EPTIf you accept that as possible reasoning, then his motivation isn't clear any more, because he could have been acting according to his suspicion of all candidates. That's the only reasoning I've got for him not swapping his vote at the end.
TL Mafia LV - Page 78
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
If you accept that as possible reasoning, then his motivation isn't clear any more, because he could have been acting according to his suspicion of all candidates. That's the only reasoning I've got for him not swapping his vote at the end. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:17 Probulous wrote: Why would you make an effort to state that Wiggles is the best candidate and then vote for someone else? The reason given was that Wiggles has an agenda and he would prefer voting for someone not running for mayor, which is a newb way is alright, if and only if you consolidate on a candidate. Otherwise you can vote for anyone and not be held accountable. His motivation is clear, avoid voting for Wiggles and then disappear into the night. This is scum play if Wiggles is town, which is my read. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
To the rest of the town who aren't around look at Kita's posts about the Lyncher knowing that the Lyncher does not know who their target is. With a lyncher possibly in play, its extremeley likely that he has decided to run for mayor. I suggest we elect someone who has not declared their candidacy yet. (Klicky)Big assumption which I pointed out earlier doesn't hold up. Sure Kita thought they did know their target but if that is the case surely you would want to be sure before suggesting we base the whole voting system on it. He never asks the thread of their opinions about how likely it is that a lyncher knows their target, he just assumes it and then run riot based on that assumption. Then when Toad claims his response is not "Oh Toad is probably town but we can figure that out tomorrow" it's Hmm, mason would be a great claim for a lyncher. Doesn't matter if he's telling the truth on day two since he's already won by then.As much as I'd like to see a town role elected, we can't automatically assume toad is town. Sure he goes onto to support Toad as Pardoner but is absolutely convinced that A) There is a lyncher B) They know their target and so would run for mayor to win on the first day C) That a mason claim makes Toad that lyncher Then he closes down discussion on the topic with this Lets end the discussion right now. Toad is our pardoner. It's the best of both worlds. It ensures we don't have a scum pardoner, which is the more dangerous of the two roles and it protects us from a mayor lyncher. If you're town toad, then great we denied the role. If not, then we don't really care if you would prefer mayor. (Klicky)Which assumes that Toad is a lyncher based off of his mason claim? It is totally non-sensical and does not fit with my image of Kita as a town player. After this VE and Kita get into a back and forth about Toad being town where Kita makes a lot of sense. I've stated earlier that Kita started off looking really bad and has since improved. I am trying to work out what motivation someone would have to be so obsessive about the possibility of lyncher and be so wrong about how it works. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:22 Probulous wrote: So you think Kita is third party? My running theory is that Kita is mafia who wanted to divert town and discredit Toad. When that was shot down he changed tack and tried to discredit you. The problem I have is that he raised the lyncher thing first. It's like fearmongering -> discredit Toad -> discredit VE But that means his whole motivation for the lyncher obsession was to create confusion? It's possible of course, but I'm actually with you - I'd say Kita is more likely scum than third party. The Iggins thing was a joke because he mentioned Gaz, literally my favorite character in any show ever made. "But that means his whole motivation for the lyncher obsession was to create confusion?" Possibly...but I think it's probably more sinister than that if Kita is scum. Like, kita's town play is pretty easy to distinguish...he's active, he pushes his reads and he questions people to get those reads. All he's done this game was OMGUS all over my face, which is absolutely NOT the kind of play I expect of town Kita. Not at all. Town Toad definitely. Town VE absolutely. Not Town Kita. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I find the following players scummy and have listed them in the preference of lynching order. VisceraEyes: case stated earlier sToFu: Apologetic, lacks town tells Mr. Wiggles: Band-wagoning, play has completely dropped off as promising to be a leader strongandbig: stated ealier Hassybaby: Active lurker. Refusing to contribute even after people have complained about his apathy. I find the following having contributed little to nothing in the thread. I'd like each of them to comment about the above five names or bring up something meaningful to show that they care about showing that they are town. Otherwise, they should all be considered for vig shots. Manason GambitX32 Cwave Hassybaby Kenpachi phagga Hyaach sToFu | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:25 austinmcc wrote: His motivation is clear to you because you're not fully considering poorly-thought-out play. If you're happy to vote a different candidate because everyone running might have had an agenda, then that reasoning still stands even once you need to consolidate. You're suspicious of Wiggles AND every other candidate for the same reason, so why consolidate your vote on ANY of them? If you accept that as possible reasoning, then his motivation isn't clear any more, because he could have been acting according to his suspicion of all candidates. That's the only reasoning I've got for him not swapping his vote at the end. But it is still i think 8 hours till day ends? Plenty of time to decide. He never came back and never stated that he was suspicious of Wiggles. How are his actions any different from a scum trying to avoid the responsibility of choosing a mayor? If you were truly suspicious of everyone running for mayor than you would never vote in a mayor. That position only works early in the running but came deadline you need to choose one of the candidates unless you have a good reason. He did not and he didn't bother even confirming his reasoning. He stated it once and said it was subject to change but never followed up. He just left. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:31 VisceraEyes wrote: It's possible of course, but I'm actually with you - I'd say Kita is more likely scum than third party. The Iggins thing was a joke because he mentioned Gaz, literally my favorite character in any show ever made. "But that means his whole motivation for the lyncher obsession was to create confusion?" Possibly...but I think it's probably more sinister than that if Kita is scum. Like, kita's town play is pretty easy to distinguish...he's active, he pushes his reads and he questions people to get those reads. All he's done this game was OMGUS all over my face, which is absolutely NOT the kind of play I expect of town Kita. Not at all. Town Toad definitely. Town VE absolutely. Not Town Kita. So I'm back to being scum now that someone else has jumped on board? What happened to not being able to make a case and wanting to work with me as town? You're all over the place. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
In the meantime everyone is going to do a little homework and reread my case on VE. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:35 kitaman27 wrote: Your post doesn't have a conclusion prob. I assumed lynchers know their target because it would be an imbalanced role otherwise. I've never played in a game where a player's win condition is to lynch an unknown target. That is because I haven't come up with a conclusion. I can't read you so far, so well done if you're scum. I can sort of understand your play if you truly believed that, but it seems really odd to get so focused without checking your base assumptions. It fits a scum you better than town, but since then you have been open and active. I just want other people to contribute because right now I am drawing a blank. I still think Hyaach is a good lynch. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
You're sheeping Kita, nothing more. Everything you've said is basically what Kita has said only better, but what Kita has said is balls too, so that's not saying much. You got nothing. You're going to fail to get me lynched. Instead of cooperative, helpful VE, you get Dark Archon VE with mind control and shit...I hope you're prepared. I don't think you're prepared. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Still no vote Kita? Don't wanna be too HASTY? Don't wanna vote against town-sentiment? Cause that would just be DEVASTATING wouldn't it? You know, in case you have to kill me tonight, you don't want that name EVEN CROSSED OUT under my name huh? That's cool, I understand that. If I were scum I'd probably be a little cautious too. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm aware that is a Zim quote - this is not me claiming scum, for those of you who watch the show. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Your case is terrible MZ. I've told you why - because you're jumping to conclusions about my intentions without considering town motivations for the things you're accusing me of. Meh. The only town motivation I can construct for your filter is that: 1. You're obsessed with Toad and 2. You just fucking love posting. Waiting for MZ case part 2. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 31 2012 12:08 jaj22 wrote: Meh. The only town motivation I can construct for your filter is that: 1. You're obsessed with Toad and 2. You just fucking love posting. Waiting for MZ case part 2. I DO love posting, actually...and I am a little obsessed with Toad, as he's a little obsessed with me (go check his filter if you doubt it  ). Our play mystifies one another, and neither of us can understand why anyone thinks the other is any good. It's kinda our thing. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
Anyway I made it home, judging by how long the last one took I should have part 2 done in maybe 2 hours or so. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:35 kitaman27 wrote: Your post doesn't have a conclusion prob. I assumed lynchers know their target because it would be an imbalanced role otherwise. I've never played in a game where a player's win condition is to lynch an unknown target. I find the following players scummy and have listed them in the preference of lynching order. VisceraEyes: case stated earlier sToFu: Apologetic, lacks town tells Mr. Wiggles: Band-wagoning, play has completely dropped off as promising to be a leader strongandbig: stated ealier Hassybaby: Active lurker. Refusing to contribute even after people have complained about his apathy. I find the following having contributed little to nothing in the thread. I'd like each of them to comment about the above five names or bring up something meaningful to show that they care about showing that they are town. Otherwise, they should all be considered for vig shots. Manason GambitX32 Cwave Hassybaby Kenpachi phagga Hyaach sToFu VE: spammy. 2 friendly imo sToFu: who is this guy MrWiggles: n00blord strongandbig: unimportant Hassybaby: ??? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: If you want to lynch someone, I expect you to actually come up with reasons why it's best to do so, and not just blatant sheeping. On May 31 2012 03:01 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Instead, I think we should go with lynching Gambit today. The case on him has already been made, and it's pretty solid based on the information we have. In your own words Wiggles, could you explain to me why Gambit is a better lynch than the alternatives? Also, why the drop-off in activity since your election? | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Wow this thread is dumb. I got out of my tutoring job early and am coming home now so I can sort this mess out. In the meantime everyone is going to do a little homework and reread my case on VE. Thanks for the case Meapak, I have in fact read it and I have one question. Why? You rightly point out that VE went after Toad preventing him from being elected as pardoner. I fail to see how that makes him scum. There was no lynch happening and Toad would be confirmed by the next day. Scum would know this and so it makes little sense to try and discredit Toad when you can't get him lynched. I mean all it does is allow someone else to get the pardoner role. Along that line of thought, do you think ET or Wiggles are possibly VE's scumbuddy? That VE tried to shift the spotlight away from them and onto Toad so that they could get voted in easily? They have both been very quiet since the election. Your case is thorough but it fails to explain what purpose his actions serve for mafia. In essence VE calls for the death of a guy who will be forced to prove his claim tomorrow. There’s literally no way for toad to not produce and if he doesn’t then he’s signed his own death warrant. There is no reason to kill him and yet that’s what VE wants. Why would he do this? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
First of all supersoft pointed out something very valid: VE was all for pushing zealos but not actually putting his vote where his mouth was. Five minutes after supersoft posts this, VE makes a post unvoting gambit and voting Zealos. That's scummy thing #1. Scummy thing #2 is when some random guy comes in the thread and calls Hyaach scummy. VE immediately lets go of his Zealos vote and then votes Hyaach. It's like he has no sense of consolidation and he's just going with the flavor of the moment. This is what he did in LI where I came in the thread and said "hey hassybaby is scummy" and then VE voted hassy after I voted him, and kept saying how he was willing to kill him but changed his vote later anyway. The only problem is that in recent games VE has been willing to put together a bunch of names as scum all at once and he hasn't been afraid of calling them all out regardless of how strong the actual cases are (though he himself feels strongly about them, I suppose) usually though he tunnels at least one of the players. Right now I'm not feeling like VE has any sort of real conviction, and at the very least town VE has balls. | ||
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