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TL Mafia 'Area' LIII - Page 61

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Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
April 24 2012 21:52 GMT
#1201
On April 25 2012 06:44 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2012 06:41 Mattchew wrote:
On April 25 2012 06:39 marvellosity wrote:
On April 25 2012 06:37 Mattchew wrote:
when you say badly defending people, do you mean badly as in his reasoning and logic is bad, or do you mean bad because you think they are bad people to defend?


the soft defences were on BM/Sentinel

I meant badly as in reasoning/logic. On zephirdd, picking up on his pre-day 1 lynch behaviour, which as i made clear in my post was irrelevant. Followed by quoting half of my subsequent case where i was simply laying things out.

the problem I have is i don't disagree with what layabout wrote about BM/Sentinel. I don't know about zeph cause thats more of a you and him issue, but his other 2 posts seem to not be soft defenses as much as his reason for disagreeing. I don't find them scummy


Alright, I'm willing to be wrong on this one. I'm going to keep it in my mind though because it jumped out at me.

At this point I think layabout has posted generally strongly, and he's not one of my scumreads. I just found what I posted to be odd.

I have this problem as well where I can't tell the difference between soft defense and (idk the term lets call it) "thread logic protection" and i also cant tell the difference between buddying and townies banding together to push a lynch
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
April 24 2012 21:56 GMT
#1202
Marv:
I do not think i did soft defend zeph. I stated that i thought he was not scummy, tried to elaborate on that and then criticised the case against him.

Sentinel:
Again that is a direct criticism of the case. It's relevant, and is not a soft defence.

BM:
see above post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14471152

I think that he is being pushed for horrible reasons. I don't think he has a very high chance of flipping mafia. But he is doing next to nothing to establish his innocence or help us and we don't owe him anything. He is "null"

his is play reminds me of jubjub (traitor) and death factory 2 (town sudo-dt)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=mafia&t=c&f=-1&u=Bill Murray&gb=date&d=

In all honesty i am sick of trying to figure out what he is when he doesn't seem to want to make it any easier. I do not think that there is much that can be analysed and i do not think anybody had made any points that show that he is any likelier to be scum than he would be by pure chance.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
April 24 2012 22:01 GMT
#1203
On April 25 2012 06:56 layabout wrote:
Marv:
I do not think i did soft defend zeph. I stated that i thought he was not scummy, tried to elaborate on that and then criticised the case against him.

Sentinel:
Again that is a direct criticism of the case. It's relevant, and is not a soft defence.

BM:
see above post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14471152

I think that he is being pushed for horrible reasons. I don't think he has a very high chance of flipping mafia. But he is doing next to nothing to establish his innocence or help us and we don't owe him anything. He is "null"

his is play reminds me of jubjub (traitor) and death factory 2 (town sudo-dt)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=mafia&t=c&f=-1&u=Bill Murray&gb=date&d=

In all honesty i am sick of trying to figure out what he is when he doesn't seem to want to make it any easier. I do not think that there is much that can be analysed and i do not think anybody had made any points that show that he is any likelier to be scum than he would be by pure chance.


What is your second best scum read behind MG?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
April 24 2012 22:02 GMT
#1204
I have class (now) and its been a long day I might post again tonight but it will probably be tomorrow
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
April 24 2012 22:04 GMT
#1205
On April 25 2012 06:43 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2012 06:40 layabout wrote:
On April 25 2012 06:17 Mattchew wrote:
into him ninja voting VE (not just some random), letting VE get lynched, yelling at others for lynching VE, and overall terrible posting. I think his town meta atleast has him say he'll try hard at somepoint

If that is the evolution of your case, then i think that your case is about to become a victim of natural selection
+ Show Spoiler +
Anyone?

In all seriousness
The ninja vote in that context is not alignment indicative.
Letting VE get lynch is something that only the people on BM did anything to stop.
Terrible posting is a vague criticism and depending on the critic could be misapplied or applied to nearly anyone in the game.
As far as i am aware he didn't yell at others for lynching VE, the closest post is here:

On April 24 2012 14:50 Bill Murray wrote:
I would be pretty hypocritical to vote him for that. I don't see it. It is really easy to mistake someone who is nervous with a Doctor or Jailkeeper role as being mafia... It's something we can't help. VE's vote for me was more like a placeholder. I was pretty busy during the time period. I didn't expect to get wagonned by mafia and for him to actually die. VE is a great player that shouldn't ever be lynched on D1. We should have lynched someone like Paqman on policy, though I'm glad we didn't now. His "we could have 3 vigs" comment cracked me up.

He says he put the vote on VE (which was before the claim)
He says he was busy and was unable to come back and change his vote.

The questionable part (unless you think he is a liar) is why he would put his place holder vote on a player that he thinks should never be lynched day1 one.

But when do we stop saying "oh its BM" and say "lynch that scum"

When we have a reason to.
eg. we have analysis that demonstrates that he is scum or we have plenty of storng town reads and the pool of players that scum lie in is small enough to make him a good lynch.

I am concerned about why Ottoxlol is suggesting that we try to link the alignments of players together on shaky grounds and then lynch into them to find scum. This is a recipe for mislynches aplenty* and looks worse when you consider that he did so under pressure, instead of giving us solid opinions about who he thinks is scum.

+ Show Spoiler [*] +
Do i need to explain this? Because i love a little bit of theorycraft.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
April 24 2012 22:06 GMT
#1206
On April 25 2012 07:04 layabout wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2012 06:43 Mattchew wrote:
On April 25 2012 06:40 layabout wrote:
On April 25 2012 06:17 Mattchew wrote:
into him ninja voting VE (not just some random), letting VE get lynched, yelling at others for lynching VE, and overall terrible posting. I think his town meta atleast has him say he'll try hard at somepoint

If that is the evolution of your case, then i think that your case is about to become a victim of natural selection
+ Show Spoiler +
Anyone?

In all seriousness
The ninja vote in that context is not alignment indicative.
Letting VE get lynch is something that only the people on BM did anything to stop.
Terrible posting is a vague criticism and depending on the critic could be misapplied or applied to nearly anyone in the game.
As far as i am aware he didn't yell at others for lynching VE, the closest post is here:

On April 24 2012 14:50 Bill Murray wrote:
I would be pretty hypocritical to vote him for that. I don't see it. It is really easy to mistake someone who is nervous with a Doctor or Jailkeeper role as being mafia... It's something we can't help. VE's vote for me was more like a placeholder. I was pretty busy during the time period. I didn't expect to get wagonned by mafia and for him to actually die. VE is a great player that shouldn't ever be lynched on D1. We should have lynched someone like Paqman on policy, though I'm glad we didn't now. His "we could have 3 vigs" comment cracked me up.

He says he put the vote on VE (which was before the claim)
He says he was busy and was unable to come back and change his vote.

The questionable part (unless you think he is a liar) is why he would put his place holder vote on a player that he thinks should never be lynched day1 one.

But when do we stop saying "oh its BM" and say "lynch that scum"

When we have a reason to.
eg. we have analysis that demonstrates that he is scum or we have plenty of storng town reads and the pool of players that scum lie in is small enough to make him a good lynch.

I am concerned about why Ottoxlol is suggesting that we try to link the alignments of players together on shaky grounds and then lynch into them to find scum. This is a recipe for mislynches aplenty* and looks worse when you consider that he did so under pressure, instead of giving us solid opinions about who he thinks is scum.

+ Show Spoiler [*] +
Do i need to explain this? Because i love a little bit of theorycraft.


Is the fact that he's a total newb an excuse for this?

Or do you think it's gone beyond this excuse by now?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
April 24 2012 22:18 GMT
#1207
What is your second best scum read behind MG?

for a time it was mementoss but i could not build a solid argument.
yesterday i felt that ottoxlol was green but his posts today have prompted me to re-think my position

At the moment it's Ottoxlol



There is likely scum among the lurkers but i have no magic way to find them:
i forgot that Broodking was playing for some time, he seemed eager to play before the game but is showing no signs of that now that we are underway
St.daniel is seeing another thread behind our back! but he has been absent form both games for some time which makes his lurking look less incriminating.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
April 24 2012 23:02 GMT
#1208
Some posts that stood out to me while catching up with the thread:

layabout pointed this out but I think it needs restating. Mattchew has been pushing BM since early early day 1 pushing him since early early day 1. Early day1= 20 minutes after day1 started before BM even posted. He has gotten scummier but that's not enough of a justification because since the beginning mattchew was ok with policy lynch. He was probably joking but he could have "planted the seed in our mind" from early on. I'm probably overthinking things though.

On April 21 2012 09:15 Mattchew wrote:
So anyway should we policy lynch Bill Murray because
a. he is scum in like 99% of his recent games
b. he gets away with everything "because he's Bill Murray"






On April 25 2012 05:33 MidnightGladius wrote:
Also, ghost, why are you so dedicated to the idea of lining up multiple lynches? Between now and the next Day, multiple people will have died, we might get a vig-claim, etc. It's incredibly naive to think that you're sufficiently sure today.


While true this post discounts Ghost's "plan" completely. His plan being the "Kill Sentinel today, Ottox tommorrow" plan. While I may not necessarily agree with it, MG doesn't actually talk about the "plan" itself. He says "You might not be alive tommorrow, they might not be alive tommorrow, so why even talk about it", essentially. Ghosts plan doesnt have to do with him being alive, so why bring it up, other than to distract the point and discount the idea.





On April 25 2012 06:38 Ottoxlol wrote:
I tried I came up with nothing. I posted it 10 times at least. I wouldn't get on any case just for the sake of having a case.


You can't find anyone scummy? Not even from other peoples reads and arguments? Ottox seems unwilling to take a stance, no matter how hard pressed.




I still think Zephirdd and Sentinel are best choices for the lynch today.
MidnightGladius
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
China1214 Posts
April 24 2012 23:03 GMT
#1209
Okay, next time I'll know not to try reading the thread when exhausted.

##Unvote: ghost_403

layabout, I'm never going to live that line expressing regret about VE down, am I? Next time, I'll be sure to just repeat everyone else saying that VE was bad, and that would be better, right?
Trust in Bayes.
Ottoxlol
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
735 Posts
April 24 2012 23:03 GMT
#1210
Risen
gonzaws case against him
He tried to defend VE, but with not the best tools

On April 24 2012 08:18 gonzaw wrote:
He just opposes the VE lynch for the sake of opposing it, and seems to ignore everything else that had to do with VE and VE's behaviour. It makes it seem like he wouldn't even care about VE at all and only cared about opposing his lynch.


After that he starts to rally people to other candidates (marv/bm). He explained that he did FoS these people only because they had votes on them so it would have been easier to get ahead of VE.

I think his reasoning is clear, I find him town.

BM
He doesnt post, ninja-votes. There is no real case against him because he doesn't post. I can't wrap my head around him, some say scummy, some say don't I can't really decide. If people want to lynch him I will have no objection at all.

Sentinel
He did not provide any reasoning on his vote for VE or get into the debate about it. A bit scummy. I would vote for him too

Marv.
From the beginning I felt like BJ is tunneling him too much, he answered his accusations but BJ couldn't understand them, I can relate to that. I am neutral towards him

Zephirdd
he defended himself with stating he afked, he's still not active enough, hard to judge.

Daniel
One real post, he votes BM but then promise us a case on marv and that he'll post, we are still waiting.

Brood
Two posts, he votes marv, I point out some inconsistency in his post but he did not respond. No posts, no case

johnnywup

On April 24 2012 13:12 MidnightGladius wrote:
That said, I still think that you're scum, johnny. You have zeph as your strongest scumread, but refuse to vote for him, and ask for town consensus first, when we've just started the day, and you have the most time to convince others? You have yet to actually push your own scumreads, outside of your earlier sheeping. Your unwillingness to actually put your vote where your voice is very suspicious, and I think that you're trying to gently push for a bandwagon without actually committing. This behavior is just like zeph's list earlier, which is why I'm of the opinion that you're bussing him.


I missed this case before, I think a couple of ppl too because no one really talked about this. I am feeling confident voting for johnny.

##Vote: johnnywup
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
April 24 2012 23:04 GMT
#1211
I'm back from class now. Haven't had time to read the thread since last night. Catching up now, will post thoughts.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
April 24 2012 23:06 GMT
#1212
On April 25 2012 08:02 johnnywup wrote:
Some posts that stood out to me while catching up with the thread:

layabout pointed this out but I think it needs restating. Mattchew has been pushing BM since early early day 1 pushing him since early early day 1. Early day1= 20 minutes after day1 started before BM even posted. He has gotten scummier but that's not enough of a justification because since the beginning mattchew was ok with policy lynch. He was probably joking but he could have "planted the seed in our mind" from early on. I'm probably overthinking things though.

Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 09:15 Mattchew wrote:
So anyway should we policy lynch Bill Murray because
a. he is scum in like 99% of his recent games
b. he gets away with everything "because he's Bill Murray"






Show nested quote +
On April 25 2012 05:33 MidnightGladius wrote:
Also, ghost, why are you so dedicated to the idea of lining up multiple lynches? Between now and the next Day, multiple people will have died, we might get a vig-claim, etc. It's incredibly naive to think that you're sufficiently sure today.


While true this post discounts Ghost's "plan" completely. His plan being the "Kill Sentinel today, Ottox tommorrow" plan. While I may not necessarily agree with it, MG doesn't actually talk about the "plan" itself. He says "You might not be alive tommorrow, they might not be alive tommorrow, so why even talk about it", essentially. Ghosts plan doesnt have to do with him being alive, so why bring it up, other than to distract the point and discount the idea.





Show nested quote +
On April 25 2012 06:38 Ottoxlol wrote:
I tried I came up with nothing. I posted it 10 times at least. I wouldn't get on any case just for the sake of having a case.


You can't find anyone scummy? Not even from other peoples reads and arguments? Ottox seems unwilling to take a stance, no matter how hard pressed.




I still think Zephirdd and Sentinel are best choices for the lynch today.


Good post until this point, can I get an explanation why you think they are scummy/ a better lynch than say Ottoxol or BM?
Those are the 4 I am thinking scum would be in for sure somewheres. Vigs I think tonight would be a good shooting night just saying lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
Janaan
Profile Joined June 2011
United States381 Posts
April 24 2012 23:27 GMT
#1213
Ottoxlol, I'd still like my question from earlier answered if possible, though it looks like you've changed your mind about it. This was from when you were suggesting we lynch BM for information.

On April 25 2012 02:55 Janaan wrote:
At work so I don't have much time.

Ottoxlol, my question to you is this: You say you want to lynch to gain information. Ok, fine. That's not a good mindset, but I'll accept that you think it's a good idea for a minute. What I don't understand is why that makes BM the best lynch. He himself hasn't given any firm stances, and as far as I can tell, there hasn't been anyone who hasn't at least questioned him for lurking, and NO ONE has defended him. So exactly what information will we gain from lynching him that makes it the best choice? Working from the mindset that lynching for information is a good idea, it would make more sense to me to lynch a more controversial target.


At the moment, you're leaning red for me, and I just want to hear your train of thought on this particular issue, even though you apparently AREN'T voting BM anymore. In fact, in addition to what I already asked, why did you change your mind on the issue?
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
April 24 2012 23:28 GMT
#1214
First of all, Gonzaw thought both Zeph and Sentinel were scum. Of course he's dead now, but having a confirmed townies opinions available and still relevant is a huge tool to have. Second of all, BM and ottox are both using bad logic and lurking, although more bad logic for ottox, more lurking from BM. This is obviously scummy but it can also be sometimes townie. Zephirdd is obvious scum to me, and I'm confident he'll flip favorably for town. Sentinel is as scummy as ottox or BM to me, but there are examples or more scummy intentions, and he was Gonzaws pick for a lynch. I'm not discounting the possibility of MG, or anyone else either, to be scum, but they seem the most likely. I think I'd prefer a MG lynch than an Ottox Lynch actually because Ottox seems just bad, which isn't a scum tell, while MG seems to have very specific scummy intentions.
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
April 24 2012 23:29 GMT
#1215
On April 25 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2012 07:04 layabout wrote:
On April 25 2012 06:43 Mattchew wrote:
On April 25 2012 06:40 layabout wrote:
On April 25 2012 06:17 Mattchew wrote:
into him ninja voting VE (not just some random), letting VE get lynched, yelling at others for lynching VE, and overall terrible posting. I think his town meta atleast has him say he'll try hard at somepoint

If that is the evolution of your case, then i think that your case is about to become a victim of natural selection
+ Show Spoiler +
Anyone?

In all seriousness
The ninja vote in that context is not alignment indicative.
Letting VE get lynch is something that only the people on BM did anything to stop.
Terrible posting is a vague criticism and depending on the critic could be misapplied or applied to nearly anyone in the game.
As far as i am aware he didn't yell at others for lynching VE, the closest post is here:

On April 24 2012 14:50 Bill Murray wrote:
I would be pretty hypocritical to vote him for that. I don't see it. It is really easy to mistake someone who is nervous with a Doctor or Jailkeeper role as being mafia... It's something we can't help. VE's vote for me was more like a placeholder. I was pretty busy during the time period. I didn't expect to get wagonned by mafia and for him to actually die. VE is a great player that shouldn't ever be lynched on D1. We should have lynched someone like Paqman on policy, though I'm glad we didn't now. His "we could have 3 vigs" comment cracked me up.

He says he put the vote on VE (which was before the claim)
He says he was busy and was unable to come back and change his vote.

The questionable part (unless you think he is a liar) is why he would put his place holder vote on a player that he thinks should never be lynched day1 one.

But when do we stop saying "oh its BM" and say "lynch that scum"

When we have a reason to.
eg. we have analysis that demonstrates that he is scum or we have plenty of storng town reads and the pool of players that scum lie in is small enough to make him a good lynch.

I am concerned about why Ottoxlol is suggesting that we try to link the alignments of players together on shaky grounds and then lynch into them to find scum. This is a recipe for mislynches aplenty* and looks worse when you consider that he did so under pressure, instead of giving us solid opinions about who he thinks is scum.

+ Show Spoiler [*] +
Do i need to explain this? Because i love a little bit of theorycraft.


Is the fact that he's a total newb an excuse for this?

Or do you think it's gone beyond this excuse by now?

No it does not.
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 21 2012 14:41 Ottoxlol wrote:
I haven't played mafia on tl

To the question you addressed to Paqman, I have some suspicions because some people doesnt like logic, but i think its too early to decide its their limitations or theyre scums.
If he has to specify that he hasn't played on TlL then it's likely that he has played mafia somewhere else. If this is the case then he should be treated like somebody that knows that he is advocating something bad. Also his questions while not productive, are pertinent so he is probably smart enough to realise why what he is suggesting is anti town


He was happy to be sitting back and critiquing others yesterday, too. Which can be a way of looking like you are contributing without achieving anything. His suggestion today and reaction to pressure looked bad to me when i read it. I think's it's worth reading over his day1 play and deciding how much of what he did was him trying to accomplish something and how much of it was trying to echo the sentiments of the thread.

MignightGladius is still a much better vote.

I will be posting again in about 18 hours and there better be votes on MG when i get back.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
April 24 2012 23:29 GMT
#1216
Post above directed toward Mementoss
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
April 24 2012 23:33 GMT
#1217
On April 25 2012 08:03 MidnightGladius wrote:
Okay, next time I'll know not to try reading the thread when exhausted.

##Unvote: ghost_403

layabout, I'm never going to live that line expressing regret about VE down, am I? Next time, I'll be sure to just repeat everyone else saying that VE was bad, and that would be better, right?

If you are going to act like that statement after VE's flip is the reason for my case and try to downplay it instead of explaining your scummy behaviour then it's clear to me that you cannot explain your scummy behaviour and you are trying to discredit my case instead.

Goodnight.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
April 24 2012 23:34 GMT
#1218
Where did paqman go? (in class from phone)
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
PaqMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1475 Posts
April 24 2012 23:40 GMT
#1219
My opinion is solid and I still stand by my stance on lynching Risen. However, based on what he starts posting now until toward the end of D2 I'm willing to change that.

I've never played a game with Risen, so I'm expecting him to do more than just play his "town meta" (as most of you guys say this is why you think he's town). He went from passive to a violent outburst as soon as the spotlight was aimed at him, and he completely disregarded my case against him save for a few insults.

First: so everyone can read Gonzaw's initial case and Risen's defense.
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 06:45 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 01:16 gonzaw wrote:
Risen:

I'd like to lynch Risen and I'll tell you why

On April 22 2012 02:22 Risen wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:42 layabout wrote:
How are you feeling VE?

Any thoughts on marvellosity paqman or mattchew?


we need Risen to rise and get posting
we need ghost 403 to de-cloak
we need St.Daniel to grace us with his presence
we need Janaan to get out of bed
we need slOosh to stop fapping to Beethoven*
we need BroodkingEXE to execute som scum for us
we need Bill Murray to get his head in the game
we need Zephirrd to tell you guys to stop posting shit
we need layabout to stop with the puns lead us to victory



Yeah I'm sorry. Just woke up. I'll get posting. Posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy. I'd rather we put pressure on someone who isn't posting. I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting. From the last page I do have a problem with mementoss' idea. It seems solid but as you said on this page, all vigs would have to get on board. I don't like directing blues in the first place (i realize this game has special stuff going on, though, so I don't think forwarding the idea is scummy. I just don't think we should do it). Another problem with your plan mt is your directing of jailkeepers. By directing jk away from targets and the vigis you give scum a potential three kill night. They can kill the vig, another person, and then if the vigi target is town they get to laugh at us.

To sum, don't direct blues. I think there's been enough discussion about it and with no clearly best plan there's no way to get everyone behind one plan.


This post is wishy washy as hell.

First he starts by being unnecessary apologetic when laya called him out.
He posts a very wishy washy statement like "from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy". Really? That's not the town Risen I know of.

The town Risen I know of would instantly find people scummy and try to create discussion. Town Risen wouldn't stay neutral and spout wishy washy shit like "I'm not sure who's scummy".

Then he keeps trying to appear more "innocent" and neutral by saying things like "I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting".

Then the rest of the post is fluff about Mementos' plan. He doesn't seem to have a solid stance on the matter (says things like "I don't like directing blues, though I realize this game has special stuff going on") yet he just keeps talking about it.

Also, please note the tone of his post. It seems neutral, but most of all it's not aggressive at all. It seems submisive. Layabout called him out and he seems afraid and posts only because he was called out.

Also take notice of the bolded "Posting lots is pro-town" bit, I'll use it later.

On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I don't get your reasoning mt or anyone else's voting for marvel. He's posting and it's very early day 1. There isn't that much to go off of so I don't think he's scummy. I hate lurkers, they always fuck us and it isn't pro-town at all. I'd rather not lynch someone who's here day 1. Posting is pro-town and I don't think we should be scaring people away from posting day 1 bc it just gives people an excuse to be worthless


He just barely comments on the marvel issue, but doesn't really take any stances. He keeps up with his "I still don't think anybody is scummy" excuse to avoid taking stances on people.
He also doesn't comment on other things happening in the thread, like VE's "case" on me, or my case against VE, or the Paqman/Mattchew issue, nothing.

Again, note the bolded bit too.

On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us?


I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me.

##vote layabout

I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too.


Now here's the kicker.

Here he goes against layabout and votes him, and his reason is "I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me"...

...really?

I already said how this seems like Toad's play from LI. He ignores current discussion, he avoids taking a stance on the current events, and instead decides to FoS someone completely irrelevant for shitty reasons, and keeps his vote there.
This vote only disrupts town because he fails to justify it and derails current discussions.
Not only that, but it makes it so he can "justify" his vote and just leave it there, so he can fake trying to contribute.

But there's another important thing to take into account:
Notice how aggressive he's become against layabout.

Why did the tone of his post and his behaviour change so much?
In that first post he sounded afraid. Laya called him out and he sounded submissive against him, he was the opposite of aggressive.
He posted trying to please laya, had a very neutral tone, was wishy-washy and didn't take any stances.

Yet now that layabout points out Risen being suspicious, he flips and goes all crazy against him?
Really?
I don't buy that change of behaviour, it's inconsisent, it's way too sudden and doesn't make sense with the way he was posting before.


Hey, remember that bolded bits I was mentioning before? Here:
Posting lots is pro-town


He says that posting a lot is pro-town, yet he's not following his own advice and is barely posting!

So really people, Risen is scum because:
  • He barely posts at all even though he said posting a lot is pro-town and people should be encouraged to do it
  • Starts off wishy washy as hell, sounds very submissive and afraid of being called out, ignores current discussions and doesn't take stances on them, posts uninteresting fluff about directing blues while not even taking a solid stance on the matter
  • Makes a very flimsy vote on layabout and doesn't justify it at all
  • Has a very sudden change of behaviour. He becomes aggressive very quickly while his previous behaviour was the opposite of that
  • He doesn't play like when he does as town at all. As town he posts without fear or hesitation, he actively calls people out and tries whatever he can to get some discussion going. As town he posts more and pushes people more, as town he doesn't park a vote on someone irrelevant for irrelevant reasons and remains hidden for the rest of the day


So people, let's lynch Risen

##Unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Risen



What kind of stupid shit is this? By request of jubjub Pac I'll respond. Wishy washy? What the hell do you want from me not even a day into the game? How the hell could ANYONE have true feelings of someone being scum that early on. You can have policies that guide you, such as kill every idiot you see, like anyone on VE or lynch lurkers like BM, but you can't possibly have feelings of people being scummy that early on. Only people who are atrocious at this game would take that point seriously. Oh look, we have pac taking it seriously. I'm so shocked.

You say this posting looks like Toad from LI? Awesome. I'm not Toad. Also, where do you get me being SUBMISSIVE to layabout. The guy was playing like an idiot and I called him out on it. If you count me apologizing for cursing as being "submissive" then you need to get your head checked. How can you go from me voting layabout to trying to get approval from him. Stupidity at it's finest. BUT Pac wants me to address this piece of shit case so lets keep going.

On to your little bullets.
1) I've been busy as all hell, but I've been trying to come in and read and post instead of lurk. Screw it, I should have just lurked. You're right, posting in the thread is anti-town. My bad, I was wrong. I'll stop posting.
2) Not taking a solid stance? I SAID DONT DIRECT BLUES. IT IS BAD. How much more solid does it get? What do I have to do to make it more solid?
3) A flimsy vote on layabout? You right... because votes before a day has passed in the game are going to be super solid. Oh wait. They're not. Only an idiot or scum would try and say something like this. I'm leaning idiot because at least your vote isn't with the derps on VE.
4) I like how you call me passive and then point number 4 is saying I'm being too aggressive. This case is air tight guys, let's all get on the Risen choo choo. Right Janaan?
5) People don't have lives my b I always forget about that. I wasn't supposed to head back to Vegas until next weekend and when I signed up for this game it didn't matter anyways. It took two years to start, though, and I've only been able to read the thread from my phone. Now I'm able to type on a keyboard and tear this horrid case to shreds.

I'll sum this case for all you dolts voting on me. Risen isn't playing like his town play usually is (but lets not link any of Risen's filters and quote anything from previous games, lets just SAY that's how it is and pray people don't actually check his filters.)

Wow. Slam dunk case Paq, glad I took the time to respond to it. Why are you on me again?

I don't have much time, I'm driving back to Flagstaff very shortly. I'm going to cut all this nonsense short and post cases against every person on VE. They're all idiots and/or scum who should be killed.



My case against him:

On April 23 2012 06:53 PaqMan wrote:
Risen is scum.

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 21 2012 14:14 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 14:05 gonzaw wrote:
I'm sure VE will point this out and create more shitstorm, so just in case I'll address this:

No, I didn't mean "our plan" as in "the plan my scumbuddies and me hatched". I meant "the plan town would have imposed once people agreed with me".


Now, I dunno why but I think I'm posting WAY too much >_>
I'll try to tone it down a little bit


He already pointed it out in his post voting for you. You're a little late. Posting from my phone I'll be home in a couple hours but it's a little late. Just read everything on my phone, though.


Alright, cool, nothing really wrong with it. No real content and nothing that circulates discussion, but hey it's his first post. I'll give that to him.
One thing to note is the bolded though.




On April 22 2012 02:22 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 01:42 layabout wrote:
How are you feeling VE?

Any thoughts on marvellosity paqman or mattchew?


we need Risen to rise and get posting
we need ghost 403 to de-cloak
we need St.Daniel to grace us with his presence
we need Janaan to get out of bed
we need slOosh to stop fapping to Beethoven*
we need BroodkingEXE to execute som scum for us
we need Bill Murray to get his head in the game
we need Zephirrd to tell you guys to stop posting shit
we need layabout to stop with the puns lead us to victory



Yeah I'm sorry. Just woke up. I'll get posting. Posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy. I'd rather we put pressure on someone who isn't posting. I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting. From the last page I do have a problem with mementoss' idea. It seems solid but as you said on this page, all vigs would have to get on board. I don't like directing blues in the first place (i realize this game has special stuff going on, though, so I don't think forwarding the idea is scummy. I just don't think we should do it). Another problem with your plan mt is your directing of jailkeepers. By directing jk away from targets and the vigis you give scum a potential three kill night. They can kill the vig, another person, and then if the vigi target is town they get to laugh at us.

To sum, don't direct blues. I think there's been enough discussion about it and with no clearly best plan there's no way to get everyone behind one plan.


#1 - He posts this roughly 30 minutes after layabout's post. He coincidentally woke up when he name gets mentioned. I'll give him benefit of the doubt on this one

#2 -
posting lots is pro-town.
But, you don't even have a full page of posts in your filter, even though D1 is a few hours from ending.

#3 -
posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy.

So what does that mean? Well he's doing what I was previously accusing Mattchew of, not taking a definite side. He's not making a solid opinion on anything.

The rest of his post is fluffy. He gives his input on MT's plan and that's it. He doesn't establish any solid ground on any of the issues at hand. His only mention of scum is that "nobody looks scummy".



On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I don't get your reasoning mt or anyone else's voting for marvel. He's posting and it's very early day 1. There isn't that much to go off of so I don't think he's scummy.

This part's important as he does end up voting marv with a very stupid reason.

On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I hatelurkers, they always fuck us and it isn't pro-town at all. I'd rather not lynch someone who's here day 1.

And who does Risen end up voting for? Marv!
Risen is full of shit. His only reason for voting marv is because marv voted for VE. But what about Bill Murray? Dude's lurking the entire D1 and votes for VE. Based on just this quote you would think that Risen votes BM but he jumps right in the wagon that BJ made and votes marv.

On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
Posting is pro-town and I don't think we should be scaring people away from posting day 1 bc it just gives people an excuse to be worthless

dafuq are you talking about?



His next post is basically useless but the next 3 posts are is gold.
On April 22 2012 02:58 Risen wrote:
Oh, alright. I had read the vigi shot being refunded, but didn't apply that to them not shooting if they were killed.

And wtf? Where the fuck do you get me targeting ANYONE right now? Do you see me voting any "lurkers"? Did I point any out? No. I didn't. Why didn't I? Because I know how early it is in the game. Take your useless shit somewhere else layabout.


What's with the sudden freak out? All layabout does is make a little comment on you and you blow up.

On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us?


I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me.

##vote layabout

I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too.


He immediately votes layabout all because of this little comment:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us?


Also take note of the bold. That's his only mention of BJ&BH.



The next couple of posts are useless. So far he still hasn't contributed jack to Town and his posts are weak.
UNTIL
we get to this one:
On April 22 2012 03:39 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 03:31 slOosh wrote:
Hey layabout I think Risen is acting really off. Agree / disagree?


Oh hey look, easy wagon member #1


Why is he so defensive all of a sudden? He definitely is acting off. He's acting like he's guilty of something. He immediately proclaims himself as an easy wagon. But look where he ends up putting his most recent vote!

On April 22 2012 03:56 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 03:44 slOosh wrote:
On April 22 2012 03:39 Risen wrote:
On April 22 2012 03:31 slOosh wrote:
Hey layabout I think Risen is acting really off. Agree / disagree?


Oh hey look, easy wagon member #1

So ... you calling me scum or what?


No. Why even bring that up? I'd call you scum if I thought you were scum. Scum aren't the only ones who jump on a stupid wagon. Lazy townies who don't feel like posting or playing jump on them and screw town too.


Again he's acting way too overly-defensive. Chill out bro.



On April 23 2012 04:27 Risen wrote:
Hey folks. I'm not actually voting layabout. Just woke up, was out drinking last night. I'm going to be going through everyone's filters and I'll make a giant post containing my analysis.


It has been two hours since and he still hasn't made his giant post. So far he's keeping up with the thread so I highly doubt he's even working on one.

On April 23 2012 04:27 Risen wrote:
Let me catch up on the thread, though. Why are there two votes on me? I assumed when layabout wasn't able to start the choo choo that train died.


He's "surprised" he has votes on him and is still convinced that layabout's little comment was an attempt to start a wagon on him. It's been two hours since he woke up and that's plenty of time to read through the thread. Despite this, he still has not said a single thing on Gonzaw's case against him. He hasn't brought it up nor has he made a single mention of it.
As of that^^ post he still has not given any solid opinions on who is scummy and who's not.



Spoilered because I don't want to clutter my case >.>

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.


Okay, finally have an opinion. johnnyboy is your biggest scumread.

On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.

Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.

I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.

##vote marvellosity


He shits up the rest of this post with useless crap.
But wait!!
Despite johnnyboy having Risen's biggest scumread, Risen votes for marv?!?!?! Whyyyy???
Here's why:
On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.
##vote marvellosity

He's voting marv because marv placed his vote on VE.
I call complete bullshit on Risen. He put his vote on marv because marv is easy wagon #1.
Sound familiar?



We got you cornered mofo. If Town has enough sense to realize this then you're getting lynched today.


And his defence?:

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 07:09 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 06:53 PaqMan wrote:
Risen is scum.

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 21 2012 14:14 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 14:05 gonzaw wrote:
I'm sure VE will point this out and create more shitstorm, so just in case I'll address this:

No, I didn't mean "our plan" as in "the plan my scumbuddies and me hatched". I meant "the plan town would have imposed once people agreed with me".


Now, I dunno why but I think I'm posting WAY too much >_>
I'll try to tone it down a little bit


He already pointed it out in his post voting for you. You're a little late. Posting from my phone I'll be home in a couple hours but it's a little late. Just read everything on my phone, though.


Alright, cool, nothing really wrong with it. No real content and nothing that circulates discussion, but hey it's his first post. I'll give that to him.
One thing to note is the bolded though.




On April 22 2012 02:22 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 01:42 layabout wrote:
How are you feeling VE?

Any thoughts on marvellosity paqman or mattchew?


we need Risen to rise and get posting
we need ghost 403 to de-cloak
we need St.Daniel to grace us with his presence
we need Janaan to get out of bed
we need slOosh to stop fapping to Beethoven*
we need BroodkingEXE to execute som scum for us
we need Bill Murray to get his head in the game
we need Zephirrd to tell you guys to stop posting shit
we need layabout to stop with the puns lead us to victory



Yeah I'm sorry. Just woke up. I'll get posting. Posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy. I'd rather we put pressure on someone who isn't posting. I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting. From the last page I do have a problem with mementoss' idea. It seems solid but as you said on this page, all vigs would have to get on board. I don't like directing blues in the first place (i realize this game has special stuff going on, though, so I don't think forwarding the idea is scummy. I just don't think we should do it). Another problem with your plan mt is your directing of jailkeepers. By directing jk away from targets and the vigis you give scum a potential three kill night. They can kill the vig, another person, and then if the vigi target is town they get to laugh at us.

To sum, don't direct blues. I think there's been enough discussion about it and with no clearly best plan there's no way to get everyone behind one plan.


#1 - He posts this roughly 30 minutes after layabout's post. He coincidentally woke up when he name gets mentioned. I'll give him benefit of the doubt on this one

#2 -
posting lots is pro-town.
But, you don't even have a full page of posts in your filter, even though D1 is a few hours from ending.

#3 -
posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy.

So what does that mean? Well he's doing what I was previously accusing Mattchew of, not taking a definite side. He's not making a solid opinion on anything.

The rest of his post is fluffy. He gives his input on MT's plan and that's it. He doesn't establish any solid ground on any of the issues at hand. His only mention of scum is that "nobody looks scummy".



On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I don't get your reasoning mt or anyone else's voting for marvel. He's posting and it's very early day 1. There isn't that much to go off of so I don't think he's scummy.

This part's important as he does end up voting marv with a very stupid reason.

On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I hatelurkers, they always fuck us and it isn't pro-town at all. I'd rather not lynch someone who's here day 1.

And who does Risen end up voting for? Marv!
Risen is full of shit. His only reason for voting marv is because marv voted for VE. But what about Bill Murray? Dude's lurking the entire D1 and votes for VE. Based on just this quote you would think that Risen votes BM but he jumps right in the wagon that BJ made and votes marv.

On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
Posting is pro-town and I don't think we should be scaring people away from posting day 1 bc it just gives people an excuse to be worthless

dafuq are you talking about?



His next post is basically useless but the next 3 posts are is gold.
On April 22 2012 02:58 Risen wrote:
Oh, alright. I had read the vigi shot being refunded, but didn't apply that to them not shooting if they were killed.

And wtf? Where the fuck do you get me targeting ANYONE right now? Do you see me voting any "lurkers"? Did I point any out? No. I didn't. Why didn't I? Because I know how early it is in the game. Take your useless shit somewhere else layabout.


What's with the sudden freak out? All layabout does is make a little comment on you and you blow up.

On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us?


I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me.

##vote layabout

I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too.


He immediately votes layabout all because of this little comment:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us?


Also take note of the bold. That's his only mention of BJ&BH.



The next couple of posts are useless. So far he still hasn't contributed jack to Town and his posts are weak.
UNTIL
we get to this one:
On April 22 2012 03:39 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 03:31 slOosh wrote:
Hey layabout I think Risen is acting really off. Agree / disagree?


Oh hey look, easy wagon member #1


Why is he so defensive all of a sudden? He definitely is acting off. He's acting like he's guilty of something. He immediately proclaims himself as an easy wagon. But look where he ends up putting his most recent vote!

On April 22 2012 03:56 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 03:44 slOosh wrote:
On April 22 2012 03:39 Risen wrote:
On April 22 2012 03:31 slOosh wrote:
Hey layabout I think Risen is acting really off. Agree / disagree?


Oh hey look, easy wagon member #1

So ... you calling me scum or what?


No. Why even bring that up? I'd call you scum if I thought you were scum. Scum aren't the only ones who jump on a stupid wagon. Lazy townies who don't feel like posting or playing jump on them and screw town too.


Again he's acting way too overly-defensive. Chill out bro.



On April 23 2012 04:27 Risen wrote:
Hey folks. I'm not actually voting layabout. Just woke up, was out drinking last night. I'm going to be going through everyone's filters and I'll make a giant post containing my analysis.


It has been two hours since and he still hasn't made his giant post. So far he's keeping up with the thread so I highly doubt he's even working on one.

On April 23 2012 04:27 Risen wrote:
Let me catch up on the thread, though. Why are there two votes on me? I assumed when layabout wasn't able to start the choo choo that train died.


He's "surprised" he has votes on him and is still convinced that layabout's little comment was an attempt to start a wagon on him. It's been two hours since he woke up and that's plenty of time to read through the thread. Despite this, he still has not said a single thing on Gonzaw's case against him. He hasn't brought it up nor has he made a single mention of it.
As of that^^ post he still has not given any solid opinions on who is scummy and who's not.



Spoilered because I don't want to clutter my case >.>

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.


Okay, finally have an opinion. johnnyboy is your biggest scumread.

On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.

Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.

I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.

##vote marvellosity


He shits up the rest of this post with useless crap.
But wait!!
Despite johnnyboy having Risen's biggest scumread, Risen votes for marv?!?!?! Whyyyy???
Here's why:
On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.
##vote marvellosity

He's voting marv because marv placed his vote on VE.
I call complete bullshit on Risen. He put his vote on marv because marv is easy wagon #1.
Sound familiar?



We got you cornered mofo. If Town has enough sense to realize this then you're getting lynched today.


No you twat. I'm not voting johnnywup because I'm not an idiot who thinks we can organize idiot townies like you onto him with so little time left. I'm forced to pick from a small pool of people who we can get votes on.

I'm very intense, god... Don't know why I even came back to this. I'm just getting heated again and I'm going to get banned.


+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 07:07 PaqMan wrote:
Risen your defense is full of shit and fails to explain your:
  • wishy-washyness,
  • overreacting, overly-defensive attitude,
  • sudden jump on the marv wagon, even though johnny is your biggest scumread


He is scum. Take note of the actions he's made so far and read through his entire filter, and you'll see how scummy this guy is.


No one is going to pay attention to you. You're an idiot. WHAT WAGON DID I JUMP ON. I never even placed my vote on marv. Go look at the voting thread. derpderpderp, I'm hurrdurrPaq, I don't actually read anything, I just jump on Gonzaw's case, say I'm going to be away, but actually never leave when Risen comes to defend himself.


+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 07:24 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 07:20 PaqMan wrote:
On April 23 2012 07:16 BlazingJitsu wrote:
On April 23 2012 07:14 Risen wrote:
On April 23 2012 07:13 ghost_403 wrote:
On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.

I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.

Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.

I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.

##vote marvellosity


On April 23 2012 07:10 Risen wrote:
On April 23 2012 07:07 PaqMan wrote:
Risen your defense is full of shit and fails to explain your:
  • wishy-washyness,
  • overreacting, overly-defensive attitude,
  • sudden jump on the marv wagon, even though johnny is your biggest scumread


He is scum. Take note of the actions he's made so far and read through his entire filter, and you'll see how scummy this guy is.


No one is going to pay attention to you. You're an idiot. WHAT WAGON DID I JUMP ON. I never even placed my vote on marv. Go look at the voting thread. derpderpderp, I'm hurrdurrPaq, I don't actually read anything, I just jump on Gonzaw's case, say I'm going to be away, but actually never leave when Risen comes to defend himself.



Now go quote me int he voting thread. Oh wait, you can't, because I never actually voted for him. Durr, le hurr, hur hurr


Risen I would like to thank you: at least you're not derping up the thread like at least 6 players are in this game. The fact that some of these players MUST be town and not scum is just apalling.


oh hai your finally back from lunch. I assume you're going to go back to shitting up the thread with your half-assed claims?


No one is this stupid. No matter who is lynched today I'm voting you. If you're town I hope you get your shit together next game. No one as dumb as you should even be allowed into TL Mafia. If I had to make a list of people I hate most, it would start with lurkers, and then right under it would be fools like you who tunnel someone and are too blind to anything else going on in the thread. One of you and gonzaw is scum. I think it's probably gonzaw because I don't think a scums teammates would let their team idiot jump on a case so hard when it's built of paper.



Insults aside, where's his defence? owait there is none.



TL;DR - My case against Risen:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 06:53 PaqMan wrote:
Risen is scum.

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 21 2012 14:14 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 14:05 gonzaw wrote:
I'm sure VE will point this out and create more shitstorm, so just in case I'll address this:

No, I didn't mean "our plan" as in "the plan my scumbuddies and me hatched". I meant "the plan town would have imposed once people agreed with me".


Now, I dunno why but I think I'm posting WAY too much >_>
I'll try to tone it down a little bit


He already pointed it out in his post voting for you. You're a little late. Posting from my phone I'll be home in a couple hours but it's a little late. Just read everything on my phone, though.


Alright, cool, nothing really wrong with it. No real content and nothing that circulates discussion, but hey it's his first post. I'll give that to him.
One thing to note is the bolded though.




On April 22 2012 02:22 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 01:42 layabout wrote:
How are you feeling VE?

Any thoughts on marvellosity paqman or mattchew?


we need Risen to rise and get posting
we need ghost 403 to de-cloak
we need St.Daniel to grace us with his presence
we need Janaan to get out of bed
we need slOosh to stop fapping to Beethoven*
we need BroodkingEXE to execute som scum for us
we need Bill Murray to get his head in the game
we need Zephirrd to tell you guys to stop posting shit
we need layabout to stop with the puns lead us to victory



Yeah I'm sorry. Just woke up. I'll get posting. Posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy. I'd rather we put pressure on someone who isn't posting. I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting. From the last page I do have a problem with mementoss' idea. It seems solid but as you said on this page, all vigs would have to get on board. I don't like directing blues in the first place (i realize this game has special stuff going on, though, so I don't think forwarding the idea is scummy. I just don't think we should do it). Another problem with your plan mt is your directing of jailkeepers. By directing jk away from targets and the vigis you give scum a potential three kill night. They can kill the vig, another person, and then if the vigi target is town they get to laugh at us.

To sum, don't direct blues. I think there's been enough discussion about it and with no clearly best plan there's no way to get everyone behind one plan.


#1 - He posts this roughly 30 minutes after layabout's post. He coincidentally woke up when he name gets mentioned. I'll give him benefit of the doubt on this one

#2 -
posting lots is pro-town.
But, you don't even have a full page of posts in your filter, even though D1 is a few hours from ending.

#3 -
posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy.

So what does that mean? Well he's doing what I was previously accusing Mattchew of, not taking a definite side. He's not making a solid opinion on anything.

The rest of his post is fluffy. He gives his input on MT's plan and that's it. He doesn't establish any solid ground on any of the issues at hand. His only mention of scum is that "nobody looks scummy".



On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I don't get your reasoning mt or anyone else's voting for marvel. He's posting and it's very early day 1. There isn't that much to go off of so I don't think he's scummy.

This part's important as he does end up voting marv with a very stupid reason.

On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I hatelurkers, they always fuck us and it isn't pro-town at all. I'd rather not lynch someone who's here day 1.

And who does Risen end up voting for? Marv!
Risen is full of shit. His only reason for voting marv is because marv voted for VE. But what about Bill Murray? Dude's lurking the entire D1 and votes for VE. Based on just this quote you would think that Risen votes BM but he jumps right in the wagon that BJ made and votes marv.

On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
Posting is pro-town and I don't think we should be scaring people away from posting day 1 bc it just gives people an excuse to be worthless

dafuq are you talking about?



His next post is basically useless but the next 3 posts are is gold.
On April 22 2012 02:58 Risen wrote:
Oh, alright. I had read the vigi shot being refunded, but didn't apply that to them not shooting if they were killed.

And wtf? Where the fuck do you get me targeting ANYONE right now? Do you see me voting any "lurkers"? Did I point any out? No. I didn't. Why didn't I? Because I know how early it is in the game. Take your useless shit somewhere else layabout.


What's with the sudden freak out? All layabout does is make a little comment on you and you blow up.

On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us?


I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me.

##vote layabout

I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too.


He immediately votes layabout all because of this little comment:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us?


Also take note of the bold. That's his only mention of BJ&BH.



The next couple of posts are useless. So far he still hasn't contributed jack to Town and his posts are weak.
UNTIL
we get to this one:
On April 22 2012 03:39 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 03:31 slOosh wrote:
Hey layabout I think Risen is acting really off. Agree / disagree?


Oh hey look, easy wagon member #1


Why is he so defensive all of a sudden? He definitely is acting off. He's acting like he's guilty of something. He immediately proclaims himself as an easy wagon. But look where he ends up putting his most recent vote!

On April 22 2012 03:56 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 03:44 slOosh wrote:
On April 22 2012 03:39 Risen wrote:
On April 22 2012 03:31 slOosh wrote:
Hey layabout I think Risen is acting really off. Agree / disagree?


Oh hey look, easy wagon member #1

So ... you calling me scum or what?


No. Why even bring that up? I'd call you scum if I thought you were scum. Scum aren't the only ones who jump on a stupid wagon. Lazy townies who don't feel like posting or playing jump on them and screw town too.


Again he's acting way too overly-defensive. Chill out bro.



On April 23 2012 04:27 Risen wrote:
Hey folks. I'm not actually voting layabout. Just woke up, was out drinking last night. I'm going to be going through everyone's filters and I'll make a giant post containing my analysis.


It has been two hours since and he still hasn't made his giant post. So far he's keeping up with the thread so I highly doubt he's even working on one.

On April 23 2012 04:27 Risen wrote:
Let me catch up on the thread, though. Why are there two votes on me? I assumed when layabout wasn't able to start the choo choo that train died.


He's "surprised" he has votes on him and is still convinced that layabout's little comment was an attempt to start a wagon on him. It's been two hours since he woke up and that's plenty of time to read through the thread. Despite this, he still has not said a single thing on Gonzaw's case against him. He hasn't brought it up nor has he made a single mention of it.
As of that^^ post he still has not given any solid opinions on who is scummy and who's not.



Spoilered because I don't want to clutter my case >.>

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.


Okay, finally have an opinion. johnnyboy is your biggest scumread.

On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.

Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.

I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.

##vote marvellosity


He shits up the rest of this post with useless crap.
But wait!!
Despite johnnyboy having Risen's biggest scumread, Risen votes for marv?!?!?! Whyyyy???
Here's why:
On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.
##vote marvellosity

He's voting marv because marv placed his vote on VE.
I call complete bullshit on Risen. He put his vote on marv because marv is easy wagon #1.
Sound familiar?



We got you cornered mofo. If Town has enough sense to realize this then you're getting lynched today.



Him defending himself:
Rage rage insult rage insult insult rage.

Also a very interesting quote:
On April 23 2012 07:25 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: Then again, maybe you are scum. NO ONE can be that certain of someone's alignment day 1. Only scum could know with the certainty you claim, Paq.


Reading through your posts, how were you sooo certain that VE's claim was true?
You were defending him as if your life depended on it.
You didn't question or have doubt about his claim at all.
It didn't even strike you that he claimed a role no one could confirm.

On April 23 2012 05:37 Risen wrote:
It came up in post game chat in LI, and I've never considered it b/c information is information, but why would a no-lynch be bad in this game. Mafia KP isn't determined by the number of people they have alive, it's determined by who their goons are. Aren't accurate lynches therefor that much more necessary? Or is the information gained from a lynch that valuable even in a setup like this.

TL;DR: Get the hell off VE and on to anyone else. I'll no lynch over lynching VE 100%





I'm reading through Sentinel's filter now. After I check out his and Zepphird I'll post any thoughts I have.
t(ツ)t
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
April 24 2012 23:50 GMT
#1220
Crazy de lurk timing wtf
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
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