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On December 08 2011 09:36 Radfield wrote:
Solid Town
Palmar
vaderseven
Zephirdd
Toadesstern
Hyshes
Maybe Town
Truthbringer
Visceraeyes
Annul
Lanaia?
Risen?
Prob Scum
kingjames01?
Erandorr
Sandro?
prplhz?
Drazerk?
Changed it to what I think is true. What's in <b> is what I changed. I also deleted some people from the list because I have no idea what to think about them yet. The biggest difference are our thoughts on hyshes I guess.
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United States3910 Posts
SIGH
##Unvote
##Vote Prplhz
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Okay.
The reason why Palmar isn't getting lynched today is because he is town.
THE REASON HE IS TOWN, is because there's nothing pointing to him being scum. The cases I've seen so far has been about Palmar being useless when he was answering a question during the first hours of day1. When the hell has anybody been useless then? Then there's the whole fake dayvig claim, but he had a good lead and then he lied to investigate it further. This was very risky but I don't see in any way what motivation a scum could have for drawing so much attention to himself. His role also doesn't say anything about his alignment in a closed setup like this.
VisceraEyes' case was pretty bad and overall I have a townie feeling about Palmar because he has mostly the same reads as I do and a practical in-your-face approach that gives me townie vibes.
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On December 08 2011 09:51 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:36 Radfield wrote:
Solid Town
Palmar
vaderseven
Zephirdd
Toadesstern
Hyshes
Maybe Town
Truthbringer
Visceraeyes
Annul
Lanaia?
Risen?
Prob Scum
kingjames01?
Erandorr
Sandro?
prplhz?
Drazerk?
Changed it to what I think is true. What's in <b> is what I changed. I also deleted some people from the list because I have no idea what to think about them yet. The biggest difference are our thoughts on hyshes I guess.
Oh btw, I obviously missed Radfield in the solid town section as I figured he put himself as town as well :p
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United States3910 Posts
prplz you didnt read my post like 2 pages back?
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Yea, I don't agree with it.
Saying that he think syllogism acted differently towards him isn't damning at all. I found the post a bit weird too but I already stated why.
His random lynch is something he suggested in Mini Mafia X as town too.
vaderseven actually did post his notes. It was a lead and Palmar followed through with it, instead we could have been sitting there with no notes and the thread was very stale at the point. This is WIFOMy but would scum Palmar fake claim dayvig just to get some notes from a guy he would know had notes? Seems very unnecessary.
Palmar's case on Hier wasn't too great I give you that, but syllogism proposed it too and he was definitely town. Palmar hasn't tried to push any of the burden of the mislynch onto syllogism, instead he took active part in the lynch. Not scummy.
He denounces the bandwagon on him as pretty bad based on the fact that the most experienced player on it was Drazerk. No offense to Drazerk, I have been there where you had had enough of Palmar's sometimes rather annoying antics, but it was a bad wagon. You also thought so yourself.
On December 06 2011 06:39 redFF wrote:
GODDAMN THIS PALMAR WAGON IS BAD
I don't see the anonymous vote as a scummy ability, this is a closed setup and most speculation about roles is pretty useless. I think a lot of people agreed with me on that already. Also, he willingly told everybody about his ability quite some time before the bandwagon on him picked up too much speed, something I don't see a scum motivation for.
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United States3910 Posts
he didn't take active part in the lynch he just sheeped syllo
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I feel slightly uncomfortable when Radfield's list of "probably" town
Palmar
vaderseven
Zephirdd
Toadesstern
Includes both the players that caused/are causing a ruckus on the thread, the completely inconsistent and useless town that can't even create a decent case without having his argument blown away by one sentence, and the player that has yet to provide any scum tell other than Erandorr(which, by the way, feels scummy to me, but a feeling isn't anything when you can't freaking argue properly against it)
Then his "maybe" town is
Drazerk
Truthbringer
Visceraeyes
Annul
RedFF
Lanaia?
Risen?
Refallen?
Which are basically only the null players in the game. I don't have anything wrong with this list, but why am I over it, I have no idea.
His prob scum list:
kingjames01
Erandorr
Sandro?
Hyshes?
prplhz?
Erandorr, the one Toadesstern made a case of; kingjames, the one that made a case of Radfield(when many people had already said he was weird, but nobody had the guts to actually go that far). Then a bunch of interrogation marks over Sandro, who if anything should NOT have an interrogation mark(not based on his meta from last game at least), hyshes who... did nothing the whole game(seriously where is him), and prplhz who is surprisingly much more useful than usual(see Steamship Liquidia).
Then, we get Toadesstern's list where he puts Hyshes out of anybody else as "probably" town, and Drazerk as scum.
There is something off about these two. What about other players? Why bother mentioning Lanaia or Refallen or Hyshes, but not Corrupt(where is he btw?), Mattchew(who I think is town) or Jackal58(who has been away due to RL stuff)? Why are they so... synchronized?
Yet both have a few valid points, but as much as prplhz and Erandorr may feel off, their play hasn't ringed me anything wrong. In fact, purpleHaze seems much more town oriented than the other game I played with him. Erandorr just looks like someone who is busy with something else(I think Palmar mentioned he is playing Dota2? he also said he was a bit sick), and seems just a null tell at best, not scum.
Am I paranoid here? They don't seem weird, they don't seem anti-town, yet I have this feeling telling me there is something wrong. Am I the only one on this?
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EBWOP
and I just realized I changed my feelings towards Erandorr mid-post. So I'll clarify.
He feels scum as much as he doesn't feel scum. 50/50, null tell. As much as he could be scum, he could be busy/sick/whatever. I know people will call me out over that in the future, so I'll just leave this here.
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Jesus poop. I can't stay connected for more than 30 seconds at a time. I'll be back after 10 when I can get a stable internet connection. 
And this is gonna take 50 try agains before it posts.
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On December 08 2011 11:12 Zephirdd wrote:I feel slightly uncomfortable when Radfield's list of "probably" town Includes both the players that caused/are causing a ruckus on the thread, the completely inconsistent and useless town that can't even create a decent case without having his argument blown away by one sentence, and the player that has yet to provide any scum tell other than Erandorr(which, by the way, feels scummy to me, but a feeling isn't anything when you can't freaking argue properly against it) Then his "maybe" town is Which are basically only the null players in the game. I don't have anything wrong with this list, but why am I over it, I have no idea. His prob scum list: Erandorr, the one Toadesstern made a case of; kingjames, the one that made a case of Radfield(when many people had already said he was weird, but nobody had the guts to actually go that far). Then a bunch of interrogation marks over Sandro, who if anything should NOT have an interrogation mark(not based on his meta from last game at least), hyshes who... did nothing the whole game(seriously where is him), and prplhz who is surprisingly much more useful than usual(see Steamship Liquidia). Then, we get Toadesstern's list where he puts Hyshes out of anybody else as "probably" town, and Drazerk as scum. There is something off about these two. What about other players? Why bother mentioning Lanaia or Refallen or Hyshes, but not Corrupt(where is he btw?), Mattchew(who I think is town) or Jackal58(who has been away due to RL stuff)? Why are they so... synchronized? Yet both have a few valid points, but as much as prplhz and Erandorr may feel off, their play hasn't ringed me anything wrong. In fact, purpleHaze seems much more town oriented than the other game I played with him. Erandorr just looks like someone who is busy with something else(I think Palmar mentioned he is playing Dota2? he also said he was a bit sick), and seems just a null tell at best, not scum. Am I paranoid here? They don't seem weird, they don't seem anti-town, yet I have this feeling telling me there is something wrong. Am I the only one on this?
I'll just explain my feelings on hyshes and drazerk as those seem to be weird for you. I think everything else is pretty self-explanatory? If it's not please feel free to ask specifically about who you want an explanation.
Hyshes:
I already explained my read on hyshes a lot. Take a look at my filter, it's not something that came up out of nowhere. I've stated multiple times that I think hyshes is town. He's the only one is this game I have some games I played with him. Actually this is my 4th game and 3 of them I played with hyshes. So far everything that looked weird to most people is EXACTLY what he did the last 2 games and he was town those 2 games. I think the chances of him being mafia just tiny, unbelievably tiny to be honest.
Drazerk:
I'm just still not believing a word he said about his claim. If annuls claim is right that means we got 2 different types of medics in this game:
1) a super-medic that HAS TO claim he's medic but is therefore Roleblock immune
2) a normal medic or at least a medic that does NOT have to claim
I find that to be unbelievable. I think Incog would give us 2 medics of the same type but surely not 2 different types of medics. What would be the reason behind that? Drazerk claimed he protected V7 n1 so there is no way he was the medic that protected annul.
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EBWOP: Oh and about the part asking why we're so synchronised about who we do mention and who's a no-mention. I figured it's obvious I only took his list and changed it according to how I see it. So yes I only got people on the list that he got as well unless I am pretty sure about what I think about someone to add him.
To make it short: I was lazy, saw that list and imo it had flaws (like hyshes and drazerk) so I changed it according to what I think is right. It's not something I came up with. If you want me to do a list of my own I'm happy to do so tomorrow. I bet that won't overlap with the one rad did because I won't just copy & past & edit it.
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Yaya hyshes meta feels town, Drazerk looks scum, my point aren't these. My point is that something feels off about you and Radfield. I can't say what it is, because I don't know. I won't make a case on you and him, I just want to know if somebody else has this... feeling.
Also, since this medic theory thing is buzzing everyone.
This is not a normal game
I thought we had that clarified already. We have a "normal" JOAT(he is a joat, right?), we have a Town Floridian with anonymous votes, we have 6 mafia out of 25 players and possibly a third party. Assuming normal setups on this game is wrong.
A roleblock immune medic that has to claim night 1(aka. a super medic) makes it even less normal. If you believe Drazerk's claim is right, then it is perfectly fine to believe that annul was indeed protected by a second medic, a normal medic(or even possibly a medic with limitations, say, one protection per two nights makes sense). We also have a JOAT who possibly can one-shot protect, which makes it about three medics when there is at least three KP on night 1. Nobody else claimed being protected, but we can't assume there may be more KP for the subsequent nights.
This game is a closed setup, and we can't just assume that normal roles will fit it. And this is coming from the guy who raged hard over Palmar claiming a scum role, but that was much more anger at the time than logical thinking.
Assuming someone is wrong/lying because you think the setup works in a way is wrong, because this is a closed setup and there is no way you can know what is this setup.
I find it odd that mafia didn't kill Drazerk when he claimed the medic thing. Of course there is the possibility of him being bulletproof, but why wouldn't they attack something as powerful as a super-medic? Oh well, now I got to useless WIFOM and speculation.
Again, I ask anybody to read my previous post and answer me: am I alone on this craziness or is there anybody else?
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I am not assuming normal setups. I am assuming incog won't put 2 different variations of the same role in this game. That's my point. Therefore I'm calling drazerk a liar and therefore he's slighty on the scummy side for me (that's why he got a '?' on my list).
I'm saying he's either a VT or VET trying to catch bullets or a mafia that has something else on his mind like being scared or whatever. I'm not going to push for him yet I'm just calling him a liar yet.
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anyways I'm off to bed, will catch up tomorrow and respond to anything about that matter.
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@Zephirdd
You're not off about Radfield's list, it is weird because he is likely scum and you're very likely town.
You're not wrong about how very specific speculation about setup/roles can't be effectively relied upon in a closed setup.
I don't think it is likely that Drazerk is scum, we can only speculate about why scum did not kill him. My theory is that they wanted to isolate Palmar and lynch him today so they took away two of his biggest supporters.
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United States3910 Posts
if it's numbered it's a normal game
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United States3910 Posts
An anonymous vote is such a fucking scummy ability, you can put it anywhere and nobody will be any wiser, but instead palmar claimed it. He's doing this in a way to make him seem pro-town by claiming a scummy role in a townie way. But instead of putting his extra vote to good use and using it to pressure people day 1(which he has a fucking excellent track record as as town), he put it on fucking hier, a wagon that sprang up like 6 hours before day end.
I applaud the ballsiness of the claim palmar, but it isn't enough. you're mafia.
what are peoples thoughts on this?
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tbh him putting the vote on hier wasn't bad, especially when you said yourself how much we needed a lynch. I still believe Hier's lynch wasn't bad.
He claimed the role in a townie sense, and now we know exactly what the anon vote is. Speculating if he did it because he was town or if he did it as scum to make us think he is town is useless speculation; I'd say it's WIFOM but there isn't really a complete circle on this. Either way, for now I'll assume he did that because he is town.
Actually there is a complete WIFOM circle:
as Town, claim it to make people know you're town.->
as Scum, claim it to make people think you're town.->
as Town, DON'T claim it to not let people think you're scum.->
as Scum, don't claim it in because fuck no->
as Town, claim[...]
So yeah, no point in speculating that. I don't know how to avoid these WIFOM circles, so I'll just assume that Palmar is town for the time being.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'm going to tell you right now that you are not alone Zephridd  There are legions of townies who 'get a bad feeling' about me between the end of day one and end of day two when I am town. It honestly happens every single game to me. Someone should figure out why and tell me so I can fix it
You are on the Solid Town list for a very specific reason. I'm not going to go into it deeper than that.
All the other people missing from those three lists are pretty null. I either haven't relooked over them, they are very inactive, or I simply don't have a great read. I will also add that hyshes probably doesn't belong on my prob scum list, he is much more null at this point.
Also keep in mind that the Drazerk claim of a roleblock immune medic who has to claim night 1 is a joke. It's either a joke by Incog, or a joke by Drazerk. In LOTR Drazerk claimed medic during Day 2 for no apparent reason and actually managed to stay alive until the end of the game, and I think he even made a save.
On December 08 2011 11:54 prplhz wrote:
@Zephirdd
You're not off about Radfield's list, it is weird because he is likely scum and you're very likely town.
You're not wrong about how very specific speculation about setup/roles can't be effectively relied upon in a closed setup.
I don't think it is likely that Drazerk is scum, we can only speculate about why scum did not kill him. My theory is that they wanted to isolate Palmar and lynch him today so they took away two of his biggest supporters.
If you see a problem with my list then let me hear it. Don't just snipe.
I hope you realize I am also one of strongest voices in the thread against a Palmar lynch? Problem is I don't like annul either, and I don't have a good fallback target since I'm leaning more and more town on you.
I will say this, I'm willing to lynch sandro if he doesn't start being more useful. He has almost zero contribution at this point, when he should be starting to pinpoint scum.
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EPT
