EPTDeath Factory Mafia 2
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
On March 31 2012 05:52 MrZentor wrote: I'd prefer for the game to start as soon as possible. It would allow me to be much more active for a longer period of time. I agree. Hope to wake up with a role pm  | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
I also have a policy for day 1: we have the opportunity of getting rid of all the lurkers in one fell swoop. The queue allows for 8 people to be lynched. I hope we don't need that many lynches, but being able to kill all our lurkers in d1 is pretty cool. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
[QUOTE]On April 01 2012 15:34 Acrofales wrote: Wow, and I thought my previous mafia game derailed into madness fast. I have read through the last game and the voting didn't seem to work at all, so I don't know why anybody wants to try it. Tobon, are you scum?/QUOTE] Nope. And as you'll notice if you reread, I mentioned that the voting went nowhere. I wasn't suggesting it as a solution, but as a failed previous experience to start off discussion. Many of us are agreed that PoPs should be coordinated and not wasted. That's obvious and also quite vague. So how do you think we ought to go about concretely accomplishing it?[/QUOTE] I have no clue how to do that. The system seems designed to resist order and prior coordination. I think we should discuss who we want to kill in text and then work towards it. Same as with votes. Only difference is that you don't have a vote to make your case more forceful. If everybody is active and posting, however, that shouldn't be a problem. Don't need a vote trail, just vocal people. Hence, once again, my suggestion to lynch all lurkers off the bat. I have to go out today, but will be back this evening with more. Also, to grab items and prevent people from wasting pops, we should announce all pop actions 30 seconds before we use them. That's all the coordination I can see working. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
MrZentor: I think you're basically right. Pushing (or actually pulling) Palmar (or anyone for that matter) is atm a high risk, low reward situation and we'd be stupid to do it. Atm the only reason to push someone right to the edge is because we want to lynch him. Therefore, anybody proposing to get the item is scum. Cascade, Nemesis, Palmar, Layabout and Mr.Wiggles: why are you pushing a scum agenda? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
Additionally, he's wrong, because he didn't jump over Snarfs. He didn't even jump over VE. Here's starting positions: + Show Spoiler [starting positions] + 24.[Item] [___________] 23.[___________] [___________] 22.[___________] [___________] 21.[___________] [___________] 20.[___________] [___________] 19.[___________] [___________] 18.[Palmar] [___________] 17.[Mr.Wiggles] [___________] 16.[cascades] [Nemesis] 15. [Dirkzor] [Mr.Zentor] 14.[VisceraEyes][___________] 13.[Snarfs] [Bill Murray] 12.[wherebugsgo][prplhz] 11. [Acrofales][___________] 10.[Mattchew] [Tobon] 9. [layabout] [___________] 8. [Bluelightz][Sbrubbles] 7. [risk.nuke][syllogism] 6. [Cephiro][___________] 5. [___________][___________] 4. [___________][___________] 3. [___________] [___________] 2. [___________] [___________] 1. [___________] [___________] And after he claimed to have done his ability:+ Show Spoiler [after] + 24.[Item] [___________] 23.[___________] [___________] 22.[___________] [___________] 21.[___________] [___________] 20.[___________] [___________] 19.[___________] [___________] 18.[Palmar] [___________] 17.[Mr.Wiggles] [___________] 16.[cascades] [Nemesis] 15. [Dirkzor] [Mr.Zentor] 14.[VisceraEyes] [Bill Murray] 13.[Snarfs][___________] 12.[wherebugsgo][prplhz] 11. [Acrofales][___________] 10.[Mattchew] [Tobon] 9. [layabout] [___________] 8. [Bluelightz][Sbrubbles] 7. [risk.nuke][syllogism] 6. [Cephiro][___________] 5. [___________][___________] 4. [___________][___________] 3. [___________] [___________] 2. [___________] [___________] 1. [___________] [___________] He has moved 1 spot (being first or second in a queue slot makes no difference) and not jumped over anybody. So his claim is bullshit. He is either lying or completely misunderstanding his ability. In either case, I am in favour of teaching people to stop doing useless roleclaims on D1 and am therefore in favour of lynching BillMurray together with all the lurkers. For those twits who think a vote system will help, I will post: ##vote BillMurray | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
On April 02 2012 03:16 Mattchew wrote: Don't forget about me... i would like to see palmar get the item. if someone pushes him off (and he flips town) they sky rocket themselves to the top of my scumlist and should just be killed anyway. My question is why are people so afraid of giving palmar an extra power You're confirmed scum in my book anyway after last game, but sure. Add your name to the list  | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
On April 02 2012 03:27 Mattchew wrote: because a. because if he's town he has a greater chance of using the power well then almost anyone else in the game b. he's already closest which means he will tie up the fewest PoPs c. It will be a great help creating a read on him If he's town, mafia is either going to make sure they have a way of killing him, or they're not going to contribute at all (or as little as possible), thereby keeping all their pops for the actual lynch, increasing the chance of a townie getting lynched. He's closest, but still eats up 6 pulls and 4 pushes to get him in there and out safely (well 5 pulls now that cascade has used his) How is giving someone who is not confirmed anything an item going to help us get a read on him? Here's from the OP: Only the player that landed on that item position will know what item they recieved. So how does this help anybody? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
Here you say: On April 02 2012 01:34 layabout wrote: Getting the item: Going after the item would tie up a lot of the PoP's. Whilst there is a danger to the person being sent to get the item, anybody that pushed them over would likely be killed for doing so and so it would offer a 1:1 trade which would be good for town. If scum happen to have a hidden PoP then we risk losing the item, a townie and the PoP's for no gain. This seemed to me pro-item-getting. In your follow-up you amended that. Fine, take yourself off the list, although I don't much like wishy washy behaviour. | ||
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Acrofales
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On April 02 2012 03:42 Bill Murray wrote: I'd also like to note I jumped TOWARDS the fire why would mafia do that? /wifom I considered latching onto Tobon, but that would have meant it'd check like 5 people, and I didn't want to risk there not being 20% likely scum (1/4 are scum, so 5 would be dumb) 2 seemed pretty safe, and lo and behold, I was right we have 3 clear town in my eyes Okay, it makes more sense now. In my eyes we have still cleared 0 town as I have no reason to believe you at this point. But I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. For those keeping track: ##unvote | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
On April 02 2012 03:55 layabout wrote: Maybe you can explain why you think my behaviour is "wishy washy" and why that is relevant. How is what i have written "pro item getting"? Somebody (bugs?) mentioned that it would be easy for scum to kill the person going after the item. I have written that if they do that they would either face a 1:1 trade or a free kill (if they have a hidden PoP like in Death factory). I also wrote that getting the item woud require a lot of PoP's. Please point out where the pro item getting part is. I read that as in favour of getting the item, because a 1:1 trade is (usually) a town win (because more town than scum). It seemed to have the hidden mafia ability tagged on as an afterthought. But why are you so uptight about it? You seem extremely eager to be taken off my scumlist. I was told last game (repeatedly) that overly defensive behaviour is a scum tell. Are you scum? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
On April 02 2012 04:25 Nemesis wrote: This is retarded. Defensive behaviour is not a scum tell. Just take a look at chaoser in the first Death Factory Mafia. Both town and scum of course don't want to get lynched, so people will get defensive no matter what their role is. Heh, I thought the same as you last game, but I caught enough flak over my defensive response for most of D1 and a DT checked me out. Turned out I was really scum, so there might be something in it after all. I'm willing to give it a go this game. Afaik the psychological reasoning behind it is something like: scum know they're guilty and are thus more insecure when called out on it: they will therefore get overly defensive, whereas townies are more secure in their safety and will be more rational. There's a difference between giving a reasoned response about why an attack is groundless and an emotional defense. I see more of the latter than the former in Layabout's defense here: he seems rather anxious to not be called scum. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
On April 02 2012 05:15 layabout wrote: Seeing as you are basing this off of the last game that you played played i suggest you go back to that game and see what happened on day1. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14041960 Then apologise to me. Then admit that defensive behaviour is not a scum tell. So your defense is a non-sequitur that you're innocent because you were lynched on D1 last game? Huh? How has this got anything to do with the topic at hand? Last game I actually thought town was rather insane for lynching you, but who was I to complain about town lynching one of their own? I used the situation last game to clarify why overly defensive play is a scumtell, no more, no less. Are you trying to play onto my sympathies by referring to your D1 lynch? Why bring it up at all? /confused. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
On April 02 2012 06:00 layabout wrote: You originally called me scummy for saying that we should grab the item. This was false and i pointed that out. You then called me wishy washy and pointed at the post that led you to infer that i wanted us to grab the item. I pointed out that there was nothing in that post to lead you to infer that. I further asked you why you then decided to call me "wishy washy" and to explain how i was being "wishy washy". You then do not explain yourself but instead you call me scummy for being overly defensive. My response to this was to think "man this guy is an idiot". You then make this post in which you explain that you were overly defensive as scum in your last game and try to use that to justify calling me scum. I responded by pointing out that in that same game i was lynched day1. I was hoping that you would realise that since i was lynched by 5/21 players for no good reason and flipped town that i might want to avoid that happening again and that, that might be why i am being defensive. I was also hoping that you would realise that "scumtells" are pretty much complete garbage, and that somebody being defensive is an appalling basis for a scum read. I realise now that i expected to much of you. And now you made sense. See, that's all I really wanted from you. If, instead of making assumptions that everybody else thinks exactly the same way you do, but instead explain what conclusions you're jumping to, we can communicate just fine! | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17990 Posts
On April 02 2012 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote: I might be like...italics/bold on people who have pushed and strikethrough people who have pulled or whatever. Looked at it from that perspective, people who are pulling Palmar to get the item still have a vote to kill at the end of the day (pushes). The only votes we'd be losing are people "pushing" Palmar to get him back to safety. Suddenly I like the idea of giving Palmar power to see what he does with it. Especially since I can still contribute to the lynch. ##pull: Palmar Lol. This plan sounds well thought out: you get Palmar into the death zone... and then just leave him there to rot, because saving him is someone else's job. Glad you thought this through. Anyway, I'm going to bed. See you all tomorrow. | ||
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Acrofales
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