EPTTL Mafia 'Area' LIII - Page 63
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:09 Risen wrote: I just posted a giant case and spoilered it, but it seems no one is going to read it b/c it's spoilered. Do I need to repost it in all its massive glory so that someone will respond? Wtf :/ Nah, I read it and I agree with it. I havent finished reading everything, but so far I had an idea I thought I will write down the VE voters relationships maybe we can figure something out. Sentinel attacked BM Ottox did not attack anyone from this grp marv attacked Zeph BM defending Zeph and marv laya attacking marv, defending zeph Zeph attacking BM, and marv I think this will not make a strong read, but I try If Sentinel is scummy, we should investigate Zeph and vice versa If laya is scummy we should investigate Zeph and vice versa If marv is scummy we should investigate BM and vice versa . So my read is there are 0 or 2 scums in the VE voter group, maybe we can use this later This post in particular I just couldn't wrap my mind around and I thought I was missing something that you guys discussed because it made no sense. Looks like I'm not alone. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:11 PaqMan wrote: We lynch to kill scum, right? We do not lynch to kill town, right? And you really really really did not want VE lynched, right? Sooo, yeah... If you read through your filter you can see how hard you were defending VE. You were defending him with so much vigor that you even declared anyone voting for him should be lynched/vigi'd. Wanna know why I was defending with so much vigor? Because I've been in that same spot. I thought after GoT that no one would be bad enough to vote for a claimed blue like that after I was lynched following my blue claim w/ a red detection. On top of this he was our DOCTOR role. How is this hard to understand?! It's SO SIMPLE :/ I'm doing my best to stay calm and not curse and not get modkilled like BJ, but I'm having a really hard time. | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:09 Risen wrote: I just posted a giant case and spoilered it, but it seems no one is going to read it b/c it's spoilered. Do I need to repost it in all its massive glory so that someone will respond? Wtf :/ It's a good case. I was already considering voting him today before, now it's more likely. The only comment I had was on your first small point, I think the reason he said he hadn't played any TL games was because he was specifically asked. But that's not really an important point anyways. I still want an answer from him about my question, though. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:18 Risen wrote: Wanna know why I was defending with so much vigor? Because I've been in that same spot. I thought after GoT that no one would be bad enough to vote for a claimed blue like that after I was lynched following my blue claim w/ a red detection. On top of this he was our DOCTOR role. How is this hard to understand?! It's SO SIMPLE :/ I'm doing my best to stay calm and not curse and not get modkilled like BJ, but I'm having a really hard time. You do remember Mafia LI where you called me scum because I didn't vote for the blue-claiming VE, don't you? Like, VE was scum there and you were right. But we can't pretend all blue claims = valid = can't lynch. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:18 Risen wrote: Wanna know why I was defending with so much vigor? Because I've been in that same spot. I thought after GoT that no one would be bad enough to vote for a claimed blue like that after I was lynched following my blue claim w/ a red detection. On top of this he was our DOCTOR role. How is this hard to understand?! It's SO SIMPLE :/ I'm doing my best to stay calm and not curse and not get modkilled like BJ, but I'm having a really hard time. Just saying I was in the thread while this was going on, and it was definitely risen pushing don't lynch a claimed doctor on day 1, it wasn't because he knew he was town, it was because it was incredibly stupid to lynch VE at that time, I was doing the same cause I agree'd with what he was saying and doing. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote: You do remember Mafia LI where you called me scum because I didn't vote for the blue-claiming VE, don't you? Like, VE was scum there and you were right. But we can't pretend all blue claims = valid = can't lynch. That was day 2, completely different situation. He claimed DT without knowing his sanity. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:23 Mementoss wrote: That was day 2, completely different situation. He claimed DT without knowing his sanity. ? Risen's claim in GoT wasn't Day 1 either. I'm not claiming the cases were the same, I was just saying (to repeat) that we can't pretend all blue claims = valid = can't lynch. I'm not backhandedly having a stab at Risen either, I was just making a sidepoint. Now I'm going to stop talking about it because it's clogging unnecessarily. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
layabout, I can't explain my motivations to you if you insist that you know them better than I do. It will be incredibly ironic when VE gets his wish of getting me mislynched, albeit in a different game when we're both town  . | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On April 24 2012 10:16 Zephirdd wrote: It was one hour before the deadline, there wouldn't be any bandwagon. Besides, I suggested marv there because people had been voting him. In that specific post, I hadn't had analyzed people yet. I meant that marvellosity was a reasonable player to place a vote on and not look bad for voting VE. There was nothing wrong there. This post really pisses me off. I already posted I didn't like this and I thought it was contradictory. After I posted my disapproval of this post he says "Let me just place a palm in my face in the hopes that you realize how much of a bad logic that was." To restate what's wrong with it, if it's not obvious...it's that he says he Votes Marv because people had been voting him. Ok, sheeping. He hadn't analyzed him yet. Ok, relying on other people to be right. That's all scummy but the next thing blows it away. "I meant that marvellosity was a reasonable player to place a vote on and not look bad for voting VE". I think this is basically claiming scum because he basically admits to knowing how VE would flip. He knew he'd look bad if he voted VE before the lynch. How is that possible? Because he's mafia, obviously. His vote on marvellosity aside, that line alone makes him almost 100% scum in my eyes, and I already suspected him at that point. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:25 marvellosity wrote: ? Risen's claim in GoT wasn't Day 1 either. I'm not claiming the cases were the same, I was just saying (to repeat) that we can't pretend all blue claims = valid = can't lynch. I'm not backhandedly having a stab at Risen either, I was just making a sidepoint. Now I'm going to stop talking about it because it's clogging unnecessarily. I'm saying it doesn't matter. VEs claim without knowing his sanity meant that you could logically vote for him. A detective claim before LYLO with guaranteed sanity following a confirmed red check like I did in GoT is not a logical lynch. A lynch of a claimed doctor role Day 1 is also not logical. That's what it comes down to. I'm not saying all blue claims deserve to = do not lynch this person, but in some cases it makes logical sense to not lynch that person. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:30 St.Daniel wrote: Sorry, I'm being replaced out and I didn't wanted to get modkilled. Could this be the case in this game as well, or since St.Daniel is active RIGHT NOW, will he make an effort to post/read/anything. Also where is BKexe I thought he was a promising newbie. Guess not. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:34 Mementoss wrote: FROM SNMM X: Could this be the case in this game as well, or since St.Daniel is active RIGHT NOW, will he make an effort to post/read/anything. Also where is BKexe I thought he was a promising newbie. Guess not. Good catch Mementoss. You know what gets me about BroodkingEXE? Look at his filter in his Newbie game. He posted A LOT in this game although he was lynched Day 1. There may or may not be external reasons for this but I don't like the comparison. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On April 25 2012 09:27 johnnywup wrote: I guess since no one's voting Zephirdd, I'll have to remake a case against him. I'm only going to post my thoughts on one post because I think it's enough to show how scummy Zephirdd is. This post really pisses me off. I already posted I didn't like this and I thought it was contradictory. After I posted my disapproval of this post he says "Let me just place a palm in my face in the hopes that you realize how much of a bad logic that was." To restate what's wrong with it, if it's not obvious...it's that he says he Votes Marv because people had been voting him. Ok, sheeping. He hadn't analyzed him yet. Ok, relying on other people to be right. That's all scummy but the next thing blows it away. "I meant that marvellosity was a reasonable player to place a vote on and not look bad for voting VE". I think this is basically claiming scum because he basically admits to knowing how VE would flip. He knew he'd look bad if he voted VE before the lynch. How is that possible? Because he's mafia, obviously. His vote on marvellosity aside, that line alone makes him almost 100% scum in my eyes, and I already suspected him at that point. If I were to be scum I would know how he would flip so it would be smarter to place my vote on him. Anyhow, I'm baffled about how much people can't consolidate reads. My scum reads are actually similar to BH's: marv, Midnight and Ottoxlol look bad to me. In fact, I'd say Ottoxlol is a better target than Sentinel for now. StDaniel seems legit inactive so I think he is fine atm. BKindEXE simply disappeared and should be replaced/modkilled soon. Janaan is lacking and looks increasingly similar to me on SCell2. Anyone voting for Risen and Bill Murray are doing it wrong. I'm having little time to research and pull off a pretty fluffy case like most of you can, but these are my reads. At least I'm taking a stance over several people, things some of you aren't. Also johnny, I know how you feel. The "LOL HE CERTAIN SCUM" thing. That's me on Purgatory about Spaackle. You're doing it wrong; Try to get over it. Try to not get sentimental over it: when/if I flip, you'll be really, really disappointed and you will lose tons of motivation. Anyways, that's what I can say for now. | ||
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
He posts a quick defense of Marv, shown here: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 11:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Marv, not counting his first 5-10 posts, hasn't actually done anything worth the lynch. I mean, if he was on the guillotine and I had to give ONE reason to lynch him, it would be fluffing. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because it pales in comparison to: + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 20:13 BlazingJitsu wrote: Marvellosity. Let me talk to you. No correction let me talk AT you. what are you doing this game? Let's look at your filter + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 09:05 marvellosity wrote: Mattchew, I thought we were gonna have a long, happy, and romp-filled relationship, then you make me click on multiple spoilers. On April 21 2012 10:23 marvellosity wrote: I've tried to think of a bunch of different scenarios and I've not yet managed to picture one where mafia couldn't claim the same situation. The only way a vigi really clears himself is by shooting scum :/ On April 21 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: Holy gonzaw post. Nice ^--- These posts are short and worthless. ^--- this post is actually correct, but interestingly, despite the fact that it's the right time to talk about the game mechanics... you never talk about the game mechanics. You ask some unhelpful questions and echo worthless obvious shit other people have said, but otherwise you're deadweight. Where's your contributions, Marv? Where's the discussion that it is "absolute the right time" to talk about? or do you only have inane questions? ^=== HOLY SHIT this question is bad. holy shit. Of course there's good circumstances to make a vig shot! SHOOT A SCUM GUY. Christ. Even if you shoot a godfather, at least that's a data point (not quite a DT check's worth, because it might hasve been roleblock), and if you shoot a goon, hey, you shot a goon. Are you TRYING to be as unhelpful as possible? Are you TRYING to actively inhibit our blue roles? Surely if so it's through neither quality of prose nor persistence in communicating the ideas contained therein with your miniscule cumuluative post length. Typically this is where I say "you can do better, marv" but really, ANYONE could do better. You're shitting on the town and trying to build up a post count without saying ANYTHING. You're lurking in plain sight. ##vote: marvellosity. -Blazinghand Especially the part about a good time to make a vig shot. First off, the tone of BH's post is like sulfuric acid to my lemon juice. I've never, ever, seen him post like that before. Second, BH should have more of a problem with VE. Marv asked a stupid question? Big fucking whoop. We've all done it at one point or another, it's not a death sentence. Unwarranted, this is. He makes two FoS, St. Daniel: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 11:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Um... St. Daniel has one post? How are we supposed to analyze this? This is fluff. All of it. He posted seven hours ago, and I'm feeling a little generous so I'll wait till he posts again before making final judgment. But definitely flashing red to me. And Brood: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 11:16 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: EBWOP: Brood has one post too (at least one with any substance). This is a little better than St. Dan because it actually talks about vig mechanics. But I don't see how that creates such a disparity that we barely talk about Brood but cast suspicion on St. Dan. On April 22 2012 11:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: EBWODP: I'm suspicious of Brood too. Need to mention that so it doesn't look like I'm contradicting myself in my second post. Here we can see his voteswitch from Ghost to VE: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"? Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE. ##Unvote: ghost_403 ##Vote: VisceraEyes St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. His next important post is his self-defense of Gonzaw's case against him: + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 05:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: + Show Spoiler [My defense vs. Gonzaw] + On April 24 2012 12:18 gonzaw wrote: Is it against the rules to talk in this time?  No, but thanks for helping me read less text. Anyways, I seem to be falling into the red again, so let's get to business. On April 24 2012 09:16 gonzaw wrote: Sentinel I think he's scum. Here is his first "important" post: (All the ones before that one were just useless filler.) <<My first important post>> He just posts this to defend himself. All the 1st points of this posts are him making excuses and defending himself against accusations. Can't argue with that. That's actually the reason I came out of the woodwork in the first place. He suspects sloosh for some arbitrary reason (sloosh saying "I like Ottoxlul"). Notice how he never mentions his thoughts about sloosh again in the whole game This is my thought process at the time: 1. Read filters, including sloosh's. 2. Observe that sloosh's is starting out bad because post is scummy. 3. Sloosh makes pretty good argument vs. VE. I buy it and not care about sloosh again. His next point is an OMGUS against ghost. His reasoning for voting ghost is that ghost thinks he's scum and didn't post "reasoning" behind it, which is bogus since ghost did offer some reasoning behind it here: <<reasoning behind it here>> You know what else happens in that post? Just like I told many other players, he completely ignores the current discussion at hand He ignores everything about VE, the cases made against him, or the discussion about my "scumslip" and shit. He ignores the Mattchew vs Paqman deal, and he ignores the BH vs marv deal as well. His only motivation for making that post is to: -Defend himself -Offer a shitty vote on a player that has NOTHING to do with the current discussion You call that reasoning? I call it a pretty stupid idea to lynch me. I didn't think enough of VE to address him. All I said is that sloosh's case looks pretty good. Marv (and St. Dan and Brood) I actually get to. And of course I'm going to defend myself, because that's what you're supposed to do when you're under suspicion. His post only serves to disrupt, misdirect discussion and respond to accusations so he's not in the spotlight. His next posts are filler too, he doesn't contribute anything worthwhile. He then starts arguing with ghost, yet he never states if he thinks ghost is scum or not in those posts He just argues against ghost for the sake of arguing and defending himself, he's not scumhunting AT ALL, not even against those that he supposedly thinks is scum. (For example, these posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#443 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#454 ) At that point I was more pissed off at ghost than willing to support the town. Otherwise I can't argue with that. This is the FIRST post in the whole game where he actually discusses the current events: Is wishy washy regarding marv, and here is where the fun begins: In the next few posts, Sentinel starts into a "suspicion-spree", spouting names of players and players and how he finds them slightly suspicious or is wishy washy regarding them Here are the posts: BH: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#457 Daniel: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#459 Brood: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#460 Dan and Brood had shit posts but I gave them the benefit of the doubt since they had so little, and by calling them out for that I would be a hypocrite. Red but redeemable. He's wishy washy about them or suspicious about them, but doesn't mention them at all later (he only mentions Daniel and Brood one more time, nothing else), or pressure them, or discuss them, or posting more thoughts about them. He just soughts suspicion on those players and then forgets about them. His initial suspicion of sloosh falls in this category as well. Erm, sloosh was in my first post? I actually mentioned them again in my vote on VE: Now comes his vote on VE: Really? Here is his reasoning for voting VE: Notice how this is the first time in the game he mentions VE He never mentioned when VE called me out and started his "lynch gonzaw!" crusades, I wasn't here for that and skimmed the thread nor mentioned him when I and sloosh posted cases against him, I wasn't here for that and skimmed the thread or when other people mentioned him. He mentions him only after he claims, and what does he say? Almost nothing. His "What the hell is a..." statement is useless since it doesn't state anything about his opinion on the matter. I thought it was pretty obvious that I was indignant at his claim and didn't believe it. His "Coupled with......" statement is just very vague and doesn't really say anything about VE's alignment. Apart from that he doesn't say anything else about VE, he doesn't post more thoughts about VE, or about other current discussions about VE either. You can bust me for lack of content but I think the message was pretty clear. "Bullshit, you're scum and I'm voting you for it. Do I really need to work on my word choice that much? Oh, yeah he also mentioned my case about Risen a little bit: ...but is completely wishy washy about it, fails to make an actual opinion on it, and only serves to "ask" about Risen's past games. Then when layabout actually goes through the effort of linking to said games, Sentinel doesn't mention it at all nor mentions Risen at all. Do you want me to start posting "Oh. Ok. Yeah, that make sense, carry on." every time I've felt that way in the thread? Because really on a lot of things, all I can really start saying is "Yeah, I agree with this." because they've pretty much got the whole subject covered. Conclusion: [list] [*]Sentinel is just posting to avoid the spotlight. When he posts he either just defends himself against accusations, he posts fluff and filler about useless things (like that "QT=/=PM" post), or posts wishy-washy stances on other players Yeah, I'm guilty of doing that. Can't say anything about that. [*]He ignores all current discussions and posts things that are irrelevant to them. He talks about players that have nothing to do with the discussion (and like said before in a wishy-washy manner), he talks about current events way too late and doesn't provide any new (or even remotely useful) content regarding it [*]Starts fighting with ghost to disrupt the thread, starts FoSing him but after they keep fighting he fails to take a stance on the ghost subject, he just argues with him for the sake of arguing. Again, I was pissed. If I was scum I wouldn't be pissed because ghost would be telling the truth and I would be only bullshitting. [*]He is "suspicious" and wishy washy about a lot of players and never makes the effort of mentioning them again or contributing more thoughts about them. My total was three? [*]He votes VE without any reasoning and only based on VE "trying to sway townies", and nothing else Yadda yadda yadda end of argument Altogether I think his defense is weak. It contains a bunch of one-liner excuses. I haven't seen anything pro-town from him besides his case against Ottoxlol. He doesn't bother to keep up with the thread or current discussions unless it's to defend himself. I'm not going to argue against lynching him. However, I still think there are better options on the table than Sentinel. Will read zepphird. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
Did anyone read my post on Zeph's post? I feel like Zeph should be getting more votes by now. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
For the lazy, the summary of gonzaw's Sentinel case:
It does seem that since then he's posted with a lot more relevancy. What do people think about this? | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
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