EPTEmergency Mini Mafia! - Page 12
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
And while your at it, I'd like to see a good analysis from you on BH. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
Wouldn't people get suspicious if there is only one death when the vigilante claims to have shot somebody? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
@VE So please explain, is what you just posted about furer your case on Panda? Is it a supplement to your case? (if so please give the actual case and answer the question I've been talking to BH about) Do you still even want to lynch Panda first or are you going to switch to furer now? | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm not going to go post by post, but I'll give a general overview using posts in my explanation. Please don't call it cherry-picking, because that's not what it is. I'm not just picking out scummy posts from his myriad of town-lookng posts...the fact of the matter is that Pandain's filter is relatively short, and the stances he's chosen to take are easy stances for Mafia to take. On June 06 2012 01:30 Pandain wrote: There is too much talk on VE and Furer. To start out, claiming miller was indeed a good move if town. It gives information to us and suggests that as blues we not check him, allowing us to use our powers on other people. VE is almost certainly town. There's a small chance he's a badass serial killer, but for him to have claimed(vulnerable to counterclaims) requires an element of risk which I do not think the SK would use. There is almost certainily not 2 millers in this setup, as having two "false" townies, as well as all the other Alignment-Confusing roles would just decimate the cop's role. Since the risk of being counterclaimed would be so damning, I do not think that VE would have claimed miller if he was mafia/SK. Especially so soon as the day started. Furer is just playing poorly, but his play does not reek of scum. He voted rashly against VE, the very first(and only) vote so far. I do not think mafia would risk bringing so much attention to themselves. He's not only single handedly try to lynch VE, but he's done it with a reckless aura that excludes mafia. I think Mr. Zentor is very suspicious, and should be looked at instead. He's offered very weak arguments, suggesting he does not want to force his opinion onto the town. He's offered vague statements that do not really put himself out there("a bit rash", "would probably", "I think, but we should") which do not prove him being mafia but merely cause me to be watchful. I am also somewhat suspicious of Navillus, but it is more of a general feeling than specific evidence. Here we see his take on the miller claim. The correct one, mind you - this is absolutely the reason my miller claim can be trusted/ignored. However, as a player well-versed in Mafia, Pandain realizes this as well as I do...so he immediately gains townie points from me as a result. Next we see his take on Furer. Look at the language he employs..."voted rashly"..."reckless aura that excludes mafia". However, his reckless behavior was not only rendered useless the moment he backpedaled when no one agreed with him, but nothing he's done "excludes" the possibility of him being mafia. He can't know what scum are thinking if he's town, and you certainly can't say that Furer doing something unequivocally excludes him from being scum. He's speaking with a certainty that reeks of having more information than I do. Finally this post shows his suspicion of MrZentor - a suspicion I shared at the beginning of the cycle. However, in his very next post the only mention there is of MrZentor is as a tool against who he ends up voting for, Blzinghand. On June 06 2012 10:57 Pandain wrote: I'm going to have to agree with Katrina in that BH is playing awfully weird. I haven't actually ever played a game with him(though I have observed), but the fact remains he has drastically changed his playstyle in the last day or so. More importantly, its the way that he's accusing. It feels like he's trying to make an argument rather than find scum, as all his arguments start out with the mindset that he is scum. Case in point is Mr. Z, where he refers to him being scum on the basis of "he didn't have the balls to"... etc.... That's a really common scum mistake imo. Scum tries so hard to make a case that they end up being aggressive on a personal level, almost condenscending. Townies could act that way, but only if it was part of a larger, more intense debate. ##Vote Blazinghand Interestingly enough, he is exhibiting the exact same behavior he is accusing BH of now that I've expressed disinterest in his claim and have voted for him. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Now, I've reached my consecutive post limit for this game, so I'm going to crash. Everyone should consider lynching Pandain if for no other reason than because he was more interested in shitting up the thread with speculation about his illusory vig-shot than he was about finding the best lynch for the day. Night Liquidia. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 06 2012 11:58 Pandain wrote: Do you really think VE would claim miller, and risk being counterclaimed, if he wasn't actually the miller? Do you really think theres a significant chance(>90%) of that? Yes. I've played with VE before, so yes. He's not on my scumlist because he's playing aggressively and pro-town as I would expect him to-- however, his claim doesn't factor into that. ALL his claim tells me, and all it should tell ANYONE, is that a DT check on him isn't worthwhile, and you should keep an eye on him to make up for it. On June 06 2012 11:58 Pandain wrote: Same goes with me. If there was a real vigi and he wanted to claim, he'd do so overnight rather than risk the possibility of scum having a roleblocker. Given that several times you've mentioned that your claim might be fake, this would make a counter claim less likely, since a vigi might not even be 100% sure you're scum just from your claim (though your subsequent actions do out you as scum). On June 06 2012 11:58 Pandain wrote: In regards to additional blue roles, masons aren't really a blue role. I doubt there are masons in this setup, but that doesn't mean we won't have an additional blue role. Masons aren't a power role. They were never even meant to be used in the way I'm envisioning them to. If there's 2 masons and a vigi, there's like 0 chance there's additional town PRs. furthermore, the idea that masons claiming wouldn't occur to WBG is utterly preposterous. Of COURSE he'd think of that possibility when he designed the setup. But that's all I have to say on masons or the setup. Clearly, if we do have masons, they're smart and agree with me rather than you. On June 06 2012 12:19 Pandain wrote: I'm not going to get lynched because its retarded reasoning. I'll let other people defend myself. BH you doing an OMGUS on me doesn't help your case either. Honestly, when you first made your case against me I didn't think you were scum. The fact that you reacted to the mildest pressure with this "accidental" roleclaim, you insist on potential masons claiming during the day (to the point of like multiple pages with the discussion on it), and your flip-flopping on MrZ and Navi (and only coming back to talking about them after I pointed out the contradictions in your ignoring them) all eventually led me to believe you aren't just weird, you're scum. Like, if you're town, wouldn't you (instead of self-voting) just make a decent defense of yourself, or try to be otherwise helpful when people vote you? In theory that should be near the top of your list of priorities, rather than just bailing out. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 06 2012 14:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Now, I've reached my consecutive post limit for this game, so I'm going to crash. Everyone should consider lynching Pandain if for no other reason than because he was more interested in shitting up the thread with speculation about his illusory vig-shot than he was about finding the best lynch for the day. Now I kinda don't know what to say to you VE cause we're agreeing a lot this game, but this is actually something that I missed out on. I'd like to add a bit to this. The town mentality is that the game takes place during the day. Even if you're a vigi or a DT or a JK, your night actions are either limited to once per game (as a vigi) or are used to support your day actions (as a DT or JK). Voting and talking about lynches your main tools to get mafia. Without thinking about it, you're naturally thinking about the day more, and thinking about what happens during the day more, than a scum player would. As mafia, most of your agency revolves around the night-- that's when you're safe from the lynch, town's tool to catch you, and you can direct your KP. Mafia will naturally think more about the night, and in terms of night actions. The fact that Pandain wanted to draw attention AWAY from the lynch (especially at a time when most people were already voting for me) is weird and NOT something a town player would do. Granted, this is somewhat mitigated from the fact that he claimed vigi and has a kp, but it's ties in with Pandain's goal of shitting up the thread. Look at how he evades the topic of other lynches until it becomes a problem for him, and how he got into discussions about the way he worded his claim, what he plans on doing with his so-called vigi shot, and insisting on some terrible mason claim, shitting up the thread and preventing real discussion from happening. This is a good supporting evidence, VE. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 06 2012 13:05 Navillus wrote: BH I still don't see the actual advantage mafia gains, as MrZ pointed out the best they're getting out of this pretty risky play is someone who is tentatively confirmed as the "vig's" shot would be the only shot that night so obviously town would realize that it's possible it's just mafia, beyond that Panda hasn't even really been going for the "I'm confirmed listen to me" angle so I don't think that this makes sense as a mafia fakeclaim where they try to get one of their guys as some big confirmed townie. Look at it this way: If scum claims DT or JK or something, they have to constantly produce results. If scum claims vigi, all they have to do is call the N1 shot, and then they don't have to do anything for the rest of the game as far as confirming their claim goes. They won't be confirmed town, but it won't be an obvious falseclaim or a constant pressure like having to come back with DT or JK checks every night would be... Vigi is by far the easiest. On June 06 2012 12:19 Navillus wrote: Also whether he's town or scum one thing he brought up needs to be noticed. way too many people are getting away with lurking frankly with this many people getting to avoid posting anything of substance I wouldn't be surprised if 2 or 3 scum aren't even posting enough to get looked at. Zelblade, Hyaach, Furer, and maybe to a lesser degree Kat all need to post on something recent and give their opinions. Don't forget Artanis, who has been lurking as long as furerkip. I have to say, though, out of that group, Artanis was by far the most helpful out of them. So what's new, Artanis? Tell me your thoughts on Pandain. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12970 Posts
@VE I'm still not statisfied with Ghost, but I found Navillus a better target since I felt his post disconnect was bigger than that of Ghost. Whereas Ghost could've just been lazy/sarcastic, Navillus' post attacked one person, yet voted on another, which is classic scum in my textbook, since it's something he could fall back on at any time. Though these two definitely aren't cleared, I feel Pandain is the biggest scum suspect out of the three for the reasons mentioned above, and would be most happy with his head today. ##Unvote ##Vote: Pandain | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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Shraft
Sweden701 Posts
On June 06 2012 01:30 Pandain wrote: There is too much talk on VE and Furer. To start out, claiming miller was indeed a good move if town. It gives information to us and suggests that as blues we not check him, allowing us to use our powers on other people. + Show Spoiler [Rest of the post] + VE is almost certainly town. There's a small chance he's a badass serial killer, but for him to have claimed(vulnerable to counterclaims) requires an element of risk which I do not think the SK would use. There is almost certainily not 2 millers in this setup, as having two "false" townies, as well as all the other Alignment-Confusing roles would just decimate the cop's role. Since the risk of being counterclaimed would be so damning, I do not think that VE would have claimed miller if he was mafia/SK. Especially so soon as the day started. Furer is just playing poorly, but his play does not reek of scum. He voted rashly against VE, the very first(and only) vote so far. I do not think mafia would risk bringing so much attention to themselves. He's not only single handedly try to lynch VE, but he's done it with a reckless aura that excludes mafia. I think Mr. Zentor is very suspicious, and should be looked at instead. He's offered very weak arguments, suggesting he does not want to force his opinion onto the town. He's offered vague statements that do not really put himself out there("a bit rash", "would probably", "I think, but we should") which do not prove him being mafia but merely cause me to be watchful. I am also somewhat suspicious of Navillus, but it is more of a general feeling than specific evidence. It looks like he's trying to steer the town in the right direction in his first post, but later he comes in and derails the thread onto a 2-page argumentation about masons that doesn't really give us anything. His claim seems stupid (if not anti-town, considering how much he managed to shit up the thread). At any rate, Pandain seems to be more interested in arguing game mechanics and game setup than finding scum. I'm happy with a lynch on either Pandain or Navillus, and currently I think that I'd rather have Pandain hanging from the gallows. ##Vote Pandain | ||
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Shraft
Sweden701 Posts
On June 06 2012 21:59 ghost_403 wrote: I'll catch up on the thread in a bit, but I still have no idea why people think Navillus is scum. If no one can point me to a case, I'll have to work it out myself, and I don't want to do that because I'm really lazy. I think Artanis meant this post when he talked about my case on Navillus. | ||
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Shraft
Sweden701 Posts
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