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So scum do not get angry at people pushing them and threatening to shoot them or what? And townies do? And townies shoot people in the face for no reason? Since he probably is a Jack, does that in any way make it more likely that he is town? Why wouldn't a scum Jack try to breadcrumb his role? His reason for breadcrumbing it was that you were a dayvig, and he thought he could convince you that he was one too by breadcrumbing, but he isn't a dayvig. He's a Jack. How does that make any sense? At that point he was in a pretty stressful situation so I don't read much into that, I just don't think there's anything about his behavior during that entire thing that indicates that he's town and I think it's weird that you feel so strongly about him being town.
If there's any medic out there who protected annul and it looks like he's about to get lynched and you think he's a more valuable player than you are, then you should claim. I don't think any player who would have protected annul last night could be any more valuable than him, so I think that it is weird that annul doesn't want the medic to claim at any point. annul thinks highly of himself so it is weird that he doesn't think he's more important that some medic, he's been pretty vocal about how the medic must not claim.
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On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick.
The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates.
I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia.
And I just gave you mafia.
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On December 08 2011 22:43 prplhz wrote:So scum do not get angry at people pushing them and threatening to shoot them or what? And townies do? And townies shoot people in the face for no reason? Since he probably is a Jack, does that in any way make it more likely that he is town? Why wouldn't a scum Jack try to breadcrumb his role? His reason for breadcrumbing it was that you were a dayvig, and he thought he could convince you that he was one too by breadcrumbing, but he isn't a dayvig. He's a Jack. How does that make any sense? At that point he was in a pretty stressful situation so I don't read much into that, I just don't think there's anything about his behavior during that entire thing that indicates that he's town and I think it's weird that you feel so strongly about him being town. If there's any medic out there who protected annul and it looks like he's about to get lynched and you think he's a more valuable player than you are, then you should claim. I don't think any player who would have protected annul last night could be any more valuable than him, so I think that it is weird that annul doesn't want the medic to claim at any point. annul thinks highly of himself so it is weird that he doesn't think he's more important that some medic, he's been pretty vocal about how the medic must not claim.
It's not the fact that he got angry, it's how he got angry. And no, I think a scumjack wouldn't have attempted to communicate with me like that, but instead called me out. I might be wrong, I'm not always right (just most of the time), but I feel that it's irrelevant as of now.
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Germany16350 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia.
there's nothing about his play that puts him down as mafia? Have you read my case? Even erandorr agrees that it's a good one which is the reason people feel sorry for him.
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Germany16350 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia.
EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf.
So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch?
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Yes I read your case and I don't think it's conclusive.
Him calling out Radfield for his stance on annul doesn't seem scummy at all to me, and he already took his own stance (voting annul). Yes he hasn't been a beacon of obvious town, but I don't think your case which basically consists of meta to his last game, ignoring for example mini mafia x, where he played an equally useless town, is stronger than the current case on annul. How certain are you that Errandor is scum?
I think we have a weak case against Errandor, a non-existant bullshit case against prplhz, and a very, very strong case against annul. I think we should be lynching annul.
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On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch?
Woah, are you intentionally being thick?
There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him.
However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a.
To make it simple:
Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.
Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.
If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you.
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On December 08 2011 18:58 Lanaia wrote:I'm sorry. I know I said I would post, but I literally just spent 14 hours on my project and am almost done. It's now bedtime. I didn't realize it would take so long. I will post first thing in the morning. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 15:14 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 12:27 redFF wrote:
scumteam atm is palmar, prplhz, zephirdd mattchew and then someone else i dunno maybe rad? I'd be surprised if anyone on this list was mafia sorry I'm not sorry for being honest (or it might turn out I'm just stupid) Can you at the very least explain why you'd be surprised?
I would be surprised because zeph and rad I read into as definitive town. Rad for contributing and building a good town atmosphere and zeph has literally nothing suspicous about his posts. prplhz has been pushing at guys which can be read as scummy but I think that his pushing for answers has been pretty pro-town thus far. Palmar is by far the sketchiest on this list imo. His tunneling on annul screams "misleading town away from voting a mafia member to get lynched" but it could just be his ego on his read convincing him he is right. Plus I am town, so 4 out of 5 would really surprise me and Palmar I am questionable on.
On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia.
This was an awful post. For starters, toad pointed out your blatant contradictions. Secondly, your case against annul is not as strong or as 100% as your "self appointed thought leader" self thinks it is. Finally, if you keep trying to muscle people into voting the way you see things with hardly anyone ever fully agreeing, unless they are blindly following you because of past successes.
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Germany16350 Posts
I think the case I got on erandorr is the best we got so far. And yes I did not integrate mini mafia X because I was not playing in that game. I know you guys love to read old games to study someones meta but I'm not going to read 100 pages of a game to get a proper read on ONE guy in this game and I'm not going to do that with multiple people. Actually rad mentioned mini mafia X and said erandorrs style in miniX was completly different to what he's doing now. So idk.
Yes it is mostly what I've seen him do in that 80-player-game and this one. It's just that it's completly the same thing. Exactly the same pattern/style. On top of that I think his style got flaws and it's shaky this game.
Take redFF for example. It's my first game with him or I don't remember him from a previous game. Therefore I have 0 meta on him. What he's doing so far is scummy as hell, still I don't think he's mafia right now because his style looks consistent. Either that guy is a really good mafia player that he's able to fake a style like this or he's just used to playing that way as both mafia and town imo. So that's why I'm not all over redFF although I think his actions look scummy. I just don't see that in Erandorrs posts.
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On December 08 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote:On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch? Woah, are you intentionally being thick? There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him. However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a. To make it simple: Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you.
Woah, are you intentionally being thick?
He's saying that you cant say "don't look at who votes annul" followed by "watch how erandorr votes"
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Germany16350 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:16 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 18:58 Lanaia wrote:I'm sorry. I know I said I would post, but I literally just spent 14 hours on my project and am almost done. It's now bedtime. I didn't realize it would take so long. I will post first thing in the morning. On December 08 2011 15:14 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 12:27 redFF wrote:
scumteam atm is palmar, prplhz, zephirdd mattchew and then someone else i dunno maybe rad? I'd be surprised if anyone on this list was mafia sorry I'm not sorry for being honest (or it might turn out I'm just stupid) Can you at the very least explain why you'd be surprised? I would be surprised because zeph and rad I read into as definitive town. Rad for contributing and building a good town atmosphere and zeph has literally nothing suspicous about his posts. prplhz has been pushing at guys which can be read as scummy but I think that his pushing for answers has been pretty pro-town thus far. Palmar is by far the sketchiest on this list imo. His tunneling on annul screams "misleading town away from voting a mafia member to get lynched" but it could just be his ego on his read convincing him he is right. Plus I am town, so 4 out of 5 would really surprise me and Palmar I am questionable on.
yes I think your right with the bolded part. Palmar is the kind of guy that loves to be in contorl so first of all he wants to lead town (last game he even was mayor) and secondly he obviously thinks very highly about himself and most people agree on the second one. However, he's not a semi-god who's right with every call he makes so I think we should question his vote instead of just sheeping. If he manages to explain it so that I come to the same conclusion it's fine with me but I'm not going to sheep him just because he's good.
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On December 08 2011 23:19 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote:On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch? Woah, are you intentionally being thick? There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him. However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a. To make it simple: Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you. Woah, are you intentionally being thick? He's saying that you cant say "don't look at who votes annul" followed by "watch how erandorr votes"
Why not?
If toad thinks Erandorr is mafia, and Erandorr votes for annul, that should have no impact on whether or not the case against annul is valid, because Erandorr isn't annul, they're seperate people. Toad could be wrong about Erandorr, I could be wrong about annul, and Erandorr could be bussing annul. You cannot read anything about whether or not the annul wagon is valid based on who is on it.
However, while the fact Erandorr votes for annul says nothing about annul, it does say a lot about Erandorr, because... Erandorr is Erandorr.
I don't get what's complicated about this.
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@palmar
The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.
Common.. what kind of logic is this? If i have suspicon about all the people voting for annul.. no way i'm going to vote with them. At that moment it doesn't matter what kind of case there is. I'm just not voting on anyone together with players i don't trust.
Anyways, i'm not voting anyone you push forward. I'm going to follow toad's case on errandor here.
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"Here's the deal, this is in no way a blue claim,"
maybe you just dont speak english or understand ambiguity in pronouns, i dunno. pretty sure we established what exactly i saw and pretty sure the other alternative interpretation was brought forward. pretty sure we dropped it a while ago. so there goes the first half of your "case" lol
"What the shit is a blueslip, there is no such thing."
i explained it, if you actually read my filter i said a while ago that it was analogous to a scumslip.
"What has Soap's alignment to do with me? I called him my homeboy, so if I'm right I must be scum?"
it has to do with you forcing a jack to blow his wad for absolutely no reason. really dumb move.
"He hasn't even pushed a case against me today."
you are right about this. it would be so easy, too. at one point it was 5-4 me:you (5-5 if i voted). and i didnt act like a complete anti-town tard on day 1. i could have you lynched so easily. the time when i actually decide to go all out logic and debate on someone they never recover.
"annul claimed to have been saved by a medic, from a shot I am all but certain was fired by syllogism, "
this has what exactly to do with my alignment?
like the bottom line is palmar has a maaaaaaaaaaaassively strong meta to blindly OMGUS anyone who pressures him for any reason. of course now is no different.
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"If there's any medic out there who protected annul and it looks like he's about to get lynched and you think he's a more valuable player than you are, then you should claim"
again, dont do this.
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On December 08 2011 23:28 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:19 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote:On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch? Woah, are you intentionally being thick? There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him. However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a. To make it simple: Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you. Woah, are you intentionally being thick? He's saying that you cant say "don't look at who votes annul" followed by "watch how erandorr votes" Why not? If toad thinks Erandorr is mafia, and Erandorr votes for annul, that should have no impact on whether or not the case against annul is valid, because Erandorr isn't annul, they're seperate people. Toad could be wrong about Erandorr, I could be wrong about annul, and Erandorr could be bussing annul. You cannot read anything about whether or not the annul wagon is valid based on who is on it. However, while the fact Erandorr votes for annul says nothing about annul, it does say a lot about Erandorr, because... Erandorr is Erandorr. I don't get what's complicated about this.
I believe he's talking about more people that look scummy then just eran jumping on the annul bandwagon, and I think he is claiming that its a nice scum hideout vote. I dont know whos right (I personally agree more with Toad based on my own reads) but I think you can read into the people (not just eran) voting for annul and question that bandwagon
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On December 08 2011 23:29 hyshes wrote:@palmar Show nested quote +The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.
Common.. what kind of logic is this? If i have suspicon about all the people voting for annul.. no way i'm going to vote with them. At that moment it doesn't matter what kind of case there is. I'm just not voting on anyone together with players i don't trust. Anyways, i'm not voting anyone you push forward. I'm going to follow toad's case on errandor here.
If you have a justified reason to believe the people voting annul are scum, then it's very likely the case on it's own should be too weak to follow anyway. So yes, this is logic. It's simply incorrect to dismiss a case based on the presumption that some players presenting or supporting the case might be scum, if the case is valid enough it should be followed.
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now i have a final exam in 27 minutes, so im going to eat my food and get to school. but seriously palmar give it up
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Germany16350 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:28 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:19 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote:On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch? Woah, are you intentionally being thick? There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him. However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a. To make it simple: Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you. Woah, are you intentionally being thick? He's saying that you cant say "don't look at who votes annul" followed by "watch how erandorr votes" Why not? If toad thinks Erandorr is mafia, and Erandorr votes for annul, that should have no impact on whether or not the case against annul is valid, because Erandorr isn't annul, they're seperate people. Toad could be wrong about Erandorr, I could be wrong about annul, and Erandorr could be bussing annul. You cannot read anything about whether or not the annul wagon is valid based on who is on it. However, while the fact Erandorr votes for annul says nothing about annul, it does say a lot about Erandorr, because... Erandorr is Erandorr. I don't get what's complicated about this.
First of all, you just said it. Even if you're right and annul is mafia there's no new read on erandorr. The guy voted for annul after something like 4 votes were on him after an incredible fast time? If you're right this could be a bus and this gives me 0 information about erandorr. How am I supposed to to gauge erandorrs alignment based on the flip? This is incredible wifom to the max.
Erandorr could be a townie sheeping you if annul is red. (or he came to the same conclusion without telling us)
Erandorr could be a townie sheeping you if annul is green. (or he came to the same conclusion without telling us)
Erandorr could be a mafia bussing annul if annul is red.
Erandorr could be a mafia getting a green-lynch if annul is green.
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On December 08 2011 23:38 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:28 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 23:19 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote:On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well.
Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay.
Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch? Woah, are you intentionally being thick? There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him. However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a. To make it simple: Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you. Woah, are you intentionally being thick? He's saying that you cant say "don't look at who votes annul" followed by "watch how erandorr votes" Why not? If toad thinks Erandorr is mafia, and Erandorr votes for annul, that should have no impact on whether or not the case against annul is valid, because Erandorr isn't annul, they're seperate people. Toad could be wrong about Erandorr, I could be wrong about annul, and Erandorr could be bussing annul. You cannot read anything about whether or not the annul wagon is valid based on who is on it. However, while the fact Erandorr votes for annul says nothing about annul, it does say a lot about Erandorr, because... Erandorr is Erandorr. I don't get what's complicated about this. First of all, you just said it. Even if you're right and annul is mafia there's no new read on erandorr. The guy voted for annul after something like 4 votes were on him after an incredible fast time? If you're right this could be a bus and this gives me 0 information about erandorr. How am I supposed to to gauge erandorrs alignment based on the flip? This is incredible wifom to the max. Erandorr could be a townie sheeping you if annul is red. (or he came to the same conclusion without telling us) Erandorr could be a townie sheeping you if annul is green. (or he came to the same conclusion without telling us) Erandorr could be a mafia bussing annul if annul is red. Erandorr could be a mafia getting a green-lynch if annul is green.
That's when you apply the "it's not what people do, but how they do it, that should be looked at" rule.
If you're town, please come back and re-read this entire thing because you're being so wrong and bad at the moment that if you somehow justify your arguments to yourself, you will never improve.
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EPT
