EPTSurprisingly Normal Mini Mafia X
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yomi
United States773 Posts
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yomi
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I have the mafia bug now | ||
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##vote: majugarzett | ||
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You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz. I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway. | ||
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On April 23 2012 11:11 MajuGarzett wrote: You still have not given evidence as to why I would be mafia, that's two posts in a row you've avoided the question. Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible. Also, you say mafia are afraid to take concrete stances when you're original post stated that you were not sure that anyone should be lynched. Initially claiming you may not want to lynch anybody, then launching seemingly unfounded accusations, then pressuring everyone else to follow you blindly seems pretty scummy to me. you need to work on your reading comprehension and hyperbole if you want to succeed in this game. What have I accused you of that is unfounded? When did I pressure everyone to vote for you? Please quote me saying these things. I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie. | ||
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On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote: Please quote me saying these things. | ||
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On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote: 1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju? 2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened? Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching. | ||
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they were in those other games (if it's just a few). And links to the games. I played one other game, I was mafia in that game. Here's the link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328038 Here's my filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328038&user=8344 btw everyone has posted at least once | ||
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yomi
United States773 Posts
On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote: 1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju? 2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened? 1. why not? Why do you guys think this is somehow contradictory? It's not. I don't know how to explain it other than to restate it. I don't think we necessarily should, but IF WE DO, here's my vote. maybe my answer to #2 will clarify 2. Because it makes people take sides and it starts a real discussion instead of the really stupid typical day 1 shit (like this conversation). You see how people react when they get REAL pressure on them. Not "i'm just doing this to pressure you teeheehee" baby shit. Real pressure that's really believable. I'm genuinely voting for maju. Not just seeing his reaction. I was going to sit on that vote until I got a reaction I can really respond to (more on that later). I find it really telling how certain people flip out over one vote when the point of the game is to vote. I also think it's very humorous that some of you would honestly believe a mafia would play this way. If you have accused me of being scummy and this is not your first game, you are on my red list. Because any remotely experienced player knows that fearless town play (you think I didn't know I would get a backlash?) wins games and that mafia DO NOT play this way. so vote guys. trust me it's a lot better. day 1 is so so painful and full of ridiculous awful shit. it's better if everyone just votes asap and we can see what happens and we can always back down from the votes later if we aren't sure enough to go through with it. If you are afraid to post information about yourself, you are red. When you analyze posts don't just "look for suspicion". What are you suspicious OF? Suspicious that I play aggressively? Is this how mafia play? Think about what would a mafia do? What is the player trying to accomplish with this post? This is probably the most interesting post for me so far On April 23 2012 23:33 oneplus wrote: 1) Yomi try to start the game with a random lynch on Maju trying to pressure him for discussion in my point of view , he is either trying to scumhunt or he is a scum. Also, he is not targeting the lurkers but Maju which is a bit werid for me. Btw why bring history in? This will only make you become more suspicious. I think that past history shouldn't be taken account hence this is a new game. But I don't think Yomi is scum because it's simply too dangerous for scum to act in such way, high chance he will be lynch if he randomly target someone in this case who is Maju. For me it looks like scumhunt more than scum. 2) Zealots is pretty much a 1 liner who doesn't really contribute anything yet, he is a decent vote at the moment. 3)Well everyone has posted something but they didn't say much they just say lynch someone which could be suspicious such as dracolich and insecto we might need more from them. 4)Inmallinson just pointed out he's a mafia last game is this intentionally? hmm... He correctly identifies that I am not scum since a mafia would not play this way. BUT he objects to posting information about himself and encourages others not to do it? very very red thing to say. This will only make you become more suspicious. make who more suspicious? me? "one" in general? you? why would posting information about yourself make you suspicious? On the other hand he is defending the top lynch target which a mafia should not do right now. But on my last game when I was mafia I was really concerned with building town cred by "calling" all the lynches correctly. Ya, it's WIFOM, but I think it's a common mafia ploy. All the town seem to think playing aggro is a mafia trait. It's not. But this guy has interpreted it differently. Why? Is he more perceptive than you guys or trying to position himself to "i told you so" when I get lynched and flip town. When I played mafia, I tried to do the latter. 4) wtf? intentionally what? I mean he didn't type it by accident. What do you mean by this? @maju why are you playing so defensively? You have one vote on you. you need 6 or 7 to die. no one else has shown any interest in voting for you. you are in no danger. yet you can't do much other than ask me why I'm voting for your 3 or 4 times in a row. mafia play to survive, town plays to win. @dracolich if you think we can have "valid" information on day1 you are fooling yourself. no investigation roles went out so there is no valid information. we can't even get voting patterns b/c no one will vote. most everyone said we should lynch day 1 yet has taken no action towards accomplishing that. On April 24 2012 00:22 ForTheDr3am wrote: but it seems that there is only one actual vote on him up to now, making me think that there are still people with an interest to keep him alive. please elaborate on this comment also note FTD is the 2nd player to openly criticize the sharing of information. | ||
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how can this request meet so much disagreement and noncompliance? | ||
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On April 24 2012 03:37 ForTheDr3am wrote: @yomi: You gave a very easy and obvious bandwagon to jump on, and I was surprised that apart from ArcticFox, nobody had voted for you yet. It seemed to me that you were implying the people that "have an interest in keeping me alive" were mafia. Was this not your implication? | ||
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On April 24 2012 02:06 mutant wrote: yomi: No. Not good enough. 1. Why do lie about not wanting a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju? 2. If you really want conversation, then why is your filter filled with baseless accusations and garbage like this: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 08:12 yomi wrote: hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote: not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said. On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote: I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway. On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote: I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie. On April 23 2012 15:36 yomi wrote: i told you why I voted for you. btw you are annoying i'm not talking to you any more for the next 12 hours It's pretty much nothing but pointless one-liners. And please, don't answer my questions with more one-liners. ##Vote: yomi I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a serious post. 1. Why do lie about not wanting a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju? Um...really? Where do I lie? Specifically quote for me what I said that's a lie. YOUR post is actually a lie because it is such a gross, obvious, intentional misrepresentation of what I've said. Sorry "one-liners" offend you so much. I'll be sure not to post when I have a single concise statement to make. Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching. what about this statement do you disagree with? what's "not good enough" about it? I think it's a perfectly legitimate rational for coming out strong and voting for someone. | ||
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On April 24 2012 10:15 ArcticFox wrote: Doing your research is all part of the game. You should have already done this if you're town and trying to do meta-reads. Also quite the aggressive way to get people to do it. trying to hide information I'm not sure why you're trying to draw attention to the way people have played in the other games. You're posting is pretty close to how you acted in our last game (Newbie 8), where you were scum, and I also put my vote on you Day 1. all true statements Furthermore, posting metaplay in the main thread is distracting -- anyone who's interested has already done it, and if there's not a case being made based on it, it's pointless to bring it in without having a relevant discussion attached. It's entirely different if you're bringing up someone's filter from another game specifically to make a case. Without making cases, it's another way to fluff up your post count without actually contributing anything, plus it brings up easy ways to WIFOM and distract the thread into a meaningless discussion. Side note -- I'm loathe to do connection play this early, but I find it highly interesting that the only person so far to follow along with this idea of yours to post our game history is my 2nd strongest scumread right now. @Zealos, your filter still reads full of one-liners, a negative attitude, and a whole bunch of posting without saying anything. I'd like your best scum read so far, based on the information we have, and why? but this IS a connection play If you haven't read the newbie guide yet, go look up WIFOM and read about it. Talking about motivations leads you in circles. [/QUOTE] I don't think you get what this phrase "WIFOM" means. It doesn't mean you don't look at motivations. It means you don't confuse yourself with levels and levels of guessing games. "He knows that I know that he knows etc". The first one or two levels of guessing games are pretty much the only way to find mafia at all. Mafia will attempt to act in their best interest. Therefore if you identify a move you think benefits mafia, and someone makes that move, they are probably mafia. Do you agree with this reasoning? And if so how is it not "talking about motivations". | ||
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##unvote ##vote: imallinson | ||
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On April 24 2012 14:52 mutant wrote: You don't want to lynch You say you don't want a lynch, I asked you to quote when I say these things before and I'll ask you to do the same now. oh oops YOU don't need to use "mere" quotes, your analysis will do us better. This is all your lie. Not a mere quote, but an analysis of your actions. derp? what is a "mere" quote? Please indulge me and quote where I said I don't want a lynch. Mafia don't make the little "slips" you guys are looking for. You have to read into their actions and words. If you could get past your confirmation bias you would see how clear what I said is. You mean for the vote to be a contradiction of me saying I'm not sure we should. Actually it is showing that "not 100% sure" means, just what it sounds like. NOT 100%. How do you interpret not 100% sure as meaning less than 50% sure? Especially when the very next thing I do is vote for someone. Could "not 100% sure" mean "we probably should", but not "we definitely should"? You are so ridiculous and desperate. the way you are trying to convince people to vote In what way am I trying to convince people to vote? And you also flame :/ And here we have the real reason most of you are voting for me. You confuse "suspicious" with "mean" or "I don't like like him". You have to think what would a mafia do? Is this a mafia play? Or is bandwagoning on to what appears to be a popular town lynch a mafia thing to do? So yes, a great rationale. It is not, however, yours. When did you catch on that I quoted you back to yourself? For those not following: Mutant says: I would like to reiterate ForTheDr3am's assertion that lynching on day 1 is crucial. First of all, if we hit scum, then we are way ahead of the game, as it is balanced around not killing scum day 1. Secondly, the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching. If we don't lynch day 1, we lose an entire day's worth of crucial information, And then asks me this question in the same post Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened? Isn't this more than a bit ridiculous? Look at the information we're getting out of people's votes! And here we are discussing votes and why we are doing them. It would appear YOU feel you have gotten a lot of information out of this discussion because you believe you have found scum. When I vote and play aggressive it's scum behavior. But when you advocate it it's trying to get information. Could I be the one most aggressively trying to get information? If you genuinely believed I was scum, why would you be so upset about me making a scum move? Notice AF's humorous but telling remark where he encourages a player he suspects to "keep acting summy". Yet you are enraged that a mafia would act in a mafia way. Is this genuine scum hunting? ##fos: mutant | ||
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As far as not lyching, obviously if we do lynch it's going to be me so that's bad. But in general I'm not sure how certain you have to be for a profitable lynch. The baseline is 3/12 = .25. If we lynch when we are 50% sure: day 1 you lose town night 1 lose town day 2 kill mafia night 2 lose town day 3 lose town night 3 lose town day 4 kill mafia night 4 lose town and now we have 1 mafia vs 3 town players. So you don't have to be THAT sure to lynch. And this is with losing the first 50/50 and no town power role block/heal/vigi etc. | ||
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/shrug dont know what else to do | ||
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first thing I realized I attributed a quote to AF that was actually from nreekay. on zealos: This is one of the most Scummy first day's I've seen in my 3 games so far. This I thought was really weird because I, myself, am having a very hard time picking out scum. As I said before, it is just so easy for them to fit in with the lurkers and bandwagoners. I don't know what he thinks is so scummy about the posting, I don't think anyone has posted anything super suspicious. Then he makes this attack on yomi that makes very little sense to me + Show Spoiler + Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched. the case against me is pretty stupid because mafia don't play the way I'm playing. BUT this is probably the best statement of it. Notice the lack of the later hyperbole where I am actually correctly quoted "he says he ISN'T SURE" about lynching someone. later attacks all misquote (actually everyone refuses to use real quotes this game derp) me saying I explicitly opposed a lynch. Also I like how it actually connects the dots to a motivation "he's a mafia who wants to get a townie lynched". Others basically don't like me and my aggressive play and equate that with "suspicion" but here it makes some sense. but mafia don't go about getting people lynched this way. He claims at the end of the post however, I only said Maju's argument was flawed, no the conclusion. But he hasn't really explained why it's flawed. And he says I'm his #2 yet says the case against me is flawed. @zealos So if the argument is flawed, what is the correct argument for lynching me? I think this may be a mafia trying to set themselves up for a 1-2. He knows the lynch on me is pretty much going through no matter what and he wants to be on the good side of it. He wants to make it yomi vs maju. So then when I flip green he can get town to go onto maju, a weak player he knows won't be able to defend himself. This is how I played the last game. I meekly opposed the first lynch to gain town cred just so I could then push through my first day choice. If he actually defended me that's one thing. The people that have really defended me are pretty much town. No mafia would defend what seems like a sure-lynch. But this way he gets to jump on the obvious next target a bit early without impeding the lynch on me. Also the introduction is too apologetic. This is typical of TLers to be way overly polite but only mafia really apologize and suck up to town. He's from the UK where people are generally a little more blunt. while I was writing this daniel quit. I think town are way more likely to quit than mafia. People voting for me does not equal mafia. People defending me equals town. UNLESS they are trying to build town cred by "calling" the lynch correctly, and are targetting on to the next most likely to be lynched players. oneplus is definitely not doing this. draco is in a lot of ways by making the same play as zealos. he's getting ready to quote himself when I flip town and say see, I told you so, now look at my case against maju in the context of maju vs yomi. but maju vs yomi has never really been a big thing like draco and zealos want to make it out to be. we flamed each other with one liners in the first few pages and it flickered out and is no big deal now. he wants to quote this tomorrow: Thirdly when yomi votes for him, he immediately counter-accuses yomi, with this: "Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched." I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such. He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, nreeke also defended me somewhat but I'm not so sure about him and am getting really tired I've been writing this post forever mutant is a fucking nutjob. watch this guy. I think he's the xatalos of last game, just a super eager emotionally invested towny but read the guy's filter. really intense. very very interested in my lynch. how can a town be so unequivocal right now? I'll excuse it in AF b/c he played the last game w/ me and I am playing this one very similarly and he has a little grudge against me I guess from last game. the game is a lot harder as town I'll tell you that. but look at who defended me and why. mostly these people are going to be your townies, as the level 1 thinking is that a mafia would want to push through a lynch on a towny asap (mutant). But we can give them credit for being a little more clever than that. Watch for people who are trying to set up for a play off of me flipping town. Remember all the mafia in the game right now know that I am about to flip green and want to position themselves to come out strong tomorrow and build a case around my having flipped green. They pretty much "won" today whenever I got to like 3 or 4 votes it was clear I was going down. Then they would have started to create false dichotomies around me vs x player to build off of tomorrow. I'm heading to the library now, I'm sure I'll look at the thread again but this is prob my last big post. good luck guys. you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia. firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy. | ||
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1) lurk 2) defend themselves 3) bandwagon they DO NOT: 1) stick their neck out 2) play risky 3) create original cases unless there is a dire need for it (see last game me vs xatalos). maju is really new and is prob just a noob but still you gotta watch him. draco made a pretty great post against the guy | ||
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oneplus = town for defending me when a mafia never would zealos mafia for setting up for tomorrow to hit maju draco may be trying to do the same thing, I tried to look at the exact sequence of events but im getting tired now. his defense of me was pretty genuine and mutant suspicious because he is a manic and tunneling really hard and shutting down discussion of anything but me. but I don't think mafia play quite this aggro. af is prob town, but I dunno I think he is a pretty good player who could hide it really well and try to play this town leader mafia style. that's really risky though I don't think beginners do that. | ||
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you are the only other active player lol so it's up to you to no-lynch. no other target is possible obv. this thread is too passive to do any last minute shenanigans like we did last game. maybe that will be a good thing in the future who knows. not much I can say to convince you, you were the player I thought would FOR SURE vote me if I played this way but I thought I could prob survive it and come out with a lot of good info based on how people reacted to a real "event" instead of how day 1 is, normally where people talk about talking about things. my plan was: get people to post if they had played a game before or not. I am genuinely too lazy to search everyone and see what games they played, I'm not even sure how to do this. filter by subforum I guess? If they HAD played a game and also were suspicious of me, that would put them on my suspicious list because an experienced player would know that mafia don't play how I'm playing now. Except for me last game. But last game I was always thinking "what would I do if I was town". And I thought hey, if I'm town, I come out here swinging and get in a fight and see what happens. That will get something real going. Then do what I was just doing in my last post, see who miraculously "knew" I was going to flip town. The way I, in a panic last game, made some vague allusion to not lynching willz on day 1 because I thought it would build town cred. So that was my amazing plan and I still think it will work as you guys will now be able to read back and see how it all played out. who defended, lurked, and bandwagoned. | ||
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