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On February 19 2012 09:38 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 09:27 EchelonTee wrote:On February 19 2012 08:19 gumshoe wrote:
I have an aching feeling that Ech will flip green if we kill him ) : that opening move of his was almost as bad as mine and hes supposed to be good, I cant imagine him being coached by other mafia through all this. I hate it but its gonna have to be a no lynch unless gladeus says he eats babies or something. Maybe we can vote for one of the lurkers? Manner/michael? Zell?
1. i'm not good. why suggest this so openly. this is my 4th game playing. 2. as mattchew said, this could be a scumslip; he knows I would flip green and is planting this. After my aggressive opening towards gumshoe I dont know why he would support me as such. Thoughts? It was between you and gladeus, and I wanted to vote for gladeus as I suspected him from earlier, also in case you didint notice everyone attacked me at the start in some way, In fact I'm more suspicious of the people of the people who supported me but more on that later. Oh by the way thanks for this "i'm not good" I remember someone said they expected more out of you or something... As if they were making you out to be a better player than you were, it worked cause come lynch time I got the sense that you were a bit more of an experienced player, that person I recall reprimanded you and praised you at the same time. Still trying to figure out why.
Why are you suspisious of people who supported you?
Why were you not around during the final minutes leading up to the lynch. jaj's reasoning that you might have woke up, voted, than gone back to sleep is obviously not what happened as you are here now. Give me a good reason for your disappearance. Your vote was important and we narrowly got a no-lynch. Why suddenly disappear after being so active in the thread?
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@ET what do you think of DoYouHas?
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@sl0osh
No he didnt, all he posted on DYH is this
So, that DoYouHas character, eh.
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Oh derp, idk how i missed it. Dont see how that is bottom of last page though. -.-
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On February 19 2012 10:14 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 09:48 zelblade wrote:On February 19 2012 09:38 gumshoe wrote:On February 19 2012 09:27 EchelonTee wrote:On February 19 2012 08:19 gumshoe wrote:
I have an aching feeling that Ech will flip green if we kill him ) : that opening move of his was almost as bad as mine and hes supposed to be good, I cant imagine him being coached by other mafia through all this. I hate it but its gonna have to be a no lynch unless gladeus says he eats babies or something. Maybe we can vote for one of the lurkers? Manner/michael? Zell?
1. i'm not good. why suggest this so openly. this is my 4th game playing. 2. as mattchew said, this could be a scumslip; he knows I would flip green and is planting this. After my aggressive opening towards gumshoe I dont know why he would support me as such. Thoughts? It was between you and gladeus, and I wanted to vote for gladeus as I suspected him from earlier, also in case you didint notice everyone attacked me at the start in some way, In fact I'm more suspicious of the people of the people who supported me but more on that later. Oh by the way thanks for this "i'm not good" I remember someone said they expected more out of you or something... As if they were making you out to be a better player than you were, it worked cause come lynch time I got the sense that you were a bit more of an experienced player, that person I recall reprimanded you and praised you at the same time. Still trying to figure out why. Why are you suspisious of people who supported you? Why were you not around during the final minutes leading up to the lynch. jaj's reasoning that you might have woke up, voted, than gone back to sleep is obviously not what happened as you are here now. Give me a good reason for your disappearance. Your vote was important and we narrowly got a no-lynch. Why suddenly disappear after being so active in the thread? just an update, Ive been pretty inactive because I realized the only thing ive proven through my posts is that I'm inept, I haven't built a strong case on anyone, so I let other people talk while I researched, now I almost have two cases, in about 30 minutes I'm gonna present my findings. Moving onto the vote,I voted for gladeus because I felt he was mafia, I changed my stance on dim a while ago when I got the sense that he was just bandwagoning me , he didn't post any reasons just said I was suspicious , he seemed kinda out of synch with everything and didn't really get a chance to have a back and forth with his accusers, I saw no reason to vote for him when i felt gladeus was the better pick, I stuck with who I suspected. As to why I'm more suspicious of people who support me? I cant say yet, itll just sound like wifom without a case, I need you all to be a bit patient on that front. like I said thirty minutes.
You are missing the point here. My point here is that in the last 20 minutes or so before the lynch, it was clear that MG wasnt going to be lynched. We needed your vote on Dimmu, and we narrowly missed a no-lynch. Why werent you around the last few minutes before the deadline, when you were clearly online?
I'll be looking forward to your case.
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On February 19 2012 10:43 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 10:24 zelblade wrote:On February 19 2012 10:14 gumshoe wrote:On February 19 2012 09:48 zelblade wrote:On February 19 2012 09:38 gumshoe wrote:On February 19 2012 09:27 EchelonTee wrote:On February 19 2012 08:19 gumshoe wrote:
I have an aching feeling that Ech will flip green if we kill him ) : that opening move of his was almost as bad as mine and hes supposed to be good, I cant imagine him being coached by other mafia through all this. I hate it but its gonna have to be a no lynch unless gladeus says he eats babies or something. Maybe we can vote for one of the lurkers? Manner/michael? Zell?
1. i'm not good. why suggest this so openly. this is my 4th game playing. 2. as mattchew said, this could be a scumslip; he knows I would flip green and is planting this. After my aggressive opening towards gumshoe I dont know why he would support me as such. Thoughts? It was between you and gladeus, and I wanted to vote for gladeus as I suspected him from earlier, also in case you didint notice everyone attacked me at the start in some way, In fact I'm more suspicious of the people of the people who supported me but more on that later. Oh by the way thanks for this "i'm not good" I remember someone said they expected more out of you or something... As if they were making you out to be a better player than you were, it worked cause come lynch time I got the sense that you were a bit more of an experienced player, that person I recall reprimanded you and praised you at the same time. Still trying to figure out why. Why are you suspisious of people who supported you? Why were you not around during the final minutes leading up to the lynch. jaj's reasoning that you might have woke up, voted, than gone back to sleep is obviously not what happened as you are here now. Give me a good reason for your disappearance. Your vote was important and we narrowly got a no-lynch. Why suddenly disappear after being so active in the thread? just an update, Ive been pretty inactive because I realized the only thing ive proven through my posts is that I'm inept, I haven't built a strong case on anyone, so I let other people talk while I researched, now I almost have two cases, in about 30 minutes I'm gonna present my findings. Moving onto the vote,I voted for gladeus because I felt he was mafia, I changed my stance on dim a while ago when I got the sense that he was just bandwagoning me , he didn't post any reasons just said I was suspicious , he seemed kinda out of synch with everything and didn't really get a chance to have a back and forth with his accusers, I saw no reason to vote for him when i felt gladeus was the better pick, I stuck with who I suspected. As to why I'm more suspicious of people who support me? I cant say yet, itll just sound like wifom without a case, I need you all to be a bit patient on that front. like I said thirty minutes. You are missing the point here. My point here is that in the last 20 minutes or so before the lynch, it was clear that MG wasnt going to be lynched. We needed your vote on Dimmu, and we narrowly missed a no-lynch. Why werent you around the last few minutes before the deadline, when you were clearly online? I'll be looking forward to your case. Theres an hour in between my posts, it was 8ish when I rushed my vote, I didn't vote to establish a majority I voted for the person I found suspicious, I left to go eat. Also I've been awake all day pretty much, I just haven't posted. I voted at 8ish left to go eat dinner with my family, came back and read the results. Also are you actually mad at me for not voting for a townie? Or do you think I wanted to look as if I was right about not voting for the townie ?
Simply wanted to clarify for why you were missing during the lynch. I dont think that you wanted to look as if you were right about not voting a townie, but am simply curious as to why you were gone and just wanted to pressure you to see your reaction.
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I would like to know about your reads, but you have stated that you are gonna post them so im waiting on it.
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Im posting my reads in case I die tonight. I would have prefered posting this closer towards the end of night, but am posting it now as I have school tomorrow and need to go sleep now, and will not be online from around now to about 5.00 KST (+8).
Gumshoe - Gumshoe being gumshoe as usual. I feel like he is trying to help, although his logic, as pointed out, is pretty bad. I am dont get why he keeps insisting that people who didnt outright attack him and call him mafia are suspisious. I am leaning town on him for the moment. This is a gut read, as he could easily be mafia with a really wierd and flashy playstyle.
Bale000 - Leaning town at the moment. His posts, whilst little, are filled with content, and he is transparent with his reads. He really should post more though.
Alderan - His inital posts were good, and he was also the first person to call out dimmuklok, applying pressure onto him. Even though dimmu has flipped town, I still believe that alderan simply had a wrong read as dimmuklok did seem pretty scummy. His posts also generally make sense, though he, as with bale, needs to post more. As such, I have a town read on him at this point.
Mattchew - I am still suspisious of him for obvious reasons. As said, MannerKiss was already pretty scummy, and his sheep vote on MG feels wierd. Leaning scum.
Steveling - I dont think that the no lynch thing was a scumslip. Seems more like a newbish mistake to me. However, he has been tunneling gumshoe all game. Could be either 1) Town convinced that gumshoe is scum, and annoyed at his posts, or 2) Scum picking the easy targert to push. I am unsure on him right now. Null. Steve, if you are (1), give us some reads. Other than gumshoe. I understand that you might be annoyed with gum's posting right now (understandable), but sometimes you need to step back and take a look at the big picture. Being overly focused on one person may cloud your judgement and could just easily lead to confirmation bias. If you are (2) just claim scum kthxbye.
trackdo0r - He has been transparent with his reads during the first part of the day. However, he has started to post less, and the content of his posts have also dwindled. Im gonna just quote you here:
-Zelbalde has only posted once, giving advice to us and apologizing. This was his biggest flaw last game. We know that you are a busy person zelblade, but posting just once is fine, instead of refilling your posts with more 'sorry' and making you either difficult to read or a scum candidate.
Do what you have asked me to do. Instead of apologising for your inactivity, post your reads, and push them. You have promised them though, and i will be looking forward to seeing them. Null for now.
Janaan - Transparent. His response toward's Hawkins' FOS and gumshoes accusiations (or w/e) was really clear. I like his posts. Leaning town.
TKHawkins - As with Janaan, transparent. Even though I dont really agree with some of his reads and logic, I get the feel of townie trying to help from him. Leaning [green]town[/green].
jaj22 - Has been repetadely calling people out - and has also been making sense. Whilst I dont really agree with his MG read, he is most likely town in my eyes.
Now onto Sloosh and DoYouHas.
As I have stated, I find it extremely suspisious of DYH's actions leading up to the lynch. Though he has given his motivations for advocating the no lynch, I still find it a little wierd, especially regarding his attitude. If he was indeed being stubborn on sloosh as he says, I would have expected him to push harder with something more convincing than this:
If I have not been convincing enough with my case against sl0osh, so be it. Find the majority without me.
Still, his responses against sloosh's case is good and seems valid. This doesnt clear him in my eyes though. Moving on to sloosh, I agree with DYH - he has been really hyprotical regarding DYH, and a good portion of what he accuses DYH of can apply to him as well. What I reallly am interested in would be sloosh's response to this. At this point though, I am fairly convinced that one of them is scum. Doubt that they are both scum, unless this is an elaborate bus which I highly doubt.
As for EchelonTee and MidnightGladius,
The two of them were the main candidates for lynch today before the last minute switch to dimmu since the players present couldnt achieve a majority on either of them. Honestly, I had them pegged as both town. The main reason for my suspisions on ET earlier was for his sheep vote before going away without any sort of reasoning - and I expect more from him due to the fact that he seems to be a good and experienced player. His responses to my suspisions and the many other cases on him are also good, and he clearly addresses them, as well as posting a detailed case on MG. As such, I dropped my vote on him. I have also repetadely stated that MG is probably town - he seems to be playing similar to last game, with a tendancy to post fluff and speculation regarding the setup. I also didnt really find his actions condemning. However, having reread his filter and taken another look at ET's case, he does seem to have a tendancy to push only the easiest targerts. I would really like to see him make a few more reads. Another thing that is suspisious about the both of them is their actions leading up to the lynch. Despite apparently being convinced that each other was scum, they hardly did anything about it, hardly pushing each other. If my strongest scum read was closest to majority along with me, I would definately attempt to get as many as possible to switch off me and onto my scum read. I can understand their reasons for switching, but them not pushing harder seems wierd to me. For now, these two could, imo, flip any way. They could be 2 townies tunneling each other, a townie and a mafia going at each other, or perhaps even 2 mafia bussing each other (doubtful). Either way, my reads on both of them are Null for now.
Well this turned out alot longer than expected. I understand that I dont really have many scum reads atm, but this is all I have now.
Another thing. I believe that all of you should post your reads tonight. If you dont believe in the value of posting your town reads (MG), just post your scum ones than. The reason for this is simple - we want to have as much information from you in case you are shot tonight.
Right ill be going to sleep soon. If any of you have any short questions ill prolly be around for the next 15mins or so and can type out a few quick responses, but dont expect any lengthy or in-depth answers.
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Right I just got back from school and have caught up on the thread. I am still suspisious about Mattchew. His posts are mostly (infact all) short, and devoid of content. Really want him to post more. Im not going to push for his lynch today though as as slOosh says - we need to find mafia one at a time. As such, I will be giving my opinion on the main lynch candidate presented today - DoYouHas.
I might have stated that my scum read on him was getting weaker during the night phase as I thought that his second response towards sloosh's case seemed pretty good. However, rereading through it and reading the new developments, I agree that his responses do seem weak and arent really adressing the main points. His vote onto sloosh is still really wierd to me, and that town list which he has constantly asked people to not post is wierd as well. He also tries to analyze the cause of jaj's death - WIFOM at its finest. There are a myraid of reasons for someone getting hit by mafia. The way he goes about it seems like he is using it as an excuse to push midnight. How would he know that mafia hit jaj to "save" midnight from jaj's pushes? It could easily be the other way around. I really dont like how he is using this. Oh, and not to mention that he tries to make sloosh doubt his own case by stating that he is tunneling and using confirmation bias. Note how he seems to have stopped trying to defend himself.
After being pushed hard, he finally makes another case - on the easiest targert. Midnight is already under a load of suspision from various sources, and DYH seems to be desprately pushing the lynch off him onto the easiest targert avaliable.
Overall, I am once again leaning scum on DYH. His actions are really wierd this game and I dont believe that a good player such as DYH is making them. The vote on sloosh, application of wifom on the NK, and that town list are really suspisious. I also dont like the targert he chooses to attack - It is the easiest, with mutiple people already voicing out their suspisions on MG.
DoYouHas has my vote for today.
##vote: DoYouHas
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Another thing is that I want to echo what jaj said before he died - submit your votes early. We are having timezone issues and it is best if we can consolidate our votes early so as to avoid retarded stuff like yesterday's rush of a (mis)lynch happen again.
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On February 20 2012 18:14 Steveling wrote:
-snip-
vote##: DoYouHas
On another note, people don't panic please. And stop making these lists. We need solid stuff. Not fluff.
Also if you are gonna spend 1 hour filtering only to say that you find x and y to be town, then pls do something else.
We need opinions on scum not on town.
Your vote format is wrong.
The ## is before vote, not after it.
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Matt, is this how you usually post? I dont like this style of posting. You give next to no reasoning for your reads.
steveling reads as town to me
No reasoning.
##vote: Doyouhas
No reasoning.
he(MG) could just have wrong reads... which is what i believe is the case
Next to no reasoning.
You are not being transparent with your reads. One of the main aims as a townie is to prove your innocence. MannerKiss was doing an excellent job at failing at that, and your shallow one-liners are not helping. I would seriously consider changing my vote onto you if not for the fact that DYH is much more likely to flip scum.
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On February 20 2012 23:39 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 21:52 zelblade wrote:Matt, is this how you usually post? I dont like this style of posting. You give next to no reasoning for your reads. steveling reads as town to me No reasoning. ##vote: Doyouhas No reasoning. he(MG) could just have wrong reads... which is what i believe is the case Next to no reasoning. You are not being transparent with your reads. One of the main aims as a townie is to prove your innocence. MannerKiss was doing an excellent job at failing at that, and your shallow one-liners are not helping. I would seriously consider changing my vote onto you if not for the fact that DYH is much more likely to flip scum. Zell I want you to think back for a moment, remember the start of the game? DYH accused manner and manner had that wonky response for which DYH said he was mafia, this happened pretty early in the game so I am inclined to believe that they are not both mafia. Unless you are suggesting that DYH convinced one of his teamates to sacrifice himself that early on(which isnt outside MY scope of possibility but most people tend to be a bit less imaginative then me) Your accusation against mittch is valid if DYH flips green. in which case mittch looks just awful. So save your accusation for then, right now it feels like your trying to crumb suspicion on mittch not for this vote, but the next. As if you've seen the hit your team is about to take and feel the need to ensure that a mislynch happens tomorrow on one of the most obvious suspects. That said I am paranoid at the moment, so I'll drop my vague suspicion of you. Right now we are discussing DYH, no one has offered a defence for him despite the fact that if someone tried hard enough they could pull a case together because of how seemingly active he's been. So I think scum are now trying to distance themselves from him. Heres whats I think is useful to hear right now in my opinion. A defence of DYH before the psuedo deadline and suggestions for where to go if DYH flips green or red. me on if DYH flips greed: If DYH flips green we need to start taking safe bets, so a Mitch lynch would be good in that scenario.
It is entirely possible that both of them are scum. Remember, mafia, especially at the start of the game, arent gonna buddy each other up - it would be obvious that something was going on. It is entirely possible for DYH to throw out some pressure onto manner easily. What i actually find suspisious now that you mention it is this: at that time when DYH decided to throw out his pressure on manner, why him? There were so many others that hadnt posted at all yet, yet out of all of them he chose to call out mannerkiss. I'll just quote ur day 1 list here.
+ Show Spoiler +Early reports! All very preliminary but hopefully it'll give everyone an idea of where some townies stand and where some lurkers don't.
blae - absent but has an alibi(by alibi I mean he said before game that he would not be especially present day one)
Alderan - Absent no alibi
Ech - present but slightly suspicious ) :
Do you has - present has contributed somewhat(a single post against the word of Ech) no basis for suspicion
manner kiss- has presented himself but has not yet contributed to discussion. No basis for suspicion
steveling - is present has contributed to discussion does not seem suspicious.
track door - has made himself present has contributed somewhat to discussion no reason yet to suspect
midnight- is present has contributed , (is mean to me but rightfully so ) no reason to suspect as of yet
Sloosh - has contributed, acted out only to defend himself, does not seem suspicius
Janaan- is absent no alibi
tk hawakins- is absent no aibi
dimmuKlk- is absent no alibi
zell - is absent no alibi
jaj22 - is present, is also somewhat mean but justifiably so as far as I can tell, his negative tone is striking negative but not yet suspicion worthy.
As you can see, so many of us (including me), were not active yet. Why did he choose to pressure mannerkiss out of all of them? I find this really wierd and it seems that DoYouHas could be distancing himself from manner.
So no, I dont believe that my accusation is valid only if DYH flips green (rather unlikely).
I also dont see how DYH flipping green would incriminate mattchew though. Could you point it out to me?
And yes, I agree that the lack of defense for DYH is really wierd. This could obviously mean that we are:
1) Wrong
2) Its a bus!
3) Scum do not have much of a thread presence/are not being influential, and thus are not willing to take the risk to go ahead with a solid defence of DYH, and are thus, as you said, distancing themselves from him.
Im currently sold on (3) personally. I dont believe that mafia would be actively bussing him at this point in time just for some town cred. Town cred is fickle and I would be pretty glad if they were doing so as they would be giving us a pretty dangerous scum on a silver platter.
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@matt
I have been assuming that you have finished reading since you stated here about 12 hours ago:
i changed my mind. midnight and gum are both bad lynches. gumshoe after more reading is trying really hard and is pro-town. midnight i am skeptical of but is not as good a lynch as doyouhas.
i am almost caught up on reading the thread / filters.
And no, I rather you not be modkilled, but I still want you to chime in your thoughts on the lynch candidate. A simple vote without any reasoning makes it extremely hard to hold you accountable if this turns out to be a mislynch. When questioned, you can simply reply "Oh I was just sheeping" This has no accountability and I dont like it.
And I do agree that DYH's flip shows nothing about your aglinment. And another thing, do you actually think that gumshoes points on you are valid?
To summarize this is what he points out
1) You are not mafia if DYH flips red because he pressured (not even with a vote) mannerkiss early on.
2) Im scum because I am suspisious of your posting, attacking the easy targert, and (in his mind) trying to set up a mislynch.
3) If DYH flips green you are red and need to be lynched.
Do you really find this logical? You have already said that DYH's flip says nothing about you, which I believe is true. If so, why do you think that gumshoe's post - largely based off how you are only scum if DYH flips green? I dont see how you see this as "logical".
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8.00 HKT
Day after tomorrow
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Also I need to go sleep now - have a test tomorrow.
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On February 21 2012 00:46 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 00:35 zelblade wrote:@matt I have been assuming that you have finished reading since you stated here about 12 hours ago: i changed my mind. midnight and gum are both bad lynches. gumshoe after more reading is trying really hard and is pro-town. midnight i am skeptical of but is not as good a lynch as doyouhas.
i am almost caught up on reading the thread / filters. And no, I rather you not be modkilled, but I still want you to chime in your thoughts on the lynch candidate. A simple vote without any reasoning makes it extremely hard to hold you accountable if this turns out to be a mislynch. When questioned, you can simply reply "Oh I was just sheeping" This has no accountability and I dont like it. And I do agree that DYH's flip shows nothing about your aglinment. And another thing, do you actually think that gumshoes points on you are valid? To summarize this is what he points out 1) You are not mafia if DYH flips red because he pressured (not even with a vote) mannerkiss early on. 2) Im scum because I am suspisious of your posting, attacking the easy targert, and (in his mind) trying to set up a mislynch. 3) If DYH flips green you are red and need to be lynched. Do you really find this logical? You have already said that DYH's flip says nothing about you, which I believe is true. If so, why do you think that gumshoe's post - largely based off how you are only scum if DYH flips green? I dont see how you see this as "logical". I read DYH's filter and there are a bunch of good cases on him. That is my reason for voting him. I am accountable for my vote and my agreeing with others reads. gumshoe is wrong but I don't think he realizes that.
Than why do you say that his post is the most logical? I dont understand this.
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oh.
derp.
really need to go now will post more tomorrow.
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EPT
