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On April 03 2012 03:32 layabout wrote:
cephiro, why are you opposed to getting things done?
Palmar is too close to the item to back out now.
Since nobody has said they are pushing him because they want him to die, pushing him over the edge would simply be you deciding to act against the towns wishes.
If Palmar were to flip town do you think that we would let you live after pushing him?
Besides the longer we leave Palmar in the incineration zone the longer we do not know whether he will decide to flip or not (if he does have that ability), and the longer we do not know where to push our lynch candidate.
I think we should be lynching Nemesis.
Why kill Wiggles?
you should double post a pull then a push of palmar.
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On April 03 2012 03:32 layabout wrote:
cephiro, why are you opposed to getting things done?
Palmar is too close to the item to back out now.
Since nobody has said they are pushing him because they want him to die, pushing him over the edge would simply be you deciding to act against the towns wishes.
If Palmar were to flip town do you think that we would let you live after pushing him?
Besides the longer we leave Palmar in the incineration zone the longer we do not know whether he will decide to flip or not (if he does have that ability), and the longer we do not know where to push our lynch candidate.
I think we should be lynching Nemesis.
Why kill Wiggles?
I am not opposed to get things done. I do not agree that Palmar is "too close to the item to back out now." It's not like if a few persons start a certain way of action that the rest have to fulfill it, even if they disagree.
I know that if I pushed Palmar over the edge and he were to flip Town that I would look bad, and probably be on the line to get killed myself by other townies. I am however willing to take the responsibility of the worst-case scenario, since at the moment Palmar is one of the persons that I trust the least. If I had to pick 5 scum now, he'd fit in the list. But that is just my opinion.
As for your lynch suggestions, I'm not particularly in favour of either Nemesis or Wiggles, even though they are certainly not the best looking players out there. I'd much rather go for cascades as the "lynch".
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I have no PoP's
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On April 03 2012 03:32 layabout wrote:
cephiro, why are you opposed to getting things done?
Palmar is too close to the item to back out now.
Since nobody has said they are pushing him because they want him to die, pushing him over the edge would simply be you deciding to act against the towns wishes.
If Palmar were to flip town do you think that we would let you live after pushing him?
Besides the longer we leave Palmar in the incineration zone the longer we do not know whether he will decide to flip or not (if he does have that ability), and the longer we do not know where to push our lynch candidate.
I think we should be lynching Nemesis.
Why kill Wiggles?
Agree fully (except that Palmar has already admitted he does have that ability - he just hasn't answered whether it is one-shot or not). I was against giving the item to Palmar at first, because I thought it was a waste of PoPs, but the remaining cost has been steadily going down as people have been moving him closer anyway. I have a completely null read on him - randomly he has a 4 out of 5 chance of being town. So I'm VERY opposed to immediately killing him.
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Nice filter mattchew. It's basically all about you supporting Palmar to get the item. That's so pathetic.
Are you just that much of a bad townie that you have to rely on the chance that Palmar is town, and let him win the game for you? I just can't comprehend this. You haven't even tried doing anything else but talk about Palmar all game long, except for a "lets kill mrzentor" as your first post. And you expect someone to listen to you?
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On April 03 2012 03:13 Bill Murray wrote:
If Palmar uses his ability, I'm pushing Cephiro
just sayin'
If you mean that to be a threat, I'd probably "pull" him if I were you. Just sayin.
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@cephiro
The thing is that Palmar has given us next to nothing to indicate one alignment over the other and killing him because you "do not trust him" is not justifiable.
I am not suggesting we lynch wiggles, but i would like to know why VE and Palmar have suggested that.
what has cascades done to make you want to lynch him?
Nemesis:
Do you really think that this was anything other than a throwaway Pop that does nothing to help town?
+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2012 12:01 Nemesis wrote:Time to actually give out my scumreads so far: Right now I'm looking at Tobon. First thing he does is proposing the secondary voting system. While that by itself is not really scummy even though I disagree with it, his next posts I find are rather bad. Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 23:45 Tobon wrote:On April 01 2012 19:50 Palmar wrote:
just remember to reverse your action because apparently I'm some weird toy that gets pulled when pushed, and pushed while pulled. Nothing is for sure here, but in DFM1, this was the power of the evil Mirror Toy, who could also reverse ends of the entire queue once per game. So (a) be aware that the queue flipping power probably exists, and also (b) I'd be a a bit suspicious of Palmar, although I doubt Ace would make it so easy for us by repeating scum roles. Note how he takes an extremely neutral stance here. He finds Palmar suspicious for his role which is similar to a role in the previous game, but then he adds that it is unlikely that Ace would give scum the same roles. This sounds to me like a scum trying to put suspicion onto someone while avoiding responsibility for it. Show nested quote +On April 02 2012 02:54 Tobon wrote:
So cascade's pull happened. Palmar's role is confirmed, although his alignment is still unknown. Again he stresses how we don't know Palmar's alignment. ##Push: TobonAlso, it's been almost 24 hours and risk.nuke and Sbrubbles have not posted at all. :/ If they don't post anytime soon, I'm all for lynching them too.
Here he completely misrepresents wiggles to achieve _______
+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2012 12:15 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 13:43 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Well, let's get this started. I think we should try our best not to wind each other up this game.
Let's try not to throw our pushes and pulls around too liberally, or at least not anymore than we have to if we can. That means that we don't end up wasting a whole bunch of pushes and pulls that have the net effect of cancelling each other out because people disagree.
Though it's tempting, I don't think we should kill more than a couple people each day, barring anyone basically claiming scum. The last game ended with a whole bunch of people dying on day 2, so based on the probability of queue altering abilities, we should probably pull townie looking people, or people we don't want to die forward a little. Maybe keep them towards the middle of the queue, in case there's some kind of queue flipper.
What do you guys think about the item? Partway through day 1, we can decide on one person who we want to get it, and then who we want to push them and pull them back. The thing is, the people who do that have their voting powers nullified, so we need to decide on who would be best to do it to, and keep it organized, so no one "accidentally" goes off the queue.
I'm going to bed now. Feel free to post a lot while I'm sleeping. Don't toy with me. In here, you suggest taking the item. Show nested quote +On April 02 2012 08:18 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
VE, BM, why do you think Palmar is a good candidate for getting the item? He hasn't done anything to show that he's town this game, and his only post is asking for the item. Considering many of the items can be good for scum as well as town, why do you want to pull him to the item with no reassurance that he's town? Why are you so quick to trust him? While when people were pushing Palmar to take the item, you are against it? Would you rather someone else took the item then? What kind of person are you looking for to take the item then? People just chose palmar because he was the closest to it(so we waste less PoP) and he volunteered. Anyways I'm off for now, nighty night.
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On April 03 2012 03:47 layabout wrote:@cephiro The thing is that Palmar has given us next to nothing to indicate one alignment over the other and killing him because you "do not trust him" is not justifiable. I am not suggesting we lynch wiggles, but i would like to know why VE and Palmar have suggested that. what has cascades done to make you want to lynch him? Nemesis: Do you really think that this was anything other than a throwaway Pop that does nothing to help town? + Show Spoiler +On April 02 2012 12:01 Nemesis wrote:Time to actually give out my scumreads so far: Right now I'm looking at Tobon. First thing he does is proposing the secondary voting system. While that by itself is not really scummy even though I disagree with it, his next posts I find are rather bad. Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 23:45 Tobon wrote:On April 01 2012 19:50 Palmar wrote:
just remember to reverse your action because apparently I'm some weird toy that gets pulled when pushed, and pushed while pulled. Nothing is for sure here, but in DFM1, this was the power of the evil Mirror Toy, who could also reverse ends of the entire queue once per game. So (a) be aware that the queue flipping power probably exists, and also (b) I'd be a a bit suspicious of Palmar, although I doubt Ace would make it so easy for us by repeating scum roles. Note how he takes an extremely neutral stance here. He finds Palmar suspicious for his role which is similar to a role in the previous game, but then he adds that it is unlikely that Ace would give scum the same roles. This sounds to me like a scum trying to put suspicion onto someone while avoiding responsibility for it. Show nested quote +On April 02 2012 02:54 Tobon wrote:
So cascade's pull happened. Palmar's role is confirmed, although his alignment is still unknown. Again he stresses how we don't know Palmar's alignment. ##Push: TobonAlso, it's been almost 24 hours and risk.nuke and Sbrubbles have not posted at all. :/ If they don't post anytime soon, I'm all for lynching them too. Here he completely misrepresents wiggles to achieve _______ + Show Spoiler +On April 02 2012 12:15 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 13:43 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Well, let's get this started. I think we should try our best not to wind each other up this game.
Let's try not to throw our pushes and pulls around too liberally, or at least not anymore than we have to if we can. That means that we don't end up wasting a whole bunch of pushes and pulls that have the net effect of cancelling each other out because people disagree.
Though it's tempting, I don't think we should kill more than a couple people each day, barring anyone basically claiming scum. The last game ended with a whole bunch of people dying on day 2, so based on the probability of queue altering abilities, we should probably pull townie looking people, or people we don't want to die forward a little. Maybe keep them towards the middle of the queue, in case there's some kind of queue flipper.
What do you guys think about the item? Partway through day 1, we can decide on one person who we want to get it, and then who we want to push them and pull them back. The thing is, the people who do that have their voting powers nullified, so we need to decide on who would be best to do it to, and keep it organized, so no one "accidentally" goes off the queue.
I'm going to bed now. Feel free to post a lot while I'm sleeping. Don't toy with me. In here, you suggest taking the item. Show nested quote +On April 02 2012 08:18 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
VE, BM, why do you think Palmar is a good candidate for getting the item? He hasn't done anything to show that he's town this game, and his only post is asking for the item. Considering many of the items can be good for scum as well as town, why do you want to pull him to the item with no reassurance that he's town? Why are you so quick to trust him? While when people were pushing Palmar to take the item, you are against it? Would you rather someone else took the item then? What kind of person are you looking for to take the item then? People just chose palmar because he was the closest to it(so we waste less PoP) and he volunteered. Anyways I'm off for now, nighty night.
Wiggles is a smart guy. Like, super smart. He knows how voting works, and Bugs was insisting that it took 13 pushes to kill Bluelightz at the beginning of his push. A town Wiggles would have corrected Bugs I think, immediately. I only realized it later, but Wiggles is much smarter than me.
Combined with the fact that his first bit of advice from playing in the original DFM was "let's try not to anger each other" when it's appeared (at least to me) that he's been trying to get a rise out of me for most of his later posting.
That's my reasoning for wanting to off Wiggles.
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I'll be around briefly, so I need to know if there is any support for BM or WBG lynch before I make my push. As I've noted earlier, it's highly unlikely that the game has a role that can potentially day dt confirm 5 players. If that red light is another dt role, that probability is further reduced.
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Plus Wiggles auto-rolls scum bro.
<3
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I'm tentatively for a WBG lynch, but can do nothing to support it syllo. So you know...just fyi.
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On April 03 2012 02:46 risk.nuke wrote:
sorry, the red light is not my abillity. Interesting how some people immidiatly choose to distract the discussion from the lynch candidates.
I lied, a bit stressfull day sorry I'm not on top of things. I initially didn't want to claim but I changed my mind.
so yeah confirmed atleast one of sbrubbles, cephiro and syllogism is an evil toy.
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On April 03 2012 03:47 layabout wrote:
@cephiro
The thing is that Palmar has given us next to nothing to indicate one alignment over the other and killing him because you "do not trust him" is not justifiable.
I am not suggesting we lynch wiggles, but i would like to know why VE and Palmar have suggested that.
what has cascades done to make you want to lynch him?
You have a very good reasoning for your point of view. My alignment-read on him is however is much more tipped to the scummy side than town based on his actions thus far. I understand your point why you may feel it's not justifiable, but is granting him an item, possibly even something that could give the scum more KP any more justified? I don't think it's worth it just for the reason of "Based on how he uses the item he claims we can get a better read on him".
As for why I do not like cascades's play so far:
On April 02 2012 02:20 cascades wrote:
So, for example
##pull: palmar
Palmar should move from p19->p20
Simple roleclaim check. Also option of letting palmar get item still available. Personally, I view letting him get item as last resort. Not the best use of PoPs, but better than nothing.
He is one of the first to use a PoP, just to "check his roleclaim". And his action gets Palmar closer to the item, when he says himself that he doesn't want it to happen unless as a last resort, and excuses it by "having the option of doing it if others want to."
This looks like a very clear avoidance of responsibility, just trying to get your PoP wasted quickly and not having to worry about how to use it in a better way later.
On April 02 2012 19:51 cascades wrote:
By my rolecheck, I established that palmar should be mirror toy . I didn't mention it, but by extension, he must have additional powers, else he be just a gimmicky VT. The fact that he hasn't said anything despite being pushed closer and closer indicates he is either afk or has confidence in his power.
He then adds another reasoning that he just "didn't mention", trying to make up for his poor reasoning for the earlier vote. Anyone that started this game should have been smart enough to check up on some of the roles that were used on DF1, and thus he could've fairly surely assumed he has additional powers. However, his PoP does not prove this in any way or another, which just proves my point of his poor comeback claim.
Looks to me that he's just simply posting filler and fluff and doing nothing useful, I'd be glad to see him go.
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Syllo, are you factoring in the capability for a well-manipulated town to be mass-murdered? It seems to me that in circumstances like that, having a higher DT count would help balance against that sort of manipulation.
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I mean, unless someone counterclaims the red light, risk.nuke is mod-confirmed.
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On April 03 2012 03:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Syllo, are you factoring in the capability for a well-manipulated town to be mass-murdered? It seems to me that in circumstances like that, having a higher DT count would help balance against that sort of manipulation.
But mafia only has one standard KP, so "confirming" several players at once on day 1 seems ridiculously powerful
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On April 03 2012 04:01 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 03:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Syllo, are you factoring in the capability for a well-manipulated town to be mass-murdered? It seems to me that in circumstances like that, having a higher DT count would help balance against that sort of manipulation. But mafia only has one standard KP, so "confirming" several players at once on day 1 seems ridiculously powerful
Having one "standard" KP in a game like this itself is ridiculously powerful syllo, pull the other one.
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I suggest for either syllo or sbrubbles to be insta-lynched by pulling them all the way down off the queue. I am a Good Toy, so using one pull on me would not change the light anywhere, and thus effectively waste us one more PoP.
I am willing to use a pull on either sbrubbles or syllo.
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But VE, after WBG made that mistake both you and i corrected it before wiggles even posted. Why would he point it out again?
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On April 03 2012 04:03 layabout wrote:
But VE, after WBG made that mistake both you and i corrected it before wiggles even posted. Why would he point it out again?
What I'm saying is that he would have corrected it before we did...he had posted, and he reads the thread.
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EPT
