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From Scum QT:
My thoughts (and hopeful long temr plans) about this:
D2-gumshoe/Alderan misslynch
N2-DYH kill
D3-gumshoe/Alderan misslynch
N3-zelblade/phagga kill
D4-probably a lynch on one of us, but hopefully on Chocolate (since the player that I think could turn town to not lynch him, meaning DYH, would be dead).
sloosh, I don't think him not giving them reads will help him. Him defending himself against the cases against him is doable, but we can help him with his reads, depending on what we want to plan for the future
Called it >_>
(well, except for the DYH kill)
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On March 08 2012 12:46 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +jaj22 on Obs QT wrote:
I'd be surprised if there was a godfather going by standard balance. There was a 4/9 game recently with vig/DT/doc and no mafia power roles. This game has a roleblocker unless Zelblade is crazy.
My main concern with your scum team is Jekyll: He's a relatively experienced player (and ObsQT lurker), he's had no suspicion on him at all, and he's playing incredibly blue. So why is he still alive?
Sloosh's last post is pretty damn funny because it's so true. Whole bunch of reasoning-free votes and a town that's too scared of getting themselves lynched to scumhunt properly. The bastards keep lynching my best town reads.
I'd really love to know what the DT is doing. They'll probably get vigged tonight.
So the first time we are even mentioned in a suspicious light, is at the beginning of N3?  Show nested quote +Alderan on Obs QT wrote:
I have a tough time reading Jekyll because of the hydra, one of them has had a lot better analysis than the other. This makes me lean town, because with this quiet of a town, scum has plenty of time to make really good cases for the weaker of the 2. So...who were you talking about there with the "better analysis"? >_> Wait... OBS QT; WHY Y NOT FOS US NOT EVEN A SINGLE TIME!!!???? Really? No players from the game FoSed us a single time; and no one from the Obs QT FoSes us either. Wtf? lol I was making a bet with Ceph the other day (at the beginning of D3) about when players would FoS us for the first time He betted on halfway through D3, I betted on halfway through N3... ....we were both hilariously wrong >_> DYH, may you explain why you thought we were town? EDIT: Apart from that "You guys were blue!" thing. Ceph already explained that to me like 1000 times >_>
Early on you said something that really bugged me
"I have got my hands on Hyde, and after talking about our opinions, we agreed to disagree in some things"
That post was very very frustrating I read it and realized it would be perfect scum play, like perfect, first off why would a scum hydra disagree with itself? It know everything, furthermore your disagreement statues opens things up for you both to state opposite opinions, this move would be a stroke of genius if you were scum, the more likely explanation(well to be fair the one I wanted to be true) though was that you were just a conflicting townie hydra, but with that one line I realized it would too difficult to tackle you if you were mafia because I would be fighting someone who could agree with me and disagree with me at the same, Personally I think you should've capitalized on it more, you should've offered more split opinions and used the fact that you couldn't agree with each other as an excuse for poor lynch options if you were pressured(though that never came up as you pointed out )
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On March 08 2012 13:08 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 12:46 gonzaw wrote:jaj22 on Obs QT wrote:
I'd be surprised if there was a godfather going by standard balance. There was a 4/9 game recently with vig/DT/doc and no mafia power roles. This game has a roleblocker unless Zelblade is crazy.
My main concern with your scum team is Jekyll: He's a relatively experienced player (and ObsQT lurker), he's had no suspicion on him at all, and he's playing incredibly blue. So why is he still alive?
Sloosh's last post is pretty damn funny because it's so true. Whole bunch of reasoning-free votes and a town that's too scared of getting themselves lynched to scumhunt properly. The bastards keep lynching my best town reads.
I'd really love to know what the DT is doing. They'll probably get vigged tonight.
So the first time we are even mentioned in a suspicious light, is at the beginning of N3? Alderan on Obs QT wrote:
I have a tough time reading Jekyll because of the hydra, one of them has had a lot better analysis than the other. This makes me lean town, because with this quiet of a town, scum has plenty of time to make really good cases for the weaker of the 2. So...who were you talking about there with the "better analysis"? >_> Wait... OBS QT; WHY Y NOT FOS US NOT EVEN A SINGLE TIME!!!???? Really? No players from the game FoSed us a single time; and no one from the Obs QT FoSes us either. Wtf? lol I was making a bet with Ceph the other day (at the beginning of D3) about when players would FoS us for the first time He betted on halfway through D3, I betted on halfway through N3... ....we were both hilariously wrong >_> DYH, may you explain why you thought we were town? EDIT: Apart from that "You guys were blue!" thing. Ceph already explained that to me like 1000 times >_> Early on you said something that really bugged me "I have got my hands on Hyde, and after talking about our opinions, we agreed to disagree in some things" That post was very very frustrating I read it and realized it would be perfect scum play, like perfect, first off why would a scum hydra disagree with itself? It know everything, furthermore your disagreement statues opens things up for you both to state opposite opinions, this move would be a stroke of genius if you were scum, the more likely explanation(well to be fair the one I wanted to be true) though was that you were just a conflicting townie hydra, but with that one line I realized it would too difficult to tackle you if you were mafia because I would be fighting someone who could agree with me and disagree with me at the same, Personally I think you should've capitalized on it more, you should've offered more split opinions and used the fact that you couldn't agree with each other as an excuse for poor lynch options if you were pressured(though that never came up as you pointed out )
Really?
I thought it was standard hydra-scum play.
For instance, Bromancipate (Prob+Jitsu hydra on Newbie 3) did it with zelblade (Jitsu thought he was town, and Prob thought he was scum, or the other way round), and some others I think.
That didn't work that well for them though, so I didn't really think it was a "perfect scum play".
Personally I think you should've capitalized on it more, you should've offered more split opinions and used the fact that you couldn't agree with each other as an excuse for poor lynch options if you were pressured(though that never came up as you pointed out )
But that would have required me to post in the thread >_>
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On March 08 2012 12:46 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +jaj22 on Obs QT wrote:
I'd be surprised if there was a godfather going by standard balance. There was a 4/9 game recently with vig/DT/doc and no mafia power roles. This game has a roleblocker unless Zelblade is crazy.
My main concern with your scum team is Jekyll: He's a relatively experienced player (and ObsQT lurker), he's had no suspicion on him at all, and he's playing incredibly blue. So why is he still alive?
Sloosh's last post is pretty damn funny because it's so true. Whole bunch of reasoning-free votes and a town that's too scared of getting themselves lynched to scumhunt properly. The bastards keep lynching my best town reads.
I'd really love to know what the DT is doing. They'll probably get vigged tonight.
So the first time we are even mentioned in a suspicious light, is at the beginning of N3?
I mentioned you re N1 kills. "I suppose you could go hunting for players who might start playing well later, like Jekyll, but it's quite possible that it's a scumhydra." I had blue/red reads on both you and Sloosh since day 1 and became increasingly suspicious each time you didn't die 
Tough game to make reads on though. It was hard to spot scum between the lurking blues and the unreadables, as none of the scum played that badly. Sloosh's day 1 lurking looked implausible though.
My favourite first-24-hours prediction: "If Chocolate and igabod are town, town are doomed."
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On March 08 2012 13:12 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 13:08 gumshoe wrote:On March 08 2012 12:46 gonzaw wrote:jaj22 on Obs QT wrote:
I'd be surprised if there was a godfather going by standard balance. There was a 4/9 game recently with vig/DT/doc and no mafia power roles. This game has a roleblocker unless Zelblade is crazy.
My main concern with your scum team is Jekyll: He's a relatively experienced player (and ObsQT lurker), he's had no suspicion on him at all, and he's playing incredibly blue. So why is he still alive?
Sloosh's last post is pretty damn funny because it's so true. Whole bunch of reasoning-free votes and a town that's too scared of getting themselves lynched to scumhunt properly. The bastards keep lynching my best town reads.
I'd really love to know what the DT is doing. They'll probably get vigged tonight.
So the first time we are even mentioned in a suspicious light, is at the beginning of N3? Alderan on Obs QT wrote:
I have a tough time reading Jekyll because of the hydra, one of them has had a lot better analysis than the other. This makes me lean town, because with this quiet of a town, scum has plenty of time to make really good cases for the weaker of the 2. So...who were you talking about there with the "better analysis"? >_> Wait... OBS QT; WHY Y NOT FOS US NOT EVEN A SINGLE TIME!!!???? Really? No players from the game FoSed us a single time; and no one from the Obs QT FoSes us either. Wtf? lol I was making a bet with Ceph the other day (at the beginning of D3) about when players would FoS us for the first time He betted on halfway through D3, I betted on halfway through N3... ....we were both hilariously wrong >_> DYH, may you explain why you thought we were town? EDIT: Apart from that "You guys were blue!" thing. Ceph already explained that to me like 1000 times >_> Early on you said something that really bugged me "I have got my hands on Hyde, and after talking about our opinions, we agreed to disagree in some things" That post was very very frustrating I read it and realized it would be perfect scum play, like perfect, first off why would a scum hydra disagree with itself? It know everything, furthermore your disagreement statues opens things up for you both to state opposite opinions, this move would be a stroke of genius if you were scum, the more likely explanation(well to be fair the one I wanted to be true) though was that you were just a conflicting townie hydra, but with that one line I realized it would too difficult to tackle you if you were mafia because I would be fighting someone who could agree with me and disagree with me at the same, Personally I think you should've capitalized on it more, you should've offered more split opinions and used the fact that you couldn't agree with each other as an excuse for poor lynch options if you were pressured(though that never came up as you pointed out ) Really? I thought it was standard hydra-scum play. For instance, Bromancipate (Prob+Jitsu hydra on Newbie 3) did it with zelblade (Jitsu thought he was town, and Prob thought he was scum, or the other way round), and some others I think. That didn't work that well for them though, so I didn't really think it was a "perfect scum play". Show nested quote +Personally I think you should've capitalized on it more, you should've offered more split opinions and used the fact that you couldn't agree with each other as an excuse for poor lynch options if you were pressured(though that never came up as you pointed out ) But that would have required me to post in the thread >_>
yeah >_> I guess your right, I saw that early on and was like dammit thats brilliant, but I guess stuff like this comes down to experience
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I find hydra's really frustrating to deal with. Since they are generally formed because the 2 players don't have time to play the full game by themselves, I think it is perfectly legitimate for them to post less because both players admit they can't give the game enough time. So if there are big gaps in posting I think it is easily explained away by a lack of communication between the two players. Also, their ability to having 2 different sources for posts to be coming from makes it really hard to make reads.
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You're all welcome for the game, and I'm glad you all seemed to enjoy it. I was afraid that this might have been a bad time to host a game, considering that university schedules usually seem to get busier around this time of year with midterms or finals. The game did get pretty quiet many times, and I count ourselves lucky that we were even able to find three replacements on Day 1 (many thanks to kitaman for allowing us to steal newbies from his game!) and continue the game normally. After TestSubject giving the Mafia a small scare tonight until he showed up and voted, Qatol and I are definitely thinking about adding a rule that everyone needs to post at least once every 24 hours. I do understand that real life can get hectic and difficult without any warning, but it does make it tough on the rest of the game if someone just disappears for an entire day without a single post.
Overall, the Mafia did a good job of looking fairly convincingly like townies and leading the town astray, and I thought slOosh and NightFury in particular played quite well in being visible and active through much of the game. On the town side, I was very impressed by this post by Alderan, whose four major points (DoYouHas is town, slOosh is Mafia, k2hd is town, and Alderan has already been checked by a DT) are all correct. I was also pleased by how zelblade took over for FourFace so well despite being a replacement, and DoYouHas of course did a good job of leading the town and making cases, even if his reads weren't all entirely correct.
Thanks for playing, everyone!
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DYH: Did it not bother you at all that Jekyll/Cephiro half of the hydra eventually showed up with a huge policy-fluff post on night 1? That seemed like the last thing a smart, time-short town player would do. At the time I forgot it was Cephiro and assumed it was someone daft
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On March 08 2012 13:28 jaj22 wrote:DYH: Did it not bother you at all that Jekyll/Cephiro half of the hydra eventually showed up with a huge policy-fluff post on night 1? That seemed like the last thing a smart, time-short town player would do. At the time I forgot it was Cephiro and assumed it was someone daft
Should I take this as an compliment or not? Ahaha. :D
But thanks everyone for a good game! Indeed, I originally planned to be more active, but on top of the things I knew would already happen, I got some surprising extra stuff going on, and this quieter style of play seemed to work well enough so I decided to stick with it and see what I could do. Expect me to scramble things up next time...!
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I fell hard into the trap this game of not holding questionable play against people. I felt really adrift on the criteria I was using to scumhunt. That really showed itself in my speculation on how scum were acting and my lack of hard stances early on. I felt like I was having to decide whether questionable play meant scum or if it meant town. Instead of NMM3 where I just pointed it out and pushed for it. Acknowledging the WIFOM aspects of newbie meta really hurt my confidence.
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I'm kinda baffled that nttea protected Alderan n1 and then tried to have him killed by default d2. Maybe he got confused
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On March 08 2012 13:59 gonzaw wrote:
EDIT: Now that I look at it:
Did nttea save anyone on N2?
I mean, it would have been useless (since he was the kill), but did he at least try? (it doesn't say he did on the Night Action list)
No he didn't. We thought he just wasn't around, but then he posted right after the night post. We're still a little confused about what happened there.
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Thanks for the great game guys!
Hopefully I didn't overstep any lines - I played to my win con and it required some crafty mudslinging indeed.
First time rolling mafia, and I gotta say its not as fun as townie, where you try piecing the puzzle together rather than stopping other people from doing it. But then again it was pretty fun to have people to talk to while playing the game (played so much IRC games while waiting for deadlines and stuff >.<)
DYH I think you played really well that final day. I do agree that there isn't any point to posting full lists, and drawing lines cause people on the "other team" less likely to listen and cooperate with you, and gives information that is more helpful to mafia than it is to town. If anything, a full list should only be posted at night where you may fear death.
I don't know how effective my play on my meta was this game, but one thing I'm learning is that it really should be disregarded especially in newbie games. Former impressions of players set can lead to subjective rather than objective evaluations of people. I know I did it in the last mini and saw hints of it here and there this game. Many times I wished I was playing with a fresh pool of people so I didn't feel restricted in my playstyle (or maybe that is just feeling you get playing as scum?)
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On March 08 2012 15:26 slOosh wrote:
Thanks for the great game guys!
Hopefully I didn't overstep any lines - I played to my win con and it required some crafty mudslinging indeed.
First time rolling mafia, and I gotta say its not as fun as townie, where you try piecing the puzzle together rather than stopping other people from doing it. But then again it was pretty fun to have people to talk to while playing the game (played so much IRC games while waiting for deadlines and stuff >.<)
I'm not sure which faction I like more, but the whole manipulation aspect of scum can be pretty fun. It's a lot more delicate and intricate to play scum imo; it's not just trying to stop other people from piecing a puzzle, you're also showing everyone some fabricated puzzle that they should accept. which is a really hard thing to do.
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On March 08 2012 15:26 slOosh wrote:
Thanks for the great game guys!
Hopefully I didn't overstep any lines - I played to my win con and it required some crafty mudslinging indeed.
First time rolling mafia, and I gotta say its not as fun as townie, where you try piecing the puzzle together rather than stopping other people from doing it. But then again it was pretty fun to have people to talk to while playing the game (played so much IRC games while waiting for deadlines and stuff >.<)
DYH I think you played really well that final day. I do agree that there isn't any point to posting full lists, and drawing lines cause people on the "other team" less likely to listen and cooperate with you, and gives information that is more helpful to mafia than it is to town. If anything, a full list should only be posted at night where you may fear death.
I don't know how effective my play on my meta was this game, but one thing I'm learning is that it really should be disregarded especially in newbie games. Former impressions of players set can lead to subjective rather than objective evaluations of people. I know I did it in the last mini and saw hints of it here and there this game. Many times I wished I was playing with a fresh pool of people so I didn't feel restricted in my playstyle (or maybe that is just feeling you get playing as scum?)
Sloosh you were playing well man. I had suspicions of you early, but you never slipped big enough that I could make a good enough case.
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Flawless Victory. GG scum. Shame on vig. DT claim faster ffs. Townies try to prove your innocence faster above all else. DoYouHas .. I'm sorry dude. Forget about it.
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On March 08 2012 14:09 jaj22 wrote:I'm kinda baffled that nttea protected Alderan n1 and then tried to have him killed by default d2. Maybe he got confused
i actually didn't mean to to have him lynched really, i just thought it seemed appropriate to force him to defend himself a bit i probably worded it too harshly. And no i didn't protect anyone night2 i was going to but then i got distracted by shiny things and suddenly night was over.
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Oh man, sorry town, I really let you guys down. All my scum reads were wrong.
(At least I got my 2 town reads right, zelblade and ghost).
@DoYouHas: Your post where you made the groups were the nail in the coffin. Up to then, I was undecided if I would really go and vote chocolate or if sloosh might be an option. But that post made it pretty clear for me that you were scum.
@Chocolate: Similar to DYH, after D2 I actually had no clear intention to lynch you anymore, I got the feeling that I might have been wrong about you. But the way you came back on D3 on Alderan and the post were you said something among the lines of "if we really have to start kill mafia tomorrow" brought you back to my attention.
@k2hd: If you would have claimed DT, I would have believed you immediatly. On the last day I saw you rather on the townie side, and I realized that what I thought was scum behaviour, was probably rather blue behaviour.
Generally: After the werewolves game this game was dissappointing in terms of activity. I was really frustrated D3 and D4 about the low activity, and yesterday I kinda started hoping that it would be over soon. I guess I won't try another newbie game, but hop straight into something else.
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On March 08 2012 13:28 dreamflower wrote:
After TestSubject giving the Mafia a small scare tonight until he showed up and voted, Qatol and I are definitely thinking about adding a rule that everyone needs to post at least once every 24 hours. I do understand that real life can get hectic and difficult without any warning, but it does make it tough on the rest of the game if someone just disappears for an entire day without a single post.
I understand where you are coming from, and I even thought about proposing such a rule myself for future game at one point, but I think it is not needed. I think the possibility for mafia to lurk away unnoticed is good, and such a rule might interfere with that. I would not implement it.
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EPT
