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On June 25 2012 10:12 Oberyn wrote:
Artanis, do we have to make all our moves from the "Main phase" in the same go?
Like, can I cast an island now...but cast another creature/sorcery later in the same phase? Or does it have to be in one go?
You can cast things at different times, as long as you have the mana for it.
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On June 25 2012 09:52 WereBugs-Go wrote:
I think this game will play a little like igroks irc SSB considering the mechanics, that's why I thought it's funny. If gonzaw had posted that, whatever I don't recall him playing those funny set-ups a lot but you played quite some SSB as well yet you posted something like that.
In SSB, the mafia kp remains constant at 1. It takes five turns to kill a player assuming there are no lynches. In this setup, the mafia kp is unblockable and grows more powerful each turn. At the start it takes two turns for them to kill a player. Endgame it takes one turn to kill a player. I don't think playing for late game is the best idea.
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On June 25 2012 10:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 10:12 Oberyn wrote:
Artanis, do we have to make all our moves from the "Main phase" in the same go?
Like, can I cast an island now...but cast another creature/sorcery later in the same phase? Or does it have to be in one go? You can cast things at different times, as long as you have the mana for it.
Okay
I'll cast an Island...hope I don't fuck up
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On June 25 2012 10:19 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 09:52 WereBugs-Go wrote:
I think this game will play a little like igroks irc SSB considering the mechanics, that's why I thought it's funny. If gonzaw had posted that, whatever I don't recall him playing those funny set-ups a lot but you played quite some SSB as well yet you posted something like that. In SSB, the mafia kp remains constant at 1. It takes five turns to kill a player assuming there are no lynches. In this setup, the mafia kp is unblockable and grows more powerful each turn. At the start it takes two turns for them to kill a player. Endgame it takes one turn to kill a player. I don't think playing for late game is the best idea.
Holy shit who posted this?
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Damn kita is logged in in this account as well?
I didn't think it was possible lol
So kita, do we cast some island or not?
/gonzaw
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Anyways, any ideas on the deck claim thingy? At least on the theme of it.
That way if we find a group of townies we can cooperate with each other using the knowledge of each other's decks to take down scum.
Also, would it be possible that Mafia use their own 4/1 beast to target themselves? If they have too many HP, they may attack themselves to "confirm" themselves as town right? Or will they just always hit the "most pro-town guy" every time?
/gonzaw
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On June 25 2012 10:27 Oberyn wrote:
Anyways, any ideas on the deck claim thingy? At least on the theme of it.
That way if we find a group of townies we can cooperate with each other using the knowledge of each other's decks to take down scum.
Also, would it be possible that Mafia use their own 4/1 beast to target themselves? If they have too many HP, they may attack themselves to "confirm" themselves as town right? Or will they just always hit the "most pro-town guy" every time?
/gonzaw
Attacking themselves would be akin to mafia voting or putting pressure on each other in any other game. It should be treated as such
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On June 25 2012 10:42 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 10:27 Oberyn wrote:
Anyways, any ideas on the deck claim thingy? At least on the theme of it.
That way if we find a group of townies we can cooperate with each other using the knowledge of each other's decks to take down scum.
Also, would it be possible that Mafia use their own 4/1 beast to target themselves? If they have too many HP, they may attack themselves to "confirm" themselves as town right? Or will they just always hit the "most pro-town guy" every time?
/gonzaw
Attacking themselves would be akin to mafia voting or putting pressure on each other in any other game. It should be treated as such
But a single meaningless vote/bus doesn't have any permanent consequences (i.e they vote their scumbuddy once, and that's it, in the future that action would have no in-game relevance)
However here the consequences are permanent, mostly they'll have 8 or 16 HP less, which they can't get back.
Would it be a viable strategy for scum to do this? Maybe they can do it in the 1st Attack phase since the monster has the least Power?
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What I mean is mafia attacking each other with their 8/1 unblockable creature, not attacking each other with their own monsters.
I say that because for the 1st 2 rounds, scum may not kill someone with their "KP"; which can mean that the guy attacked (but not killed) will be confirmed town, and we can get all other players to play using that knowledge (maybe giving him more life if they have a Forest deck, etc).
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I'm going to be doing thread updates using Artanis' account. If it's me responding in a PM as Artanis, I'll sign it.
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I've been thinking about the idea of a mass deck claim.
Here are my thoughts (feel free to point out how I am totally wrong):
A mass deck claim will give us all of the detriments of blue claiming without any of the benefits. If mafia know our decks they will know who to take out early and who they can leave alive into the late game. Without giving ourselves any benefit from the knowledge a blue claim would give us we will give the mafia the knowledge they need in terms of which of us to eliminate early.
Additionally, if we agree that we should not kill anyone(not stack our attacks) should we all agree who to attack and all of us refrain from blocking since we want the mafia down to low life while if a townie is at 10 or at 2 the mafia beast will still be able to kill just one of us. This obviously isn't a problem yet since none of us have played creatures with haste.
Before we received our role PMs I was thinking about what would happen if I rolled mafia and I think the risk of attacking one of their own with the beast could pay off. No one should be presumed innocent just because they have been the victim of the beast.
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So...what do we do now? We regularly scumhunt, then pray our decks/cards allow us to play according to our reads?
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On June 25 2012 12:12 Oberyn wrote:
So...what do we do now? We regularly scumhunt, then pray our decks/cards allow us to play according to our reads?
I think regularly scumhunting is a given.
The main question IMO is whether we try and implement some kind of system for organizing who attacks who, with some kind of voting involved - or if everyone should just attack / play contrary to the person they think is the scummiest.
I think the latter would be sort of like "voting with your creatures" - the problem is that it would mean that people who have more powerful decks at any given point in time would sort of "have more votes".
That's also another problem the town will have to deal with - some people's decks will be more powerful than others at different stages of the game.
The upside to the "voting with your creatures" plan is that it gives us more solid information. If you're actually reducing someone's life points (or their capability to block) then it kind of means you have to be more serious about it than you would if you were just doing a "pressure vote" on someone or basically doing anything in a normal mafia game other than seriously pushing a lynch.
My suggestion would be that for the first few days we actually require everyone to attack with all of their creatures. This would force scum to take stands that we could analyze. It's like a better version of the shitty "make everyone make cases" plan, except this time there are actual consequences to the actions we force people to take.
I'm a little bit drunk right now so this could be a terrible idea but at the moment I think it's a pretty good one. Tell me what you think.
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On June 24 2012 21:44 WereBugs-Go wrote:
Oh btw, that's the hydra Marv and I will be using this game. Might want to add it to the filter list?
what the fuck
e: is this inception mafia?
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On June 25 2012 12:38 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 12:12 Oberyn wrote:
So...what do we do now? We regularly scumhunt, then pray our decks/cards allow us to play according to our reads? I think regularly scumhunting is a given. The main question IMO is whether we try and implement some kind of system for organizing who attacks who, with some kind of voting involved - or if everyone should just attack / play contrary to the person they think is the scummiest. I think the latter would be sort of like "voting with your creatures" - the problem is that it would mean that people who have more powerful decks at any given point in time would sort of "have more votes". That's also another problem the town will have to deal with - some people's decks will be more powerful than others at different stages of the game. The upside to the "voting with your creatures" plan is that it gives us more solid information. If you're actually reducing someone's life points (or their capability to block) then it kind of means you have to be more serious about it than you would if you were just doing a "pressure vote" on someone or basically doing anything in a normal mafia game other than seriously pushing a lynch. My suggestion would be that for the first few days we actually require everyone to attack with all of their creatures. This would force scum to take stands that we could analyze. It's like a better version of the shitty "make everyone make cases" plan, except this time there are actual consequences to the actions we force people to take. I'm a little bit drunk right now so this could be a terrible idea but at the moment I think it's a pretty good one. Tell me what you think.
Would it be a good idea to at least claim which cards we have on our hands at each time?
Because we can't plan shit if the only thing we know about other players is the creatures/artifacts/stuff they have in play and their lands.
Meh I barely know shit about Magic so planning that stuff would be hard in the first place, but it's harder if we don't know anything.
/G
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On June 25 2012 13:09 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 12:38 strongandbig wrote:On June 25 2012 12:12 Oberyn wrote:
So...what do we do now? We regularly scumhunt, then pray our decks/cards allow us to play according to our reads? I think regularly scumhunting is a given. The main question IMO is whether we try and implement some kind of system for organizing who attacks who, with some kind of voting involved - or if everyone should just attack / play contrary to the person they think is the scummiest. I think the latter would be sort of like "voting with your creatures" - the problem is that it would mean that people who have more powerful decks at any given point in time would sort of "have more votes". That's also another problem the town will have to deal with - some people's decks will be more powerful than others at different stages of the game. The upside to the "voting with your creatures" plan is that it gives us more solid information. If you're actually reducing someone's life points (or their capability to block) then it kind of means you have to be more serious about it than you would if you were just doing a "pressure vote" on someone or basically doing anything in a normal mafia game other than seriously pushing a lynch. My suggestion would be that for the first few days we actually require everyone to attack with all of their creatures. This would force scum to take stands that we could analyze. It's like a better version of the shitty "make everyone make cases" plan, except this time there are actual consequences to the actions we force people to take. I'm a little bit drunk right now so this could be a terrible idea but at the moment I think it's a pretty good one. Tell me what you think. Would it be a good idea to at least claim which cards we have on our hands at each time? Because we can't plan shit if the only thing we know about other players is the creatures/artifacts/stuff they have in play and their lands. Meh I barely know shit about Magic so planning that stuff would be hard in the first place, but it's harder if we don't know anything. /G
Why do we need to plan how to play our cards? I still think giving that knowledge to mafia hurts us more than it helps us. Why do you think otherwise?
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EBWOP
That sounded a lot dumber than I intended. What I meant is: what are the benefits of planning out how to play our cards as Town that outweigh the obvious detriment of Mafia knowing our individual capabilities?
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On June 25 2012 13:16 Promethelax wrote:
EBWOP
That sounded a lot dumber than I intended. What I meant is: what are the benefits of planning out how to play our cards as Town that outweigh the obvious detriment of Mafia knowing our individual capabilities?
1)We'll know what cards mafia have on their hands as well, so if we plan in a consensus what each player should do, they have to follow that and can't do something else
2)We can make those plans in the first place. Like most of us agree to "lynch" player X, so we make a "plan" using all but X's cards (in our hands).
For instance, imagine this 3v1 at Main Phase scenario:
There are players A, B, C and X, X is mafia, A,B and C realize this and decide to kill him.
These are the cards in play and in hand:
Player A:
HP: 5
Board: Mountain
Hand: Lightning Bolt
Player B:
HP: 8
Board: 3 Lands
Hand: A 4/4 monster
Player C:
HP: 4
Board: Some Swamps
Hand: An "Enchanted creature gets +2/+2" card
Player X:
HP: 5
Board: A monster with 3 defense (or whatever the -/X number is), The 10/1 "Mafia KP" beast
If nobody knows each other's cards, then perhaps X would play lighning bolt and target X, which would drop him -3 HP. Then B summons his monster, targets X, but X blocks him with the monster of his. Player C does nothing.
End result:
Player X has 3 less HP, and survives.
He uses his 10/1 KP beast to kill player B.
Next turn C and A don't get any good cards, player X uses his 12/1 KP beast to kill player A.
He is 1v1 with player C and mafia win
What if they plan?
Player A can use Lightning Bolt to target X's monster with 3 defense and destroy it.
Player B summons his 4/4 monster
Player C casts the "Enchanted creature gets +2/+2" enchantment and uses it on B's monster
Player B attacks X and deals him 6 damage
End result:
Player X has 6 less HP, and dies
Town (A, B and C) win.
As you can see, if nobody knows what each other cards are in this case it would be almost impossible to kill player X unless they luckily did all of the above blindly.
But if they know each other's cards in their hands, they can plan to do this and kill X.
These are the situations I'm refering to.
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EBWOP:
If nobody knows each other's cards, then perhaps X would play lighning bolt and target X, which would drop him -3 HP. Then B summons his monster, targets X, but X blocks him with the monster of his. Player C does nothing.
Should read:
If nobody knows each other's cards, then perhaps A would play lightning bolt and target X, which would drop him -3 HP.
Then B summons his 4/4 monster, and C does nothing
In the Attack Phase, B attacks X with hsi 4/4 monster, but X blocks him with his -/3 one.
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On June 25 2012 13:35 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 13:16 Promethelax wrote:
EBWOP
That sounded a lot dumber than I intended. What I meant is: what are the benefits of planning out how to play our cards as Town that outweigh the obvious detriment of Mafia knowing our individual capabilities? 1)We'll know what cards mafia have on their hands as well, so if we plan in a consensus what each player should do, they have to follow that and can't do something else 2)We can make those plans in the first place. Like most of us agree to "lynch" player X, so we make a "plan" using all but X's cards (in our hands). For instance, imagine this 3v1 at Main Phase scenario: There are players A, B, C and X, X is mafia, A,B and C realize this and decide to kill him. These are the cards in play and in hand: Player A:HP: 5 Board: Mountain Hand: Lightning Bolt Player B:HP: 8 Board: 3 Lands Hand: A 4/4 monster Player C:HP: 4 Board: Some Swamps Hand: An "Enchanted creature gets +2/+2" card Player X:HP: 5 Board: A monster with 3 defense (or whatever the -/X number is), The 10/1 "Mafia KP" beast If nobody knows each other's cards, then perhaps X would play lighning bolt and target X, which would drop him -3 HP. Then B summons his monster, targets X, but X blocks him with the monster of his. Player C does nothing. End result:Player X has 3 less HP, and survives. He uses his 10/1 KP beast to kill player B. Next turn C and A don't get any good cards, player X uses his 12/1 KP beast to kill player A. He is 1v1 with player C and mafia win What if they plan? Player A can use Lightning Bolt to target X's monster with 3 defense and destroy it. Player B summons his 4/4 monster Player C casts the "Enchanted creature gets +2/+2" enchantment and uses it on B's monster Player B attacks X and deals him 6 damage End result: Player X has 6 less HP, and dies Town (A, B and C) win. As you can see, if nobody knows what each other cards are in this case it would be almost impossible to kill player X unless they luckily did all of the above blindly. But if they know each other's cards in their hands, they can plan to do this and kill X. These are the situations I'm refering to.
Yeah, I'm with you there. I guess I didn't make myself clear. I see great benefit in the late game for us when we have good reads and can really work together.
I don't see the benefit in the here and now.
If we all form a consensus on what each player should do the mafia would, it seems to me, be able to just play along for a while and we wouldn't gain any information from who each person chose to attack. Although I guess the discussion we would have leading up to those decisions would give us enough material to replace what we would learn from individual actions.
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EPT
