EPTI've played three games before this one; this is my only chance to play a newbie xp
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
I've played three games before this one; this is my only chance to play a newbie xp | ||
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EchelonTee
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 On February 14 2012 07:34 Probulous wrote: I love watching the newbie games, always better manners and better scum hunting too. buh? | ||
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EchelonTee
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The MOST important thing that newbie townies lack, imo, is the ability to create a good town atmosphere. it's really important to keep discussion crisp, focused, and constructive, as opposed to belligerent, random/crazy, or the worst, when town activity is nonexistent. that said, I am going to play a lesser role in this game due to school ramping up, so I'm going to focus on making few, constructive posts. just an fyi. I won't lurk like a douche | ||
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guess we'll see how this game unfolds | ||
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On February 16 2012 07:27 d3_crescentia wrote: Ok, I'll play if there's a slot still open. It's about time I padded my post count. you should /in for the official-ness | ||
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On February 17 2012 09:02 GreYMisT wrote: ................................................................................................ I really just blew my 2k post on you guys............................... You guys better play your goddamned best. bad time for my metagame shift to a synthesis of Chezinu+Blazinghand, huh <3 | ||
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Mr. Wiggles Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=296791&user=152817 TL Mafia L: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=152817 GMarshall's Normal Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306452&user=152817 | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 17 2012 10:35 jaj22 wrote: Do I want to lynch lurkers on day 1? At a gut level, absolutely. It's not necessarily optimal though. If we have someone who's both active and scummy, lynching them is a better choice. However, that's much more likely if we don't let people lurk, so it's important to maintain a real threat. I agree, we should lynch lurkers. in a 12 man setup, Mafia can't lurk as easily or they lose like nubs. Newbie III is an example. with 15, they can hide away, as we lynch scummy looking newbs. If sloosh doesnt post within 12-24 hours, I'm going to presume that it's because he was busy posting in scum QT. | ||
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On February 17 2012 11:29 trackd00r wrote: By the way, that poll is just lol.... How are we going to keep non-players from voting? :/ If you think lingering on lurker discussion too long is a bad idea, then you should know that that poll is an even more useless time sink. | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 17 2012 11:33 gumshoe wrote: Why in tarnations would you think that? Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not, unfortunately less that 12 people out of the 15 voted so I cant say that they took any part in this vote, nor can I say that they didn't, what I can tell is that its highly likely that at some point around when town began to treat the poll as the sorta joke it seemed, and all voted the mafia option AGAINST my wishes(as I pretty much predicted), the mafia probably hoped on the happy train of cynicism to discredit the pole and not stand out. So this pole has been somewhat useful in showing that at least two or maybe even all four of the mafia are being active early on. Wether that information is useful or not you can decide for yourself, but you cant blame me for trying ) : I would like it if you divided your walls of text into paragraphs; it took me a few to fathom your post, when I realized you're not saying anything. | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 17 2012 11:43 gumshoe wrote: K very simple I wanted to see if any voting patterns formed within the poll It was like a lynch simulator But less than 12 people have voted in the pole therefore any conjecture regarding any mafia patterns is at the moment useless. Because it's possible that none of the mafia voted given that town thinks the poll is stupid and just posted on it randomly or trolingly. Discredit it until theres twelve votes or just discredit it period if you so please. That is all. I'm not trying to offend you, or needlessly discredit you; your post was just hard to understand, and I did not quite understand the purpose of what you did. post however you please. as a random aside: Mafia gets heated, so if I'm acting like an asshole just let me know and I'll tone back. | ||
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On February 17 2012 11:51 DoYouHas wrote: The point is not to lynch lurkers, it is to lynch scum. If a lynching a lurker is the best option we have near a deadline, then by all means, let's do it. But policy lynching is just a terrible idea. I am already looking suspiciously at the ET for espousing it. FOS: EchelonTee That lynching scum is better, is pretty obvious. However: 1.everyone is essentially posting: "lurking is bad, so we should pressure lurkers, but let's not actually lynch them because they could be bored townies, but let's keep the threat alive, but.... zzzzzzzzz" point is, lurking is bad, and there has to be legitimate reason to stop people from lurking. everyone stating they dislike lurkers, but being all wishy-washy on their opinion is useless. My last game was raped by lurkers, and 2/3 were scum. That is unacceptable. 2. policy discussion is conversation starter, not the main course. I'm not going to talk about this anymore. Policy discussion is good to draw out the tone of how people will be posting. But in the end, this stuff can't be the sole reason to lynch anyone. | ||
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On February 17 2012 12:20 slOosh wrote: No, because it was baseless. Instead, I tried to figure out what motive a townie might have by saying this in that manner. Calling out people 2~3 hours into the 48 hour day doesn't really make sense does it? Did I accuse you of being Mafia? don't twist my words. there a motives for both townie and scum to do so. | ||
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On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote: You are getting defensive. I just wanted you to clarify a post. Now, how is your attitude so flip-floppy? Three things: 1st: I clarified my post, pretty clearly. I said "because I wanted you to post". Clear, no? You are the one who did not want to drop it. Stating that I am being defensive is hypocritical, because you are getting all jazzed up on me asking you to post. My earlier post said "if sloosh doesnt post, I presume hes in scum QT". Since you posted, that means I don't presume that you're in scum QT. AKA, I am NOT calling you out in anyway. So why would you post this? On February 17 2012 12:20 slOosh wrote: No, because it was baseless. Instead, I tried to figure out what motive a townie might have by saying this in that manner. Calling out people 2~3 hours into the 48 hour day doesn't really make sense does it? Why keep on pressing this? you're being needlessly defensive, and soft accusing me. Mafia like soft accusing, it takes away the need for accountability. 2nd: Saying that I am flip-floppy implies that I am switching between at least 2 opinions, multiple times. What is the evidence you use to state that I am doing this? On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote: Gumshoe does his weird poll thing, you ask if he could write his posts more legibly, and then take a very friendly stance of making sure no one is offended, asking for accountability etc. Now I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how you shift your attitude so quickly. I assume the :D in the next quote indicates playfulness. Then just a few minutes later you lash out against me, clearly telling me what not to do - "don't twist my words" You don't even use my posts on gumshoe, you just mention it in passing. What? If you were trying to imply that I went from mean (gumshoe) > nice (gumshoe) > nice (you) > mean (you), and that this is a sign of attitude shifting that is utterly wrong. I am still completely suspicious of gumshoe; I just don't want to insult him and make him feel bad. I could easily do that, as I did to Timeaisis last game as scum, but I'm not in the mood to be manipulatory. Me stating that I don't want to be an asshole is irrelevant to my view point on gumshoe, my attitude has not shifted. Next, you presume that my disposition towards gumshoe and towards you should be the same, or else I am being suspicious. That makes no sense at all. Towards gumshoe, I am suspicious. Towards you, I was indifferent. Why do I have to act with the same attitude to different people? However, your subsequent posting shifted me to not liking you, because you wouldn't drop something insignificant. Thus, yes, *gasp* my attitude shifted ONCE from indifferent to suspicious, on you. Gee, changing opinions is so dastardly and scummy! For clarification: the last sentence was ironic. 3rd. Lastly, you make some argument about how townie and scum only think in certain ways: On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:And that last line: "there are motives for both townie and scum to do so." That may be true but a townie would never think like that. If they did something that might be misconstrued as scummy, they would clarify themselves. They wouldn't say both mafia and town could have acted in the way they did. If a townie did something that might be construed as scummy, they would clarify themselves, so that people don't get suspicious of them. If a scum did something that might be construed as scummy, they would clarify themselves, so that people don't get suspicious of them. Woah, Batman, town and scum can do the same things for the same reasons??? What is this??? slOosh, to presume that only townies try to look townie is foolish. You are using WIFOM. Finally, if you're truly suspicious of me, vote me. You already FoS'd me. You're trying to get someone else to start it, so that you don't have to claim responsibility when the bandwagon mislynches, but you're trying to put in the impetus so someone else will do the work for you. I know how scum works. shove off. | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote: And that last line: "there are motives for both townie and scum to do so." That may be true but a townie would never think like that. If they did something that might be misconstrued as scummy, they would clarify themselves. They wouldn't say both mafia and town could have acted in the way they did. Speculating on how townie and scum may or may not act. On February 17 2012 13:21 slOosh wrote: I would try to avoid guessing (and then announcing) how people will act as 1) People have different playstyles and so you can have two townies who act very differently (but with pro-town motives) 2) If they are mafia they can just do whatever you don't do and cast confusion upon the town. Talking about how they will act or not is not a solid way of finding them. It is otherwise known as WIFOM and is something that should be avoided. Advising that you shouldn't guess how people will act, and that WIFOM is bad. Explain this inconsistency. | ||
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On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote: EchelonTee, you shouldn't be so upset You're right. For some reason, I get a lot more upset when people accuse me of being Mafia when I'm Town, as opposed to when I'm actually Mafia. inb4 he's trying to make it seem like he's town in this game when he's actually not!! On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote: You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching. Indeed, I'm glad that you are. | ||
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On February 17 2012 13:51 slOosh wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 13:19 EchelonTee wrote: Why keep on pressing this? you're being needlessly defensive, and soft accusing me. Mafia like soft accusing, it takes away the need for accountability. I FOSed you. That isn't soft accusing. I'm not voting for you since my goal for town is active discussion by all members. If all I did day 1 was focus on you, then the other 3 mafia will be content in lurking all they want. 1. Next, you presume that my disposition towards gumshoe and towards you should be the same, or else I am being suspicious. That makes no sense at all. Towards gumshoe, I am suspicious. Towards you, I was indifferent. Why do I have to act with the same attitude to different people? You are friendly to the guy you are suspicious of and antagonistic to someone you are indifferent to. You have every right to act in which way you like, but doing something like that drew my attention. 2. Finally, if you're truly suspicious of me, vote me. You already FoS'd me. You're trying to get someone else to start it, so that you don't have to claim responsibility when the bandwagon mislynches, but you're trying to put in the impetus so someone else will do the work for you. I know how scum works. shove off. Calm down. The worst scenario for town is to have discussion dominated by two townies going at each others throats. So unless you think I am mafia, I would suggest that we both keep the town's best interest in mind and promote a good atmosphere.3. ***** Was typing this up before more people posted. Going to put it up so people understand my stance, but as I say in the last sentence, pursuing this isn't helpful. Its only 6 hours into the day so we still have plenty of time. Let's not get distracted by this but start getting people to post. 1. There are 4 Mafia, unless you are presuming that either you or I are Mafia. I'm going to assume that this was an honest mistake. 2. My point was that I was not being friendly to gumshoe; I was just trying to be civil. And I was only antagonistic to you after that one post, when I was no longer indifferent. 3. Ok. I responded as such because you FoS'd me twice. that's like, double the suspicion. on the plus side, since I'm an asshole, people at least had something to talk about. I'm sleeping now, so I hope the euro's pick up the conversation. | ||
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On February 17 2012 13:52 slOosh wrote: EBWOP: "other 3 or 4 mafia will be content lurking" Emotions got the best of me. Not assuming you are mafia. you ninja'd me!! | ||
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EchelonTee
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lol @ MannerKiss dropping a one liner and fading away | ||
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EchelonTee
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Someone asked me about the people I was aggressive towards. DoYouHas? Uhh I don't remember being aggresive towards him, I simply responded to his FoS. slOosh? needs more info gumshoe? he's the bastard stepchild of Sinensis and Bluelightz (from my normal mini game). That means, making bad, complicated plans, and posting lists of stuff. Does not mean he's scum. Not very helpful, but not scum at this point. I directly accused him because I thought he would panic if he was mafia. FoS: DimmuKlok Why? In his first post, he agrees with gumshoe's list posting thing (which is not optimal, fyi), but doesn't post as such with the excuse that he has no suspicions yet. not overly suspicious, and does hint that these list should be private, but this feels to me like he is asking people to post lists, while giving an excuse for him not to. This is anti-town. Next, he accuses MannerKiss and gumshoe, who are the most obvious and easy to pick on targets. Scum love to target 1. obvious noobs 2. people acting rly strangely, because they can post "logic" about how said person is scummy, even though they are just picking on sub-optimal play, not necessarily scummy play. I did this repeatedly in my past games as scum. This makes me suspicious. | ||
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On February 18 2012 09:31 jaj22 wrote: Probably much too early to be putting people in bold red, but I'm bored waiting for all the lurkers to post. Never too early to do so, unless you're making wild, baseless claims. And if this kind of activity maintains through the game, town is in good shape. | ||
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On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote: Ok, just woke up and caught on the action. So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1. No. I will eat a baby if that happens. + Show Spoiler + not really, but seriously, no. | ||
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On February 18 2012 09:42 MannerKiss wrote: Sorry i've been absent, work related stuff. Trying to catch up on the thread. Doyouhas pretty strong townie feeling to me. gumshoe - trying my best to overcome some scummy feeling from the earliest post, but it seems to have cleared up a little since the poll. Dimmuklok giving me the strongest scum vibe of all so far, (and not just because he's aggressive toward me). ET - also giving off a townie feeling i'll catch up on everyone else when i get home this evening don't buddy to me, I don't like that. Talk about my points, if you agree with me. | ||
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On February 18 2012 09:47 MidnightGladius wrote: Welcome back! The last we saw you, DYH was your first scumread. Now, he's "pretty strong townie"? He was trolling, most likely. You are not. ##Vote MidnightGladius more after these messages! | ||
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##Vote: MidnightGladius Apologies for posting in a spammy style. I am literally changing into a suit while watching people post this stuffz | ||
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On February 18 2012 09:51 MidnightGladius wrote: Finally some excitement! Or are you just going to run some of that point-by-point analysis with the red numbers? you're hilarious. DoYouHas, I'm soft defending gumshoe now. I guess you were writing up your post without seeing the updates. We have the same thoughts though. Let's lynch MidnightGladius. Or DimmuKloK no seriously, I gtg. I love the activity though, so refreshing | ||
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look at jaj's reasoning, then my reasoning. they're similar. i think u scum for same reason. u havent even responded to jaj's post, juist say "he dont make sense". u cant even respond legitimately. oh I'm scummy just for accusing you, eh? that's called OMGUS. u have no case on me brody. respond to jaj's case on u or die fr phone | ||
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can ppl stop ignoring my post on dimmuklok. stop saying that i'm doing nothing and posting "flashy", i posted some analysis. | ||
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dudez, I said I was going out and could not post substantively. cut me some slack. Going to make one big defense post, and one big analytical post in the next hour. some random notes: None of the analytically minded players have tried to hammer me yet. I find this surprising; sloosh could have rallied the town to lynch me by now, if he had wanted to. he has the posting ability, and enough people have bandwagoned on me. I don't support a lynch on sloosh atm. Someone said that flashy and aggresive play isn't inherently scummy. that's true. I think what a lot of people have disliked about me is that I am trying to "act on my own" (individualistic), while not having "clear intentions". For the former, I have pressed and poked a number of people, and addressed people's concerns on me (or am going to, shortly. seriously). If I really wanted to ignore town, I could just, ignore town, and not address anyone and just glorify my own reads. I'm not interested in that. Secondly, I ALREADY stated this, but I do NOT have an overarching plan! townies arent supposed to! I read the thread, see who I think is scummy, and post analysis on them if I feel that they are scummy enough. thats it. I can be more transparent in who I think is scummy, but you're not goign to get anything more out of trying to make it seem like i have hidden agendas. also: someone said something along the lines of "we need a town leader soon, this is going bad, lots of inactivity". Firstly, this is a newbie game; I don't expect any epic, super accurate analysis to come out of the blue, ESPECIALLY on Day 1 when reads are notoriously hard. The game is going decently atm. there is a LOT of content in the thread right now, its just if people are willing to read into it. writing up my posts now, pls dont accuse me of saying im going to post and not posting, cuz im working on it now -.- | ||
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zelblades: On February 18 2012 14:02 zelblade wrote: I believe that EchelonTee is mafia. What first caught my eye is this: What is the motivation for a townie to post this? He states that he wanted sloosh to post, but this seems like he is trying to throw some suspision onto him. Besides, why sloosh? At that point a large portion of the players had not even posted yet, yet of all of them he targert sloosh. Again, what is his motivation for wanting to call out sloosh in this way? He believes that sloosh is a good player and thus wants to discredit him by planting seeds of doubts in the minds of other players. 1. He later proceeds to get into an agurment with sloosh. Here, his attitude seems to be really defensive. As sloosh has already mentioned, this statement below is really defensive. He than goes on to FOS DimmuKlok, but never actually follows up on it. In fact, he goes ahead to vote MG around 20 minutes later with no reasoning at all whatsoever. Note that he never mentions MG at all throughout his entire filter but simply jumps onto him upon seeing jaj's case on him. 2. I believe that EchelonTee is scum. ##vote: EchelonTee 1.You're assuming that sloosh is town. Before the game, I said that I would be looking out for DoYouHas and Sloosh, because I know that they are good. If they town, thats great. If they are Mafia, that's bad. So I directly addressed sloosh so that I could get a read on him. It got sloosh to post, which can be only good for town. At that EXACT point in time, do you really think that I thought sloosh was mafia? I had NO read on sloosh because he hadn't posted, which is exactly why I wanted him to post. Was it an aggressive, perhaps needlessly so, way to go about it? perhaps, but it got the ball rolling. 2. First of all, I was away from thread. If you think I'm lying, that's fine and dandy, but you have no substantive case if you're basing it on "he accused Midnight without a case"; I was UNABLE to make a case then. I have the ability to be suspicious of more than one person, even if I don't post exactly so in the thread (gasp really?). Seeing midnight respond badly to jaj's post, which echo'd my thoughts on Dimmuklok made me want to vote midnight. Saying that I never followed up on Dimmuklok is misrepresentation: I ALREADY posted lines on him, which no one really cared about. You make it seem like I FoS'd him with no evidence. I did. here look | ||
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On February 18 2012 19:55 blae000 wrote: Just woke up, read the thread! There is alot back and forth, but two names that stick out the most to me is Ech and gumshoe. Ech: *He starts off by posting: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:11 EchelonTee wrote: Gumshoe I think you're mafia. for that poll. It may not be the biggest anti-town play ever. But its definitely not a pro-town post. One line, calling someone out at the very beginning for making a mistake. I agree, first thing I though when I saw the poll was :"dafuq is this guy doing? scum much?" But then again, posting this oneliner doesnt feel pro-town to me. 1. *Then he continues with: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:23 EchelonTee wrote: I agree, we should lynch lurkers. in a 12 man setup, Mafia can't lurk as easily or they lose like nubs. Newbie III is an example. with 15, they can hide away, as we lynch scummy looking newbs. If sloosh doesnt post within 12-24 hours, I'm going to presume that it's because he was busy posting in scum QT. Which I also find anti-town more then pro-town. The lynching lurkers part is fine, but the last sentence is overly agressive so early in the game. If it was a way to get him to post and it turns out your town, I dont like your style. With this short agressive post you are not giving anything valid to the rest of us in town. 2. *After an ok post where he defends himself from a FOS, this mess starts: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 12:05 slOosh wrote: Heartily agree that we cannot just talk about policy forever. However. Why did you post that last line? On February 17 2012 12:11 EchelonTee wrote: Because I wanted you to post. On February 17 2012 12:13 slOosh wrote: By threatening me with the label of mafia if I didn't? On February 17 2012 12:15 EchelonTee wrote: did you feel threatened? :D and so on.... Earlier I said I sided with Ech.. I filtered him to read up on his actions and started to regret taking his side in that arguement. While sloosh may have been overly defensive, he atleast brought up some points in his posts. He asked some questions. Ech responded with (again) way to agressive post, with no points or questions that could force out some useful information. Then it got out of control imo. Both of them coming of as suspicious, and continuing the posting while it should have stopped. But the very first posts(I quoted) is examples of posts i get suspicious of from ech. 3. *After the situation with sloosh settles down, I just dont get what Ech is trying: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 13:32 EchelonTee wrote: You're right. For some reason, I get a lot more upset when people accuse me of being Mafia when I'm Town, as opposed to when I'm actually Mafia. inb4 he's trying to make it seem like he's town in this game when he's actually not!! Indeed, I'm glad that you are. Giving excuses for his agressive posting. Which he also did earlier. And then this post: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 16:25 EchelonTee wrote: Oh WOW I totally went crazy, for some reason I thought sloosh double fos'd me, when it was DoYouHas who first did so. holy overreaction, batman. lol @ MannerKiss dropping a one liner and fading away More excuses, ok he might have realized he overreacted. But it's the last sentence that makes it weird, calling out MannerKiss. While MannerKiss did do that, this was after Ech vs Sloosh and people where talking about them, suspecting them. So this to me feels like this: "oh, my bad.. Btw, this guy doesnt look town at all lol".. The perfect moment to drag himself out of the hole by pointing at someone else. 4. *He gives a reasonable FOS on DimmuKlok, but sort of out of nowhere. I'm not going into it, because I doesnt provide anything in my case. *Lastly there is like 7-8 posts with one liners and just general bullshit.. Examples: + Show Spoiler + On February 18 2012 09:43 EchelonTee wrote: No. I will eat a baby if that happens. + Show Spoiler + not really, but seriously, no. On February 18 2012 09:49 EchelonTee wrote: He was trolling, most likely. You are not. ##Vote MidnightGladius more after these messages! On February 18 2012 09:54 EchelonTee wrote: you're hilarious. DoYouHas, I'm soft defending gumshoe now. I guess you were writing up your post without seeing the updates. We have the same thoughts though. Let's lynch MidnightGladius. Or DimmuKloK no seriously, I gtg. I love the activity though, so refreshing None of his last post gives anything to the town, while he looks active and sort of discussing with others. It's not "OMG YOUR SCUM" but it's absolutely not pro-town. This is the reason why Ech is on top of my list at the moment. 5. 1. If you saw gumshoe's poll and thought "dafuq this guy is scum", why didn't you say "I think you're scum"? I thought he was scum for that poll and I made my thoughts clear. More importantly, I made it clear that the poll was not an optimal idea at all, and town was able to move away from it as fast as possible. Seems pro-town to me. 2. I am not being "short"; I post a lot, and I have made large posts. Please don't mislabel me as someone who posts very little, insubstantially, while I have done neither. On the other hand, tell me, what exactly is the problem with being aggressive? When someone is aggressive, it forces other people to respond to them, to take stances, to address the issues. Would you rather me be passive, attack no one, and make everyone feel happy? I already said: if im being over the top, an asshole TELL ME TO STOP, regardless of what you think my alignment. But if I am not overstepping the line, and GMarshal can make it clear if so, me being aggressive forces people to post. This is GOOD for town. 3. I was having a conversation with sloosh. You seem to have an aversion to "one liners". When someone is having a direct back and forth in thread, one liners are not bad. They really arent. If that is the ONLY thing I have been posting, sure, that scummy! Do you REALLY think I have been posting one liners all game? 4. I thought sloosh fos'd me twice, but he didn't. end of story. Mannerkiss's post was hilarious in that it reminded me of what some vets might have done, like Kenpachi; respond utterly nonsensibly to someone's question. I did NOT say "btw this guy doesnt look town at all". I was responding to thread. You know, how town should be doing. 5. In the lines that you quoted, I did the following: 1. say that a no-lynch is bad, 2. say that MidnightGladius is scummy for going after a troll poster, 3. correct DoYouHas on a posting error he made in regards to me. I find it really offensive that you are saying that is BULLSHIT. Because it is not BULLSHIT. I am responding to stuff in the thread. Lastly, you are saying that you dont find me to be "OMG SCUM", but not pro-town, and this is the reason why I am most suspicious. You should never lynch people you merely find not pro-town if you can avoid it. You can avoid it right now. | ||
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On February 18 2012 23:41 trackd00r wrote: Good morning. Zelblade, I'm glad you are posting again @DYH: Sorry for ignoring your post regarding gumshoe. It's well... I can't explain the situation anymore. I know that he is town because otherwise, their teammates would have told him to shut up and calm down. I'm very afraid that gumshoe style of posting brings more confusion a chaos to the thread. From now, I'm not going to get into more of his drama if there isn't a very good reason to do so. @TKhawkins: There is a huge difference between a player who posts lots of content less posts and one who post a few but deep and content. For example blae000 hasn't posted a lot of times, but his posts are good. Ech and gumshoe, in the other hand... I still believe that ET is our best candidate for lynching. I've already given my explanations why, as well as others. He hasn't replied my post yet. Sorry, but I cant wait any longer. ##Vote: EchelonTee MannerKiss, please show up again with something new, or I'll consider switching my vote. The only points you make are that I didn't complete my case on midnightgladius, and that I post "flashy and aggressive". I addressed the latter already, and will be addressing midnight. Your case has no substance. | ||
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On February 19 2012 04:08 MidnightGladius wrote: I'm much more worried about EchelonTee, considering that he came back and still hasn't followed through on his original promise to make a case on me. He referred to your case instead of providing reasoning of his own, and then told me to "respond or die." Right. Personally, I think he's waiting for someone else to take the hint and push first, much as he prompted you. His behavior lacks accountability to the town and to himself, and that's far more damning to me than any "flashy or aggressive play" heuristic. I'm going to push you in a sec, don't worry. How has my behavior lacked accountability? I took massive hits going after gumshoe and sloosh, and now you. My reputation has been dragged through the mud. You are mispresenting me as trying to avoid responsibility, when I am taking a lot of it atm. | ||
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On February 19 2012 05:50 TKHawkins wrote: ##Vote: EchelonTee He rides the coat tails of other people's thoughts + Show Spoiler + On February 18 2012 09:54 EchelonTee wrote: you're hilarious. DoYouHas, I'm soft defending gumshoe now. I guess you were writing up your post without seeing the updates. We have the same thoughts though. Let's lynch MidnightGladius. Or DimmuKloK no seriously, I gtg. I love the activity though, so refreshing He then jumps along with jaj22's post and votes for Midnight. He would not be on my radar if it wasn't for that. I can't see a strong reason for the MidnightGladius vote especially with both the people voting for him not backing up their vote once it's questioned. Have I been riding the coattails of people's thoughts all game? That's kind of different from most people's viewpoints, that I have been aggresive and individualistic. I have not been sheeping on people at all; I made an analytical post that looked a lot like jaj's, so I was like oh cool we think the same. that means my thoughts on dimmuklok are not unfounded, and midnight's awkward response (will be clarifying this in a sec) prompted me to respond in kind. Posting analysis now. | ||
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On February 19 2012 06:27 Janaan wrote: At this point, it's looking like the lynch will be either Echelon or a no-lynch. I am still undecided as to which I prefer. On the one hand, I'm not really getting a scum read from Echelon, just a aggressive townie. On the other, we need information. I am usually in favor of lynching, since it provides information that is unavailable any other way. If there's a no lynch, the voting record is almost entirely useless for the day. For now, I'll vote. I just hope that it's not a huge mistake. ##Unvote: DimmuKlok ##Vote: EchelonTee Lynching your strongest scum read is good; however, your strongest scum read was dimmuklok (according to thread, if i'm not mistaken), not myself. You shouldn't force a lynch on someone that you think is an aggressive townie. sloosh already said this. I have no idea why sloosh would soft defend me. ...DYH you really think he's scum? | ||
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THE BIG BAD MIDNIGHTGLADIUS POST + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/846905-edewolf_01_large.png) deceptively nice looking, huh On February 17 2012 10:09 MidnightGladius wrote: It is such a pleasure to start another game: let the paranoia flow, and the productivity falter! Notes on the setup: Now that there are 15 starting players, the mafia:innocent ratio is rather uncommon, at 4:11, favoring the mafia, compared to 3  in Normal Mini Mafia I, 3 in Newbie Mini Mafia II, and 3 in Newbie Mini Mafia I. On the last occasion that the town faced unfavorable odds, Newbie Mini Mafia III, the lack of mafia power roles and relative abundance of innocent power roles helped to balance the setup, and I think that it will be the same here. Considering that the town gets a minimum of one extra mislynch compared to the standard setup, I think that the extra information will be especially helpful. Easy enough, right? No need for lurking, bashing, or spamming; I'm hoping for a great game. 1.Trust in Bayes! 1. This intial posted, as noted by a few others, is really unnecessary set up speculation. Compared to his first post in Newbie III here he also speculates on numbers, but the difference is in that post, he also posted a number of responses to the thread at large, trying to generate discussion and address people directly. In this game, he begins by sounding like he is contributing, when he isn't at all. That setup information is useless in a MINI, NORMAL, game. trying to look substantive, not doing so On February 18 2012 04:38 MidnightGladius wrote: gumshoe, I am having a really hard time reading your intentions, because you've basically done everything that the beginner's guides warn against: lying, posting lists without much content, derailing the thread, and making unclear points. If you're going to continue doing this, it's going to make the game a huge headache for the town. I don't think that you're mafia, but please look over the guides, and try to post more productively. On the topic of lynching or not: there is no reason not to lynch Day 1. It is the most reliable way for the town to go forward, as we can then begin looking at voting patterns and doing behavioral analysis. If we don't lynch, we're in basically the same spot during Day 2, except with one fewer innocent player. As to who we lynch, I say that we put pressure on lurkers and threaten them with a lynch if they don't contribute. It establishes a basic precedent on the quality of content that we expect out of certain players, and then we can take their future posts and make some contrasts. The common argument against lynching a lurker is that mafia will only have to pretend to contribute, or stay just above the least active players. I say that that's fully acceptable, as both of those behaviors will be red flags in the days to come, especially if the town keeps up and stays consistent with activity levels. With that said, I'm going to put my vote on MannerKiss. He has done nothing for us. MannerKiss, here's your opportunity to show us that you have an interest in helping us win this game. Who is your #1 target so far? 2. ##Vote: MannerKiss 2. I am always suspicious when a player posts really long posts that do not say much. Your 3 points can be summed up as such: gumshoe, you're being unclear, no-lynches are bad, and that we should pressure lurkers. You spend 3 fat paragraphs doing so, for no particular reason. This isn't inherently scummy, but you aren't contributing anything concrete otherwise! It's a combination of fluffy posting and non contribution that probably caught jaj's eye by now. Your pressure vote on mannerkiss is fairly standard, but is once again not a form of actual contribution. On February 18 2012 06:31 MidnightGladius wrote: Christ in buckets, it's FakePromise all over again :S Gumshoe's statistical analysis is misleading and flawed. I'd rather not clutter up this topic with the details, but in non-technical terms, he's making WIFOM assumptions in setting up the problem, not counting the distribution of outcomes properly, and I don't even know how what he means by: [redacted] At this point I'm going to have to assume malicious intent. Several of us have warned him about this, and he's continuing to try and derail the discussion. He's been spamming even more than before, using really bizarre logic to defend himself, and he still has yet to provide much in the way of content. In a way, this is worse than lurking, and it's way beyond what I would expect an innocent newbie to do :/ ##Unvote: MannerKiss ##Vote: Gumshoe 3..........this has to be a scum slip. FakePromise was a GREEN, TOWNIE last game. If you see another fakepromise, why are you voting him??? How is he being malicious, hes just making bad statistical analysis!! at this point you are pushing a terrible lynch. On February 18 2012 09:51 MidnightGladius wrote: Finally some excitement! Or are you just going to run some of that point-by-point analysis with the red numbers? 4. In this post, you lightly mock my PBPA with red analysis. As opposed to posting big and fluff like you were used to, you respond as such. Not inherently scummy, but: On February 18 2012 09:58 MidnightGladius wrote: So you're just going to vote me for no given reason, promise to post reasoning, nudge someone else to attack me, and then leave? You and jaj22 are both not making any sense to me. If you're going to mock my analysis, you shouldn't ceaselessly nag me for it. You constantly, from this point forth assert that I am being scummy for not posting a case on you. There was a case posted on you. You never directly addressed it!! Instead you try and lump and jaj together as "not making sense". This is AVOIDING the issue. SCUMMY. On February 18 2012 12:32 MidnightGladius wrote: My strongest other scumread lies on EchelonTee, for the reasons I mentioned earlier: His sequence of 1) being glad that there was activity 2) accusing me without a case 3) saying he would provide a case 4) telling DYH to support my lynch 5) not presenting a case 6) leaving the discussion seemed really suspicious to me. Three of your 6 posts say "because he didn't provide a case". You make it seem like there are 6 valid points on me, when you're only saying one thing: "he didnt post a case and left". I said REPEATEDLY I had to leave thread, while posting my thoughts on things. you're SERIOUSLY misrepresenting me. On February 18 2012 13:16 MidnightGladius wrote: As I said earlier, who I trust is on a need-to-know basis, and the people I trust are not necessarily the people I agree with. Steven's no lynch was a dumb idea, he said so, and we're moving on. He hasn't tried to dwell on the topic, and so I don't consider that suspicious. DimmKlok's switch? He hasn't even voted yet, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. He is rather quiet, though, and that leads into what I have to say about the lurkers: they have said nothing, so I have nothing to build a case from. If they keep quiet, they'll be modkilled and replaced, and we'll go from there. If they speak up, then I can look at them. Mislynching is gives away so much information in terms of voting patterns and people's posting behavior, for and against. Mafia night kills only generate WIFOM, and there's not much more to be said about that. Right now, we're dominating the thread, and not in a good way. It's creating long argumentative posts and stifling actual discussion as we just bash our heads against the wall. 5. You are neither dominating the thread, nor posting substantially; everything in this post is obvious stuff that you don't need to continually restate. I really dislike how you purport thread presence while not doing anything. You have accused MannerKiss (easy target lurker), gumshoe (crazy hapless noobie), and me (aggressive, attention grabbing fool). You only target things that require the minimum logic, while making it seem like you are posting well. You are acting completely and utterly scummy. My vote is already on you. Too bad I can't cap the post here with it. | ||
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1. MidnightGladius posting fluffy and uselessly, unlike his previous game. 2. Serious slipup: voting gumshoe, even though he compares him to FakePromise, WHO WAS GREEN!! 3. constantly accusing me only because I haven't provided a case. Now that I have, he should, logically, unvote me. | ||
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##Vote: MidnightGladius | ||
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On February 19 2012 06:22 slOosh wrote: And his response while I am typing this up seals the deal. He has no reads, and wants to lynch me but doesn't put any effort into it. Your last point here is a lot better than when I first examined it. Advocating a no-lynch is suspicious: he earlier said when he was FoSing me that lynching lurker was OK if it was our best option available; lynching lurker would be better than nolynching at this point, and DYH knows that, at the very least no-lynch is the worst option for town. There honestly has not been enough information on him yet for me to definitively say so, though. I'd have to read meta, and maybe even read his obs QTing of NMMI. If you want a better read on DYH, he posted a lot in that quicktopic. Do you think my read on midnight is bad? | ||
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On February 19 2012 07:34 Alderan wrote: Can someone please explain this sentiment? Am I missing something? To my case he responded: "I'm new, I'm new, I don't understand your case, I'm new." His play after my case: "I'm still on my gumshoe wagon, I don't know what to think about Midnight, I don't know what I think about Hawkin and Manner, and I'm too tired to give an opinion on Steveling" If someone can please point me to the direction of pro town play I would greatly appreciate it. I dont think that he responded WELL, but he made some slightly feasible responses. He is not being pro-town I agree, but not as scummy as Midnight imo. He's also not going to be home until Monday, so his lack of pro-town activity might not be malicious. Stating that you are new, a lot, is not necessarily scummy and is a potential defense, albeit a weak one. | ||
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On February 19 2012 07:52 gumshoe wrote: how long till day one ends? about 1 hour. | ||
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On February 19 2012 07:57 zelblade wrote: If possible can we also get a votecount? Thx clicky clicky It will always be on page 3 fyi. I am playing a game of Dota, but will respond to anything that people have to say. | ||
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On February 19 2012 07:59 slOosh wrote: MidnightGladius played totally weird day 1 when he was vig. I can understand the conclusions he came to, and maybe his difference in play is attributable to him not being a vig this time around. I'm not saying he isn't mafia. I'm saying that right now DoYouHas seems like a much better suspect. Midnight is at least following town logic, and I agree with the logic he uses (such as not wanting to share town reads right now. I don't agree with some conclusions he is coming to but the logic is sound). DoYouHas, however is not being logical at all, even though he demonstrates that he knows what town should do in NMMIII. Him not going for any solid reads is very suspicious, I agree. He posted a lot, early last game, even though he was blue, so he would have no reason to be so under the radar at the moment. If he seriously does not change his vote before deadline, then I will find that highly suspicious. His case on you is not solid enough to leave his vote there. However, there is no way enough momentum will be achieved to lynch him atm, and any attempt to do so would be a massive vote switch with not enough discussion. which is bad. MidnightGladius not wanting to share town reads is good logic, but that just means that he is skilled enough to know to say that. You say that he is trying to find scum, but I argue he is only looking for easy mislynches. | ||
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##Vote: DimmuKloK | ||
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On February 19 2012 08:19 gumshoe wrote: I have an aching feeling that Ech will flip green if we kill him ) : that opening move of his was almost as bad as mine and hes supposed to be good, I cant imagine him being coached by other mafia through all this. I hate it but its gonna have to be a no lynch unless gladeus says he eats babies or something. Maybe we can vote for one of the lurkers? Manner/michael? Zell? 1. i'm not good. why suggest this so openly. this is my 4th game playing. 2. as mattchew said, this could be a scumslip; he knows I would flip green and is planting this. After my aggressive opening towards gumshoe I dont know why he would support me as such. Thoughts? | ||
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Also, my apologies, I didn't mean to make the lynch so narrowly close. 63 min Dota 2 game, I'm telling you. 45 assist tidebringer | ||
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On February 19 2012 09:33 slOosh wrote: So ... the lynch is over and you two (EchelonTee & MidnightGladius) just drop the cases on each other? What do you guys think of each other? I still think he's scum. Going after Mattchew, Mannerkiss's replacement is consistent, so I can't fault him for that, but I can't agree with him wanting to vote him for 1. voting himself, aka OMGUS, and 2. being AWOL from thread with excuse. he could be using his phone you know. Or maybe he hasn't quite left yet. Point is, mattchew isn't being constructive but he not an autovote. especially because he's only posted a bit. However, I think examining the other happenings in the thread is a good idea. I could endlessly tunnel Midnight, but I need to get a good look at the bigger picture. Besides, you really think its strange that I'm addressing the lynch that just happened, over midnight? I was literally the last voter on him, I should be scrutinized for doing so. | ||
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On February 19 2012 09:42 slOosh wrote: I agree with you, but I wanted the information to be clear to everyone. For instance, I'm not sure what MidnightGladius' stance on you is. Fair enough, I do agree that it's a bit strange that Midnight did not want to pursue me further. 5 votes were on me, he had something rolling if he truly believed me scum. So, that DoYouHas character, eh. | ||
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On February 19 2012 09:53 zelblade wrote: @sl0osh No he didnt, all he posted on DYH is this clicky clicky DYH will have to respond to the happenings in the thread, so I am waiting for that. He is not my #1 scumread. @Midnight: I like to play Dota. Sorry. Didn't expect the game to take 71 mins (I checked it, it was actually 71 mins). Made it back in time though, and for the prior 2hours I did a lot of work. You cant lump me in with Mattchew; I've been posting plenty. | ||
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On February 19 2012 10:00 MidnightGladius wrote: I just meant to say that if you truly thought me to be scum, you could also have kept pushing up until the lynch deadline. Otherwise, the argument along those lines against me is baseless, and I'm kind of getting tired of it. This is exactly what I said in regards to you; could've kept on pushing me if you thought I was scum. .....hmph. that's weird. I'll respond to your earlier defense in a sec. Eating dinner. BBL. @DYH, thoughts on thread? Do you have any convictions now? @trackd00r, do you have a major scumread atm? | ||
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On February 19 2012 10:07 MidnightGladius wrote: You're missing the point again. That argument (should've pushed harder if truly convicted) is weak coming from either of us, as neither of us actually did it. It's the pot calling the kettle black  I know, that's why I said it was weird. On February 19 2012 08:13 MidnightGladius wrote: EchelonTee: 1. My first post in NMM3 responded to other posts because other people had posted. In this game, I was the second poster, concurrent with DYH. Your allegation is baseless. 2. Our posting styles are different. You dislike mine, and I dislike yours. Fine. What specifically have I not contributed to? What topics have I failed to address? What questions have I failed to answer? 3. I was referring to FP's terrible use of statistics (saying that 30% chance on a random lynch was good), not the fact that he was green. Anyone trying to use bad reasoning is anti-town in my eyes. 4. jaj22 has no valid case on me. If he did, he would be presenting one. I don't see it. Do you? Don't push him into taking shots at me that he clearly isn't willing to take. 5. gumshoe and I had been the only ones going back and forth for quite some time. He asked me some questions, I answered them, and suggested that we both back off for a bit to cool down and sleep on our thoughts. I happen to think that my reasoning is good, and you still haven't convinced me otherwise. If you think that I'm completely and utterly scummy, then you really need to take a step back and fully re-evaluate the claims that you're making and the evidence from which you're making them. 1. You could have said more, still. Perhaps you hadn't seen DYH's post yet, but still, considering how meaty your post was the other game, this one looks strange in comparison. In your previous game, there were only really 2-3 substantive posts to yours, so the difference is not solely because of that. 2. I don't dislike your play; I respect your play tbh. I just think you're being scummy this game. Our posting styles are not substantially different. We post fairly long at times, shorter when having direct conversation. What I don't like is that you are honing in on people that I, and others, have noted to be noobier players who are not inherently scummy. There have been a lot of other people posting in the thread that you could easily be suspicious of, but you pick the reads that take the least work. You haven't generated NEW content, which is why I say you are not contributing. I really don't like that you're trying to define this as myself simply disliking your posting style. You're avoiding the fact that you haven't really been contributing. 3. People trying to use bad reasoning is anti town, yes. However, you used this as justification to vote gumshoe. The fact that FakePromise was green is damning for you; I know that you didn't use the fact that FP was green, I am the one who is using that. If you know that nooby and anti-town=/=scum, you shouldn't have voted gumshoe. I don't see how you can deny this. The facts are laid out. This is not at all a loose point, as you claim my case is. 4. If jaj does not want to pursue you then w.e. His original case, I liked. 5. your back and forth only lasted for about 1-2 pages, 2-3 posts each. You really didn't go on and on about it that much, and haven't presented much reasoning other than "acting obviously anti-town". This is a newbie game, you realize. I don't expect all townies to be pro-town. Can other people look at my #2 and #3 and honestly say that my case is baseless? @gumshoe, I'd advise you slow down your posting and try to be more coherent; activity is good, but you're starting to fill up the thread unnecessarily with a LOT of randomness. Analytical posts by other people have been buried. Just post when you've consolidated your thoughts. | ||
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DYH/trackdoor please answer my questions when you have the chance. | ||
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On February 20 2012 05:29 TKHawkins wrote: Thoughts on EchelonTee So he thinks Midnight voting Gumshoe is a terrible lynch push and comparing Gumshoe to FakePromise is a scum slip. Oh so pushing Gumshoe back into the center of attention. Ech thinks Gumshoe could be scum now. So that means Midnight's push to lynch him wasn't terrible. So your justification for going after Midnight has gone away right? Nope. My questioning of gumshoe's post does not = "I think he could be scum now"; it means I am scrutinizing gumshoe's post. Though I believe gumshoe is more likely to be town, I don't blindly presume so; anyone could be town/mafia, so when someone posts something I find strange, I will point it out. I fully think midnight's push to lynch him is terrible. I will not be back before the deadline, here are my thoughts on the thread: I believe Janaan is town; his response to pressure sounds very genuine, and his uncertainty regarding the vote yesterday did not seem malicious to me. If he was Mafia, he would know who is actually town, and could put his vote down on someone and put some hashed out lines on said person to advance a mislynch. Remember; though no lynches are good for mafia, mislynches are even better, and I feel that if Janaan was duplicitious, he could've done something more dastardly. My scum list atm is (in order of certainty top to bottom): MidnightGladius - I've said so why at various points; he wasn't really under heavy pressure last game so I can't speak to meta, but I feel that his responses to my pressure don't come from a town perspective. TKHawkins - View on Midnight is just "I can't get a read on him", and his case on me, when he voted me, was by far the worst. DoYouHas - From what I can tell, he hasn't tried to put himself out there in the thread, like he did in Newbie III. He doesn't seem willing to push anyone too hard, though he could have if he wanted to. His only case is on sloosh, and I don't find his case very good. People to look at. Steveling - This is more of a gut thing; if I survive I'll look into it more. His early game was kind of weird, but his large posts on gumshoe actually are not bad. Gumshoe - I've said a few times that I think he is town, due to his obvious noobiness. His posting though, is quite crazy. If he flipped scum I would not be surprised. Am I 100% sure? No. But if I die, these are the people I would look at. Of course, don't use dead people's words as evidence of people's guilt, just as a guide to look into things further. | ||
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....I wonder if Mafia is trying to get me to push a mislynch onto MG. | ||
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I don't want to WIFOM myself out of a potential scum lynch, but shooting jaj, the guy who started the case on Midnight, and leaving me alive, the guy who wants to push MG, seems like really sloppy Mafia play to me. basically, if MG is scum, shooting jaj incriminates him more. Can you address my previous case on MG, and tell me whether or not you think it is valid? You previously stated that you do not think MG is scum. | ||
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Mattchew, you sound A LOT like you did in Werewolves, and not at all like you sounded in TL Mafia L. Have you simply shifted your style, or are you scum? | ||
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On February 20 2012 11:32 DoYouHas wrote: My town reads are: trackd00r, ET, gumshoe, slOosh, and blae000. This leaves a pool of 8 people in which I think all mafia are present. That is where I am looking now, and that is who I am building cases on. ....seriously? you know better than this DYH. The cases that you put forth better be damn good. | ||
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On February 20 2012 11:28 TKHawkins wrote: That's the definition of WIFOM logic. Best not to over think it. As for your suspicions against me because I was against the Midnight vote. I couldn't get a good read on Midnight, and neither can a lot of people. The only people who did have a read on him were reading him as scum. That fact alone is odd and suspicious. I'm not sure Midnight is town, I'm just more comfortable following my own reads then blindly following somebody else's. Alright then, do you have any read at present? Are you still on either me or Janaan? | ||
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On February 20 2012 12:06 Mattchew wrote: I can't comment on ongoing games i dont think so its kinda unfair to bring that up. I do have a response to this. I am playing different then mafia L because this crowd is much less intimidating and much smaller. Hmm... I don't know, in L you were more vocal, and your Mason-Mayor plan was pretty flashy. In this game, with less intimidating/less people, it would be a lot easier for you to speak your mind clearly, without being all lurky and posting in a short way. Are we allowed to discuss Mattchew's previous, on-going game, Werewolves II, since he has already died in that game, or is this against the rules? | ||
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On February 20 2012 12:08 MidnightGladius wrote: I'm really not sure where to go from here. I have a solid read on Alderan as mafia, but if no one's even going to consider what I've been saying, then I'm going to stop wasting your time. Hopefully, my mislynch will be enough to convince you that you've been going about this the wrong way all along. .....man I hope to god I'm not WIFOM-ing myself out of going after you. DYH's attack on you makes me like him less. Blae was going to be on my scum list, but since he was getting replaced I figured I'd let his new guy post more. I'll look into Alderan, I don't know how I missed him. Probably because he was lurking. By the end of the first 24 hour period (we have roughly 21 hours until then), everyone should post who they want to vote. Anyone who doesn't is hurting town, putting it into the same position as we were in D1. | ||
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On February 20 2012 11:59 EchelonTee wrote: Alright then, do you have any read at present? Are you still on either me or Janaan? I asked you this last page. | ||
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oh my bad, I'm stupid. carry on. On February 20 2012 12:33 gumshoe wrote: That said If both Sloosh and DYH are town and we lynch DYH and then lynch Sloosh because DYH came up green, we are that much closer too losing. If DYH flips town, it does not mean that slOosh should be condemned, it just means that he was wrong, which happens. on Alderan! On February 19 2012 11:25 Alderan wrote: Damn. I stand by my play though, I think the reads were pretty clearly scum. Reminder: When you are being accused, STAY ACTIVE, the more you give us the more we can find out about you. If you are town and you stay active generally this will be identified. I think everyone needs to focus on the hour running up to the vote. There was a lot of action and activity that probably didn't get %100 attention. I'm to check out the voting records, specifically the correlation between who came off of MG and ET and on what basis. Alderan stated that "when you are being accused, stay active", yet when he is accused by MG, he still has not stated anything. He's probably just away from thread, but he needs to address MG's case ASAP. His filter is not looking good at all. | ||
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DimmuKlok (2): Janaan, Gumshoe Then, DimmuKlok (2): Gumshoe, Alderan Finally, Dimmuklok (9): Alderan, Janaan, trackd00r, MG, zelblade, jaj22, sloosh, TKHawkins, ET Janaan and Gumshoe's votes were pressure based. IMO, scum often are more often the pushers of bandwagons, rather than the instigators. In this case, that's Alderan IMO; he puts his case out there, waits until other people start the voting, then climb on board to push the lynch forward. I've done this a few times in the past, as scum. Also, people who try to tip the end of the voting line to guarantee a lynch are under suspicion. That would be me and TKHawkins. If you think I'm suspicious for doing so I wouldn't blame you, but I had previously indicated suspicion on Dimmuklok, so my vote switch wasn't motivated solely due to, while TKHawkins had never revealed any qualms with Dimmuklok. His vote sealed the death; this isn't a massively incriminating factor, but it is something that should be noted. There is assuredly some scum in who voted for DimmuKlok. I would be more willing to lynch Alderan or THawkins, than DYH, until DYH posts reads/responses to the current thread situation. | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 20 2012 13:33 slOosh wrote: P.S. Get off Alderan's case. He said he is working and will be busier during the weekends. Let him respond. I will wait for Alderan to respond; you should let DYH respond as well, at least until the psuedo deadline at 16 PST tomorrow. | ||
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On February 20 2012 13:11 gumshoe wrote: Sloosh, please consider if DYH is town, well mislynch again, than probally lose someone like Track, and the mafia will probably lynch you tomorrow for causing DYH's death, I repeat, unless sloosh starts doing scummy shit, I will not allow mafia to mislynch on the basis of a wrong read. If DYH flips green, it DOES NOT mean that sloosh is scum, and I will not let people argue as such. | ||
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On February 20 2012 14:00 slOosh wrote: I have let him respond twice 1 and 2 He does nothing to redeem himself in his defense. Here are my posts on his defense 1 and 2 respectively. I gave him ample time and opportunity to defend himself and he has failed. There is no reason to continuously give him chances. I end it on this note- ...how is it that you weren't shot last night? ##Vote: DoYouHas | ||
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On February 20 2012 15:01 GMarshal wrote: rgTheSchworz replaces Blae000 running low on replacements :o TheSchworz has some games on him, should be able to make a read. sleeping. remember gaiz, pls post your vote before 16 PST, Monday, a day early. | ||
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I already put out some words regarding the Dimmuklok mislynch, take a look. That's why I want to look into Alderan and TK after. of course I also have other people in mind, but there is no need to post distractions from said topics, unless I fear impending death. From phone. in school for another 7ish hours | ||
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What is a case based off of confirmation bias? Alderan, zelblade was still voting for me at some point, you're picking at technicalities if you're saying zel did not vote swap from me; your point in that section was that Mafia would have been less likely to be voting me if i'm scum, so you lightly discredited him based off misrepresented information. You also fail to acknowledge your role in the Dimmuklok lynch, while I directly pointed out my own role. I find that weird. Also weird is that you state "I'll only argue someone I think is town if they getting lynched", when MG was directly adding about DYH, who our being lynched. Obviously you posted your opinion later, but your response is largely "I think sloosh is wrong", not "I think DYH is town". Don't like your posting one bit. Still from phone, still at school. | ||
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MG has a point, but only slightly. Not mentioning someone is not absolutely tell, but it is DEFINITELY a factor. In my previous, newbie-style games as scum, I barely talked to my teammates in game unless I was busing them, or lightly agreeing with them. Of those 4, I'd bet my left foot that there are more than one scum in there, but not necessarily all 4. Alderan, I'd like it if you refocus'd on the case at hand. Arguing sloosh's case on DYH is fine and all, but you're borderline using chainsaw defense (attack someone's attacker to defend someone) here. If you don't want to talk about how DYH is town to you, then talk about who you think is scum, especially from Mattchew's recent post. If it's sloosh then have at it. I agree that the case on DYH is too slippery. The way I see it, all of the pro-town players agreed with sloosh, while the scum rode the happy fun coattails of sloosh's work. I do not think that ruling out DYH is a good idea in the slightest (could be getting bused), but I'm going to post a larger case on TKHawkins in a sec. | ||
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WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM TODAY NO ONE ELSE. Why? If you do a side by side comparison of DYH's posts in each game, there's a really big gulf. I really don't know how DYH could have even brought himself to bring up a "meta" arguement against slOosh, because the meta against him is way, way more damning. Look at the first 5ish posts from each game: From last game: + Show Spoiler + On January 25 2012 15:24 DoYouHas wrote: There is no reason our first lynch should be random. We need to use the threat of lynching to put pressure on lurkers and suspicious people. This needs to start today. If we seriously consider a no lynch today all we do is encourage passive play. We should be creating opportunities to gain information and put pressure. The worst thing we can give the mafia is time. On January 26 2012 03:20 DoYouHas wrote: From the general tone of the posting so far I agree that today we are more likely to get mafia by lynching someone suspicious rather than a lurker. If people come up with better ways of getting lurkers active I am all ears. As for things I have looked at so far, I am not going to reiterate points made on MidnightGladius and zelblade but here are a couple of people on the lurker list whose first posts were very similar and I did not like. What bothers me in the first post is the second half. He is making the statement "That seems scummy." but unnecessarily longer and strangely worded. In his second post he tones down the strange wording a bit but more troubling is his espousing of a wait and see style. We need to be making discussion happen, not just letting it happen. This caught my attention after I had been looking at balt11t. It is almost the exact same post. Lengthy substitute for scummy, wait and see attitude (though even worse this time), and pointing to Fakepromise's questionable agreement with a random lynch. On January 26 2012 08:01 DoYouHas wrote: I believe zelblade is our best lynch option. Just look at what he did when thrust into the spotlight. He has been apologizing and clarifying posts (which were already pretty clear) ever since spl0osh criticized his second post. Instead of using the spotlight to voice his own suspicions or convince us of his innocence, he has tried to move out of the spotlight as quickly and quietly as possible, while avoiding offending anyone. While his initial posts weren't particularly scummy, his responses have been nothing but suspicious. ## Vote: zelblade On January 27 2012 06:17 DoYouHas wrote: I am willing to set aside my suspicion of zelblade for today in order to make my vote more relevant. As for the CosmosXAM vs FakePromise lynching, I find myself at a loss. Let me explain. CosmosXAM seems more scummy to me than FakePromise for a few reasons. Not only is this a weak first post that focuses on a settled issue, his second sentence says that even if we find scummy things in his posts, it is our fault for pressuring him into it. He shortly follows this with 3 questionable statements in his second post. First, he goes after FakePromise. This is reasonable, possibly bandwagoning, and easy. I expect someone who has been lurking for a full day could find something suspicious to mention that hasn't been repeated so often. Second, he overreacts to Chocolate's placing a vote on him and lashes back purely based on that. Third, he points us to this being his first game and how rarely he will be able to post. So not only should we not expect many posts from him, but when they come we shouldn't expect them to have quality. I don't really take issue with his third post and 4-5 have no content so I'll move to FakePromise. I don't have anything new to say on the things FakePromise has done wrong. I simply agree that his actions make for a very poor defense and he definitely is not pro-town so far. I do not agree with zarepath's defense of FakePromise. To me, it is equally likely for the explanations of 'no mafia would behave in the way FakePromise has / no mafia team would allow FakePromise to behave in the way he has' and 'FakePromise has played this first round very poorly' to be true. It is not out of the question. Especially since most of us are new players. In spite of CosmosXAM being the scummier candidate, I believe we gain more information for day 2 if we lynch FakePromise. Not only can we start to look at people who seem to have jumped on the bandwagon but we would also gain some insight into zarepath's motivations. I am torn between the scummier candidate and having more information. At the moment I am leaning towards CosmosXAM. In my real life mafia experience bumbling defenses like FakePromise's tend to be town who don't know how to act under pressure. I'm trusting that experience for now. On January 27 2012 10:10 DoYouHas wrote: Be very careful with that assumption. From the perspective of zarepath being scum I think there are only 3 possible likelihoods. 1. We lynch FakePromise, he flips town, and zarepath looks good for defending him. 2. We lynch CosmosXAM, he flips scum, and zarepath looks good for being the first real accuser. 3. We lynch CosmosXAM, he flips town, and zarepath looks the same. I left out the possibility of FakePromise flipping scum because zarepath's own actions make it very unlikely. Just look at the statements laced through his posts. If anything zarepath has been trying to get us to focus on who supported and attacked whoever is lynched. This makes it seem very unlikely to me that he would adamantly defend someone he knows is mafia when that person holds little to no sway over the town and is still likely to be lynched. It is far more likely that he has set himself up to defend an innocent or bus a fellow scum. He gains favor in the town regardless of the way the lynch goes. So, to counter your point, if zarepath flips red I think it is far more likely that FakePromise is town and it will cast even more suspicion on CosmosXAM. From this game: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:51 DoYouHas wrote: The point is not to lynch lurkers, it is to lynch scum. If a lynching a lurker is the best option we have near a deadline, then by all means, let's do it. But policy lynching is just a terrible idea. I am already looking suspiciously at the ET for espousing it. FOS: EchelonTee On February 17 2012 13:31 DoYouHas wrote: ET, instead of jumping on every little inconsistency you find in order to go blow for blow with sl0osh, why not just make a note of it and present a more complete case later. Bickering can be useful, but I fear this is going to turn into Toast vs prplz. sl0osh, I dislike your attack on ET. Pointing out that both town and mafia can have motivation for the same action just looks to me like he is covering his bases so he can't be accused of not considering all the options later. And his calling you out was perfectly founded. You were an active poster in NMM3 who looked towards putting quality in the thread. If you suddenly went lurker on us it wouldn't be a stretch to think that you were organizing the mafia in their qt. On February 17 2012 13:56 DoYouHas wrote: I want MannerKiss to chime in. Let those opinions fly! Who looks scummy to you and why? On February 17 2012 14:05 DoYouHas wrote: Then allow me to do it again. Has nothing caught your eye so far? Nothing from gumshoe or ET or sl0osh or any of the other ppl? On February 18 2012 04:19 DoYouHas wrote: I think it is about time we start talking about who to lynch today. With the scheduling problems mentioned by a few people, I don't think we can wait too much longer. My current list of people I'm consdering voting for is sl0osh and MannerKiss sl0osh, he overreacted badly to a perfectly fine way of calling him out. Everything in his exchange was just an extended version of OMGUS (attacking the person who attacked you only because he attacked you). I think it is too easy to dismiss sl0osh's failure to see the reason behind ET's actions as his standard confirmation bias. Not acknowledging that ET's initial reference to him was purely to get him talking, not to frame him as mafia. I also thought that whole post about ET's tone was just a big pot of confirmation bias. MannerKiss, his fairly immediate response to me calling him out told me he was paying attention to the thread IE, actively lurking. The two explanations for which would be a new townie unsure of what to post, or a new scum unsure of what to post. The one-liner back at me and his lack of a response to me trying to call him out a second time make me feel it is more likely the latter. Notice anything different? In his last game as Townie-Detective, he posts MASSIVE amounts of content, reads on MULTIPLE people (scum reads, not town reads), and tries to keep town atmosphere productive. Just look at those blocks of text. In this game, he isn't even CLOSE to this amount of content. He starts with the same "don't lynch lurker" sentiment, sure, but this only shows that he knows what is the correct thing to say. In my first game as scum, it was very easy for me to say "policy lynching is bad, people who say it's good are scum", as DYH did here. Instead of being analytical and open, all he does is try to draw out MannerKiss, and present a bad case on slOosh. Why do I think this is a bad case? He says that slOosh "overreacted", in an OMGUS manner; I do not think this at all. I prodded at slOosh, and he prodded back HARD. That screams confident, asshole townie to me, not scum at all. That DYH pushed a case on slOosh based off "meta" is laughable... what, that slOosh is willing to argue and defend himself = scum? Note that these posts end around page 10-11 for both games; at the same point in time, relatively DYH has a huge disparity in the amount of content compared to last game, and this is only in the early game. At this point all he has done is shadowed my opinions on everything, which I find hilarious; as he has already made slOosh his enemy, all I can guess is that he is trying to follow my reads in the hope that I will agree with him (aka MG=scum, TK=scum, Janaan=town). Even in the cases he make, he brings up pretty shallow things like MG's reaction to the ET vs. Sloosh debacle, or that TK=scum because he thinks Janaan is scum. Wat. DYH defense, and his cases just sound completely half-hearted and fake. This cannot be the same DYH from last game, or even the DYH from the NMMI obs qt. It's a scum DYH, I'm certain. | ||
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On February 21 2012 12:04 trackd00r wrote: I'm afraid that after lynching DYH, regardless of he flips green or red, we might be in the same situation that we were on day 1, with no clear cases or too many that could risk a no-lynch. There are a number of avenues we could pursue, as laid out by multiple people in this thread. Mattchew's scum-team-list is an obvious one, my scum reads last night also, also other people's reads on others, etc. We have a lot of options at this point, but we should not get derailed from the focus of today's lynch. Which is DYH. | ||
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While I don't like that Mattchew isn't posting his reasoning, I don't find that to be incriminating as of yet. I feel that you are simply going after people that are not voting for DYH at this moment; there is plenty of reason to think that a scum is busing DYH. | ||
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@TKHawkins, if you could kill anyone besides DYH right now, who would that be? | ||
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On February 21 2012 16:07 Janaan wrote: I think it's just because of the time, most people aren't going to be very active right now. I'm barely awake as it is. As for Schworz, I don't think he's posted even one post yet, it's possible he doesn't even know he's playing yet. Hopefully he starts posting soon, though, and doesn't come in right before the deadline. I know, I'm not implying any duplicity at the lack of activity; I'd just like it if anyone who is currently reading the thread, to post their thoughts on it. You included, of course. | ||
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Your words on mattchew are more interesting however. something to note: Steveling's response to Mattchew's case: Best thing since Klondike Bars. My response: I like his font (aka I think there are at least 2 scum in his list.) Mostly Everyone else: Mattchew is a scumbag, faker, liar. Kind of a large disparity in that. You guys all really don't think the "scum don't interact with each other" thing is, at the very least, a tell that should be looked into? | ||
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Sleeping now; I expect to see a post from rG and TKHawkins when I get back. | ||
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On February 22 2012 04:33 Mattchew wrote: btw you answered your own accusation here... he was a dt in the last game... he had more information that game Are you even thinking? He posted those reads and all that content on D1, BEFORE he made any DT checks. He did absolutely nothing D1 this game except light, ineffectual pressure. It's not solely meta. DYH just.. hasn't been very pro-town at all and it makes me kind of sad. And while it's endearing for him to post that "you have to kill me today", he could've defended himself effectively if he had it in him, as in if he KNEW he was town. Mattchew, can we stop the town vs. town hate fest that is about to explode? Don't tell us to shut the fuck up, you're needlessly being an ass. We have to work together to get shit done, because it's assured that scum team will be working together to make us hate each other. That said, I stand by my support of your scum list. I find it funny that everyone disagrees with it; gotta be scum team saying "oh shit" in QT. at school. will post bigger later. where the hell is rG? | ||
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DYH=red - Sloosh "SEE??? now we kill mattchew that scummy douche" DYH=green - Mattchew "SEE??? now we never listen to sloosh and ET again, meanwhile scum team will yell and scream at me and prevent me from getting my lynches through" | ||
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@DYH, I have used this game to experiment as well. That got me 5 votes D1, a few hours before the deadline. But I was willing to fight for myself, because I knew the cases on me were wrong and about to mislynch a townie, and I rectified concerns on me. =/ If you were town this game, I'd expect better. | ||
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On February 22 2012 08:20 TKHawkins wrote: Sadly I was misinformed. The bandwagon seems pretty set on me (and continues to be shocked that I'm not here to defend myself better while I'm at work and unable to post). I'll be writing up all my reads and cases and posting them at/near the end of Night 2 to avoid my posts having any WIFOM impact on the night actions. why are you quoting Greymist's pre-game statement? Forum mafia has 500x the analysis, and if you think this game is troll-filled compared to SC2 mafia... then I don't know man. I'm saying this regardless of alignment; if you're not enjoying this game that makes me sad =/ I disagree that it is "INCREDIBLY dangerous" what Mattchew is doing. It would be if he was fixating on one, and only one person, and refused to listen to anything else. A group of 4 is plenty to work around. Him going after his reads with confidence is not anti-town in the slightest. | ||
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On February 22 2012 09:07 Mattchew wrote:  | ||
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On February 22 2012 09:11 TKHawkins wrote: Him looking at everything with rose tinted glasses though is. Also, yeah, I'm not enjoying this game because I'm getting lynched because people believe a guy who is posting an illogical case and who is insulting me. What about DYH's case on you? | ||
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On February 22 2012 10:08 Steveling wrote: Anyway, I wanna hear what sloosh and echellon have to say about DYH flipping green and how that affects their views if at all. MG TKHawkins trackd00r Alderan GG | ||
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On February 22 2012 11:23 Mattchew wrote: meta is a bad way to make cases... you all don't listen to normal logic, so I have to post crazy to get your attention... in the future think to yourself, if I take my meta read out of this case is it still a good case. Because the answer to DYH was no.. and this is not hindsight this is forsight Suggestion 1 for DYH being a bad lynch Suggestion 2 for DYH being a bad lynch Suggestion 3 for DYH being a bad lynch sloosh is town... he just tunneled really really hard on what he thought was a good case because it worked well for him in the last game Alderan is town because there is literally nothing scummy about his play at all. If we are right about the other 3 being scum theres no way in hell they would let him (or he would) post anything about the switch from ET to Dimmu, which he did you could have made this post, instead of the series of smug as shit posts you made. meta should always be considered, but this is an opinion thing I suppose. But even if you take away the meta, DYH's D1 was not good/scummy. You're simply going to respond that "no, you're wrong I'm right, you only considered meta" but whatever. If I wanted to lynch purely off meta then I'd be on you more. Alderan is the one I'm least sure of, of the four I posted, so I'll defer that. I'll post more on the other 3 later. Got midterms and shiz for now. For whatever blues out there; there are some pretty obvious things to be done. | ||
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On February 22 2012 11:46 Janaan wrote: Suggestion for everyone. We have to drop the discussion of whether the DYH lynch was good or not. It doesn't really matter. It's done, and now we have to put it behind us and focus on finding scum. agreed. sloosh where you at? | ||
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because he's my homosexual life partner. you got me. why do you think I'm asking for sloosh. -.- because he should've commented on the thread happenings. I don't NEED him any in any way shape or form. I'm curious of his opinion. Sort of like how I'm curious of TKHawkin's opinion on stuff (when I asked him who would he kill besides DYH), though TK never responded to me. I guess he's replacing out. Meh. TL Mafia is srs bizness I spose. TKHawkins if you haven't rage quit already, who would you want to take out? trackd00r? Mattchew? Mattchew's posting is fine with me, but you have to remember this is a newbie game and that people are going to get pissed as shit if you post that way. I mean look at my early game; I was only being mildly aggressive and people were calling for my lynch. Just scale it back so less people RQ, yah? You haven't lynched any mafia yet. Yeah mafia is a RPing game, but you should probably RP someone that town has a reason to listen to. aka, calm the fck down and let's get constructive yah | ||
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On February 22 2012 11:47 trackd00r wrote: Ok, looking how things are going now, it looks that I'm going to be lynched the next day. Meh, TKHawkins was the one who was getting lined up to be lynched, not you. This is a weird post to make. I really have to get out of this thread. I will post substantially before the night is over. | ||
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On February 22 2012 13:13 Mattchew wrote: how have i not been constructive can you be any more defensive? I didn't say MATTCHEW HAS NOT BEEN CONSTRUCTIVE, I said "LET'S get constructive". What does that mean? it means we all calm the fuck down and work through this together. You know, when you say things like "hey sloosh remember when I said I was right. hey et remember when I was right", you realize you are inciting needless conflict right? You realize that Mafia isn't an individual game; you have to work with us to get lynches through. It's not a game of "here are my reads I am right other people are stupid yayyyy". Is what I am saying really so biting and out there that you feel the need to keep on responding to me with one-liners? I am slowly starting to think you're full of shit. Because you're being needlessly disruptive. You sound sort of like TheToast, but with only the stubborn ass-holery, not the accountability/openness. I'm like 95% sure I want to lynch MG tomorrow now. | ||
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Then he posts "the analysis post formerly known as GOD", and completely forgets every other opinion he had. Yet MG is now on his scumlist again. But furthest down the list. There's some fishy crap going on. why do I want sloosh? Because he's the one of the few who I can count on to talk rationally. There are a few others I can rely on too, but I'm not going to out them openly so that Mafia can pick them off. I'm going to do a full review of the game by tomorrow's deadline. This night is critical. | ||
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10 minutes before dead time. Obviously town: EchelonTee - asshole aggressive slOosh - aggresive, accepts responsibility Mattchew - asshole aggressive (i didn't actually think u were scum before, was hoping me being suspicious on you would keep you from being shot for one night) gumshoe - newbie who is progressively getting better, has gone for peacekeeping efforts, not needless confusion probably town: Janaan - was part of the first day shenanigans, but his reactions to things thus far seem pure Alderan - i dunno i thought he was scum but I'll defer to you guys. that point about him posting the vote switching is a prty pro-town thing to do. Also didn't want to lynch DYH, and me criticizing him going for Dimmuklok is prty hypocritical, since I was on Dimmuklok too. Unsure, my back up list: Steveling - this is still gut rgTheSchworz - lurky, and blae's posting was sort of suspicious. huge list posting, tried to go after me zelblade - I think he is less scummy than the others scum MG - please lynch him tomorrow trackd00r - or him I guess TKHawkins - eh dunno, seems rly scummy but I dont know why scum would throw in the towel so hard | ||
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On February 23 2012 07:58 slOosh wrote: Good plan as long as we don't strictly adhere to it. Its success is based off every one of your town reads to be correct, and while I generally agree with your town reads, I want us to be mindful of the possibility of a misread. man speaks the truth. If it comes down to lylo, the obvious townies will all probably be dead, so it'll be up to whoever is still alive to reassess everything with an open mind. | ||
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On February 23 2012 09:01 Janaan wrote: Now that I can't be roleblocked, to prevent ya'll wasting time making a case on me... I'm shooting Midnight tonight as Vig. ILU <3 I knew u were town :D | ||
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I'm going to do a bit of logic/cataloging. As said before, people I think are MOST LIKELY town (could be re-evaluted later on): sloosh, myself, gumshoe, mattchew. That leaves 6 people I where scum could be hiding: zelblade, steveling, trackd00r, TKHawkins, rgTheSchworz, Alderan zelblade: votes me and DYH D1, thinks trackd00r, mattchew, and TKHawkins are Mafia. Thinks blae(rG), Alderan are town. steveling: advocates lynch lurker/no-lynch first day, put down cases on gumshoe/DYH/trackd00r. Thinks mattchew's case is great. trackd00r: targets steveling early, votes me D1, lightly targets TKHawkins and Alderan. Thinks Mattchew is town. TKHawkins: FOS's Janaan, case on myself was the sheepiest, thinks mattchew is dangerous. Says blae is "very pro-town" blae/rG: posts big case on me, rG believes "scum are in active". By far the lurkiest poster in the thread. Alderan: posts initial case on Dimmuklok, talks about the vote swap, believes TKHawkins, sloosh, and trackd00r are mafia. If the scum team included trackd00r, it would mean that he is being bused, as at least 3/6 of the people here think that he is scum. I wouldn't lynch him today, at the very least. The same goes for TKHawkins. TK might even be modkilled, so we should leave him for now. Of the people available, I would be most comfortable lynching zelblade, or rgTheSchworz. Why rG? The only opinions on him have been "he's pro town/should post a bit more". He hasn't gotten the same scrutiny that MannerKiss got D1. | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 23 2012 22:36 Mattchew wrote: hey sloosh... do these 2 posts read the same to you I had a strange feeling during both of these... they both look townie because of their "helpfulness and organization" but really anyone reading the thread should know this right? they also both try to buddy you Scum Bromancipate from last newbie game ET Post from this game Probulous posted the list in that game and didn't really comment on it. I posted my list and put some words on it. The reason I posted the list is because this game became a clusterfuck after last night's flip. This day is pretty weird. I can't help but feel that we are being played. I see two possible scenarios that we are in: 1. Mattchew is town - 2 or 3 of the remaining people from his original list are scum. People's reactions to him are largely due to their fear that Mattchew has exposed them. DYH seemed to indicate that he largely agreed with Mattchew. 2. Mattchew is scum - In this case, the team would likely be something like Mattchew, Blae/rG, Alderan, Steveling. The only reason why I think this could be the case is because something just feels fishy as hell. It might be dumb to consider these gut instincts at MYLO, but I can't shake the feeling that this game is heading towards complacency. When scum have a stranglehold over town activity, this sort of lackadaisical feeling takes hold, as it has done now. Mattchew's flashy post does remind me of TL L, but I don't know. I don't want to think Mattchew is scum, but there's just something unsettling. If MG had flipped red I wouldn't have any qualms. All the players in the game currently are pushing towards "lynch TKHawkins and trackd00r. not TK i guess since he might be modkilled but definitely trackd00r. and don't worry that nearly everyone wants trackd00r dead, Mafia is probably busing". Because that worked so well concerning the DYH lynch huh. I feel that trackd00r is the wrong play. ...Honestly I think I want to lynch Steveling. His response to mattchew's post (regardless of Mattchew's alignment) was strange; he was all like "SHIT WE WON THE GAME WITH THIS GAIZ", which was pretty contrary to how the general town felt towards it. His D1 was not good (advocate no lynch, initial post is a Lol@gumshoe). I feel that all game he has only put down reads after suspicion was pretty well established. And no one has really addressed Steveling all game. I feel like he has slipped by unnoticed while having an apperance of contribution. ##Vote: Steveling | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 24 2012 03:55 Alderan wrote: This is what worries me, its seems almost too easy... I feel everyone can agree that TK and Track are the scummiest in the game right now, but the thought of it being just bad town play still lingers. We really need them to come and be active. especially track. like, dood, there are some people who think u might not be scum, if you throw in the towel then ur pretty much done =/ Btw, just because I said "mattchew could be scum, team would then likely be matt/rg/ald/steve" doesn't mean that I think all of you are scum, you included. It's just another possibility that no one has seemed to consider. | ||
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EchelonTee
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EchelonTee
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meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta nonsense. The difference is that when I buddied to prplhz, I specifically avoided making any comment on his alignment until he was a confirmed townie. Not only is sloosh not a confirmed townie, but me and him had a BACK AND FORTH early game that made people think I was scum. Why the hell would I do that as scum? You're definitely scum now Mattchew. Thanks for clearing that up for me, and grats for not voting me even though ur making a huge accusation. ##Unvote: Steveling ##Vote: Mattchew | ||
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EchelonTee
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You are considering whether or not to tell me LOL YOU'RE SCUM and go balls to the wall, or to say LOL I WAS JK LETS BE FRIENDS. It has been about 1.5 hours, and you are definitely in thread. The correct, town response, would have been to say "LoL ur just using OMGUS, I'm obviously not scum". | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 24 2012 08:26 gumshoe wrote: Oh and on the severe off chance that either sloosh or ech are scum, thanks to you guys for teaching me to never trust anyone ever again. If I was scum, gumshoe, I 95% would've mislynched you D1, unless DYH stopped me. If sloosh is scum then I will cry. like, bawling, on the floor. Will comment on sloosh's/Mattchew's post in a bit, eating dinner. | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 24 2012 08:31 Mattchew wrote: I was actually in class from 3:15 to 5:15 EST in Mahwah NJ, and then drove 50 minutes home Bridgewater, NJ and posted from my phone at the tail end of my commute around 6:05pm. ok I believe you that you were away from thread, you don't need to tell me the exact details of your personal life :p | ||
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EchelonTee
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On February 24 2012 09:41 Alderan wrote: This Mattchew bandwagon is cute and all, but quite frankly ET and Sloosh haven't you done enough OMGUS tunnel tunnel town lynches?DYH is the most obvious example, but you both had made cases against MG (which in my mind is why Janaan shot him). Sure Mattchew's posts are abrasive, but definitely not scummy. Apparently neither of you can distinguish between the two (see DYH). I can not fathom how you would vote for a case like that over someone like TK who has all but admitted to being scum.... 1. mattchew "bandwagon"? There's only 2 people voting him. It's the opposite of a bandwagon; no one is willing to jump on it. Whether it's because all of the "townies" who previously thought Mattchew was scum have all changed their opinion, or because he is scum and the team can't pile on like they did to Dimmuklok/DYH is up for debate. 2. tunneling is bad if you do not consider outside perspectives/other options. I find it quite misrepresentative for you to say that I am "tunneling" mattchew; I seriously considered him town but today he is being incredibly, incredibly non-committal, as compared to his D2. For him to say "THESE 4 ARE SCUM" and then today to be like hmm mehh uhhh trackd00r lynch pls? It's strange; it reminds me of my D3 play in my previous game; after influencing 2 mislynches, I was unwilling to go balls to the wall because I was afraid of drawing undue attention. 3. I find it interesting that you are comparing the Mattchew case to DYH and MG. Mattchew also made a case on MG, so you can't say that we solely advanced that. Also, you say that we cannot distinguish "abrasive vs. scummy" and compare it to DYH, but DYH was NOT abrasive. I thought he was scummy for entirely different reasons. And how can you say his posts are definitely not scummy when he himself says "Yeah i been playing really badly, really scummy". On February 24 2012 08:26 gumshoe wrote: ech? Like why? Why are you trying to evoke that kind of paranoia at this stage in the game? THIS IS THE LAST THING WE NEED. If you remember, Mattchew attacked me, as opposed to pursuing his reads that he was so confident on. Of course his explanation is: On February 24 2012 08:27 Mattchew wrote: + Show Spoiler + Why it is reasonable to vote for Mattchew (me) 1. I have been overly aggressive and spammy 2. I have created chaos in a town setting that needed focus 3. My reads were wrong and are constantly changing 4. I have had a lot of contradicting reads and actions in this game 5. I shut up MG and TK which is where pressure becomes too much pressure 6. My big 4 scum post was bad. The case was not strong especially in a newbie game where everyone is easy to pick on. I have let scum dictate my play, regardless of who the scum team ends up being, they have had a serious negative impact on my reads and overall play. Well WTF have you been doing? Good Question. What most of you don't know (I tried to breadcrumb it through my posts about gumshoe), I have never fully read the thread. I skimmed up until I joined, and then barely followed along until after jaj was shot. This lead me to realize that I probably wasn't going to be making any good cases. I tried to sheep sloosh cause I knew he was good town in the game before. Then I noticed the vote switch. In my first game ever (I was scum) we organized a HUGE ass vote switch last minute. The dimmu lynch brought back these memories, and then seeing exactly 4 people had switched from ET to Dimmu, I thought it almost as a sign from God or something. I followed up on those 4 by reading their filters. I remember (I think it was Adam497 or w.e) saying that he had realized post game that he should have known who was scum because of their refusal to heavily interact with one another. When I saw the minimal (and yes there was a lot of scummy) interactions with these 4, I was ready to be the hero. I then realized that Sloosh was getting his way this game. I did actually read and think his and ET's case was bad on DYH. So finally after realizing that I was not town's hero I went back and re-read the thread. This is why I am fumbling around changing my reads every 3 seconds in a time where we need focus the most. I am playing like shit. For that I honestly have to apologize to town and everyone playing this game. A lot of you called me on my shit play but I was too arrogant to listen. So what Mattchew? You're right this post reeks of scum as well. I know its a little overreaction based on only getting 2 votes but with scum team having 4 votes and me being town I realize that 1 townie vote on me could lead to inevitable death and loss. I've read this far, your post sounds terrible but maybe its honest, anything else I have to say don't lynch me because thats my win condition and I have to play to it. Don't give me sympathy for this post and you should still hammer on me to play better. If I survive and we do lynch scum I will do my best to provide better reads. Essentially, saying that "I'm bad, sorry guys". So why exactly should we listen to the things that you have been saying in thread lately? Like your support for a trackd00r lynch? Being wrong (and you were only wrong about MG even) as a townie doesn't mean pipe down and become timid; it just means you have to pursue further reads. Your big reticence from this post is so contrary to your previous play that it's sort of mindboggling. I also find this amusing because when you say "I have to say don't lynch me because thats my win condition and I have to play to it", by saying that it is "my" win condition, it means that it suits you to not die (scum or town), as opposed to "our" win condition, which would be to not mislynch a townie. To mattchew's defense: you say that 90% of sloosh's case is you believing in your reads, but now the fact that you dont believe in your reads is weird. As town, all you have are your reads. I can see that maybe you have lost confidence after last night's flip; I did too, but if you articulated why your reads still have merit, it would be easier to see you as town. Your utter loss of confidence, as I said, reminds me of my own pullback D3 in GMarshal's Normal Mini Mafia. With at least two lurkers (rG and TK), and a scum team of 4, there is no way we will be able to lynch a scum unless all reamining townies come to a consensus. rG and TK; if you have any opinions on the current situation, please post them. No one will lambast you solely lurking, we just NEED to get something done, so if you are reading, please post anything. I'll consider anyone but trackd00r, if everyone is dead set against the Mattchew lynch. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
Because vaderseven expressed interest in replacing, but hasn't replaced in yet, I assume it is because TKHawkins is unsure of whether or not he wants to replace out; vaderseven replacing it would mean no modkill would be required, so it makes no sense for him to not come in now unless there is an extraneous factor. Thus, TK, if you're still playing, pls post anything, even just a vote. Town needs something, anything. | ||
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On February 25 2012 03:42 rgTheSchworz wrote: Mattchew usually has constructive, or at least tries to appear constructive as scum, it just doesnt fit his meta right now. LYLO-not him, not really. Mattchew is trying to appear constructive, hence the big ass post earlier. If you say that his meta is "try to appear constructive", then this game fits the bill. You should vote Mattchew if you honestly believe this to be true. Mattchew you have still not produced a case on me at all, other than "his case on me isn't that good", and "i think sloosh and ET are teamed together". This is really, really different than your initial case, which was built upon the belief that scum do not interact together. Idgaf if your reads change because you see the faults in them, but you have 180'd on your belief on scum tells. Town, read sloosh's posts; does he rly seem like a scum to you? I can realize that I have looked scummy from time to time, but there is no way that me and sloosh are a scum team. It makes utterly no sense. Scum never flamboyantly buddy like that, it is just nonsensical. Scum are more prone to light buddying, soft defending, sort of like Mattchew and Alderan. The only thing that people have managed to say about myself is that I tunneled bad reads. Well I'm not tunneling this time; I had a fcking revelation that the only way this game makes sense is if Mattchew is scum. If I was scum, I would have DEFINITELY mislynched gumshoe D1; there was a lot of heat on him (steveling, some others don't remember ight now) and I wouldn't have even had to have tried. Look at my previous game, when I mislynched Timeaisis; the gumshoe scenario this game is parallel, but I recognized that gumshoe was just a hapless townie. I wouldn't have called out sloosh. I wouldn't constantly post that I think mattchew is town, then switch my opinion like this. Honestly, it's me or Mattchew at this point. If you're scum, I know that you'll be piling on me, but if you are town, look at the game as a whole, and tell me to my face that I am scum. When mannerkiss lurked all D1, mattchew didn't post reasoning for anything for a long time, has not even read the whole thread, advanced a 4 man lynch plan that was half baked, and D3 his only prerogative is to vote me, after I've sufficiently called him out. Tell me that Mattchew is less scummy then me, if you're not going to vote him. Only hope is for town to pile on Mattchew. If you're town, vote him. I will not be back before the deadline. Town pls don't make me lose hope in humanity. I'm looking at you, rG and trackd00r. | ||
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lol. If slosh is scum then gg. | ||
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God I am worst townie ever | ||
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EchelonTee
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Epic fail lynching dyh  bah...... | ||
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On February 25 2012 09:13 DoYouHas wrote: Well played mafia. You definitely just messed with my head. Can't believe slOosh was town. Sloosh and gumshoe were my assured town reads, why'd you think he was scum? | ||
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On February 26 2012 15:03 Adam4167 wrote: If they're town, they're just as fallible and possibly just as lost as you are, ergo not reliable. ding ding ding ding my key, massive failure this game DYH, in the other thread, when I said "eh, DYH", I didn't mean that you made that mistake, I meant that the town made that mistake with respect to you. AKA you played moderate-->good and I played moderate-->bad. | ||
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