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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
Id echo Blazinghands comments as well, just do what you normally as town, when youre scum. Id like to think my scum play looks quite similar to my town play, (as evidence by ET and half the obs thread wanting to hang me  ). Thats probably the best way to tackle it. Having a large contrast between your town and scum play just makes you succeptable to meta cases which leads to stupid mislynches. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On February 04 2012 10:10 Probulous wrote: Well thanks guys for the advice. Next scum game I will make sure that we read the posts of everyone before that get posted. Any other suggestions. I am fairly certain that after zarepath was lynched there was not much we could do. Chocolate and balt where already targeted which left myself and since we had voted late that made us look really bad. Any ideas on how to pull that around or is it simply too late? I mean as Jitsu said in our QT by the end of day 1 you could step back and see who was scum pretty clearly. From there on in it was an uphill struggle. I guess the vig shot and town saves really finished us off. I just want to improve for next game and the take home lessons I have so far are Team Check posts before posting Be more proactive day 1/2 so you don't end up with everyone on the end of the wagon. Anything else? I wouldn't necessarily read every post because you don't want the posts to take too long to write (thus taking your team out of the thread, especially early). But definitely the important ones should be reviewed. It's a balancing act in the end. Once you're in that position, you need to get a stronger hold on the thread. That means shooting people who are controlling the thread and posting a lot more actively. Your team wasn't actually dead until you shot adam. A shot on DoYouHas night 3 and this game is still quite winnable (though some of that is luck because you psyched yourselves out of the DT read because of his tunnel on day 3). Also, you had solid comments in the QT on day 1 in particular, but dreamflower and I couldn't figure out why you weren't posting more. It seemed like you were too focused on telling your scumbuddies to post stuff and you kinda forgot to post some stuff yourself. Just compare your activity levels in the QT vs. in the thread to see what I mean. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5252 Posts
On February 04 2012 12:57 DoYouHas wrote: Well, I had a ton of fun for my first game. Hoping to get into another game soon, but I definitely think I need another newbie game. Will another one be hosted in the near future? A lot of the minis end up chock full of newbs, you wouldnt be out of place in any of them. I'm only in my 3rd game atm, and it's full o da nubs | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:09 Qatol wrote: I wouldn't necessarily read every post because you don't want the posts to take too long to write (thus taking your team out of the thread, especially early). But definitely the important ones should be reviewed. It's a balancing act in the end. Once you're in that position, you need to get a stronger hold on the thread. That means shooting people who are controlling the thread and posting a lot more actively. Your team wasn't actually dead until you shot adam. A shot on DoYouHas night 3 and this game is still quite winnable (though some of that is luck because you psyched yourselves out of the DT read because of his tunnel on day 3). Also, you had solid comments in the QT on day 1 in particular, but dreamflower and I couldn't figure out why you weren't posting more. It seemed like you were too focused on telling your scumbuddies to post stuff and you kinda forgot to post some stuff yourself. Just compare your activity levels in the QT vs. in the thread to see what I mean. Thanks Qatol. Will remember for next time. Thanks again for a great game. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
1) Call a shot on balt11t at the beginning of the Night and look at the town's response. a) If it became obvious from balt11t's response that he was indeed mafia, and that the town was in favor of lynching him regardless, I would switch targets and shoot Bromancipate instead, claiming this in the thread shortly before the Day post. b) If I was wrong about balt11t, and he claimed a blue role and provided useful information, I would switch my shot to Bromancipate, knowing that I was probably going to be killed by the mafia during the night. The town could sort out the claim afterward. c) If no particularly useful information came out of the exchange, I would play it safe and not switch targets. In the end, it was pretty clear that balt11t wouldn't be alive for much longer no matter what happened, but I thought about it a little bit more. On the one hand, if I had been right with both of my reads, it would have essentially wrapped up the game. On the other hand, had I been wrong about either balt11t or Bromancipate, or heaven forbid both, the town would have been thrown into chaos and the endgame would have been much more messy. As the town was in a pretty strong position following the first medic save and zarepath's lynch, I ultimately decided to play it safe. Of course, it turned out that my reads were right, but I don't want to be a victim of hindsight bias. What would you have done as a vigilante in that position? Would it have been right to trust my reads and go for the big play, or is it better to just play safely? Alternatively, would I have been better off not calling my shot on balt11t in the first place and either holding onto my shot, or still shooting him and claiming it on the next Day? | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
People in Obs QT said my case against Zarepath was weak / confirmation bias, and I think besides MidnightGladius' vig shot and Adams hunches on Chocolate, as a town we didn't ever rally around a good analysis case. Could you help point out posts which tipped off people as mafia? Or is this more an overall feel in which each post adds to the case rather than one solid post upon which you can lynch mafia? Also, how can you differentiate between timidity due to being new to the game and timidity due to being mafia? | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
Are you going to join us in Werewolves? You would do really well as you were hard as hell to play against. It would be nice to be on the same side as you | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Gah, and I just found out it is a PM game! It seems like too much for me ><; Hoping that GMarshal will host another Newbie game after his mini. I am very excited to play and just waiting for appropriate game right now. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
We think very very similarly. In Newbie Mafia II, we both identified (incorrectly) the exact same scum team, for the same reasons. Our brains must just be wired the same  , so when I see you on what was a painfully obvious (to me at least) mislynch, I was instantly suspicious.However, every time I put a case together, it basically boiled down to "I really have nothing much else... BUT JUST TRUST ME GUYZ". Something told me that wasn't going to work, so I set out to catch your teammate, drag this game as close to LyLo as I could, and then id only have to influence 1-2 people with my crappy meta case, instead of 5-6. Now that I've played in 5 games, I qualify to apply for co-hosting, and eventually get my hosting wings. I'm really interested in getting some newbie games rolling, I find them far more interesting (far less ego -__-) and growing this community can only be a good thing. Hopefully that can happen before all of you no longer qualify to play in them! | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
What are your thoughts on bussing as mafia? My biggest issue this game aside from being unavailable more than usual, was how to approach my mafia brethren in the thread. On one hand if I don't push them as hard as others the double standard becomes clear but if I push them too hard they end up getting lynched. For example Day 1 you can read in the QT that as soon as zarepath made his opening post I knew it would be his downfall. It was a suspicious topic and was presented in a suspicious manner. How do I not avoid placing him at the top of my "scum" list? Jitsu chose Fake because he agreed but logically zarepath should have been target number 1. The reason I told the boys to post lots was I felt confident in being able to survive for at least the first day and probably day 2 as well. So I wanted them to get as much thread presence as possible. The problem was that most of the team opened up in ways that would normally flag my red radar, how do I not implicate them? Take Adam's case on me, it was based purely on me voting for Fake on Day 1 and knowing that normally I would not vote for such an obvious miss-lynch. I wasn't here for that vote and probably would have pushed us to vote elsewhere but the problem remains. When is it appropriate to throw your team mates under the bus? | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
I don't think anyone is going to come out bragging about this one, we got exceptionally lucky with our blues. My self-analysis: My early play was pretty average. I joined the game late, stubbornly defied the most town people, tunneled a townie for 24 hours, refused to vote for a scum. Somehow, through all of that, I managed to get myself confirmed as a townie. Probably my biggest regret was not opposing the Simberto lynch louder, but my confidence was pretty down after defending Zarepath and tunneling Sacred, so I really wasn't sure of any of my reads, at that point. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
My biggest regret that whole game was holding back my opinions and waiting to make large, thought out posts. I realized I did it day 1 and thought I was dead because I was clearly acting like a blue (hi5 sl0osh). I really should have just put all my suspicions on the table as I had them. It would have made me look more green than blue and I think it would have kept me from tunneling as much. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I've actually been thinking about day 1s in general, and wondered how to get talking started (assuming normal game without mayor elections). For this game it was FakePromise's innocent but misunderstood/exaggerated 30% statement but how would you do that in other games? | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On February 10 2012 13:59 Adam4167 wrote: Zarepaths opening post is exactly what threw me. Scum 'generally' like to open discussion with a very neutral topic, like policy lynches. Why would a scum pick something much more abrasive, like randomly electing someone to die, and thrust himself into the spotlight in the process? The problem wasn't the topic it was the "random lynching". He was advocating random lynches using a non-random method. In essence his plan was a cover for getting someone lynched that he had chosen. The fact that this was hardly mentioned really struck me when catching up on the thread. Here is the logic
Most people had issues with the odds and the lack of information that comes from random lynching but supporting those isn't exactly scummy. It is is just a difference of opinion and probably bad town play. The fact that he suggested "reverse alphabetical" means the process is not random and he was trying to get someone lynched. Then when he flipped people should have realised that zelblade was zarepath's day 1 target (in his first post no less) and so was highly unlikely to be mafia. I didn't push this because I actually wanted zelblade lynched | ||
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