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On February 25 2012 18:39 Blazinghand wrote:
So you are utterly unconvinced by my claim, my crumb, and my explanation for my voting actions near the end of D1?
I'm heading to bed fairly soon. I guess at least this will provide some context for who was getting on my wagon when etc when I flip. Hopefully though I won't, since you guys are reasonable.
Any questions/comments/concerns before I sleep?
Given that your extra vote was never factored into the vote as far as I can see it at the moment I am going to call bullshit on your claim. Factor in your poor play and overall disrespectul demeanor to players in the last few pages, imo you outright lied to me although you will argue you did not, then I am keeping my vote on you. In my view you have played the most scummy this entire game thus far. I will be back early to mid afternoon est as I am jetting to work now.
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Shit I actually believe that claim =/ (haven't reread though)
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except Floridian doesn't say anything about his alignment.
Just look at XLVII, where we had a Floridian on both sides.
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As a general note as well just before I leave. Given that we have no clue what the setup actually is, I will once again say that role does not actually equate to alignment. A vote manipulation role is actually something in a setup like this that would be incredibly pro mafia -_-. Roles like the vote rigger/floridian/fakesteve/showtime, etc.. are some of the most powerful mafia sided roles from our other games.
When factoring in any claim people please take into account the actual play of the player up to that point and not just take the claim as they claim it. Now I'm gone.
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##Vote Blazinghand
How to botch up a blue-claim as scum 101.
If BH flips scum I want to kill Jitsu.
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On February 25 2012 13:55 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 12:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 25 2012 09:54 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 25 2012 03:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
RoL thinks I'm mafia because I don't care about guessing what the mafia will do at night, especially after people are announcing it in the thread. Terrible analysis, he's doing it only out of defense and his "activity" is completely centered around his defense now.
I swear to god, I get this shit every time. I'm not bothering defending your accusation which is retarded. You were mad I didn't reiterate points against BC, yet if I did I would get accused of having no original analysis. It's fucks me either way in your analysis so don't try to pretend that was even an actual point. I have over 30 posts and I have other shit to do, I don't get it. Do I need to spam 24/7 from my phone to not be accused of inactivity? I could surely go WBG/BH style all over this game if you want. It is an actual point. Your whole reason for voting redFF was that he claimed and instead of coming out and explaining why he is scum you just focused on the immediate point which was that he made a claim which was not a helpful town play but if RedFF was indeed town it's very understandable that he would claim tracker. A lot of the points made against BC were points I made anyway. I just don't understand how you could be so lazy to not offer any explanation for who you thought was scum until you got called out by me. The first time you even bothered to push a lynch or make a case for why someone was scum was defensively. Being inactive is one thing but I think you're scum because of your posts primarily. Youwant me to explain how every bit of redff's claim was scummy? As soon as I get home I will explain in explicit detail how given the set up and his experience that shit was incredibly antitown and it was a 24 hour preemptive defense before a lynch. He was scummy before the claim and the claim was scummy then how the fuck can you say he's town? I don't get this thought train you and syllogism are pushing that he was in any sense town. Secondly this omgus shit needs to stop. I called you scummy yesterday and just expanded on my case after you posted nonsense on me. Sorry I can't hound the thread 24/7 and post useless blocks of bullshit like you can and for that I get punished by these ridiculous claims day 2 every game. When I get back tonight if its not too late I will explain what I promised. I work 10-6 so I will definitely try to get that in before I have to work.
To elaborate now. RedFF was considered scummy for spamming/trolling/halfheartedly pushing policy lynches then admittedly jumping ship to easier lynch candidates simply because they were easier. There is a reason he was lynched, and there was a reason we thought he was scummy.
Now I believe RedFF should have the experience to know a claim shouldn't save you. Just make a reasonable case, do some work and any logical and reasonable explanation of your behavior should be possible if you are town. Claiming a role 24 hours into the thread is not smart and in no way is it town. As I just said, no one should rely on a roleclaim to save them, especially in a closed set up.
I have set it before, but hell why not do it again. We are in a closed set up. We don't know what additional roles the scum might have so claiming is really bad. Scum could have a role that can kill if you know a players role for all we know. Meaning he secured his fate.
But more importantly, in most set ups for the sake of balance a roleblocker usually exists. If we assume that then a claim of tracker fucks us even harder. In this set up we are NOT alerted of RB's, etc. Meaning if RedFF is lying mafia doesn't even necessarily have to hide its RB since no one will ever know they were RBed. On top of this, RedFF can now never prove his claim because his action will theoretically never work until we lynch the roleblocker at which point RedFF could finally "prove" himself assuming he's not lying. He said if he gets RBed lynch him day 2, this is obviously a delay tactic and when scum "RB's" him we end up in the same spot tomorrow, having lynched someone less suspicious and scummy.
As for the no flip, if he was scum it would make sense, especially if it was his own power. We really can't know. There might of been a better tactical use of it, there might still be that option. I can see the reasons scum might cover the lynch, but I could also see better uses of it assuming RedFF was town, so if RedFF as town doesn't really fit in with what we know, then all we have left is RedFF as scum.
So yeah, I think RedFF was scum because his behavior before his claim was scummy. His actual claim was really bad in an antitown sense, and upon reading and seeing DrH trying to soft defend RedFF I believe RedFF was scum and DrH is scum. Can anyone think of ANY reason to try to subtly defend a player besides not wanting to be aligned with them, yet not wanting them dead? The only scenario where that happens is scum-scum since no town should be scared to openly have connections to players.
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I voted for RedFF specifically to get him lynched over BC because I thought he was scum
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On February 25 2012 19:13 Dirkzor wrote:
Shit I actually believe that claim =/ (haven't reread though)
why, it wasn't factored into the vote at all
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RoL 4/5 paragraphs in that post are just explaining why his roleclaim was a bad play. Since you admit this is a closed setup and we have no idea what scum or town might be able to do why would you assume he is scum based on a no-flip? This could just be a no-flip game anyway.
The fact that he said if I'm RB'd kill me makes me more inclined to think his claim was genuine. Mafia would be far more aware of the rules and how roleblocking works if they have one and him forgetting that he wouldn't even know about an RB is more town than scum indicative.
I was more concerned with how badly he misrepresented other peoples arguments and seemed to be putting words in peoples mouths than the fact that he was spammy. He wasn't halfheartedly pushing a policy lynch, he was pushing it really hard until no one went along with it. His moving around from candidate to candidate in retrospect seems very indecisive or that he is doubting himself under pressure, although it could indeed be scum flip-flopping.
If you think I'm scum for defending RedFF that's interesting seeing as he was my #1 read on Day 1 and I voted to lynch him and switched my vote at the last minute after pressuring BC a lot. Am I scum for "defending" BC now?
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On February 26 2012 01:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 19:13 Dirkzor wrote:
Shit I actually believe that claim =/ (haven't reread though) why, it wasn't factored into the vote at all
What do you mean? I was talking about BH's claim. What vote? My vote?
It was just my gut feeling when I read it the first time..
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I actually believe BH's claim as well. There is no way he would make up a floridian, is there? However it's a role that works for both sides so that's not really helping, at all.
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On February 26 2012 01:21 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 25 2012 19:13 Dirkzor wrote:
Shit I actually believe that claim =/ (haven't reread though) why, it wasn't factored into the vote at all What do you mean? I was talking about BH's claim. What vote? My vote? It was just my gut feeling when I read it the first time..
He apperently never used his doublevote. That's what DocH pointed out. Either it's bullshit and he isn't a floridian or he isn't aware of the fact that you have to tell palmar that you want a doublevote everytime you use it.
At least that's the way it worked in... whatever the number is...
He even said it's a "passive" bluerole so it makes sense that he isn't aware of that but on the other hand that's obviously a nice excuse for fakeclaiming.
However given how easy it is to just tell him "yo dude, you have to tell palmar to doublevote" and spoil his evil plan (if he is mafia) I just doubt that,
Looks to me like he has no idea what's going on, which is again hinting town imo, because a mafia player would have buddies telling him "yo dude, you have to tell palmar to doublevote". But that's of course wifom, especially now that I've said that and maybe he's aiming for that.
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It's basicly the same argument I had in one of my first minis ( I think the 2nd?):
Someone said someting along the lines "yeah but there's still 4 mafia alive, therefore we need to...." and it was a 12 player game with 3 mafias tops. That was a known fact. The guy was about to get lynched and the moment he said that it looked really weird because a mafia would know how many mafia players there are wouldn't he?
So it's either a really strong town tell or he did that on purpose to try and look confused to look like a townie. Or floridians are not the same way they used to be in .... whatever the number is...
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Well we don't really know if his vote was counted twice or not. At the time of lynch it was 8 votes for RedFF and 5 for BC. So even if BH vote was counted twice we won't know since it was then 8 to 6 and RedFF still dies (goes missing).
If I had time (I haven't) I would go back and check if his claim to change his vote around so that no one would see that he had a double vote was for real.
I don't know much I can be online tonight since I'm at a friend. I'm keeping my vote in BH since he is/was acting scummy and a 2 vote role can be either scum or town.
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You should all be voting for VisceraEyes!
However, Blazinghand is an acceptable lynch, his play is anti-town. His claim does nothing to establish his innocence.
I will have to go in about 90 minutes, so if you want my thoughts on something you need to ask now.
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I expect that RoL will be voting for BH since claiming in this game makes you scum apparently
redFF: 7
RebirthOfLeGenD
Kitaman27
Wherebugsgo
chaoser
BloodyC0bbler
layabout
Blazinghand
Is it normal for these doublevote roles not to have their votes counted as such? Shouldn't it say
redFF: 8
RebirthOfLeGenD
Kitaman27
Wherebugsgo
chaoser
BloodyC0bbler
layabout
Blazinghand
I'd be willing to lynch RoL or VE and we could test BH's claim if it was something like this:
BH : 6
Person
Person
Person
Person
Person
VE : 5
BH
Person
Person
Person
Person
If BH is telling the truth, VE would die come night instead of BH.
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EBWOP:
BH - 6
person
person
person
person
person
person
VE/RoL - 5
BH
person
person
person
person
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in TL Mafia XLVIII the 2nd vote actually showed up as an additional anonymous but I have no idea how it's done in this game but yeah it should show up somehow I'd say.
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On February 26 2012 02:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I expect that RoL will be voting for BH since claiming in this game makes you scum apparently
I think it's more along the lines of, "claiming a role that could be claimed as any alignment when you look like scum and are a lynch candidate does not make you town".
Doc are you actually suggesting that we vote so that BH can save himself if in fact he is a double voter by setting up a scenario that would require a collective effort, a collective agreement and cooperation?
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That's what it was in TL Mafia XLVIII:
+ Show Spoiler +With 24 players alive, it takes 13 to lynch
List of Voters
Hier (14)
syllogism
Toadesstern
Anonymous
Palmar
Radfield
syllogism
Erandorr
redFF
sandroba
Refallen
Zephirdd
Palmar
Anonymous
Toadesstern
Lanaia
Jackal58
vaderseven
prplhz
I just copy & pasted the text... some of the votes are struck out, that's why some people are on that list twice :p
Simply doublevoting would prove that he is a floridian but given what I said that's not making a difference. If his breadcrumb was any good I'd be willing to say it's a townie for sure but that breadcrum he quoted is literally the worst breadcrumb I've ever seen. Even now that I've got someone pointing at it and telling me 'there it is' I'm not really sure of it. That could be anything and for me it'is just not a breadcrumb.
So it all comes down to wifom imo OR it really is a hidden, passive 2nd vote and there's no possibility to prove it.
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EPT
