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Okay people, sorry for being inactive. I started a game of Civ V Friday night and when I looked up again it was Sunday afternoon 
On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote:
TheToast
You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so.
Explain.
How do you know that he wasn't going to be lynched? 10 minutes is more than enough time for two people to change their votes; I've seen it happen before. I wasn't the only one with my vote on Pandain, RG did as well; I think (and still think) there was more than enough reason to vote him for lynch. I also posted my analysis of Pandain, it's not like I just dropped a vote and left. I would have done it sooner but I had IRL stuff that was in the way. Fact is I didn't have a good read on Misder and I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK. I think Pandain was the better day 1 lynch.
As far as Bluelightz goes; lynching him is tricky business. Based on the game I played with him and the past games of his that I've looked through, he is such a bad town player that he is impossible to get a decent read off of. In NMM 1 I was pretty convinced through most of the game he was mafia just because his posting was so random and contained so much fluff. Turns out he was town, but I honestly think we would have been better off lynching him early on to eliminate him as a suspect and stop him from muddying the waters (which I believe I used as an argument for his lynching in that game). If the votes are there at the end of the day, I'll support his lynch but I seriously think he could flip either way.
Sandro; well it looks like I may have been wrong about the SK thing. If this game had an SK we should have seen two killed last night, though I suppose it's possible that the SK and scum both tried to kill RG? I suppose there's a decent chance of that given the fact that RG basically claimed blue. Fact is though that Sandro's posting has been and continues to be strange and pointless as well as very irregular. While there's a chance he could still be the SK, he's leaning scum in my mind. I don't know what to make about the alleged hit, I would think if he was a vet he wouldn't have been so lurky day 1. I would be interested to see what his response to the arguments against him; if it isn't good I'd say he would make a good Day 2 lynch.
Pandain; still tunneling me, still scummy IMO. I don't know why no one else has called him out about the fake blue claim. He claims watcher, get's half the town bandwagoning against AKCT, then after AKCT's response looks completely townish Pandain backs off and claims he was lying about the blue claim. Is that suppose to make me believe Pandain is town? Why was it even necessary to test AKCT?? There was one vote against him Day1, obviously most of town already decided that AKCT was town or at least leaning-town, why waste a fake claim testing him? Why not test one of the other people who are more scum leaning like sandro or Bluelightz? Pandain seems to be convinced I'm scum, why didn't he test me with the fake claim??? This makes no sense at all. The only way it makes sense is in the context that Pandain is scum. AKCT is a newbie who's been reletively quiet this game and hasn't really been aggressive at all. I think Pandain knew he could count on AKCT looking townish when accused. Then Pandain gets to call off the bandwagon and declairs that AKCT is town (seems like everyone else figured that out already without the rediculous theatrics...).
Sorry, but this seems to me like an attempt to frame himself as town, nothing more. Pandain is a vet player, I can see him trying something like this. IMO this whole fake claim changes nothing, Pandain is just as suspicious as before. I'm putting my vote right back on him for Day 2. If the majority isn't there by the end of day 2, I'll consider moving my vote; but right now he is the best candidate IMO for this and the other stuff I've previously posted.
##Vote: Pandain
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On March 05 2012 11:00 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 10:46 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:
Nope, don't like Adam. You seemed to be setting yourself up for an "i told you so" moment when i flipped town/non-visiting, making you look townier at the end of it - knowledge that you would only have if you knew who really did make the kill, meaning you are either a Blue or Scum. I'm leaning towards the latter.
##Vote Adam4167
I really don't like the gambit @Pandain. If i was a blue role, you would have prolly gone through with the lynch on me, or given scum an easy target. In fact, with the revocation of your claim, the likelihood of you being scum does go up: this gambit could just as easily be a scum one to draw out a potential Blue claim. Not enough to vote you just yet - especially as i had a town read on you beforehand - but i'm certainly gonna be keeping an eye on you. Your not playing like a blue would, and irregardless the scenario of a blue visiting rg is a very unlikely one. Why would a medic protect a vig/townie. Why would a watcher/tracker visit him when he clearly did nothing. In fact the mafia hit was very weird/bad, but thats besides the point. If you had claimed blue, by far the more likely explanation is that your actually scum/sk trying to cover up your kill. And adam never set himself up to gain town cred, I don't know where that's coming from, if you could explain.
I play blue very much like i play mafia, to be fair. To avoid the NK.
It usually gets me lynched instead.
As for Adam, its less him trying to gain towncred, more that he seemed to be avoiding my wagon. If i did flip town, he could be all like "Meh, i didnt like that wagon, see, you should trust me reads" or whatever. Its a subtle tactic that can work if done right.
Added to the fact that he's been rolefishing a little, and his seeming avoidance of other lynches for, perhaps, similar reasons, i see him as a mafia who doesnt want to be seen as overeager for a mislynch, and is overcompensating and doing the opposite instead.
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That's a dumb vote Toast. While Pandain's gambit was hilariously bad, I'd still bet on this being a town-pandain idea rather than scum Pandain.
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On March 06 2012 02:59 Palmar wrote:
That's a dumb vote Toast. While Pandain's gambit was hilariously bad, I'd still bet on this being a town-pandain idea rather than scum Pandain.
If it was a town idea, why focus on AKCT? That's the part that has me suspicious, he's been tunneling me all game long then decides to use a fake claim to test AKCT? Why not use it on Bluelightz if he's suspicious of him? It just doesn't make any sense.
In all honesty, the whole fake claim isn't any kind of proof that Pandain is scum. But when taken into account with all the other scummy stuff he's done this game; I think there is a good case for Pandain being mafia. Paperscraps made a good point too, about Pandain tunneling me the whole game then switching to Bluelightz halfway through day 2 is strange too.
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can we kill sandroba today? I don't mind then killing pandain later for bad.
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##Vote Sandroba
I don't have enough of a read on Pandain yet, but he's on my watch list. He's saying some weird things. Ordering blues around... Making false claims then claiming he's not mafia before anyone accuses him of it... On the other hand, he's contributing a lot and certainly isn't afraid to throw himself in the spotlight.
Then there's Sandroba. Either Sandroba is a townie who doesn't care about winning, or he's not a townie. Either way he deserves at least to be lynched. On the plus side, if he does turn out to be a Vet, at least he did his job before going out.
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On March 06 2012 04:26 Palmar wrote:
can we kill sandroba today? I don't mind then killing pandain later for bad.
.... for bad what?
Frankly I think there is a better case against Pandain. Sandro said a few pages back that he was requesting a replacement, so idk if he's got IRL stuff that's causing him to be lurky. I have to say though the posts he has made so far have been kind of strange and out of place. I want to see if he has any response to the accusations, the vet claim is interesting and could explain some of his posts but he needs to give us some reason to believe this. In all, I think he is a good lynch candidate, but Pandain is better IMO.
Palmar, seriously, who writes this:
On March 05 2012 06:29 Pandain wrote:
Also I know this is going to come up so to get it out of the way:
1. There is NO reason I would do this if mafia. Think of one. Please. Tell me.
He does some stupid blue fake claim then tells everyone that this means he can't possibly be mafia. Seriously wtf is this?
When have you ever seen a town player do this?
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On March 06 2012 01:06 sandroba wrote:
I'm busy as fuck right now and I'm already working towards being replaced. I'm veteran. I got shot last night. That's all the info I have good luck.
If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched.
##Unvote
##Vote Sandroba
Side note: TheToast is scum.
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On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote:
Side note: TheToast is scum.
Would you like to explain that or are you just going to sling unsupported accusations at me?
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Slinging unsupported accusations is what I do! Have you been playing this game?
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On March 06 2012 05:27 Paperscraps wrote:
Have you been playing this game?
Idk have I? Maybe I just imagined it? O.O
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On March 06 2012 01:14 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote:
TheToast
You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so.
Explain.
How do you know that he wasn't going to be lynched? 10 minutes is more than enough time for two people to change their votes; I've seen it happen before. I wasn't the only one with my vote on Pandain, RG did as well; I think (and still think) there was more than enough reason to vote him for lynch. I also posted my analysis of Pandain, it's not like I just dropped a vote and left. I would have done it sooner but I had IRL stuff that was in the way. Fact is I didn't have a good read on Misder and I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK. I think Pandain was the better day 1 lynch.
This is not an explanation. Like you said there was 10 minutes left. So you drop a vote on someone who was neither first or second on the list. When you made that vote you were effectively choosing Misder. If there was only 10 minutes left, why did you leave it there? You say "it's not like I just dropped a vote and left" but either you did leave the thread immediately, or you chose to keep your vote on someone who was clearly not getting lynched. The fact that you say "I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK" and he was second in votes yet you didn't vote for him is damning in my eyes.
Updated scum list
Sandroba
TheToast
Bluelightz
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On March 06 2012 06:42 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 01:14 TheToast wrote:On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote:
TheToast
You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so.
Explain.
How do you know that he wasn't going to be lynched? 10 minutes is more than enough time for two people to change their votes; I've seen it happen before. I wasn't the only one with my vote on Pandain, RG did as well; I think (and still think) there was more than enough reason to vote him for lynch. I also posted my analysis of Pandain, it's not like I just dropped a vote and left. I would have done it sooner but I had IRL stuff that was in the way. Fact is I didn't have a good read on Misder and I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK. I think Pandain was the better day 1 lynch. This is not an explanation. Like you said there was 10 minutes left. So you drop a vote on someone who was neither first or second on the list. When you made that vote you were effectively choosing Misder. If there was only 10 minutes left, why did you leave it there? You say "it's not like I just dropped a vote and left" but either you did leave the thread immediately, or you chose to keep your vote on someone who was clearly not getting lynched. The fact that you say "I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK" and he was second in votes yet you didn't vote for him is damning in my eyes. Updated scum list Sandroba TheToast Bluelightz
So everyone who didn't have their votes on Misder or Sandro are auto-scum? I didn't think either of the top lynch candidates were scum, so who was I suppose to vote for? SK is going to go after scum first, so even if I was right abou that it wouldn't have been as helpful as killing scum Day 1. Pandain was the best candidate, that's who I voted for.
I don't know why you're trying to pin this on me. I'm not one of the idiots that jumped on the lynch Misder bandwagon. I put my vote on scum; I'm not responsible for what the rest of you did Day1. I didn't "effectively" choose Misder, he was lynched by the three idiots who hopped on the bandwagon.
What's your argument here Probulous? Would I look less scummy in your eyes if I had voted to lynch a townie? Pandain is scum, that's who I voted to lynch.
I wasn't the only vote on Pandain, RG had his vote on him too. Why is that? Maybe it's because Pandain looks scummy as all hell? That was two votes on Pandain, only two people would have needed to switch to make the lynch. Same exact fucking situation for Palmar. Paperscraps & Adam4167 were both on Palmar, and Adam4167 posted less than two hours before the deadline. Why didn't he switch his vote, after all Palmar had no chance of getting lynched? Maybe it was because Adam had reason to believe Palmar was scummy.
Probulous the logic you are using is what allows scum to start the lynch bandwagons like they used against Misder. This idea that everyone has to vote one or two candidates is exactly what Mafia loves as it allows them to railroad town into picking between two townies. It's up to town to vote for who they think is scum, not who they think have the best chance of getting lynched. News flash, townies ALWAYS have the best chance of getting lynched.
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I try and make this brief
- You didn't think Misder was scum
- You thought sandroba was SK
- Both had the same number of votes but Misder reached there first.
- You voted Pandain.
- Misder gets lynched.
You were around when the lynch went down, you could see that no-one was switching. Pushing for a Pandain lynch is fine but you cannot deny that you chose not to lynch the SK. Now you say that the SK would be working for town. That's a big assumption. How do you know he shoots straight?
More importantly you chose to let someone you didn't think was scum die just so you could vote for Pandain.
Either you did drop your vote and leave in which case you have lied to us, OR you watched Misder get lynched (someone you thought was town) and chose to keep the SK alive.
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On March 06 2012 02:59 Palmar wrote:
That's a dumb vote Toast. While Pandain's gambit was hilariously bad, I'd still bet on this being a town-pandain idea rather than scum Pandain. . No your just either a dick/stupid. I effectively confirmed (90%) AKCT as town, generated discussion when there wAs none, managed to see how people reacted to the claim, all In the course of 12 hours. Which is Alot more then anyone did/would've done. Your just blind to any idea which you didn't do.
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On March 06 2012 07:07 Probulous wrote:I try and make this brief - You didn't think Misder was scum
- You thought sandroba was SK
- Both had the same number of votes but Misder reached there first.
- You voted Pandain.
- Misder gets lynched.
You were around when the lynch went down, you could see that no-one was switching. Pushing for a Pandain lynch is fine but you cannot deny that you chose not to lynch the SK. Now you say that the SK would be working for town. That's a big assumption. How do you know he shoots straight? More importantly you chose to let someone you didn't think was scum die just so you could vote for Pandain. Either you did drop your vote and leave in which case you have lied to us, OR you watched Misder get lynched (someone you thought was town) and chose to keep the SK alive.
I don't think it's an assumption at all. Allow me to quote something the late RG wrote:
On March 02 2012 03:48 rgTheSchworz wrote:
it s probable that we dont have an SK.
Either way, he is town at first, cause Mafia are his enemies. He doesnt want to end up alone Vs scum, cuz scum know who s scum and can find him pretty easily.
So, Mr SK, we lynch u after all scum have gone,ok?
RG's point was really good. If SK takes out town first, SK looses the game. Simple as that. Early on SK is essentially an extra vig for town. Makes no sense to kill them when there is a practically confirmed scum player.
And I didn't LET anyone die. You all were quite capable of changing your votes. Stop trying to stick the Misder lynch on me. I didn't hop on the bandwagon, I didn't vote for him. I would have posted my analysis against Pandain earlier but I was seriously having IRL interet issues. If that makes me scum, then whatever, there's nothing I can do to confirm myself as town then apparently.
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It's simple Toast, you had choice to keep your vote on Pandain and watch a townie die, or put your vote on Sandroba and watch a SK die. I have pushed the others who voted on different targets and most (beside Blue) have given decent reasoning. Whilst the people who voted Misder could be scum they could also be town who believed they were voting for mafia.
Now you say that the SK would shoot mafia. That much is obvious. I go back to my previous point. He doesn't know who mafia are (he could shoot town) and we have to kill him before the end of the game. Obviously it is better to lynch mafia over the SK, but it is better to lynch the SK over town.
You can't dodge your responsibility here. As far as I can tell from the posts around that time the only two people posting were you and Snarfs. Snarfs voted for Sandroba which tied the votes and then you voted for Pandain. You never even addressed Snarfs. You posted 10 minutes before the deadline and then sat back and watched nothing change.
As for proving you're town, a defense that I might have accepted would have been that you misread the voting rules and thought a no-lynch was going to happen. Or even if you could point to somewhere in your filter where you say that both Misder and Sandroba are town (that's what Adam did). Instead you say you think Sandroba is the SK but you didn't nail him to the wall. Instead you watched Misder swing and you could have done something about it.
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There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
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I'm up for lynching either bluelightz or toast
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On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote:
There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
I agree that he isn't scum, but he's almost certainly SK. We're better off lynching him now, rather than letting him get another shot off.
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EPT
