EPTFirst TL Mafia game after lurking! :D
Newbie Mini Mafia XIII
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ShiaoPi
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First TL Mafia game after lurking! :D | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On May 10 2012 08:56 Hyaach wrote: this is exactly why i always hated day starts. just posting to let people know i'm here and ready to jump the big gun! This post strikes me as a somewhat suspicious one. The previous posts dealt with lynching lurkers and as a response you make a post, stating that you are not lurking, but nothing else. This seems weird to me as nobody pressured precisely you. They were just stating a general idea to get by and you just ignored the issue of lynching lurkers in your post. Maybe you just lacked time, it is just day1 anyway, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on you. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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also the bolded part of your quote: On May 10 2012 23:26 Anacletus wrote: I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no? But if he's town, shit. seems to me like either a really bad conclusion as a townie or as a scum seeking a way to gain town credibility by jumping on the next best bandwagon... Care to elaborate on your decision? Otherwise you'll have my vote as of now your play is ridiculously fishy and scummy. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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ShiaoPi
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I think it already made clear my suspicions but just for the record I'll do it again: The below excerpts are all from Anacletus' filter: Before gamestart we have these posts: + Show Spoiler + Can't wait  Oh man, did this just became even more pertinent  ?Taking these I would assume that he is somebody who is eager to play this game. But as soon as the game starts there are no posts of him. Kind of odd if he was really that psyched to begin playing. Between day1-post and Anacletus first post are about 15 hours of time in which he did nothing. Even if we take different timezones and other committments (such as school/job/college) this seems to me as a long period of time in which a eager player did absolutely nothing. Continuing the analysis with his first post: ##Vote FirmTofu It is basically a naked vote-post without any reasoning behind it. Now adding his second post to it: + Show Spoiler + I am only voting because I don't have much to add. I would also like to point out that *if* we hang tofu for his suspicious behavior and he is mafia then we can rule out those voting as being mafia, no? But if he's town, shit. His reasoning is basically that he likes to jump onto the first slowly emerging bandwagon in the thread. Although there are "only" 2 votes on FirmTofu at the moment, it could easily turn into a quick and easy lynch-target if more people changed their minds about him (My thoughts on tofu are in my previous post) The second part of his post is a conclusion that all people who vote for FirmTofu are Town if FirmTofu flips Mafia. This conclusion is utter nonsense (at least in my opinion). There is nothing that prevents Mafia from voting each other if they believe it to be necessary. Furthermore the logic is flawed as going with it, everybody who votes in a mislynch on a townie must be mafia according to Anacletus. The point is simply that nobody is a confirmed townie until he flips. Anacletus' next post is a weird contradiction of his own logic. He states that he believes the following: + Show Spoiler + I doubt that the mafia would try to be hyper-aggressive day 1. I think that the people who aren't voting are suspicious. I think it makes more sense for the mafia to try and be passive in voting yet vocal in chat to try and rule who otherw vote for and keep their hands clean. In his opinion the following things are characteristic of scum: vocal, not voting and directing the discussion in a way they see fit. Now compare these to the filter of FirmTofu, which consists of exactly one post. He is neither vocal nor directing, the only fitting one is "not-voting". But considering it was one of the very first posts after the gamestart that is not all too surprising. His until now last post were a few sentences about metagaming, which are in no relation to the mounting pressure we have put on him. So he is actively avoiding to answer us, glaringly obvious by the fact that he has not tried to defend himself. This is really fishy. If he is a townie, he should defend himself, explain his thoughprocess and state his reasons why he believes FirmTofu to be a good Day1-Lynch instead of disappearing into lurker-state again as the pressure adds up. Concluding from these points I believe it to be really clear that Anacletus is contradicting himself as his actions are not following his words. This strikes me as a really scummy behaviour, especially if we also consider his sudden inactiveness after gamestart and after the accusations and suspicions on him started to add up. To me Anacletus is scum, who tried to push the developing pressure on FirmTofu into an unstoppable bandwagon for an easy mislynch on day1. Now that I have firmly established my point of view: ##Vote: Anacletus Anacletus seems to be clearly scum, which is helping us a lot. If we look at the setup of 13 players I would take the guess that we probably have 3 mafia (considering that the last newbie mafia game had 9 players with a 7/2-split). So who might be the other members? I had suspected Hyaach first and he remains hard to read. His later posts are better than his first as they are actually related to the current discussion. His vote on Anacletus seems reasonable as well given my argumentation above. Although it seems obvious why he is pressuring Anacletus a little bit of explanation of your reasoning would in my eyes go a long way to gain more credibility as a townie. His posts still lack analysis, length and depth, which makes him still kind of fishy. After my initial suspects Anacletus and Hyaach let's just go through the players as they are listed in the OP. BroodkingEXE: -Replied on a middleground on the matter of lynching lurkers, which is fine with me -First one to pressure FirmTofu -Unvoted Tofu as soon as he read the defense -Suspicious of Anacletus He seems to be pro-town as his play seems solid. Utilizing pressure to gain more information, but no one is confirmed town until he flips. So yeah, I am inclined to place him as townie but in Mafia you can never be certain. Mufaa: -Not a single post..... Guess he is either a hardcore-lurker, which makes him a scum-candidate, or just lost interest and will be modkilled at night/end of day1. Nothing more to say I guess. austinmcc: -Defends Tofu a bit -Pressures Anacletus He seems to be reasonable to me. Although he does not have too many posts, they seem well thought out and transparent. I would tend to read him as a townie, but as I said before nobody is confirmed townie until they flip. Jailbreaker: -2 Posts which do not have a lot of content -Got defensive after dahdum pressured him a bit -waiting for everyone to post before voting Hard to tell to be honest, but I would count him as a possible scum. Low amount of posting with close to 0 information/usefullness in them. Got defensive as soon as somebody pressured him a bit and the withholding of his vote before "everybody" had a chance to post seems fishy to me. Keep your eyes on him. Dahdum: -Makes the first post of the game -Pressures Tofu, then Jailbreaker before voting on FirmTofu Generally aggressive pressure style with his posts, compared to his playstyle in Newbie Mafia XII, it seems like a complete switch. Not sure what to make out of him yet. Darkfirex5: -slight pressure in his first and only post on BioSC No clue, I need more posts to make something out of him. But inactiveness after putting out a suspicion does not help in making him a townie. Crossfire99: -2 posts and first one quite a bit after the start of the game -Defends Tofu -Pressures Anacletus Solid posts from him thus far. The number of posts are a bit disappointing but that could be due to time restraints. I am inclined to put him on the townie side, but remember, no one is confirmed townie until he flips. FirmTofu: -2 posts, first is some small talk with almost no content -2nd post seems like a good defense against the accusations and some well-written pressure on Anacletus Seems to be a townie, but a rather inactive one. And because I am sick of reiterating myself again and again, NOICTUHF (No one is confirmed townie until he flips) unforgiven_ve: -2 posts until now, which do not tell us a lot. -Slightly suspicious of Anacletus Cannnot say much about him, as his posts were short and not very informative. BisoSC: -Suspcious of FirmTofu (not sure if he was serious about it) -defends the view that people should be allowed to post before we lynch inactive/lurker Nothing more to say, strikes me as a townie for now, but NOICTUHF. So in closing remarks of this rather long post, what are my suspicions? Scumteam: Anacletus, Mufaa, ???? (Could be any of us, but I am inclined to believe him out of the group of: Jailbreaker, Dahdum, hyaach, darkfirex5) If Mufaa gets modkilled I will have to get two people out of aforementioned group obviously. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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now correctly formatted | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon. Where was I defending hyaach? I merely gave him the benefit of doubt. If you read carefully I said he remains fishy and I put him onto the list of suspected scum. If that is defending to you I can't help you. considering that we only have day1, there is not a lot you can read into. I just did my best and thought it might be a good idea to share my list with you for more input/discussion. And I do give sure reads. I am pretty sure Anacletus is scum, reread that paragraph again if you do not see it. I also point out some suspicious things with several players. Again considering the number of posts we have to do reads and the information we have until now, I do think that my list is not that bad. You are invited to proof me wrong. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On May 11 2012 04:43 Anacletus wrote: Well, shit, I guess opting to lynch someone because several others were voting for them was silly. I'm not mafia TT Is that your defense? Seriously? BroodkingEXE if you believe me scum and starting a scumwagon, I would like to know the reasons how you came to that assumption. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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I presented you the reasons why I am suspicious of your behaviour, what about trying to explain your thought-process? And for what kind of "evidence" are you waiting? I do not really understand the logic behind waiting for something to happen before defending yourself. The only thing which will give us any kind of evidence is a lynch, since that is still a bit away, I don't get your logic here. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: ---snipped--- Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. I do get what you mean by "misleading due to size", there are indeed many uncertainties inside, which you could consider as "null reads". Given the fact that we have day 1 and the low amount of posts we have from some people, not being able to give out a 100% read strikes me as being absolutely normal. Reiteration is also featured because I tried to be transparent in my thoughtprocess, you may say that these things devalue the usefullness of the post, but I believe they were needed. Do I have to repeat it again? My suspicions on hyaach are not dropped. Reread it again, I clearly state that he is still on my watchlist and also point out his lack of evidence/reason for the vote. Here it is:+ Show Spoiler + His later posts are better than his first as they are actually related to the current discussion. His vote on Anacletus seems reasonable as well given my argumentation above. Although it seems obvious why he is pressuring Anacletus a little bit of explanation of your reasoning would in my eyes go a long way to gain more credibility as a townie. His posts still lack analysis, length and depth, which makes him still kind of fishy. Now in rereading it myself I probably could have worded it a bit better. -His posts are now related to the discussion, which is sth. beneficial to us. -I did not say I vote with him, as in "he has convinced me", I state that I believe his vote to be understandable, since I am suspecting Anacletus myself for the reasons I posted. The next sentence is poorly phrased, I admit it. I should not have said that he could "gain more credibility as a townie" but instead said that it could move him away from the scumcamp, since he still appears fishy to me due to lacking analysis, length, depth. I did not want to make him into a "townie". My reasons to vote on Anacletus, could be worded in the way you did, but they can also be put as I did: mismatch in behaviour, posting a vote without reasons and contradiction of himself. Anacletus' last post is finally one which makes sense, after the ones before. Finally some explanation going on, I still believe that something is fishy about Anacletus and I am not the only one, you do so as well + Show Spoiler + This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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Hyaach's play remains fishy in my opinion, posts are more useful now, but his instantvote with reasoning following later is still scummy. A connection between him and Anacletus deems unlikely with the vote, but hyaach's play is really confusing. Jailbreaker actually promised to deliver something: posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8) but still no post yet. Laziness/slow at best but scummy and suspicious at the worst. Darkfirex5 campaigns caution and nothing overhasty in regards to the developing votes. Withholds his vote for this reason: Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Which is contradictory on his own suspicions on Tofu, Bio and dahdum as they lack evidence as well (every case on day1 lacks solid 100% evidence anyway). Keeps up a slight defense of Anacletus, while voting for him (in the wrong format though). Weird behaviour as Anacletus' play has not improved and remains scummy. Keeping an eye on him. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On the accusations on BroodKingEXE: You bring up some good analysis. I guess I overlooked those aspects of his posts because I was more busy defending my posts against him than analyzing. I'll have to reread his filter thoroughly though, before doing anything. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On May 12 2012 02:39 austinmcc wrote: It's a finger of suspicion. I'm suspicious of him. I've given my reasons that I think he's town and my reasons that I think he's scum. Don't try and discredit me. Try and discredit that case on you. Or maybe you're hoping it sits there and gets buried before the end of D1 so that you don't get lynched. I am actually pretty interested in what you have to say as well BroodkingEXE. Mind enlightening us? austinmcc seems to have made quite a good case against you, which I am inclined to give credibility. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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##unvote I would assume that most people have read austinmcc's case now. Mind sharing your opinions? Thus far we got austinmcc's, hyaach's and my thoughts on them. Come on guys, post! | ||
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ShiaoPi
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As crappy as it was Anacletus did try to defend himself. He still is one of the bigger scumreads right now and as austinmcc argued correctly he has absolutely zero credibility right now. So as scum, who might attempt to sway town's discussion he is worthless at the moment until he steps it up and starts to give us reasons to believe him again. BroodkingExe on the other hand just disappeared, ignoring the case completely and if you examine the last two posts of his you will see the recurring things austinmcc mentioned in his case. He again shifts a bit of focus on other people who have not really been called out until now, but does not start his own case (see this:+ Show Spoiler + Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy. Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me. BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum. His other post calls out austinmcc as scummy for repeating his beliefs on Anacletus (that he is a bad townie but not necessarily mafia). BroodkingEXE's post were done after austinmcc's case against him and yet he managed to ignore it completely. So either 1) He did not see/read austinmcc's post (highly unlikely) 2) He did read it and chose to ignore it as he seems safe enough with the current votecount So the only way to get him into talking seems to be to unvote one by one and making him think of his own position of less than secure. I just want to hear more from him, if we do not get him to talk and Anacletus is lynched, at least we will know Anacletus' role and from there on we have more room to expand our discussion. Either way they are both top priorities for pressure/questioning regardless of whom we lynch today. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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Seems like the majority of people caught up on the conversation while I was gone. Including BroodKingEXE, whose defense remains to be this post here: + Show Spoiler + The reason I have not addressed it is because it doesn't make me look scummy. I voted for Firm Tofu, because he implied that we should wait for everyone to get a post up before discussing. At least this is how I read into it. By lynching lurkers early, I mean we shouldn't lynch for being lurkers early. I'm not for lynching lurkers early because at least one person is going to point out a scum, and that scum will have to defend himself or other Mafia. If we can find that guy we can draw out the rest of the scum. Also, lynching scum lurkers don't provide any information as to the other scum members. Too many times I have seen lurker bandwagons based only on their lurker. I have been drawing information according to you, and that is my plan to call out others and form opinions on them so we can lynch scum. Our main questions and suspicions on you were not regarding your first vote on Tofu, which to me still seems like a reasonable way to gain some information on day 1, but we were much more concerned with the general picture that you seem to be calling out a few people, but not really making a case against them. Your response was that you have been "drawing information", which is a perfectly fine method to play. But now the spotlight is on you. When it was on Anacletus and he responded in a similar manner, you simply asked: + Show Spoiler + @Anacletus, What have you been doing? Has the pressure vote brought any information? Scum hunting means analyzing responses to stuff like this, I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt if you provide useful information. That is exactly what I am asking you now. What have you been doing all the time? You have obviously read the case against you, you had almost 48 hours to make up your mind on several suspects and things in a orderly manner. So what are your findings? What are the information you have gathered until now? If you cannot post something which convinces me of your opinion, you will have my vote. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On May 12 2012 06:13 BroodKingEXE wrote: ---snipped--- Am I not entitled to my own opinion? The things you have posted in your original case don't make me look that scummy. The thing that Tofu said and I said are different. He wants to lynch lurkers and I don't (at least not till a couple more days). I have called out others, do you see all those "useless one-liners"? They are calling out things I saw as potentially scummy. Do I have to wait and post a culmination of these posts all at once? For the most part you haven't actually looked at the majority of my posts for their content. Your final sentence doesn't make sense in terms of scum. Why would I not defend myself (as scum), when the town was obviously against me? Look at where waiting has got me, second-highest lynch canidate for day 1. It could just be I didn't see your post like I didn't see this response. As I said already the Tofuvote was fine by me and you are indeed not someone, who seems to be a obvious scum candidate but the general "feeling" your posts give out is that you contribute maybe too little for the activity you are showing. All your posts and suspicions so far have been pretty much sheeping the opinions of others, instead of pointing out maybe additional oddities you have found (except for your slight pressure on austinmcc as in here: + Show Spoiler + You can't keep a FoS on someone and be on the fence about them being scum. You obviously think he is town, but are setting yourself up so that it looks like you had suspicions on him. Hedging would allow you to say "I didn't think he was scum" if he flipped town. This strikes me as scummy. That is in fact the first notice you take on someone or somebody's action which has not been pointed out by others beforehand. Your posts in general give me the feeling that you try too hard to be unnoticeable. Generally there are only two kind of players who want to be unnoticeable to the town, without being suspicious, which are blue roles or scum. Blue roles want to be unnoticeable in fear of the night-hit but they also need to have some town credibility if they are forced to roleclaim at some point. Scum wants to unnoticed, because, well we are searching for them. So a lynch on BroodkingEXE could strike out in both ways for us. We could be totally screwing us over by lynching a blue role or we get some scum on day 1. Quite a risk I guess. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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I guess I just wanted to say that considering the uncertainties we have on day 1 it might actually be better to let a lynch-candidate, on whom we still have open questions, live into day 2. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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Regarding BroodkingEXE, I guess I already said that he is either scum or blue. The case pushed by Mufaa is Jailbreaker, who is for sure another player high on the scum list, but there is also too little to make of him and I do not believe it warrants a lynch. Other suspects have posted little so really making a solid case against them is hard, especially within ~1 hour. So in the end I guess we are still left with the question to lynch either Anacletus or BroodkingExe. I should probably stop rambling now and wait for your thoughts on it. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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##vote BroodKingEXE Unless something drastic happens, my vote stays. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On May 12 2012 07:29 Anacletus wrote: Also - I'd like to just point out that many people recently have just switched votes, aka Unforgiven, ShiaoPi and Firm. Maybe it's a coincidence? Maybe not. I'm just really concerned with the way that those guys are swing-voting and bandwagoning so hard. If you believe me to be bandwagoning go reread my filter, I actually give a lot of reasons why I waited this long to vote and I was among the first to support austinmcc's case. If that is bandwagoning to you, I would tend even stronger to the idea that you are just a "bad" townie. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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ShiaoPi
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+ Show Spoiler + Vote Count: BroodkingEXE(8): austinmcc, Anacletus, dahdum, BioSC, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, unforgiven_ve, Mufaa The people who switched were: Anacletus, dahdum, BioSC, FirmTofu, ShiaoPi, unforgiven_ve and Mufaa. Basically everyone except austinmcc who started the case. I personally do not blame him for starting the wagon since I agreed on a lot of his views and I also said that the play of BKE was either blue or scum. Looking at Anacletus next: -his last posts seemed quite townie to me and his vote is reasoned from his side as "better they lynch you than they lynch me", which is okay to me. Yes Anacletus played horribly halfway through the day, but it actually got better, so for now I would put him as "bad" townie. dahdum's vote is here: + Show Spoiler + Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count? ##unvote ##Vote BroodKingEXE Might not be enough to swing it, but I feel more comfortable lynchying BKE than Anac at this point. Looking through his filter, it consists mostly of attacks on BioSC, pretty much the only thing about BKE is the following from his list: + Show Spoiler + BKE - Not providing reads, only a semi-baseless vote which helped get the game going. Talks about scum will do and urges caution. Scummy. I am unsure what to make of it right now. He seemed to have suspected BKE for a while which could explain his vote on him after austin made his case. Especially since nobody seemed to be inclined to follow up his pressure on BioSC. The only slightly suspicious thing I can make out is in his post just before his vote he says the following: I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned). First he says that he backs off from anacletus, although he only jumped on that bandwagon without much explanation and did not follow it up with pressure besides his vote. It would have made more sense to say "I am backing off from BioSC for now" as he was focused on him. But it can also be argued that it was just a wording issue as his vote was indeed still on anacletus. His reasoning on switching onto BKE is basically sheeping austinmcc's arguments without adding anything else to it. He also does not post again before the lynch. If we take his comment on BKE from his list into consideration it seems a lot less scummy than it might otherwise, so for now just slightly fishy play due to lack of discussion and trying really hard to start a case on BioSC without actually starting one. Up next we have BioSC: His defense against the (half-)case of dahdum seems reasonable to me, posts well-thought out posts and gives his opinions on the main topics of discussion. He is among the first to react to austinmcc's case but is reluctant to change his vote at first. As soon as he does he seems to have gone offline or into lurkermode. I would consider his vote in the same category as my own, we were simply confident in a read on scum and acted accordingly. FirmTofu: FirmTofu has quite the lack of activity but when he did defend himself and start a little case against darkfirex5 his posting seemed well-structured and reasonable. His vote however does not tell us much: + Show Spoiler + I think Broodking's responses to the pressure are much more telling than the actual initial pressure itself. austinmcc is completely right that Broodking is the scummiest person alive now. ##vote BroodKingEXE It seems like a "let's just join the bandwagon"-vote. But we need more posts to read more into him. As it stands now I would remain suspicious of him, especially as his posts before switching his vote had 0 content regarding BKE. My own decision to switch should be pretty transparent if you reread my filter, so I will not repeat myself here. unforgiven_ve has been terribly inactive for most of day 1 even voting for himself just to make sure that he voted in case he cannot check the thread out before the deadline. He rejoined the discussion as he could spare the time to do so and goes on to clearly state his reasons for switching to BKE after his initial vote on Anacletus (which pretty much all of us did anyway). Does not look like a bandwagonjumper to me. Mufaa has also been really inactive for most of the time. When he did post however, there was clearly effort and thought behind it. Sadly his amount of posts is still really low. He was there at the end of the Anacletus discussion and just in time for the deadline. He pushed a little against Jailbreaker just before switching but his reasoning seems solid and transparent. Also does not look like a bandwagoner. Conclusively on the voters of BKE the only outstanding ones are dahdum and FirmTofu. I would really like to hear more from you. Especially about your voting decision or generally more activity. Besides those participating in the mislynch we have other suspects as well. Jailbreaker has been called out more than often enough so I guess I do not have to add anything against him. I want to focus a bit on darkfirex5: If you read through his filter, you immediately see that there is simply a lot of weak halfcases he starts against several people, these include: Anacletus (where his vote ends up), BioSC, FirmTofu and dahdum. His posts are few and mostly within the context of the Anacletus discussion, in which he seemingly takes a diverting role with his suspicions. In regards to BKE he writes the following: + Show Spoiler + I'd suggest filtering BKEXE's posts. From what I'm reading of what he has posted, there isnt anying that makes me want to switch the bandwagon onto him (fairly) last minute. There isnt enough posts from him to make the acusation he is more mafia than that of Anacletus. I dislike this massive wagon switch because instead of going with the safest mafia guess, we switch it last minute to someone i think we need more posts from to prove he is mafia. I bolded the part which seemed weird to me. I could agree with his reasoning on not wanting to switch before, but BKE was actually one of the more active players so it seems like a sentence without anything backing it up. Generally speaking he is acting scummy as in non-comittal to his reads/suspicions and inactivity. Keep your eyes on him. Hyaach's play has steadily improved during the game as in contributing to the discussion and such. He also questions BKE, seemed to be inclined to maybe switch his vote, but he just stopped posting as soon as BKE responded. Kind of weird if you ask me, add to it the confusion he has done in the first haf of day 1 and remains a hard to read player, so fishy play right here. So who am I keeping on my watchlist for now? jailbreaker, Dahdum, hyaach, FirmTofu, darkfirex5 are currently my top suspicions. jailbreaker for his ridiculous inactivity, dahdum and Firm for bandwagoning, darkfirex5 for confusing, non-comittal, inactive play and hyaach for confusing play which might be another "bad" townie who slipped at the beginning. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
@Crossfire99: You really got some good points on Mufaa, but besides his inactivity and the math behind his vote there are not that much questionable actions/information on him. Mufaa mind sharing you thoughts on your vote? From the people I have called out there were responses by dahdum: + Show Spoiler + I stand by my vote on BKE, I've been at work so couldn't really go in depth on Anaclectus - but I still get that newbie town vibe. Bringing up BioSC was just reiterating the top of my list, it's also enjoyable how defensive he gets when mentioned. I'll make a full case when I'm ready. I'm not sold on anyone being confirmed, and we haven't gotten to true analysis stage. The odd thing is that you have tunnelled him all game long, but still feel that you are not ready to make a case against him. Why focus so much on him then? Maybe just to divert attention from Anacletus, while you still play it safe with voting for him? There is simply an inconsistency between time you spent on BioSC and real committment onto his case. Darkfirex5 also posted the following: + Show Spoiler + I guess no one listened to me about the switch of the bandwagon with no solid evidence compared to the "safer" bet with Anacletus, I'll be going over the people who switch vote, i gtg for now but i believe i saw a mafia group bandwagoning to get it started. <-- ill be looking into that Which means he is totally ignoring my post about him. Just a general statement of regret and a somehow flawed logic of a "safer bet". I believe we have quite established that Anacletus can easily be lynched later if the need arises. Anyone else up for pressuring him as well? Hyaach just believes me to be suspicious, I can assure you Hyaach that feeling is mutual. We probably should discuss BKE's thought as well. His last suspects were dahdum, mufaa and unforgiven. I suspect dahdum as well and have Mufaa on my radar now. I had at first not suspected unforgiven, but his posts during night make me slightly suspicious of him. First of this one: + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 10:13 Unforgiven_ve wrote: I keep reading and reading and dont see anywhere how to get that information about "3 mafias" why are you so sure? Maybe it could be 4? 2 is too few and 5 too much, you wrote that whit so much security(sp?) and you started the wagon against BKW... tell me, why are you so sure about being 3 mafias? He grabs a tidbit of austinmcc about the mafiacount as an attempt maybe to discredit the case and the austin with it. I feel that this "evidence" is sorely lacking as it seems like quite the logical conclusion to say that there are 3 mafia. It could be the beginning of setting up austinmcc for lynch at day based on the mislynch of BKE. His other post is this one: On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? I responded to his thought process at the beginning of this post so let's see what his motivation for it might have been: 1) Genuinly concerned about the possibility of the good reading players being sniped at night. 2) Attempt to quelch night discussion to stop town from gathering information. If we assume 1), follow the logic of the beginning of my post. We need information and night discussion also helps blue roles to maybe balance out the night actions of scum. There is no reason to stop discusssing! 2) actually makes sense if we consider unforgiven scum. Going through his filter again I saw some inconsistencies. First of all he has a low postcount. His suspectlist seems to be: Anacletus, Mufaa, jailbreaker, Crossfire99 and me. He does no further action against any of these. Concerning his actions around the BKE lynch his votepost is actually not too shabby: + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 07:12 Unforgiven_ve wrote: I think anacletus did us not good playing the way he has, i want to belive its a mafia "strategy" but its just too risky(¿?), after reading austinmcc and seeing Anacletus doesnt represent a thread anymore (im sure this will strike us some other way in the future), if BKE flips blue/town as Shaopi says, we are at 0 again thanks to Anacletus. I repeat, i dont like to be guided this easily, but i see a case, i see reasons, and i see lack of response from the accused party. I have made up my mind after readin all posts and seeing RKE lacks of defense after the high pressure...also, this is golden Mufaa, it just raised my "interest" on you. + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made. .... and i agree 100% on your jailbraker FOS as i stated hours before, pointing a friend maybe?... but i think we should wait a little more. ##Vote BroodKingEXE But between his last post, which was still in the Anacletus discussion and his first post about BKE are around 6 hours of time. It could naturally be due to timeconstraints so let's take a closer look on his votepost. There are a lot of general statements and sheeping of reasons. He goes on to stress his disdain for bandwagoning and throws in a suspicion of Mufaa without a good reason (at least to me. We all agree that Anacletus' play was terrible and Mufaa's statement is pretty common sense.). Of course these things are not enough for a case against unforgiven yet, but for now: ##FOS unforgiven_ve That does not mean that I am not following the others on my shortlist, but I believe we might have to look at him a lot more closely than before. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On May 13 2012 01:37 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Fair enough. First of all, my post about not posting any real deep analysis at night is genuine, i dont want a mafia to kill a good "investigator", as i said at beggining, english is not my native language, so trying to make BIG post sometimes its a bit difficult. You can see im not the only one suspecting of Mufaa, im just not buying that kind of "clean play", no time to play, a couple of long depth analysis post, go back to lurk and come whit another "great" analysis. The thing about austin was, i didnt saw anywhere where you can get the scum quantity, seeing the description of the game you can see we can get from 2 to 4 (Roles), i just pointed that out, and asked him why, it seemed weird to me he just said there were 3 mafias so casually. 3rd. If you see my filter, you can find that i really think Anacletus was a REALLY BAD town player, of course i had my suspicions on him, but that wasnt enough, whit austin post, things seemed to make a little more sense, and as you said, when i came to post i see this new case and had to make a "pretty fast" choice, seeing as my evidence/suspicions on other players are still not enough. Now, is this post just to prove me and divert my first suspicions on you? Why you stoped talking and using your BIG list? Now that you have more information i would like to see a Refresh in you list please. I can understand why you may want to caution against nightposting but as I stated already I believe nightdiscussion to be usefull to us either way since not only scum does action but also blues and if you get hit at night and you still had good thoughts they are lost to town. So better post them now. Regarding Mufaa, I have him on my radar as well, but my interest on your suspicion of him is, why did you bring him up? Especially since the quote you base that suspicion on seems pretty standard and is pretty much austinmcc's reasoning from before in different wording. Furthermore your votepost begins debating about the decision to vote either Anacletus or BKE, but suddenly you just feel like throwing another candidate out based on a single tidbit? That is the thing which makes me dubious of you. On to the numbers of scum, I also assumed 3 scum since the beginning of the game and mentioned it on my list, so it is weird that you suddenly call austin out on this issue if you left me out. (although you do suspect me anyway) As I said in my first "longer" nightpost I was not suspicious of you for your voting process, I did not even mention it in my suspicion-post against you, so why do you bring it up again? This seems really confusing to me. I probably would have responded to your suspicions if you actually made a solid case based on them. As it stands now you believe me scummy for posting a long analysis, which was intended to start discussion, which it did. I posted that entire list to give everyone my opinions until then and content to discuss. I stopped posting for a simple reason, I went to bed. I know it says "Taiwan" next to me but I am living in Germany and therefore my timezone is CEST, feel free to compare the timestamps of my last post on that day with the next one. If it is still suspicious to you I cannot help you. On the question why I stopped using the list. First reason is that it fulfilled its purpose more discussion material on day 1. Next reason is that I had made myself clear that I was intending to pressure Anacletus first, which I did, until austinmcc made his case, convincing me to apply pressure on BKE. So there was no reason to use it again. I have a list in my head and do my posts with it in mind. You want to see a refreshed and updated list? Fine, give me some time to look through each and every filter again and I can deliver it to you. I fail to see how it makes me look suspicious but whatever. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Could the OP post the QT of Mafia? I would be really interested in it | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
I also got the same question as all of us, any particular advice on my play? | ||
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