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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If scum know barely even half of the votes that are being cast they can reliably ensure that they end up in the minority. This is particularly true if Palmar is scum, and we would never be able to find that out easily if he consistently ends up in the minority because he is being fed information about who is voting what. I'll be back a bit later, going to reread again. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
If palmar was part of a team, by the time we figure it out, it would be too late. Even more so since apparently he's asking people to claim to him. how is that a "non-townie" mindset? I basically said if palmar was mafia, it would be very bad for us and would take a long time to figure out which is true in any situation where mafia has gotten into a position of power. How many times have you seen a mafia mayor get lynched day two? Barely any as far as I can tell. Do you agree that if palmar is mafia, it would be a bad idea for this plan to go through? Even if you think that is a possible mafia strategy, do you think it is a likely one? It makes perfect sense from a town point of view and is exactly what you would expect from town palmar. You have to admit that that is WIFOM, saying that this is expected from town palmar. I personally feel it's a likely mafia strategy in this game, especially since I thought it up before the game started. And I pointed to specifics a lot? How have I not posted in specifics? Sorry, I'm not understanding what you mean by that. I already said clearly why I don't like palmar's plan and what we should do instead... | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I'm not entirely sure what to think of anything yet, I like the 72 hour day proposal 'cause this is going fast. @wherebugsgo What do you mean "the groups with the power to influence who get into the minority are scum, not town." ? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If there is no coherent plan then there is no possible abuse of the system and the assignments are less likely to have been influenced. Think about it; if one scum team finds out that everyone is being assigned to vote a certain way, all of them can vote the other way (or ensure that they are assigned to vote that way). If there was a townie in charge of assigning spots scum could buddy to that townie to improve their chances of appearing in the minority. | ||
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
On April 30 2012 16:06 gonzaw wrote: If someone PMs an answer, can they change it afterwards? On April 30 2012 12:14 Protactinium wrote: All votes are final and cannot be changed once submitted. On May 01 2012 03:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: In the final vote counts, do we see who voted who, or just the final tallies? Vote counts will be posted as in the OP examples. You will know what people voted. Poll: Extend Round B by 24 hours for all days (Making each day 72 hours) Yes No Please respond to this poll by PM to Protactinium with the PM Subject "72 Hours Poll" | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Since it looks like people don't like round A plans then how about round B plans? I think it was Meapak_Ziphh who said "X votes X+1" and then the minority votes for the townier people. Bad thing is that we don't get majority to vote on anything so no information, and if we just flip coins for round A then people never get to put their money where their mouth is. I'm still for the Palmogisfield-plan (wazzup) where those three just decide whatever and put 6-7 townies in the minority. If we're dissatisfied with their picks then we can just replace some of them tomorrow. Just because we ditched the claim idea doesn't mean we have to ditch everything that any of those said. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
Skimming, I don't like any of the plans really. Palmar's plan reminds me of the SS gamebreak plan, but though this game has a non-standard setup, I don't see the advantage of mass roleclaim/putting all power into the center as compared to that game. To people saying "either you think Palmar is town and you go with plan, or you think he's scum"; that sort of dichotomy doesn't make any sense at this stage in the game. Palmar has the cajones to do this whether scum or town, so I don't want to follow his plan not because I absolutely think he's scum, but simply because I do not trust him enough. I'll have more time later to discuss how Phase B/future Phase A's should go. For now, since voting information is hidden, it's likely that at least some scummy people will end up in the Majority, and we can go from there. | ||
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
On May 01 2012 01:05 Palmar wrote: oh that's you meapak, I was wondering who was furiously trying to break the world record in dumb. Hi Palmar <3 On May 01 2012 05:05 wherebugsgo wrote: Scum can gather information about the round A votes and then vote accordingly in order to ensure they get into the minority, but only if townies try to subscribe to some sort of plan that tries to influence the minority. If there is no coherent plan then there is no possible abuse of the system and the assignments are less likely to have been influenced. Think about it; if one scum team finds out that everyone is being assigned to vote a certain way, all of them can vote the other way (or ensure that they are assigned to vote that way). If there was a townie in charge of assigning spots scum could buddy to that townie to improve their chances of appearing in the minority. You know who's not breaking the record in dumb? ^That guy. Letting Palmar just decide who is in the minority and who is in the majority is however breaking the record for dumb. Ignoring the biggest problem of all which is that Palmar may be scum, let's focus on a few other things. For starters, the more the mafia know about who voted what in round A the easier they can game the system. I've PM'd with a few of you and I think I told most of whom I PM'd not to reveal their round A votes. Simply put, it's too easy for scum to get away. Imagine if everyone obeys Palmar except for one of the scum teams. Then guess what, we have all three scum tagged... great how do we kill them? Do we rely on vigis? We'd have to because there'd be no other way to force them into the majority. Any town plan that requires people to vote in a public manner is a town plan that can get manipulated by scum. Just ask yourselves, do we actually have a way to force someone into the majority? No! Because any attempt to influence the majority creates a conundrum where your chosen victim is privy to your method of killing them. Quite frankly I'm shocked no one has pointed this out yet. WE CAN'T FORCE SOMEONE INTO THE MAJORITY! Can't really say that enough. Now what if things were random? Well now guess what, scum has to make their own decisions about which way to vote. Then it becomes a random chance whether they fall into the majority or not. That may sound bad, but I'd rather take a random chance than no chance at all which is what we'd have if we went with the Palmar plan. Palmar is under the impression that he can magically control the majority, but what he forgets is that the second you tell people how to vote is the second you let the scum screw up your plans. Palmar I may be trying to break the record for dumb but it looks like you've already beaten me to it. | ||
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
I really don't like plans that rely on blues as their sole method of working out. | ||
Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
I'm pardoning Syllogism and Foolishness. They're allowed to say "No" to answer today's question. Syllogism for basically oozing green, and Foolishness for reaching the same conclusion as me about chaoser. I don't think I actually ever said in the thread I wanted to lynch Chaoser, but I did PM that to a few people (Syllo, VE, Radfield, Sandroba if I remember correctly, maybe prplhz, not sure). So Foolish is not just sheeping a read, he came up with that shit himself. That's pretty towny. As for my other reads, sandroba is agreeing with the plan and following me and syllo, but he'd do that irrelevant of his alignment, as he's smart enough to realize why we're doing what we're doing. His late entry, and him disagreeing with me (confirmed in pms) about chaoser being scum is weird. BC is being completely fucking useless and stubborn, but he always does that day 1, the fact he's making bad arguments as to why we shouldn't be doing what I'm suggesting is not actually a scumtell. Chaoser is scum. VE is scum, for future reference. Ace is derp dunnoh about prplhz, he's supporting the right people, should probably just pardon him Radfield I need to hear more from. I have good feelings about him atm though and his PMs seem pretty townie. I guess I should Pardon him too. Bugs has said absolutely nothing relevant. Syllo think sheth might be scum. Sheth, you can prove your loyalty to the King by roleclaiming to me. gonzaw seems towny enough Wiggles could be town Meapak could be scum I can't remember anything Cephiro said, so it's probably not relevant. Katinaa is useless as usual. Echelon is supporting the wrong people, no idea if bad or scum. I think that's all, if I forgot you it's becuase you haven't said anything of value, so fix that. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Palmar, Syllo, Foolishness, Radfield and gonzaw (over prplhz) | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:41 Liquid`Sheth wrote: We can force someone into the minority by tricking them. Say for instance we all agreed to Palmar's plan. And we all just type that we agree to it in this forums and he PM's us all private to change to NO. We then screw over that one guy. So while we can't if this person is smart, there are ways we can trick him! =) On May 01 2012 05:42 syllogism wrote: I presume we would then, having identified 3 mafia, not follow the plan on the following day and then lynch them one by one. We should, however, move on to more important matters as it is clear people aren't willing to follow the strategy today at least. First to Sheth, that introduces sooo much wifom it's not even funny, furthermore what if someone thinks the person you want to trick is town and PMs them the correct answer. That's really not the way to do it, it introduces so much chance for error. Similarly syllo do you still not understand? The only way to lynch someone is to force them into the majority, if you try and artificially create a majority you automatically make it so the mafia can manipulate it. I fail to see what's so hard about that to understand but I'm glad you're willing to move on. I feel our time would be best spent right now preparing for round B. With that in mind it'd be nice if people could come crawling out of PM land and post a bit in the thread so that we have reasons to keep you alive. I for one will not be putting a vote on someone unless they've been posting in the thread consistently. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Why are you discussing shit you know is pointless and dumb btw? Do you think I'm scum? Why aren't you just helping us get shit done here? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:47 wherebugsgo wrote: Also I guarantee you that those names you just listed will be in the majority tomorrow if they all voted the same. Well, hopefully enough people are not being assholes to actually follow through with the plan. Do you agree with my reads? You have yet to contribute even a single thing to the actual scumhunting conversation. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:49 Motbob is great wrote: o you still not understand? The only way to lynch someone is to force them into the majority, if you try and artificially create a majority you automatically make it so the mafia can manipulate it. No, mafia cannot manipulate shit if people actually agree with doing it. Let's say that all 12 townies in the game decide "I'm going to follow Palmar's plan" irrelevant of my alignment, mafia cannot do jack shit without revealing themselves. I'm perfectly fine with passing the crown on tomorrow. The problem is there are going to be some dumb as fuck townies who think they're being clevur by breaking the plan, so it will be impossible to tell those lone-ranger-assholes apart from mafia by just this. I don't get what's so hard to understand | ||
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Motbob is great
Wales28 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:46 Palmar wrote: Yeah that's it. I'm going with 5 people pardoned: Palmar, Syllo, Foolishness, Radfield and gonzaw (over prplhz) We're basically shooting shit right now because of you Palmar. First off, by just announcing to the thread which people you're pardoning, you're basically begging to have people jump ship and climb on the minority if they weren't on your magic list. Secondly... actually I really don't have much to say, your plan is just blatantly bad. Please read my posts and don't go with Palmar's plan. Flip a coin if you have to but don't do what Palmar is saying. | ||
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