either him or Fulla I guess?) Fulla will be dead (with not blockers matt can kill either him or S&B I guess?) | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 22:20 strongandbig wrote: I don't understand how you guys can be so sure that matt and prome are the scum team. Like, I agree that they're pretty likely, but I think wbg/zealos are just as likely now that zealos derped his way to using up the board card before we could really discuss my plan or force someone scummy to use it. That's why I wanted to guarantee a mass death with my plan. We still don't have a single scum flip to go on, so now we're reduced to guessing at entire scum teams. Actually now that Zealos has saved wbg from having to use the board card, I think there may be no way a zealos/wbg scum team can lose. But I guess I already resigned myself to the fact that we lose if zealos is scum and I'll just have to be happy with my "I told you so" dance when that happens. WBG your "I am going to be dead because of the mafia beast" inspires absolutely zero confidence in me. Last time someone said that it was Fulla, and the mafia beast attacked me instead. Now as for the MTG stuff and figuring out if town can still win this game. THIS IS MYLO, PEOPLE. I JUST REALIZED THIS BUT MY PREVIOUS PLAN WAS TERRIBLE BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE LOST IF EITHER OF THEM IS SCUM. It's currently 4 townies vs 2 scum. If we kill off 1 townie and no scum, the mafia beast kills off another townie, and it's 2v2 and we lose instantly (since per the OP mafia wins if their numbers equal town's). If we kill off 1 townie and 1 scum, then the mafia beast kills another townie and it's 2v1 LYLO tomorrow. If we kill no one then it's 3v2 LYLO tomorrow. If we kill off 2 townies and 1 scum, then the mafia beast kills another townie and it's 1v1 we lose tomorrow. WE CAN KILL OFF AT MOST ONE TOWNIE UNLESS WE KILL ALL THE SCUM TONIGHT. On July 03 2012 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mafia must eliminate all town players or have no feasible way of losing (e.g. even if town players play their cards optimally, they still can't kill the mafia before the mafia kill them. One hour until the Attack Phase starts. I don't think mafia wins in a 2v2 situation or in a 1v1 according to that post, so we really have one more cycle. This was the reasoning for your plan all along, wasn't it? You wanted to kill pretty much everyone to make it 1v1 and hope Zealos onhits prom. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:04 strongandbig wrote: REPOSTING FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE PREVIOUS PAGE: SO HERE IS THE PLAN. WE KILL MATTCHEW AND FULLA TONIGHT AND NO ONE ELSE. Here's the logic. This is MYLO, but it's a double lynch MYLO - as I explained above, we have the option to kill one person or two without losing. Picking Mattchew and Fulla makes this the hardest to disrupt, and if we kill those two we are certain to get one scum; the only realistic way we don't is if zealos is scum, and if that's the case we've lost already since town collectively is an idiot and didn't listen to me about him. I don't think a wbg/prome scum team is a possibility due to study of prome's filter; the only scummy things in there were in his interaction with Mattchew, and his actions towards Mattchew make no sense from a scum point of view unless Mattchew is scum also. If anyone thinks WBG/Prome is a possible scum team then explain why ASAP. We can't kill him in one turn (he has too many blockers) and therefore he'll have his combo before the next attack phase. Once we've killed those two, if one of them flips scum we can use relational analysis to figure out the last scum team member. Either WBG or I will be dead from the mafia monster, so the remaining players will be Zealos, Prome, and whichever of WBG or I survived. Zealos then hits the scum between WBG and Prome with his combo; even if it doesn't kill them straight away, it should bring them low enough that the other one of those two can kill them off with creatures. Zealos will have enough HP then to survive the mafia monster, and town wins. So how can we make sure scum go along with this plan? Pretty simple. First, we make sure that Mattchew and Fulla swing all their creature power at each other. If either of them haven't done this by a certain point in time - preferably halfway to the attack phase deadline - we assume that person is claiming scum and focus fire on them, and save the other one. Then, after all of their creatures are tapped, WBG and Promethelax each swing all of their creatures at one or the other of Mattchew and Fulla. They can't kill each other, so the only way this fails is if one of them is scum and decides to claim it by attacking me. I can survive an attack from WBG, since I can block his ground creatures and then sacrifice all my stuff before damage goes on the stack. Then he will have to sacrifice three of his creatures; if he leaves one of the ground guys alive all the damage will fizzle since the creature was blocked, and if he leaves one of the hovermyr I'll only take one damage and survive. The same thing goes for an attack from Promethelax; I can block all his stuff except Commander Eesha, and if I then sacrifice all my stuff he'll have to sacrifice all but Commander Eesha, which will only do 2 damage to me so I will survive. We will give WBG and Promethelax a deadline to attack with their stuff, probably something like 1 hour before the attack phase deadline. Then, Zealos uses ornithopter of doom to attack anyone who isn't following the plan. DOES EVERYONE AGREE TO THIS PLAN? that plan has multiple flaws in it... | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:10 strongandbig wrote: what are they and do you have a better one? Flaws I can point out:
I think either you misunderstands what Artanis said about how sacrificing works or I am misunderstanding it. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I still think we just need to kill Matt here. I can do 5 damage to Matt with my fliers or just 4 and he can't block that. If someone else does the other 4 damage he's dead. We can't hit into townies today. Mafia won't follow any plan anyways. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:25 strongandbig wrote: scum If mafia don't follow the plan then we'll know becuase we set a deadline. Then we kill them and save the rest. The deadline is within 5,5 hours. When is this deadline supposed to be? Right now we've got 3 people in the thread and that'S all while Matt and Prom are afk-ing like crazy. Do you really think they will come back in time? Do you really think this is a coincidence that they're afk right now? On top of that it's sunday, which means I'll take the train back to my place, so I'll be gone in 1.5 hours and will only be back 2 hours later for a short amount of time, as every sunday. Do you really think we can manage a deadline before the deadline in so little time? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:38 strongandbig wrote: why the fuck do you keep saying this why do you want me to do things before people can talk about them there's no reason to sacrifice stuff before the end of the attack phase at the very earliest You can't use abilites in the blocking-phase which means you will have to do it in the attack phase or now. That's what we're talking about all the time, isn't it? Everyone having 4 creatures tops will attack with their creatures, you will sacrifice creatures which means noone will have blockers. That means that the damage from the attacking creatures will go trough no matter what because you destroyed the blockers which means mafia could easily kill more than just one guy. If you have 3 HP and 0 creatures to block you are dead. If Fulla is on 6HP and has 0 creatures to block he will be dead. If the mafia beast attacks me I will be dead. If we attack matt he'll be dead as well. It will be 1v1 Zealos vs Prom if you sacrifice creatures during the attackphase becaue it's basicly a "creatures can't block but are able to attack" global card for everyone having 4 or less monsters. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The sacrificing ability will work as Strongandbig suggested. I will extend the block phase if neccesary to allow people time to choose. OH that changes a lot. I thought it's not possible because you told me I can't use the sacrifice ability of my AEther spellbomb during the blockingphase either, so I figured it's the same thing. Have to think about what that might change. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 09 2012 00:19 strongandbig wrote: you have six life moron he only has six damage available, total plus festering goblin seriously, what the fuck man He still has 3 mana left. He still has 5 cards left. He still has not played a thing this turn. He still has a RED deck. You know what red decks are good at? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
If he is I want to know how much so I know how much damage will go through from me, as in how many monsters will be alive. I only have 4 creatures in total and if we plan to attack Mattchew I want to know how many of them will end up dealing damage because I have to sacrifice X creatues. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 09 2012 07:59 strongandbig wrote: At the moment whether or not I sacrifice creatures depends on whether or not Matt actually attacks Fulla with everything, and what Prome does with his creatures. Okay let's rephrase it: What are you going to do if matt really attacks Fulla with: Goblin Lackey (1/1) Goblin Token (1/1) Goblin Token (1/1) Skirk Prospector (1/1) Goblin Warchief (2/2) Goblin Marshall (3/3) Goblin Piledriver (2+2X/2) That would be the worst case scenario after all and I don't think it's that unlikely. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Fulla has nothing to block at all and has 6 HP. IF S&B wipes the board matt is able to single handedly kill fulla + s&b. Here's the situation broken down: Matt has: Goblin Lackey (1/1) Goblin Token (1/1) Goblin Token (1/1) Skirk Prospector (1/1) Goblin Warchief (2/2) Goblin Marshall (3/3) Goblin Piledriver (2+2X/2) If S&B sacs all of his creatures that would mean Matt would be left with Skirk Prospector (1/1) Goblin Warchief (2/2) Goblin Marshall (3/3) Goblin Piledriver (8/2) He could attack fulla with Goblin Piledriver (8/2) reducing him to -2 HP and attack S&B with Skirk Prospector (1/1) reducing him to -3 or any other combination because neither Fulla nor S&B have something to block in this "wipe board" scenario but matt has a shitton left to attack.Goblin Warchief (2/2) Goblin Marshall (3/3) So wiping the board is a no-go imo. Have to think through and figure out if it looks better if we only wipe a single creature, two or none. Yes Matts piledriver get's way stronger that way but that's a single creature you can block with a 1/1 creature yourself because it has no blocking. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Not exactly, but kind of. Here's why: I thought this through A LOT and I can't think of big disadvantages or big advantages, however we would get a lot of information here. To get this straight, I don't think it hurts us and I don't think it will benefit us but with what prom has recently posted we desperatly need to get clarity in here and forcing everyone to sac stuff might end up revealing hidden mafia plans if there are any. We all got a pretty good idea at what people should be saccing if they are town however if we consider what they have and what would be best for town, however we might end up seeing weird stuff. I'm not really willing to get more into details here but there are several choices you can make for different people and I think we could easily break down things that way and get clarity about what people want to do this turn and not just want people say. I still don't have an idea what's going on in Matt-land or Prom-land and I honestly don't think they're telling the truth. On top of that we have Prom telling people "well we should waste our damage this turn because it doesn't matter". Prom says we're at Mylo and that's complete bullshit, we're not at Mylo, we're at Lylo right now. Just read what he's postng most recently: On July 09 2012 09:24 Promethelax wrote: Do note how niether of us will kill WBG. This attack doesn't hurt town because he is already below the mafia beast kill threshold but hurts scum if WBG is scum which I feel that he probably is. If Matt is doing enough damage to WBG to bring him to the point where I could kill him I will instead attack Zealos to weaken him in case he is scum. This is clear mafia agenda. He's basicly telling people to no-lynch and hold damage back, because after all "worst case" would be you wasted your damage on someone who is going to die either way, and telling you that's not bad at all and won't change a thing. We're at lylo right now. Every point of damage might matter in the end and it's a race against the clock before the mafia beast kills the remaining townies. How is wasting damage in that scenario not something bad? We need to kill Matt today to give ourselves another chance to stay in the game and we need to focus our damage on prom to give ourselves a chance to kill him off. Here's the same post: On July 09 2012 09:07 Promethelax wrote: You already know my thoughts on that, if you go for him I'll probably go after WBG with my follow up as well, if he is townie Mafia is already able to one shot him with their beast so it won't hurt us and if he is mafia weakening him helps a great deal. He's not even talking about what he thinks about me. He says "well if he's town I derped and it doesn't matter because he's dead anyways and if he's mafia he's not". That's not an explanation to go after someone in lylo, we need every point of damage we can get and we need people to attack who they consider to be mafia and not some "well if he's town it won't hurt so I poke him instead". Also check out how he completly changed targets over the past 48 hours. If I remember correctly the only reason he considered me to be a mafia is that I was fosing multiple people early on. Well newsflash, I did not know how is town and who is mafia before the game started. Reads change over the game and people are wrong. I ended up being wrong on Grey and I ended up being fooled by wifom badly. But here's how reading people works: You have a somewhat bad idea early on. Usually you get a couple of green reads early on, maybe a couple of red reads but you're not sure at all, not on d1 and most times not on d2 as well although people keep saying otherwise to sound confident in their reads to make people follow them. Most interesting is this fact: Reads start out weak and get better and better over the course of action. Prom basicly said I am mafia because I was not certain about someone early on and attacked multiple people. Do you people really think that is something that mafias do? Or more importantly, do you think that is something townies don't do? I can only speak for myself but I don't usually figure out 100% mafia by the end of d1 calling every single name without calling more names than having mafia in the game. Do you? So really there is no point in saying "Well toad is suspicious because he was suspicious of multiple people early on". If anything that's a fucking town tell because of course I'm not sure about my reads early on. If you would waltz in the thread telling people otherwise that sounds more confident that you should be and therefore you're either overconfident or mafia having more information. As mentioned, reads start out shaky and with every day they should get better as you get more and more information about what's going on (unless of course you already have all the information needed, right prom? :p). That's what's happening in camp-Toad. Reads were a little all over the place early on because I said I consider 4 people to be scummy d1 or possible mafias and now I'm certain it's got to be Matt and Prom. Again, Prom says that's something weird but it's really not at all, it's normal for people starting with no information and gaining more information to work with over the course of action. Now on to the important part: Look at how proms reads are changing COMPLETLY over the course of 24 hours that late in the game. Prom however was the completly opposite here. He said very little about reads early on when it should be easy to say at least something, he never really attacked someone and always keeps half of his stuff untapped for something and he suddenly chickens out like a mad mad. He said I'm mafia and matt is mafia as well 24 hours ago. Now he's willing to attack Zealos instead, or even Fulla. Way to go, it's Lylo with 5 people other than you alive "well I think those 4 might end up being mafia, but just maybe". So really, I think we have all the prove we need to consider both Matt and Prom mafia at this point and should go all attack on them. However, I'd like to see s&b sacrifice one creature to check what Prom is doing as it's not changing a thing anyways. Is he going to sac his useless blocker or is he to afraid to sac something that can block fliers when Zealos has a 10/2 flier and instead sac something that actually could be used in a good way, aka attacking someone? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
If Zealos is indeed Zealos, Mattchew is probably Mattchew and has only 8 HP while Zealos can kill him without a problem. What exactly makes you think that Zealos would even think about attacking you instead of Mattchew in that scenario? More importantly, we are talking about a creature that loses that power the next cycle, so it would be only for this very cycle. More importantly Zealos is attacking Mattchew and I am most likely WBG according to you. Mafiabuddies Zealos and WBG doing whatever we're doing right now, yet you want to attack Fulla Am I really the only one who thinks this story of yours might not make sense at all? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 01:55 strongandbig wrote: Toad where you at? You're European right? I'm here but as people apparently agree to play the "long game" and waste damage "because it's not hurting town if we attack someone who's already below mafia treshhold" in lylo I don't really see the point of posting anything right now. If you guys think that not attacking mafia is anything but a straight up lose and you don't even realize that I won't be able to convince you anyways. So no idea what to do. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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