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On June 06 2012 12:11 MrZentor wrote:
I do agree that the "accidental claim" looks a bit forced.
It could be that he claimed later as a vanilla town to act as a target.
I'm starting to think it's more likely that he's scum though, as why would he lie about accidentally claiming instead of saying that he was breadcrumbing if he were vanilla town?
You mean this post? I'm not at all surprised why I overlooked it.
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Katina, I appreciate that you have other alternatives in mind...but could you give your full thoughts on the guy with the most votes on him please? It would be extremely telling of your alignment, and gosh, I really would just like to hear more from you anyway. What do you say?
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Golly Gee VE, nothing would make me happier than to fulfill your request.
I talked about Pandian a little bit in my last post. I don't know if I completely believe his claim. He wasn't too suspicious until he claimed. I'm not comfortable enough in my suspicions of him to lynch him just yet. I would prefer if he lived a bit longer so we can see more from him. There's always the possibilty that he could be telling the truth as well.
Like I said he is going to be lynched soon so there's not much more to say on the matter.
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So no comment on my case on him? It had very little to do with his claim after all, and you mention that he wasn't suspicious before the claim. Since my case has to do mostly with his behavior before the claim, I'd be interested to hear your opinion of it. Am I full of shit? Do I make some valid points? I'm just trying to get everyone's opinions IN THE THREAD, for all of us to see, so we can get the most out of the lynch. Nothing wrong with that is there?
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Where else would I be giving my opinions?
You have some valid points in your case but I'm still not comfortable lynching him today. If the town believes he's a good candidate then by all means lynch him.
I think we would have been better off with a Blazinghand lynch. All the signs are there for him.
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Can you explain why BH's actions can only mean that he's scum? Like, why is his change in demeanor indicative of him being scum and CAN NOT indicate that he's just subdued town BH?
I mean, I understand what you're saying, I do...but I'm trying to give BH the benefit of the doubt where all of that is concerned. The crux of your case is that his posts seem "forced" and that's completely subjective...I don't think they're forced at all, so where does that leave your case exactly?
Like, for the same reason you want to see more out of Pandain, I want to see more out of BH...because I think his actions are going to be telling where I feel like his tone is not...do you not agree?
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Sorry my internet went down, to my great terror.
Can't believe you lynched me, but tells alot.
Look at ghost, BH, Zellblade
Then next Artanis, Hyaach, Zentor
Katrina, shaft,Navillus VE are town.
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And fyi for future lynches, playing weird/shady does not equal scum. I was going to pound that into you guys, and teach a lesson while being saved, but unfortunately its too late(lynch is over, right?)
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I'll explain my actions after the game.
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Also VE go back and look at my posts, and realize how what I did doesn't make sense from an SK or a mafia perspective. For the same reason as why you were innocent when you claimed miller.
It'll help you for future games.
This was a horrible lynch, but gl guys
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The difference is that I didn't try and derail the lynch discussion AFTER my claim Pandain, where you did. You're not innocent for the same reasons as me, you're not innocent at all. Even if you flip town, which I find extraordinarily unlikely, you took it upon yourself to not only derail current lynch discussion after your claim, but TRY AND CONVINCE TOWN POWER ROLES TO CLAIM.
I mean, I get what you wanted to accomplish - Sandroba and Jcarlson did just that in the forst C9++ Bugs ran...but they were not only 2 veteran(ish) players who were likely to get medic protection anyway, but at least Sandroba had the added bonus of being a killer scumhunter. There was a REASON they claimed in that game, and it worked out BECAUSE of that reason.
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I just got back and unless I'm wrong we're 40 minutes to lynch so I doubt that it will move off of Pandian but I will say that I'm very happy with my vote where it is for a couple reasons.
First I do not like the Pandain lynch for two reasons, one is what I was saying before I got off yesterday, I really don't see the reason for the claim, BH tried to explain it as him trying to become a confirmed townie but as someone pointed out before I could, no sane town would ever actually see the vig claim and believe him just because the person he called got shot if there's not extra shot to account for the mafia, this means that the best the claim does is get some gullible townies to think he's confirmed while to everyone else he's shot into the spotlight and aside from risking one of the few mafia it puts them in a worse situation as they'll likely have to use their shot that night on a target town tells them to or have their "vig" disobey what town tells him and become even less believable.
The second reason is simply that I think it''s a bad idea to lynch a claimed blue on the first day, we can check him to a degree this night and if he's scum he's not going anywhere, their kp stays the same night to night anyway, also looking through how his lynch has gone since I left it built up steam very quickly and I'm sure that if he's town or SK that we'll find at least a couple scum on his wagon. (on that note I do see a real possibility that he's SK but if that's the case after telling him to shoot someone specific tonight if there are two kills tomorrow night we know to lynch him)
The second reason that I'm happy with my vote in general is much simpler
On June 06 2012 22:45 Hyaach wrote:
Late to the party but did no one thought that Pand was fishing for information when he asked Masons to claim?
He could very likely be a SK as well but either way his scum.
I voted Hyaach explaining that he needed to contribute more and that it's scummy to lurk and not help town, after being specifically called out on it this is the best he gives us, it has to be made clear that lurking like this is very anti-town so I am in full support of moving the lynch to him.
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Ehh I wrote that up a little while ago and just reread the last sentence, I don't actually think we can move the lynch this late so amend that to I'm in full support of lynching hyaach tomorrow.
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No the mason thing was the right move. Having two confirmed town off the bat? I mean come on! That's way better than even the chance of losing a cop(which wasn't certain, and offset by having medics.)
And its false to say I derailed lynch discussion, I strengenthed it. Way more people talked, and (ironically enough) with my death you guys have more information than two days worth. If I would've lived, this would've been a great achievement for me. But alas internet is the vehicle of technology, and it ran out of gas.
I made BH talk way more, and had him reveal more information about himself(threatened to be killed + lynched) than we probably would have seen from him in a while. Big change from his previous hours.
And if you honestly think I'm scum, then you need to rethink this game. And you need to remember what I told you, which is something I learned from Foolishness many games ago. People do stupid stuff(in my case I don't think it's stupid, but that's subjective and can be proven after the game.) Bad townies =/= scum. Playing shady does NOT equal scummy!
How did I play scummy?
"Derailed town arguments" false
"Tried to get power roles to claim" They're fucking masons man, and they would be two confirmed town. Even a cop couldn't do that for at least four days.
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Wait I'm still alive? Fuck this.
I'm living as hard as I can.
I don't feel there's enough support for BH, so I'm going to push for another suspicious individual, Hyaach.
##Unvote Pandain
##Vote Hyaach
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Pandain, you can't blame us for lynching you this day. We were analyzing players based on posts and then you came in saying "oh hey guys I'm vigilante also if there's masons they should claim because it's great for town. Can we talk about that instead of doing actual scumhunting please?" If for some reason you are in fact town, then you've played an anti-town game as you broke a good town atmosphere.
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No one is lynching you for being a bad townie Pandain...at least I'm not. I'm lynching you because I think you're scum.
Players like you don't "accidentally" blue slip, if you expect me to believe that...
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Shouldn't you see how the lynch works out before you decide to pressure someone base? you FoS on someone other and random vote on me makes me think you wanna fish for information rather than pressure me given the number of lurkers at the time when you vote me ?
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Quick, Obvious Defense of How I'm Not Scum in a Million Years
1. Mafia would never claim vigi, and they wouldn't have let a bandwagon slip up on me so easily(when before, the lynches on BH didn't incite a bandwagon like this). There would have been some sort of counter vote planned.
a. Brings unneccesary attention, doesn't actually help mafia at all(Doesn't gain town cred, merely brings attention to me)
b. Could've been counterclaimed(Super suspicion)
2. Notice the lack of resistance, and a lack of a counter vote which ALWAYS happens, even if slightly. Usually they try to stack up on people. Unless its 100% obvious but I'm far, far , FAR from that assumption.
3. Really, the only possibility is that I am SK. But why would SK do that. It brings me to the attention of mafia, and town. Sure, it may provide cover for shootings, but vigilantes have limited shooting ability while SK is unlimited. I would've been 90% auto found out within a number of days.
a. Also, I would probably be checked, and found guilty.
b. If I instead had decided to pick Appear Innocent, I would be vulnerable to getting shot. And as I've said before, I'm heavily urging medics NOT to protect me, so claiming actually wouldn't have helped at ALL.
What I did was suspicious. I don't deny that.
But its not at all scum
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Day 1 Vote Count
VisceraEyes (1)
furerkip
Blazinghand (1)
Katina
Snarfs
VisceraEyes
ghost_403
Pandain
ghost_403 (0)
VisceraEyes
MrZentor
hyaach (3)
Navillus
Snarfs
Pandain
MrZentor (1)
Blazinghand
VisceraEyes
ghost_403
Navillus (0)
Artanis[Xp]
MrZentor
Pandain (7)
VisceraEyes
Blazinghand
Pandain
Artanis[Xp]
Shraft
zelblade
Hyaach
MrZentor
Pandain is currently set to be lynched. The day ends in 10 minutes at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Pandain leads with 7 votes.
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EPT
